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[Justanotherschmuck]

Thanks for your comments trimmer.

 

Beleive me, you are NOT the only one who questions my stance.

 

But, it remains my stance, and I have no moral problems with it.

 

I'm NOT dumping my responsiblities to MY kids. They just won't include ANYTHING to do with my wife. Why? Because I was put in a position in my life WITHOUT my say. SHE did this and I had nothing to say about it.

 

My kids can LIVE with me.

I will pay for ANYTHING they need.

I will ALWAYS be available for my grandkids, if any come.

If they need me for any reason (without my wife), boom I'm there.

 

Special occasions where my wife will be are few and far between. The rest of the days I'm there. Plus, whats the big deal with my kids wedding days? They aren't all they are cracked up to be anyways, as most of us here have found out. Just a day of pretty sayings and a whole bunch of crossed fingers. I've seen my LAST wedding, by the way.

 

I WILL NOT EVER, EVER, EVER be involved in ANYTHING that involves my WIFE and her future life. Shes hurt me enough. She wants me out of her life, fine. But, I refuse to be PULLED BACK when ever it is STYLISH or APPROPRIATE for the "father" to be present. I could give a RATZ AZZ what other people think. SHE decided to destroy this family. Now, I have NO FAMILY, just my kids. If I had WANTED only kids, I could have had them, without a wife, ANYTIME I wanted.

 

She's created this scenerio. I'm where she FORCED me to be. I'll be damned if she influences ANYTHING I do anymore. If the kids were so damned important, she wouldn't have done this. So SHE does the selfish thing and then tells ME, I gotta be somewhere for THE KIDS!?!?!!?

 

My kids know I'm there for them, just not when their mother is around. I'll throw ANOTHER wedding for grad party for them, its FINE by me.

 

My wife wanted me gone. My kids were against it, her family was against it, my family was against it, her beloved church was against it. ONly her cheerleading friends were for it....so let her invite THEM.

 

If you or anyone else thinks this is selfish, so be it. I would have done ANYTHING to try and keep this marriage, now I will do ANYTHING to keep my sanity. ANd that includes making sure SHE NEVER EVER comes into my life again. This is how horrible I think what she did to me, my kids and my life is...(I'm not supposed to end a sentance with is, huh?)

 

But, anyways, thanks for the post, Trimmer.

[PWSX3]

Hey justanothershmuck,

I feel sorry you have so much pain & hurt. I understand it is not something you have asked for, none of us did but I would like to suggest a couple things....

 

I took a class called Divorce Care from a local church, not sure if you are a religious person but it was very helpful for me, in fact I'm taking it again now just because their is so much good information to learn if you are welling.

 

One thing I learned; you never say never, because we don't know what the future holds for us. Our hearts change, our situations change.

 

The one big thing they talk about in DC class is; you have to forgive the other person for what they did. That doesn't mean you have to ask them for forgiveness but you do have to forgive them in your own heart in order for you to move forward.

 

I've have been separated for 7 months & it has taken a while to get past some of the anger I had towards the stbxw, but it needs to be done. I feel once you have done this & you work HARD on yourself that things start to look different for you, you see things differently.

 

We have only one child between us & he is 19 so we don't have much communication. I do expect to see her at graduation & I will say hi to her but that doesn't mean I have to be buddies with her. I guess maybe "friend" isn't really the correct word, but just being friendly to her, don't need to be a jerk but polite just like you would to a any other person that is an acquaintance to you.

 

I was welling to do anything for my marriage at first, but everyone said; don't chase her, don't plead or cry, which of coarse we all do, so after she left I started taking classes at a local church, got into a small men's group (it was amazing how many guys their had been thru a divorce) & they are their to support you, give you good suggestions & comfort. Started going to a counselor that has really helped me understand how my growing up had so much to do with who I am today. Joined a couple winter activities at the church (snow shoeing) and met some new people, started going out and meeting more new people.....

 

All this was helping me to learn who I was, what part I had in the marriage. With counseling I learned that their are things I would like to see in a partner someday & so I keep that list available for the future.

 

Because of this work I'm doing for myself I am realizing that I don't want to get back with the stbxw if she asked, I don't feel that the work on her part has been enough to answer those questions on my list.

 

It is always best to try & take the high road, never stoop down to their level, the kids will appreciate that down the road.

 

I know for me I see the stbxw in a different light now then I used too, I'm more at piece with myself when I have to confront her & I really don't think she likes it. She is seeing a new person & she is wondering what it's all about but for now I don't want to share with her, she was the one that gave up. Sure I was at fault in my part in the marriage but I didn't quit & to me that is the bottom line she quit!!!!

 

I did hear something I thought was interesting on the radio the other day. Steve Arterburn said; you will always be part of each other when you have kids, you just get all the bad from your spouse now & none of the good times anymore.

 

Don't know if any of this helped, I guess I just rambled a lot.

