Michael212 Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Something useful I learned about dealing with the pain of loss. Once the painful event is over, the mind will keep on producing images which re-create the pain. Images of what has been lost. The person, what they meant to one, what their good points were etc etc. Images are always far more powerful than reality in their capacity to influence our emotions. The way to lessen the pain is to start off by making the conscious choice to not pursue images which lead one down the path to the pain again. One of my friends describes this as "scratching at the scab that is forming over the wound" When one makes the conscious resolution to "stop scratching" one's energy is free to flow down different channels which lead to places other than the old wound. This is a discipline - like meditation - that can dramatically diminish the pain of an experience. When the image pops into one's head - all one need do is remind oneself to "stop scratching" and focus one's attention on something else. Anything else. Work, exercise - whatever. Do anything to avoid scratching. The longer one leaves the wound alone - the more it will heal until the impulse to scratch disappears completely. Then one is healed. The thing I think that is useful to remember is that the wound is not about the person who has been lost. It is about one's own emotional / cognitive process that is trapping one in a place where one doesn't want to be. When one sees that - then one sees that the beloved in fact has no power to reduce the pain of the wound by returning. One sees that one's power for cure lies in one's own hands. That is liberation.
kizik Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 I like this, Michael. Thanks for posting it. My question is, isn't a certain amount of thinking about them, and indulging those images, a part of healing? I do not know what to block and what to allow.
Chinook Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 I like this, Michael. Thanks for posting it. My question is, isn't a certain amount of thinking about them, and indulging those images, a part of healing? I do not know what to block and what to allow.I think I kind of agree with Kizik. It's my experience with other losses (not just a relationship) that for the heart to heal, the brain has to make sense of what has happened. Some of that natural process comes from looking through those mind images - almost like a book. We look for answers mainly with what went wrong. Alot of the time we do this in order to self-blame and our self-esteem takes a huge hit. But also as human beings we're the only sentient beings on this planet, we learn from our mistakes, we think about what choices we have and we're guided by not repeating past behaviours because we don't want to hurt any longer. In order to do that, we have to experience that painful part of healing, in order that we know what to avoid next time. I don't think it's as easy as just blocking out those images... it's when the revisiting of them becomes pathological that it becomes a problem. That said, I do agree with you that after some time has passed, there is a great deal of benefit to be gained from 'just not going there' and 'shelving' thoughts and images of a past love or lost relationship. It's my current coping mechanism that if I avoid thinking about something long enough, it will soon enough become irrelevant. But I couldn't have got to this place without first hurting in the early days and... boy... did it hurt. Alot.
kizik Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 So, Chinook, what do you consider the "Early Days"? I'm 2.5 months post-breakup and bombarded my memories all day. I honestly don't know whether to indulge or reject them.
northstar1 Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 So, Chinook, what do you consider the "Early Days"? I'm 2.5 months post-breakup and bombarded my memories all day. I honestly don't know whether to indulge or reject them. Some say to block the memories out, or think of something else. I have tried this, but it doesn't work well. If my mind is gonna play me a little ex memory, it's gonna play it regardless of it I start thinking about a big steak dinner, winning the lottery, or dating angelina jolie.
Chinook Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 So, Chinook, what do you consider the "Early Days"? I'm 2.5 months post-breakup and bombarded my memories all day. I honestly don't know whether to indulge or reject them.Kizik, I'd say that you're still way in the early days yet hon. Hard as that is to hear. I'm 13 months out and I still have bad days. Not as many and I don't want him back or even want to talk to him. But my mind pulled him off the pedestal and stopped the mental imagery around 6 months ago. It takes as long as it takes and trust me it's hard. I wrote painful post after painful post about it. Friends here helped me immensely when I was so blue. But I found, no matter what I did, I still needed to work through it myself. You'll get there, when your brain and your heart are good and ready. I think for me... I just reached a point where I couldn't cry anymore. I couldn't feel anymore. I just wanted it all to stop. The numbness I felt was much better than pain. It's getting less numb by the day now and I can actually think of him with some fondness on occasion. It takes guts and strength to do that though and I don't always have it available to me... so sometimes, it hurts too.
kizik Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Kizik, I'd say that you're still way in the early days yet hon. Hard as that is to hear. Actually, not hard to hear at all. Quite the opposite. It is encouraging, b/c I beat myself up a lot for not being further along than I think I should be. I'm 24, do you think it's harder when it's only your second or third tough break-up, and you are relatively relationship-inexperienced?
