Crestfallen_KH Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I'm new to dating again after my divorce and, after a brief period of desiring male contact, I'm really ready to take things slow and get to know a guy better before getting intimate. I had date with a guy that went well. I wasn't really feeling any chemistry, but we had enough things in common and a good enough time that I felt it was worth hanging out again. Toward the end of that night he got a little "handsy" (e.g., rubbing my back and touching my shoulder, giving me a hug, etc.) but nothing too aggressive or creepy. I asked him out to the movies and dinner for our second date. When he met me at the restaurant, he gave me a big hug. After we ate, we left and as he was walking me to my car, he went in for another hug, and then a kiss. I was a little startled, and gave him a quick peck but quickly pulled away. Throughout the rest of the night, he kept going in for a kiss, multiple times. I admit, I should have put up my hand and said "I appreciate your affection, but I'm not sure how I feel about you yet and am not quite ready for this" but I didn't. I responded with quick, limp kisses thinking he'd take the hint (like an idiot) with quick pull aways and no eye contact. He didn't take the hint, though, and when he walked me to my car after the flick, he tried to go for a longer, deeper kiss and I again refused and pulled away. Tonight, he was online and we chatted for a bit. When I said goobye, he said "What, no kiss?" I made a lame joke about having eaten garlic for dinner and he laughed and said he could take it. I just said g'night and he logged. As dumb as it sounds, I'm frustrated that he keeps wanting physical contact and that the message doesn't seem to be getting through. I had no more chemistry with him after the second date and don't think I will. The thought of kissing him is very unpleasant to me. He's very attractive, cultured, and smart, but I'm not feeling anything. And, the more he keeps trying to get me to kiss him, the more I keep thinking he just wants to get laid, which makes me want to even forget about moving forward with any type of friendship. Ideally, I'd like to say "Listen, I really enjoy spending time with you and I like you very much, but it's just too soon for me to say whether I feel any chemistry with you, and I'd rather we hold off on the affection and just be friends for now." Do you think that makes sense? I guess if it ticks him off, well, then I know what he was after, right?
forrest Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Throughout the rest of the night, he kept going in for a kiss, multiple times. I admit, I should have put up my hand and said "I appreciate your affection, but I'm not sure how I feel about you yet and am not quite ready for this" but I didn't. I responded with quick, limp kisses thinking he'd take the hint (like an idiot) with quick pull aways and no eye contact. He didn't take the hint, though, and when he walked me to my car after the flick, he tried to go for a longer, deeper kiss and I again refused and pulled away. Ideally, I'd like to say "Listen, I really enjoy spending time with you and I like you very much, but it's just too soon for me to say whether I feel any chemistry with you, and I'd rather we hold off on the affection and just be friends for now." Do you think that makes sense? I guess if it ticks him off, well, then I know what he was after, right? So why didnt you? From his perspective, you are playing hard to get. Dont hint, just do it if it doesnt work the first or second time. Dont expect guys to read your mind, because many wont.
JustinWolf Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 You ought to tell him what you just wrote there. He deserves to know and he will get the message.