[Justanotherschmuck]

Hey justanothershmuck,

I feel sorry you have so much pain & hurt. I understand it is not something you have asked for, none of us did but I would like to suggest a couple things....

 

I took a class called Divorce Care from a local church, not sure if you are a religious person but it was very helpful for me, in fact I'm taking it again now just because their is so much good information to learn if you are welling.

 

One thing I learned; you never say never, because we don't know what the future holds for us. Our hearts change, our situations change.

 

The one big thing they talk about in DC class is; you have to forgive the other person for what they did. That doesn't mean you have to ask them for forgiveness but you do have to forgive them in your own heart in order for you to move forward.

 

I've have been separated for 7 months & it has taken a while to get past some of the anger I had towards the stbxw, but it needs to be done. I feel once you have done this & you work HARD on yourself that things start to look different for you, you see things differently.

 

We have only one child between us & he is 19 so we don't have much communication. I do expect to see her at graduation & I will say hi to her but that doesn't mean I have to be buddies with her. I guess maybe "friend" isn't really the correct word, but just being friendly to her, don't need to be a jerk but polite just like you would to a any other person that is an acquaintance to you.

 

I was welling to do anything for my marriage at first, but everyone said; don't chase her, don't plead or cry, which of coarse we all do, so after she left I started taking classes at a local church, got into a small men's group (it was amazing how many guys their had been thru a divorce) & they are their to support you, give you good suggestions & comfort. Started going to a counselor that has really helped me understand how my growing up had so much to do with who I am today. Joined a couple winter activities at the church (snow shoeing) and met some new people, started going out and meeting more new people.....

 

All this was helping me to learn who I was, what part I had in the marriage. With counseling I learned that their are things I would like to see in a partner someday & so I keep that list available for the future.

 

Because of this work I'm doing for myself I am realizing that I don't want to get back with the stbxw if she asked, I don't feel that the work on her part has been enough to answer those questions on my list.

 

It is always best to try & take the high road, never stoop down to their level, the kids will appreciate that down the road.

 

I know for me I see the stbxw in a different light now then I used too, I'm more at piece with myself when I have to confront her & I really don't think she likes it. She is seeing a new person & she is wondering what it's all about but for now I don't want to share with her, she was the one that gave up. Sure I was at fault in my part in the marriage but I didn't quit & to me that is the bottom line she quit!!!!

 

I did hear something I thought was interesting on the radio the other day. Steve Arterburn said; you will always be part of each other when you have kids, you just get all the bad from your spouse now & none of the good times anymore.

 

Don't know if any of this helped, I guess I just rambled a lot.

 

Thanks PW

 

That wasn't ranting at all. It was a whole hell of a lot of surviving. I bolded the part that I must admit is pretty attractive. BUt, for me, unattainable.

My biggest confusion is as follow.

 

When you are married, EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, at home, in books, on the Net, at this forum and Marriage builders ALWAYS SAY how you have to treat your spouse like gold. How it is imperative that you REALIZE and believe and treat her like she is the most important person in your life, which, of couse she is because she is your spouse. You put your self second, you sacrifice for her, you rely on her. Now, if you are trying to be a good husband, this effort goes on for years. You see your spouse as the most important aspect of your life, IF you are trying to be the best you can be. Sure you screw up, all humans do dumb things, that why we are human. But you apoligize and try to make up for it. Her important things become yours, and hopefully vice versa. THEN, after all those years of trying, suceeding at times, failing at others, but ALWAYS TRYING, she decides to call it quits. QUITS. Can you read that?? QUITS. You are a piece of excriment if you quit on say....you teammates, your partner if you are a cop, your partner if you are a fireman, your self if you go to school. If you quit AT JUST ABOUT ANYTHING, you'll see people WHISPER as you walk by ,,,,,,,"Yeah, he or she's a quitter....blah....." But quit on a MARRIAGE, and you are a strong person for trying to find yourself. Hey, FIND THIS....... So, your spouse quits, the spouse you spend so much emotional efforts on and what is the advice? Buck up. Don't cry. Don't let her know \you miss her. Find HOBBYS. HOBBIES? Are you effin KIDDIN ME? Is drinking yourself stupid considered a HOBBY?

 

Its just not NORMAL to try so hard for so long, and then just pretend it wasn't that big of a deal!!!!!

 

I really like your advice. Your further along than I, so maybe, like you said, it will change. I doubt it. We've been TOTAL strangers for about close to two years, and I think she may have started a relationship elsewhere. I haven't found a stitch of evidence yet, but she's starting to go out, without one on the kids, which she's never done before. Somehow the thought of an affair, in a crazy way, makes me feel LESS guilty about how I failed in this thing.

 

I put my heart and soul into those VOWS. I always thought of my relationship as my safe ship in the harbor, where I was free to be myself. I guess she didn't like the real me. I was by no means faultless, but deserving a divorce? Please. Thats the biggest joke I have ever, ever heard. But after being on some forums for close to two years, I know I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE. There are some selfish, self centered, entitled filty tramps out there, as well as some insecure, chase the lastest skirt, he men.