Chinook Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Actually, not hard to hear at all. Quite the opposite. It is encouraging, b/c I beat myself up a lot for not being further along than I think I should be. I'm 24, do you think it's harder when it's only your second or third tough break-up, and you are relatively relationship-inexperienced?You know, I saw this very question posted elsewhere and I did think about it at the time and I thought 'yeah, maybe it is easier for me' because I'm relatively experienced because this was my 4th major breakup (I'm 38). But you know when I think back to my first breakup, I took that hard too, but it didn't seem to take as long to get over. I dunno, experience counts for a lot... but then youth can also count too. I think I found it easier to bounce back when I was younger. Plus, socially... it's a different situation you find yourself in when you're in the 30s/40s age group because mainly all your friends are married with children, so if you are the only one (like me) who finds yourself single, the chances are, your social circle with which to share it is alot smaller. I know when I was younger, there were more girls to share with, to eat ice-cream with, to drink wine with and swap breakup stories with. Now, it's pretty isolating and tough going. It feels like you're a failure even more now than you did when you were younger. So... I dunno, maybe it is easier in some respects with time... but also, maybe it's easier when you're younger too. Sorry to sound so mixed up. What I can tell you is that with each breakup, it has been alot quicker each time to healing
kizik Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Experience counts for a lot... but then youth can also count too. ...maybe it is easier in some respects with time... but also, maybe it's easier when you're younger too. Interesting. Thanks for your insights. Right now I have no social circle, but I'm going to be attending a downtown university come September where certainly there will be many like-minded folks around my age. For now, living is tough. To bring it back home... Michael, I need to strike a balance between lingering on images and totally denying them.
Chinook Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 I need to strike a balance between lingering on images and totally denying them. I think you're right. It's hard I guess. I think I found it easier to block the imagery when I could actually concentrate on other things. If I knew I couldn't concentrate, I didn't try because it was futile and I ended up feeling guilty for being so useless at it. But in those moments I was successful, it didn't matter... because I was distracted doing something else. What I would say to you is, find something you like to do which is absorbing but easy to concentrate on.
kizik Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 One word: music. I write and play songs and am currently recording a new album. Thanks Chinook.
Chinook Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 One word: music. I write and play songs and am currently recording a new album. Thanks Chinook.You're welcome For me it was computer games. But then, I'm a nerd
Author Michael212 Posted July 23, 2008 Author Posted July 23, 2008 Its a truly interesting question - to allow the feelings to flow or to use a kind of neuro linguistic programing to short circuit the process. I like to think there is a bit of both. I think feelings are natural and its natural to express them. I also experience that the mind can actually generate feelings that are not there in the moment. If you are hurt in the moment - you cry and it hurts and then you move on to the next thing. That is healthy grieving. Like a baby does - falls down - ouch, needs some love - 20 seconds again all is well and play again. But the mind that anticipates future pain or re-lives old pain is a mind that is out of control and not taking pleasure in the full potential of the present moment. When the mind is out of control one literally cannot appreciate the present moment or open oneself to the possibility of new pleasurable experiences. Grief - I have experienced - can be like a bottomless hole. One can keep filling it and the mind can keep re-generating the grief. Its tempting to imagine that if one just digs deep enough one will reach the "end" of one's suffering and be cleansed of it. I think perhaps that suffering is more of a state one can enter into or leave at will. Just as bliss is. Becoming too attached to events as triggers for entering into states of bliss or grief can leave one is floundering on an ocean of change. Living in flow means having the discipline to express an emotion powerfully without suppressing it - and then letting it go. I think perhaps each of us knows when we have passed the point of healthy expression and entered the territory of pointless re-hashing.
kizik Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 I'm going to try to reply to your response in my own words. Its a truly interesting question - to allow the feelings to flow or to use a kind of neuro linguistic programing to short circuit the process. To heal myself: Do I grieve freely 24/7, or stop the thoughts I know will hurt me? But the mind that anticipates future pain or re-lives old pain is a mind that is out of control and not taking pleasure in the full potential of the present moment. Don't be a victim. Don't be someone who wallows in self-pity and pain. One can keep filling it and the mind can keep re-generating the grief. Its tempting to imagine that if one just digs deep enough one will reach the "end" of one's suffering and be cleansed of it. Don't torture yourself by intentionally re-imagining things. Don't think that if you intentionally suffer, you can "heal" yourself. I think perhaps that suffering is more of a state one can enter into or leave at will. Just as bliss is. Becoming too attached to events as triggers for entering into states of bliss or grief can leave one is floundering on an ocean of change. We choose how much something hurts us. Snapshot memories aside, triggers (I just drove by the store we used to go to) don't need to lead us to depression. I think perhaps each of us knows when we have passed the point of healthy expression and entered the territory of pointless re-hashing. We know when we're being sado-masochistic with our thoughts. Don't hurt yourself; simply grieve how you feel you should.