carhill Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 OP, guys don't date you to be your friend Join a club or volunteer if you want guy friends. I made a lot of female friends cycling (in a club); I didn't date them. The guy is expressing sexual interest in you. It's what men do when they date. I offended plenty of women by not doing that during my single years. Can't remember any which were flattered by my lack of physical attention
LakesideDream Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I'm new to dating again after my divorce and, after a brief period of desiring male contact, I'm really ready to take things slow and get to know a guy better before getting intimate. I had date with a guy that went well. I wasn't really feeling any chemistry, but we had enough things in common and a good enough time that I felt it was worth hanging out again. Toward the end of that night he got a little "handsy" (e.g., rubbing my back and touching my shoulder, giving me a hug, etc.) but nothing too aggressive or creepy. I asked him out to the movies and dinner for our second date. When he met me at the restaurant, he gave me a big hug. After we ate, we left and as he was walking me to my car, he went in for another hug, and then a kiss. I was a little startled, and gave him a quick peck but quickly pulled away. Throughout the rest of the night, he kept going in for a kiss, multiple times. I admit, I should have put up my hand and said "I appreciate your affection, but I'm not sure how I feel about you yet and am not quite ready for this" but I didn't. I responded with quick, limp kisses thinking he'd take the hint (like an idiot) with quick pull aways and no eye contact. He didn't take the hint, though, and when he walked me to my car after the flick, he tried to go for a longer, deeper kiss and I again refused and pulled away. Tonight, he was online and we chatted for a bit. When I said goobye, he said "What, no kiss?" I made a lame joke about having eaten garlic for dinner and he laughed and said he could take it. I just said g'night and he logged. As dumb as it sounds, I'm frustrated that he keeps wanting physical contact and that the message doesn't seem to be getting through. I had no more chemistry with him after the second date and don't think I will. The thought of kissing him is very unpleasant to me. He's very attractive, cultured, and smart, but I'm not feeling anything. And, the more he keeps trying to get me to kiss him, the more I keep thinking he just wants to get laid, which makes me want to even forget about moving forward with any type of friendship. Ideally, I'd like to say "Listen, I really enjoy spending time with you and I like you very much, but it's just too soon for me to say whether I feel any chemistry with you, and I'd rather we hold off on the affection and just be friends for now." Do you think that makes sense? I guess if it ticks him off, well, then I know what he was after, right? I don't get it Crestfallen. No chemistry... you don't think there ever will be.... yet you choose to ask him out to a movie.. where he gets "handy" by touching your shoulder and back... wanting to kiss you. You shut him down... then he makes a joke online about a kiss. Why don't you do yourself.. and this poor shlub who is wasting his time on you a favor. Tell him you feel no chemistry and that you don't feel you ever will and that you just want to be "friends". I promise you he will stop "bothering" you. Isnt romance what dating is about? Carhill is right, join a social club if you want to make male friends without romance. Don't "date" men you have no chemistry with. I personally find nothing unusual in this guys behavior.
Trimmer Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 As dumb as it sounds, I'm frustrated that he keeps wanting physical contact and that the message doesn't seem to be getting through. But you are specifically avoiding sending him a message, and then getting frustrated when he doesn't interpret the lack of a message in the way you want him to. Ideally, I'd like to say "Listen, I really enjoy spending time with you and I like you very much, but it's just too soon for me to say whether I feel any chemistry with you, and I'd rather we hold off on the affection and just be friends for now." Do you think that makes sense? I guess if it ticks him off, well, then I know what he was after, right? Now that would be sending a message. Expecting someone to read your mind is doomed to fail. But even with that, I tend to agree with the others here, and I still think you're not being completely honest with him. If you feel no chemistry at all, and even the thought of kissing him is "very unpleasant" then is it really being honest to tell him "...it's just too soon for me to say whether I feel any chemistry with you..."? It sounds like you're still avoiding reality here. Do him a favor...
nicki Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Is it that you don't feel any natural chemistry, or is his pushy behavior killing any budding chemistry? I like to take things slowly, too. I won't usually kiss a guy until about the third date. I consider it to be a very intimate thing, and I want to feel an undeniable attraction and desire first. Of course, I let guys know this during the first date so they don't think it is them. And I let them know they are "in the game" by complimenting them and touching their arm, smiling, etc. But to build that initial attraction to the level of wanting to kiss a guy, I need a bit of space. If the guy is too pushy too soon, it kills it for me because it doesn't have time to develop on it's own before I shut it down due to fear the guy is either selfish or only interested in getting laid. I want a guy to consider my feelings, not only his own interests. I'd be careful about saying the "friends" thing, unless you know there is zero chemistry. Maybe simply tell him what you yourself said in your post. Share your thoughts and feelings with him so he will know what to do. If he's a good guy and knows he's in the game, he'll stick around and give you a bit of space to let physical and emotional intimacy build. In my experience, most guys simply want to know that you can see yourself someday ripping their clothes off. They'll wait, especially if you tell them that you know once you kiss a man if you will sleep with him. That it's a very short walk for you! Works for me because it's true!