 

I was just a regular guy. Maybe I deserved a kick in the ass now and then, but I worked my said ASS off for 30 years to try and make her feel secure, and now, its all coming around, but I'd say 10 years too late. Its funny I always thought biz success would make me happy because it would make HER happy. Plans never, ever work out, when its an affair of the heart, it seems.

 

But, thank you again for putting some honest thought into you reply. I will keep up with your story, wishing your continued success.

 

PS. One last thing. Don't you ever wonder if you being civil is taken by your ex to be a sign that (in HER mind) you've realized that the divorce is for the best? She did the right thing? " oh, hes fine with it, hes ALWAYS civil when we meet?" God I would hate that.

 

Its a HUGE thing for my wife to have others think that this divorce is happening because WE BOTH WANT IT. I GO OUT OF MY WAY to make sure NO ONE thinks this. I m afraid that my civility will be a sign of agreement. In this subject, I VERY MUCH CARE about what others think. I don't quit. Ever. Especially when I comes to a woman I promised EVERYTHING to. Do you see this occuring. Thanks.

[PWSX3]

PS. One last thing. Don't you ever wonder if you being civil is taken by your ex to be a sign that (in HER mind) you've realized that the divorce is for the best? She did the right thing? " oh, hes fine with it, hes ALWAYS civil when we meet?" God I would hate that.

 

Its a HUGE thing for my wife to have others think that this divorce is happening because WE BOTH WANT IT. I GO OUT OF MY WAY to make sure NO ONE thinks this. I m afraid that my civility will be a sign of agreement. In this subject, I VERY MUCH CARE about what others think. I don't quit. Ever. Especially when I comes to a woman I promised EVERYTHING to. Do you see this occuring. Thanks.

She knew I didn't want the divorce & knew I wouldn't agree to it so she is the one that filed & she has paid for all of the divorce paperwork.

 

When I go in front of the judge & he asked if I agree with the divorce I will tell him I had no choice that she was the one that wanted it but I don't want anyone in my life that is a quieter or that doesn't love me.

 

I will be glad when it is over so I can fill that part of my life with good things. It does take up your time & energy with negative thinking.....

 

Like I said; yes I did say until death do us part, but she also has a choice & just because she doesn't want the marriage & that changes what I can do, doesn't mean it can control me. I need to move on, their is nothing I can do about her choice.

 

It is tough, there is nothing good about divorce, but life will move on & it is up to you/me to decide what we will do about it.

[Trimmer]

She knew I didn't want the divorce & knew I wouldn't agree to it so she is the one that filed & she has paid for all of the divorce paperwork.

 

When I go in front of the judge & he asked if I agree with the divorce I will tell him I had no choice that she was the one that wanted it but I don't want anyone in my life that is a quieter or that doesn't love me.

 

I will be glad when it is over so I can fill that part of my life with good things. It does take up your time & energy with negative thinking.....

 

Like I said; yes I did say until death do us part, but she also has a choice & just because she doesn't want the marriage & that changes what I can do, doesn't mean it can control me. I need to move on, their is nothing I can do about her choice.

 

It is tough, there is nothing good about divorce, but life will move on & it is up to you/me to decide what we will do about it.

I understand and respect your points.

 

In my case, my wife made it unambiguously clear that she was leaving, so once it was clear that there was no changing her mind, I decided not to go kicking and screaming into my future, and I took over the divorce proceedings myself, as a way of taking power and moving forward. I did it all myself, and stood alone before the judge myself at the final hearing (there were by that time no points of contention to be decided by the court, so in our state, only one party is required to appear.) The judge didn't ask me if I "wanted" the divorce, or even "agreed" to it; his only question in that area was "Is this marriage irretreivably broken?" Can't make much of a passionate end-of-the-movie speech to that one, so I honestly answered "yes." He doesn't want to hear it, anyway...

 

All I can say is, she got what she wanted, and now, after a period of growth, I feel like I am getting what I want - not what I expected, certainly, but I'm looking forward to my life. We are being good parents to our kids and continue to have a civil and even supportive relationship as parents. I won't live the rest of my life, and miss opportunities to be involved in my children's lives, ducking to avoid her, to make a point to others, and convince myself of who I am and what I believe in. I already know.

[Justanotherschmuck]

I got a question for you guys. This "standing in front of judge" crap. Uhm. If

"Miss Self Growth" wants to end this, I can't do anything about it. But, I DO intend on making it as difficult as possible. I will work on my MARRIAGE. I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT work on my divorce. I'll misfile, I'll "forget" to sign important papers.....hell, I don't even answer who I am if someone approaches me and asks me "are you.......".

 

If you don't believe in war, you become a objector, you refuse to participate in ANY ASPECT of armed conflict. I don't believe in divorce. I am not planning on being a very cooperative sucker. This is why I am asking about "standing in front of a judge" stuff. You guys actually had to go and PARTICIPATE in something that was FORCED upon you????!!