Chinook Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 I was listening to a radio show on my way into work today. In the final minutes of the show, the presenter posed a question to the audience and she asked for the audience to contemplate the three most important things in their life they have done... a pivotal thing which has changed their life. Living in flow means having the discipline to express an emotion powerfully without suppressing it - and then letting it go. What you posted here Michael, was something I learned the very hard way, six years ago. Throughout all my adult life, this has been the one thing which has benefited me the most. Healthily grieving a loss and moving on. I learned it the hard way because I had no other choice. I was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer. I was 32 and young people's cancer of my kind is pretty rare. I had no choice but to walk those feelings and thoughts around a little... and then I had to let them go... because I wanted to get busy with the business of living, surviving, breathing, fighting. It was a painful, traumatic lesson. But one I learned well. I think this is what I was trying to explain earlier ... letting go is GOOD... after a period of experiencing those emotions first. It's difficult to explain it to others in such a manner that makes it okay to express a feeling, without wallowing. You did well with that explanation, thank you.
Author Michael212 Posted July 23, 2008 Author Posted July 23, 2008 What you posted here Michael, was something I learned the very hard way, six years ago. Thank you for your kind reply. I feel humbled by your story.
borelandkaren Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 So, Chinook, what do you consider the "Early Days"? I'm 2.5 months post-breakup and bombarded my memories all day. I honestly don't know whether to indulge or reject them. Kizik, excuse me if I'm being rude and I know you are a musician but do you have any other kind of work that you do. I find that the more my mind is occupied and the fitter my body is becoming, I think of Tony the same amount but the way I think of him is different. I don't look at him so much now like the one that got away, or wronged me, or that I completely adore, I see him as a tortured, twisted soul, who is without me in his life and who will continue and is continuing to make the same mistakes as he made whilst he was with me. This vindicates me. I always thought that I was crap with money, had no concept of organisation, etc. These were all of the things he tried to make me believe about myself. Au contraire!!! I am actually very organised (to the point of being almost anal!!) and a total tightarse with money! He on the other hand has absolutely no organisational skills and keeps bouncing cheques all over the place. What I'm saying, darl, is that an idle mind will overthink and analyse everything to the enth degree. Maybe you have to pull yourself off this treadmill. Just a thought. Keep smilin'.
borelandkaren Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 You know, I saw this very question posted elsewhere and I did think about it at the time and I thought 'yeah, maybe it is easier for me' because I'm relatively experienced because this was my 4th major breakup (I'm 38). But you know when I think back to my first breakup, I took that hard too, but it didn't seem to take as long to get over. I dunno, experience counts for a lot... but then youth can also count too. I think I found it easier to bounce back when I was younger. Plus, socially... it's a different situation you find yourself in when you're in the 30s/40s age group because mainly all your friends are married with children, so if you are the only one (like me) who finds yourself single, the chances are, your social circle with which to share it is alot smaller. I know when I was younger, there were more girls to share with, to eat ice-cream with, to drink wine with and swap breakup stories with. Now, it's pretty isolating and tough going. It feels like you're a failure even more now than you did when you were younger. So... I dunno, maybe it is easier in some respects with time... but also, maybe it's easier when you're younger too. Sorry to sound so mixed up. What I can tell you is that with each breakup, it has been alot quicker each time to healing This is what I have found as well. I don't have many girlfriends as Tony didn't want me to have too much of a support network but at 42 I'm finding it hardish to make friends. I'm not old either by any means. I think I keep a pretty youthful state of mind but everyone I meet are younger or guys and they're involved with other women, who will not befriend me because they think I'm after their men. The pitfalls of working in a male dominated industry! But I know in time things will change. I have also moved states to escape him so I only have my family up here and a few people I live and work with but I don't socialise much. This is why I keep as busy as I can with my work and wet days (like today) because I work outdoors and can't work when it rains, I spend most of the day on LS!!!! I don't think that age makes any difference to the way you deal with r/s, though. An investment is an investment. Any time you put in at 24 or 42 is a big thing. Chinook. None of that failure shyte, either. Doesn't matter if it's a r/s or a business decision. If it doesn't work, that's what happened. It doesn't mean you're a failure. One of Rupert Murdochs' sayings, that I love, is "Don't let the things that you can't do, stop you from doing the things that you can." If we have that attitude that we've failed rather than hit a snag, it will stop us from doing so many things. You seem to me to be a very strong person. You haven't failed, darl. Just hit a snag.
justaman99 Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 What I'm saying, darl, is that an idle mind will overthink and analyse everything to the enth degree. Maybe you have to pull yourself off this treadmill. Just a thought. Keep smilin'. This is so true. When I work at home my mind tends to wander way too much or if I get home from work and don't have anything planned my mind seems to move towards her and I come here. When I go out, work out, cook, read, work, play cards, spend time with family, get out of town I'm a hell of a lot happier. After a day alone I am totally exhausted mentally.