Author Crestfallen_KH Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 I'm not out there dating to make friends. I'm dating to hopefully find a guy to start a relationship with. I don't think you have to experience chemistry on the first date, which is why I asked him out on a second date quite frankly. I'm not going to feel bad about that. I met him online and sometimes it can take a few dates to feel some attraction. *shrug* I had hoped that I would start to feel something or get an inkling of how I feel, and now I did - I don't think I'm going to feel anything. So yes, I'll tell him what I wrote and even tell him I'm skeptical of feeling anything more. No need to accuse me of being underhanded or stringing him along. Jeez, it's been two dates. It's not like I've lied to this guy and crushed his very soul.
carhill Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 IMO, if you don't sense something "extra" when in close proximity to him, even at this early stage, I wouldn't bother. When I look back on the small number of women I've been truly attracted to, there was always something at the beginning, even if just a "hmm, that's different". It developed into something more over time, but it was there. A heterosexual man, even one who moves slowly in romance, is looking for an intimate relationship and will signal that early on if he feels "it". You apparently ran into someone who doesn't understand the "how", or is just looking for sex. If he otherwise has attributes which make him dateable, give him one more shot. If you don't see an upside here, cut your losses. Don't even explain it to him.
Author Crestfallen_KH Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 Is it that you don't feel any natural chemistry, or is his pushy behavior killing any budding chemistry? Yes, nicki, I think this was part of it. He is an attractive, smart guy but we were only 30 minutes into our second date when he started wanting to kiss me all the time. I admit, I was partly flattered, but I was also taken off guard. I don't think it's unreasonable for a guy to kiss you, but he just started wanting to kiss me ALL the time, and as the night wore on, it started to get frustrating. I absolutely made a mistake by not saying anything, I admit that. Also, on his online profile he wrote that he's looking for "hang out." I asked him what that meant and he said "Anything goes!" That made me a little uncomfortable but if "anything goes" he shouldn't get too upset about being friends.
Author Crestfallen_KH Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 Thanks, carhill. I've actually had two guys in my life where attraction came later. At first, I only viewed them as friends. It wasn't until later (3 weeks in one instance, almost 2 years in the other) where something clicked and I started wanting to rip their clothes off. I'll definitely tell him how I feel and see what he says.
tanbark813 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I don't get it Crestfallen. No chemistry... you don't think there ever will be.... yet you choose to ask him out to a movie.. where he gets "handy" by touching your shoulder and back... wanting to kiss you. You shut him down... then he makes a joke online about a kiss. Why don't you do yourself.. and this poor shlub who is wasting his time on you a favor. Tell him you feel no chemistry and that you don't feel you ever will and that you just want to be "friends". I promise you he will stop "bothering" you. Isnt romance what dating is about? Carhill is right, join a social club if you want to make male friends without romance. Don't "date" men you have no chemistry with. I personally find nothing unusual in this guys behavior. Totally agree. If you're not feeling the guy you're just wasting both of your guys' time.
Author Crestfallen_KH Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 Totally agree. If you're not feeling the guy you're just wasting both of your guys' time. Really? I'm expected to know if I'm feeling a guy within two dates? Fascinating. So much I don't know, apparently.
tanbark813 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Really? I'm expected to know if I'm feeling a guy within two dates? Well if you don't then that says something right there. I've never gone out with someone twice who I didn't want to kiss. Why bother? That seems odd to me.
carhill Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I'll definitely tell him how I feel and see what he says. I won't speak for him, but I know, if I heard what you're saying here, I'd say "friend zone" to myself and make myself scarce. Definitely not a reflection on you (your feelings are valid), but just sharing how a man perceives it. I wasted a goodly portion of my life on a couple of dry holes (oil business euphemism), one of whom I'm married to, and won't be doing that again any time soon
xpaperxcutx Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Why do you have to kiss a guy on the first? I find that slightly repulsive. And Crestfallen I think you just weren't clear in your objections to his kisses that's why he repeatedly forced himself on you. Also you did ask him out on the second, and he misinterpreted as interest on your part. You didn't do anything wrong, just need to be more strict when it comes to a guy invading your personal space.
tanbark813 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 that's why he repeatedly forced himself on you. Since when did we get a bunch of nuns on LS? He didn't "force himself" on her. He tried to kiss her. I hate to break it to you, ladies, but guys don't go out with women they don't want to kiss.
carhill Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 OK, since I'm one of the more conservative LS'ers, I'll tell you how I do things... If I'm out on a date with a woman I know little about personally, even if we know each other casually, I am interested in her personal side and show that (by being inquisitive and remembering things she says). If I sense something "different" about her and I perceive that she is enjoying my company, at the end of the date I'll give her a hug, kiss her on the cheek, look her in the eyes and tell her I enjoyed the XXX (whatever the date was) and would love to see her again. Then, I turn and go. My actions matched my words and then she can digest her own perception of the date. If she's distant or doesn't show interest in me, no hug, no kiss, no expressions of a future. I don't need any more projects
xpaperxcutx Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Since when did we get a bunch of nuns on LS? He didn't "force himself" on her. He tried to kiss her. I hate to break it to you, ladies, but guys don't go out with women they don't want to kiss. And normally those same same guys know when the girl doesn't want to be kissed.