 

Why couldn't your "wives" go to court herself. Shoot, your yes or no was absolutely no needed to this point, why is it so important now?? The system is intend on someone else changing the very core of your life WITHOUT your consent, surely your being there, physically, is unimportant, right?

 

What happens if you don't go? Jail. Fine, I look good in orange. Fine? Like I give a ratz azz about money. What can they do? Drag it on? Sounds like game to me, I'm in. I've already told my "wife". I will drag it on, make it a never ending battle, hike the cost of this thing up bigtime (money spending is always gut wrenching for her), I don't care. I am against this, this involves ME and MY FUTURE, and I will not participate in anything that has UTTER DISREGARD FOR ME AND MY LIFE. Whats gonna happen? She hates me already, there is NO chance of us getting together again, and there is the tiny matter of principle.

 

Oh, one other thing....If my "wife" is indeed carrying on an affair, is that brought out in front of the judge? THAT just might get me there.

 

ANd lastly, I have to say that I feel badly that you two guys had to go through a court appearance. I know you guys didn't want this and it must have been the OPITOME of having no control in your life. That is REAL important to me. I want control over MY life. The idea of someone messing with that control is gut wretching.

 

Thanks for any info.

[Justanotherschmuck]

I tried to add this through the editing button, but I couldn't for some reason. SO I had to post again. My apologies.

 

I read that Trimmer feels like he doesn't want to lose opportunities with his children or doesn't want to duck to avoid her.....and thats fine. In some ways, I am envious of him being confortable with his situation, and PWS says that it may happen to me also. I'm also fine with that, as long as I reach this level ON MY OWN. But, frankly, I have no problem DUCKING her, forever, shoot I'll make a game of it. Missed opportunities with my kids? I prefer DELAYED. They get married? I'll marry them again myself (marriage is all a big hoax anyways) Graduation? Come to my place afterwards. I won't miss anything UNLESS they want me to miss it. I just won't allow my wife to have ANY further control over how I experience my life.

 

All in all, I am comfortable with the fact that WHATEVER happens and HOWEVER I decide to go, HER actions caused it. SHE threw down the glove, she got the process going. Will the kids suffer? Hell yeah. ANd thats on HER conscience. I will NOT make it easier on her feelings of guilt or not guilt. Is this vengeful? Maybe. I really could care less. If she had wanted to work on this thing, I would have been as pig headed in trying to make it work, no quitting. But she didn't. She's trying to buy into this whole BS divorce thing. I have NEVER believed in it, and I never will. Nor will I involve myself in something I find so utterly disgusting.

 

BUt I write this, admittingly, realizing that I too may accept my sentence with the grace and dignity you two guys have. But for now, I intend of fighting ever step of the way. ANd I am planning on REALLY making sure she is OUT, 0-U-T or my life, in EVERY single way imaginable. No holidays, no special events, no funerals, NADA. This is what I need to survive at this point.

 

Thanks again for your time and advice.

[Gunny376]

Divorce can be many different things to many different people. For some it can be liberating and for others devastating? Mentally, emotionally, financially.

 

The reason most initially have problems wrapping the concept of divorce around their heads is I believe because they're suffering from something akin to Stockholm Syndrome.

 

I been divorced going on nineteen years now. Never re-married although I did shack up with a gal for six and half years in in North Carolina.

 

Many of you were dragged kicking and screaming into divorce court not wanting the divorce. But it was forced upon you.

 

I've got nineteen years post divorce, and I've learned a couple of things. And yes there have been times when it was hard, difficult, lonely, etc.

 

1. Drinking/ getting "high" yourself "blind" isn't part of the solution nor the answers? As a matter of fact drinking is part of the problem and questions? Its solves nothing, un-does nothing, changes nothing, isn't going to bring your spouse back. Your just going to suffer through a lot of hangovers, might cost your a job, will definitely cost the respect of others.

 

2. If you must? Go ahead and throw yourself a pity-party. Take a week off from work, have a buddy take your car keys from you and lay up drunk for a week and go ahead and get it out of your system.

 

3. If your looking for sympathy look it up in the dictionary ~ that's the only place your going to find it. And the absolute worse thing you can do is to feel sorry for yourself and your situation. Don't even go there ~ its a deep~dark place that can be hard to get out of.

 

4. FORGIVE ~ That's right ~ that's what I said! Forgive your spouse ~ but not for her sake, but your own. Otherwise your going to find yourself with all those negative emotions and feelings with you ~ possibly for years and years to come ~ hate, hatred, bitterness, anger, negative attitude, pestimism. I mean come on! Its like dragging a dead horse around everywhere you go? Let it go and get busy living and moving forward with and in your life.

 

5. Its all about the children ~ not you ~ nor her ~ the children. You seriously may have not asked for this? But they sure as Hell didn't!

 

6. Don't drag out the inevitable ~ get it over and done with! Life's to freaking short!

 

The problem for most of is that we married young. If your a man who married under the age of 25 you had a 10% of making it to begin with. If you married your wife because she became pregno? Ditto.

 

If you've been married 10 to 12 years? Look out!

 

If your wife is in her late twenties to mid thirties ~ she's probably going to be "peaking" sexually. She's either going to be "scrogging" your brains out or someone else's. "Stand-by to stand-by!" Your about to be hit by the "Perfect Storm"

 

And morals, ethics, societal and religious conditioning aside? Hormones rule! They are and can be more powerful than crack-cocaine, crystal meth. (Don't believe me? Read the book "Brain Sex" and Feb 2006 edition of National Geographic Magazine, or Time Magazine [i have to go look up the date]

 

So cut yourself some serious slack, a lot of this doesn't have to do with what you did or didn't do, should have done, could have done, ought to have done or not done.

 

A lot of it has to do with some very serious bio-chemicals and hormones, which explains a lot of the irrational behavior of wayward spouses, walkAway wives, affair fog, mid-life syndrone, etc ...........................

 

You may literally be in your right mind ~ but the literally aren't ~ and its they're own bodies that are doing it to them!

[Trimmer]

I hear what you're saying, and I understand, but I approached it very differently. I think you didn't get from my post above that I took over the divorce process intentionally. I didn't need to prove to anyone that it wasn't my idea - she knew and I knew. Honestly, in 6 months, nobody will really care anyway. I took the process on myself because it was the first opportunity that I had to take control of the situation and get into the driver's seat myself.

 

Lest you think I just rolled over, though, let me make it clear that I would have done anything to save the marriage - if she had joined me in putting the energy and heart into bolstering our marriage that I put into recovering from its dissolution, we might have had one hell of a marriage. But once that was not an option, I accepted it and decided what I wanted my future to look like, then took the wheel and started driving. So running the divorce my choice, and a source of power and control for me.

 

If you refuse to sign, refuse to show up, there are procedures for her to follow. It varies by state, but if you manage to dodge acceptance of service of the papers, I think she can publish a public notice in the local newspaper for some time, advising you of the petition and your need to respond. If you still do not, then after some time, things can move forward by default, i.e. simply by virtue of you not showing up.

 

Unless there is a court ORDER that you show up for something and you fail to, they don't really care. No jail, no fashionable jumpsuit, no martyrdom for you. What will happen though, I think, is that each time there is something you might otherwise have the opportunity to respond to and take a stand on what you think, what you want, or what you deserve, the judgement will simply go her way "by default." They'll wait some period for you to show up, and then assume that you don't care, and then essentially let her have it her way.

 

Now if you actually do something against the law, or willfully against a court order, etc. you may get whacked for contempt, but I don't know exactly how it all works...

 

All I can tell you is this: I used to be a doormat, but not any more. But I didn't do it the way I did it because I was a doormat. In fact, that was the point at which I rediscovered my own power as an individual.

 

I used to be a BS; I'm not any more. I used to think myself a victim; I am not. I used to have a walk away wife; I don't any more. I used to think I was the fully righteous one; now I know that I am "just" human. I used to cling to my anger and bitterness, and misunderstood it as safe harbor and strength, even as I knew it would eventually consume me if it continued to stoke its flames.

 

Now I have a life that I fully own; I'm father to two kids who are cared for by two parents who love them, who are civil and cooperative in their care, and who don't put them in a position to decide loyalties. I accept and welcome - for the benefit of my children - that I still have a relationship, as parents, with their mother, and I accept that she is no longer my wife. And with that comes the release of chains and shackles. She doesn't have a say; she no longer hovers over my life, either as an angel, as I originally saw her - nor as a ghost, as for a time I imagined she might.

 

I let her go, and in doing so, I released the burden of my own bitterness, anger, and anguish, and lightened my load for the trip ahead.

 

I know who I am, what I'm doing, and who's in control of my life; I don't have anything to prove to anyone.

[Trimmer]

I read that Trimmer feels like he doesn't want to lose opportunities with his children or doesn't want to duck to avoid her.....and thats fine. In some ways, I am envious of him being confortable with his situation, and PWS says that it may happen to me also. I'm also fine with that, as long as I reach this level ON MY OWN.

I agree that that's the only useful way of getting there...

 

But, frankly, I have no problem DUCKING her, forever, shoot I'll make a game of it. Missed opportunities with my kids? I prefer DELAYED. They get married? I'll marry them again myself (marriage is all a big hoax anyways) Graduation? Come to my place afterwards. I won't miss anything UNLESS they want me to miss it. I just won't allow my wife to have ANY further control over how I experience my life.

 

All in all, I am comfortable with the fact that WHATEVER happens and HOWEVER I decide to go, HER actions caused it. SHE threw down the glove, she got the process going. Will the kids suffer? Hell yeah. ANd thats on HER conscience. I will NOT make it easier on her feelings of guilt or not guilt. Is this vengeful? Maybe. I really could care less.