Author Crestfallen_KH Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 I'm not in any way offended that he wanted to kiss me - I was just taken aback about the timing. And, I was frustrated that he kept moving in to kiss me, but if I didn't say anything, it's my own fault. I'll tell him I'm not feeling anything beyond friendship for him right now. If he bails, he bails, that's certainly his right. I won't be offended and I hope he won't either. If he is, well he was already too invested in the potential of a relationship after two dates anyway and I made it clear in my profile (and stated to him) that I'm not looking for anything serious right now.
tanbark813 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 And normally those same same guys know when the girl doesn't want to be kissed. Yes, because she was so straightforward with the guy.
carhill Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 OK, what are you looking for? IMO, better to present a positive viewpoint than negative... Be specific. Men like directness and specificity. Do you want a guy to hang out with and not share the burden of unrequited sexual tension? There are those (I was one for many years). Do you want casual sex with no strings? OK, good. Not my style, but I doubt I'd be missed What I'm getting at here is why do you want some male attention? What are you looking for that you can't get from your family, girlfriends or platonic male friends? What I think is you want him to want you and give you attention and affection on your terms with little thought or consideration to his needs. Nice for you but unhealthy for him. Happy to be wrong but many years of being a doormat have given me some perspective, based on my mistakes. Again, examine what you want. What does "not looking for anything serious" mean, specifically? IMO, this perspective will apply to any man you meet, not just this one, as long as you maintain it. Only you can change your perspective. There is no right or wrong here. It's just how things are. Hope it works out
Phateless Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 KH - don't worry about it. You're a pretty girl and they try. When you find the right one, he'll go about it in such a way that you're never feeling defensive. When I'm on a date with a girl, I always make sure to pull back BEFORE it becomes too much, because I want to be respectful.
Author Crestfallen_KH Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 What I think is you want him to want you and give you attention and affection on your terms with little thought or consideration to his needs. Nice for you but unhealthy for him. Happy to be wrong but many years of being a doormat have given me some perspective, based on my mistakes. OMG, absolutely NOT! Ugh, it disgusts me to even read that! I AM going to be specific. I'm not interested in playing games and I will be honest with him. I will tell him that I have enjoyed chatting with him, he's a cool, funny, attractive guy, but I don't feel anything for him beyond friendship. I will tell him that I don't think I will EVER feel anything for him beyond friendship. I will tell him that I can understand if that deal isn't attractive to him, and if he doesn't want to just be friends, he's welcome to move on and I wish him the best. It's amazing what some people assume about a complete stranger. I've already admitted that I made a mistake by kissing him and I absolutely expect he's going to be confused because, no, he can't read my mind. I came here looking for advice in an attempt to remedy that. I made a mistake; that doesn't mean I'm some emotionally desolate woman looking for a guy to follow me around like a puppy to boost my ego at the expense of his own emotional health. Trust me, if you knew me at all, you'd know I'm the girl that, until she got married, was the gal guys "strung along." I'm not about to turn around and become that person. I didn't realize the rest of the world expected me to know how I felt about a possible relationship with a guy (who has also stated he isn't looking for a relationship right now) within two dates. Regardless of whether or not I agree with that assessment, I will absolutely be honest with him because I completely believe in being forthcoming and I want him to make the best decision for him.
Author Crestfallen_KH Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 KH - don't worry about it. You're a pretty girl and they try. When you find the right one, he'll go about it in such a way that you're never feeling defensive. When I'm on a date with a girl, I always make sure to pull back BEFORE it becomes too much, because I want to be respectful. Thank you. My last boyfriend actually kissed me on the first date. At first I was startled, but that quickly went away and I found myself kissing him back. In that instance, the chemistry was much more immediate and I was evidently ready for it.
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