I don't have any problem with not making it easy for her, with making her live with the consequences of her decision, with not helping her one bit to get going in her new life, whatever. My only concern about this is that if your vengeance translates to collateral damage to your kids, in a situation where you could have stepped up, and you chose not to to make your point, then I'm not standing next to you any more.

 

I'm not sure this is what you are saying here, but if you are saying "they're going to be hurt, but I'm going to sit back and let it happen, because it's all her fault," when you could have stepped up and been a better Dad, then I'm not with you. It would make me feel better if you didn't use the phrase "I could really care less" so close to your realization that your kids will be suffering over this.

 

 

If she had wanted to work on this thing, I would have been as pig headed in trying to make it work, no quitting. But she didn't. She's trying to buy into this whole BS divorce thing. I have NEVER believed in it, and I never will. Nor will I involve myself in something I find so utterly disgusting.

You can "not believe" in tornadoes and hurricanes, but that doesn't prevent one from lifting your house off its foundations. Board up the windows, but also start thinking about what you want things to look like after you come up from the storm cellar - you'll have some rebuilding to do, but it can be an opportunity...

 

But I write this, admittingly, realizing that I too may accept my sentence with the grace and dignity you two guys have. But for now, I intend of fighting ever step of the way. ANd I am planning on REALLY making sure she is OUT, 0-U-T or my life, in EVERY single way imaginable. No holidays, no special events, no funerals, NADA. This is what I need to survive at this point.

Dude, I'm not trying to bust your balls here. I understand what you're going through; my main concern, as I think you can tell, is for the father that you could be to your kids. I hope you will find a balance that works for you and your kids, and will eventually find the joy in rebuilding your life the way you want it to be.

[Gunny376]

Much wisdom. knowledge, and experince from both of you!

[Justanotherschmuck]

Thanks Trimmer, and Gunner for your remarks and info.

 

I admit, at this point, I am spittin mad. I work for myself because I want to have control over my life. This is so NOT in control that it drives me INSANE.

 

I dated my wife for 8 years to make sure that she was the one. The subject of divorce was ALWAYS, LOUDLY, declared to be not only SINFUL, but selfish and just another example of a world spiraling out of control. And this isn't ME talking, IT WAS HER!!. With her rosary beads, and her religious statues, and religion magazines and going to church ever single week and the YEARS of trying to get me to go (which I didn't, which was a HUGE, SELFISH mistake on my part. It was important to her. I SHOULD have made it a priority for me, even if I was faking it, I should have done it for her) Everything she did pointed to her being with me forever. Put it this way. I was MORE prepared for something happening to my KIDS before I was prepared for the possiblity of her divorcing me.

 

I feel conned, duped, sideswiped. ANd I'm angry. I UNDERSTAND your statement about forgiveness. I realize its REAL important. And I would forgive her, IF (and its a HUGE if) she asked for it someday. But I ain't holding my breath. I'm Italian. She HATES italians. (I keylogged the computer and it gets real old fast reading all the hate about my nationality)But, shes right about one thing. Cross us, and its a cut that NEVER stops bleeding. Do me a solid, and I can NEVER stop repaying you, screw me and I go out of my way, to make sure you rue the day. I see it as getting what you deserve. Its funny, my wife didn't hate when I held a grudge against someone who hurt me or my family, she hated it more when I tried to repay a good deed. (Repaying sometimes cost money, and oh my, we can't have that, can we)

 

I understand your stance about me being a father to my kids. But, I just don't agree. If they hurt, its her, NOT me. I love my kids and they love me. They know whats going on. They know my faults. I've cut them slack for their shortcomings, over and over. ANd now, if they don't think I am doing the right thing with future events, time for them to return the favor and cut ME some slack. Ones in college and the other is about to go. They know their mother is domineering (they actually whispered to me that I should let MOMMY place a particular baubble on the tree while trimming the Xmas tree, or she might get mad..........can you believe it. Decorating a Xmas tree?!!) My oldest took the news about me not being a future events and said "I don't blame you, I wouldn't go either". The youngest cried. Me too. But, I stood fast because I know I ain't BSing. That being said. I admit, I would love to be able to show up, but its ALL so absurd. What am I gonna do, smile and shake her hand? If she's with another guy, who the hell is gonna drive her home when they find him with his head permantly wedged into the toilet? She may have divorced me, and SOCIETY may have told her she isn't my wife anymore, but, believe me, she WILL ALWAYS be my wife. Society didn't marry us. Only one guy did, and according to Him, she will always be my wife. What will I do when I greet her parents? If my sons come up to me and tell me in the future that they are leaving their spouses, and I LIKE their spouses, and know that they are good people, they are gonna be informed that OUR relationship is gonna be in BIG time trouble if they hurt someone like that. And find the majority of my foot up their azz.

 

We're just different Trim. You went from a doormat to someone who controls their life. I am going from ANYTHING but a doormat to someone who has NO CONTROL over their life and I'm scared and angry. You sound like a very nice man.......hey, which ticks me off even more! You trying to tell me that a spouse COULDN'T work out differences with someone as controlled and respectful as you??!!?? I'll read your posts, I might learn something, thanks again.

 

Gunner- after my wife told me of her plans for divorce, I spent the next two months with my hands wrapped around a bottle of Jack. I was a mess. THANK GOD, I finally had a business that could pay me while I wasn't doing my job.

I drank all day long, and STILL LOST 35 LBS!! I never thought the drinking would solve anything, I just didn't want to think about things, that all.

Its amazing how HEAVY a wife of 100 lbs could be. I felt like I was shot and my life was slooooowly trickling out of me and there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. All that trust, all the openess I had in my wife, I felt so used and foolish. I just don't see that EVER happening again. My trust in people is absolutely ZILCH.

[Gunny376]

Gunner- after my wife told me of her plans for divorce, I spent the next two months with my hands wrapped around a bottle of Jack. I was a mess. THANK GOD, I finally had a business that could pay me while I wasn't doing my job.

I drank all day long, and STILL LOST 35 LBS!! I never thought the drinking would solve anything, I just didn't want to think about things, that all.

Its amazing how HEAVY a wife of 100 lbs could be. I felt like I was shot and my life was slooooowly trickling out of me and there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. All that trust, all the openess I had in my wife, I felt so used and foolish. I just don't see that EVER happening again. My trust in people is absolutely ZILCH. Today 1:29 AMGunny376Much wisdom. knowledge, and experince from both

[Gunny376]

Gunner- after my wife told me of her plans for divorce, I spent the next two months with my hands wrapped around a bottle of Jack. I was a mess. THANK GOD, I finally had a business that could pay me while I wasn't doing my job.

I drank all day long, and STILL LOST 35 LBS!! I never thought the drinking would solve anything, I just didn't want to think about things, that all.

Its amazing how HEAVY a wife of 100 lbs could be. I felt like I was shot and my life was slooooowly trickling out of me and there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. All that trust, all the openess I had in my wife, I felt so used and foolish. I just don't see that EVER happening again. My trust in people is absolutely ZILCH. Today 1:29 AMGunny376Much wisdom. knowledge, and experince from both

 

One of the best People I ever meet was Riccardi! An Italian kid from NYN! He saved my @ss!

[Nomad1]

JAS - The religious ones are the worst. They repress their instincts for a lifetime, while unfulfilled desires simmer beneath the surface like a volcano. The pressure builds gradually until the magmatic depot erupts into rivers of vile concoctions of gases snuffing the life out of every living creature in their path. Freud will have a thing or two to say about such people. As far as she is concerned, you are the symbol of her years of repression. She will press your buttons no end.

 

Your ethnic identity aside, you should think long and hard about why you are feeling the way you do. I am not suggesting being friends with her, but why would you deny yourself your right to continue to be part of your children's lives. You will be even more unhappy when you miss important events in their lives. They will be marked by your absence. She has chosen a life without you. If it bothers you so much for her to bring OM to your children's future important events, why not reach a compromise that neither of you will do that?

 

Think about it.

 

Take care

 

Nomad1

[PWSX3]

Just a quick update!!!!

Things are going well, I am still in my classes which end next month just in time to get back on the bike.....

 

One of the gals from last falls Divorce Care class & I have been starting to hang out together. It has been fun going to movies, going out to eat, etc. What started it was I saw her setting by herself or with her friend at church so I just asked if I could set with her. Come to find out that she kind of liked me back in DC class but when it was over we went our separated ways until this month. We used to set next to each other so we talked before & a little after but not much.

 

I had to meet with the stbxw Tuesday for a signature and she kind of hinted around that maybe the divorce wasn't the right thing to do according to the bible. She has also started going back to church but a different one then I go to. She had hinted around another time as well, but I blew that one off but this one was a little more blunt.

 

Well at this time I am happy with where I am and I'm not ready to get burned the third time.......

 

My roller coaster ride is not near as bad as it used to be but part of that might because of my friend, she has been so helpful & a joy to be around.

 

We are planning on going on a walk tomorrow, Church Saturday evening then going out to eat...

 

Decided I can't afford the duplex so we are selling it. The neighbor in the other half's brother might be interested in it so that would be good. Get it sold & get our taxes done & I'll be a happy camper!!!!!!!

[sumdude]

Keep on keepin' on P!

[seibert253]

It's always darkest right before the light. Good to hear you're doin' well.

[Gunny376]

Good the hear things are turning around for you "P"

[Justanotherschmuck]

Just a quick update!!!!

Things are going well, I am still in my classes which end next month just in time to get back on the bike.....

 

One of the gals from last falls Divorce Care class & I have been starting to hang out together. It has been fun going to movies, going out to eat, etc. What started it was I saw her setting by herself or with her friend at church so I just asked if I could set with her. Come to find out that she kind of liked me back in DC class but when it was over we went our separated ways until this month. We used to set next to each other so we talked before & a little after but not much.

 

I had to meet with the stbxw Tuesday for a signature and she kind of hinted around that maybe the divorce wasn't the right thing to do according to the bible. She has also started going back to church but a different one then I go to. She had hinted around another time as well, but I blew that one off but this one was a little more blunt.

 

Well at this time I am happy with where I am and I'm not ready to get burned the third time.......

 

My roller coaster ride is not near as bad as it used to be but part of that might because of my friend, she has been so helpful & a joy to be around.

 

We are planning on going on a walk tomorrow, Church Saturday evening then going out to eat...

 

Decided I can't afford the duplex so we are selling it. The neighbor in the other half's brother might be interested in it so that would be good. Get it sold & get our taxes done & I'll be a happy camper!!!!!!!

 

Gee, ya think?? I'm taking a shot in the dark here, but maybe, just maybe, she starts being more blunt about it when she finds out youre starting to recover and date.

[dgiirl]

Come to find out that she kind of liked me back in DC class but when it was over we went our separated ways until this month.

 

Awwww!!! Have fun with this! Dont get too serious too quickly, but it is always flattering to feel admired and nice to feel those butterfly feelings You've been making a LOT of changes. This is karma rewarding you

 

As for the stbxw, do what YOU feel is right. She's made the decision to leave twice now. It's not enough for her to just say that maybe the divorce wasnt right according to the bible. She also needs to figure out HER part in the breakup, what caused her to be sooo unhappy that she made that drastic decision, and, most importantly, what she would do differently next time around.

[PWSX3]

Awwww!!! Have fun with this! Dont get too serious too quickly, but it is always flattering to feel admired and nice to feel those butterfly feelings You've been making a LOT of changes. This is karma rewarding you

Thanks dgiirl, that means a lot coming from you. I do feel we started out a little hot & heavy just because of the good feelings of butterflies, etc. so we have slowed things down, starting to just learn more about each other instead of just making out!!!!

As for the stbxw, do what YOU feel is right. She's made the decision to leave twice now.

How does that saying go; fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!!!

I was telling my mom about what she had said & she just said; no she should have figured something out between the separation & divorce.

It's not enough for her to just say that maybe the divorce wasnt right according to the bible. She also needs to figure out HER part in the breakup, what caused her to be sooo unhappy that she made that drastic decision, and, most importantly, what she would do differently next time around.

After seeing my counselor only for a few times he had me make a list of things I would like in a partner, or things that I feel are non-negotiation things. I wondered why he wanted me to do that so early but he explained; someday the stbxw will get interested or maybe want to come back, she will see the changes or she will get in a relationship that didn't work or she is just struggling with money, etc.etc. & he wanted to me to be ready for when that day comes. I would have never thought it would happen, she was so finished she said, but I have a feeling he is right.

 

I know their are issues in her past that she needs to deal with, especially since I didn't feel I had any & I'm finding out I have LOTS of them.

Like my friend was telling me the other day, our hurts are like a iceberg. We only see 10% of the iceberg on top of the water & the rest is underwater, just like our hurts they are deep & under the surface and until we work on those we can't heal....

[PWSX3]

so far the weekend has been awesome. Got to go for a bike ride yesterday (some of that good pain ) with a friend from the club & then picked up my friend (can't really call her a G/F just yet) and we went to church & then we went out to eat at a nice little pizza joint in old town at a town just north of us. After we ate we walked around the two or three blocks of stores that they call old town & they have some cool stuff that you don't find at your local stores.

 

Then we went shopping & she tried a couple shirts on & I know this might not be nice to say but it was so much fun to be able to just shop at a regular store & have her try things off the shelf, plus she was excited because she was trying on cloths one size smaller then she usually buys. I always had to shop at Lane Bryant's so your selection is limited with the stbxw she wouldn't try it on but just take it home and then if it didn't fit she would take it back. Ggiirl I did share with her what you like to do & try on cloths you really wouldn't think would be your style or maybe the color isn't something you would wear & so next time she wants to do that.

 

My friend also had fun trying the cloths on for me because I got an email saying it has been a long time since she felt good about shopping for herself and someone really cared what she was wearing. It was just fun, hanging out & spending some time together.

 

Now today I'm cleaning, then going for a ride with the club this afternoon, spring is in the air & life is moving forward.

 

Life does get better...

[PWSX3]

So I get a text from the stbxw saying; I need to ask you some serious questions about our relationship?

 

So she sent me a couple questions & I asked what her motivation is for asking? She replied with; the motivation behind the question is for me to be able to find out where God wants me. If he wants me to be divorced or stay married?

 

Since she moved out in Aug. she has been going back to church just like I have, but different churches. She started going to a Christian counselor about 3 weeks ago & has been working on some of her past issues & now wondering about our marriage.....

 

Just when you think everything is over she brings this up.....Grrrrr!!!!

[mark982]

after leaving you 2x's,the question should be what do you want?not what she or god wants.