kizik Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Kizik, excuse me if I'm being rude and I know you are a musician but do you have any other kind of work that you do. Hi Karen, I work part time in an office, am going to school part time this summer (usually full-time). I'm not as busy as I'd like to be. Karen, have you heard me complain about not really having any friends? Why do you think I am LS all the time? The people who I used to hang out with were no good for me, so I stopped. Coincidentally, when I stopped was shortly after I started dating R. (Obvious connection? Sucubus!) So now I have none of those high-school friends. Everyone at my work AND school is 40+. Nothing against 40 year olds, but I wanna hang out with people my age at this stage in my life. I don't have enough going on to keep my mind occupied. Frankly, I don't want to be so busy (like my ex) that I don't give myself time to think and heal. Conversely, admittedly I am tired of always thinking about her. I saw my "little brother" today. I had class tonight and that was good. I recorded yesterday and that was good. I work out a few times a week and spend time playing guitar and watching movies and TV. But no, I am not busy enough and I am overall not happy with my apartment, job or school.
jackie11 Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Thank you for posting this. Every bit about it is so unbelievably true and it hit home with me for i am sort of dealing with a break up with someone i was with for a year and half.(its super complicated) very helpful and inspirational =]
borelandkaren Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Hi Karen, I work part time in an office, am going to school part time this summer (usually full-time). I'm not as busy as I'd like to be. Karen, have you heard me complain about not really having any friends? Why do you think I am LS all the time? The people who I used to hang out with were no good for me, so I stopped. Coincidentally, when I stopped was shortly after I started dating R. (Obvious connection? Sucubus!) So now I have none of those high-school friends. Everyone at my work AND school is 40+. Nothing against 40 year olds, but I wanna hang out with people my age at this stage in my life. I don't have enough going on to keep my mind occupied. Frankly, I don't want to be so busy (like my ex) that I don't give myself time to think and heal. Conversely, admittedly I am tired of always thinking about her. I saw my "little brother" today. I had class tonight and that was good. I recorded yesterday and that was good. I work out a few times a week and spend time playing guitar and watching movies and TV. But no, I am not busy enough and I am overall not happy with my apartment, job or school. Hi Kizik. Looks like it's time for a change, hey. While it may not be something you've sat and really thought about, maybe now's the time. Do you live on your own or do you have housemates? Whatever the situation, maybe reverse it. What subjects are you studying? Do you like what you're studying. I know by reading your posts and the pictures of you in your avatars that you are a very intelligent man and I'm just hoping that you're not selling yourself short. U know that whole, "life 1/2 lived, life wasted" thing. I'm in the same boat where the friends situation is concerned. I meet people all of the time but no-one who really appeals to me as a long term friend thing. Do you meet people at school? Get out there as much as you can. You've got shirtloads to offer. You are articulate (I love to read your prose), witty and clever. Give others offline a chance to see all of these qualities and I know things will turn around. It's just a time thing, darl and you're young. You've got plenty of it.:)
Mary3 Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Memories are just * files * in our brain. To take the ex into account as example : George ( ex ) attach this to George's * file * .: George is a thoughtless selfish jerk " Say that aloud a few times. Then pull up George in the memory bank. and along comes "George is a thoughtless selfish jerk" Try this with anyone that you are struggling with pain add your own name of choice and your own adjectives . Another thing that helps is to imagine that person and when you see their face you shatter them by explosion. Meaning you see the ex , and BOOM ! You make their image shatter into fragments. Another interesting one : When they cross your line of sight , fade them from bright and colorful until you can make them a pale image , kind of like a ghost until you fade them completely into nothing.. Regarding thinking about the ex. While we don't want to think about them in the beginning , it is crucial that our brain processes what went wrong , and we train our minds to STOP when they come into thoughts. IN the beginning it is better to cry or do whatever it is you need to do to heal.
kizik Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Karen, to respond: Hi Kizik. Looks like it's time for a change, hey. While it may not be something you've sat and really thought about, maybe now's the time. I have transfered colleges to go to a university downtown beginning Sept. 20. Finishing classes at my current U. Do you live on your own or do you have housemates? One roommate, great guy. Will be living on campus downtown as of Sept. 20. What subjects are you studying? Do you like what you're studying. English Lit. and Creative Writing. I love it. No need for a change there, good idea though. I know by reading your posts and the pictures of you in your avatars that you are a very intelligent man and I'm just hoping that you're not selling yourself short. Thank you for the compliment, and yes, I am selling myself short. Taking steps to utilize my abilities. Do you meet people at school? Not really, it's an "adult, non-traditional commuter college" so that's why I'm transferring. You've got shirtloads to offer. You are articulate (I love to read your prose), witty and clever. Give others offline a chance to see all of these qualities and I know things will turn around. It's just a time thing, darl and you're young. You've got plenty of it.:) Thanks so much for your encouragement, Karen. It's probably just what I needed to hear at this point, to not get down on myself just because of circumstances. I appreciate it.
borelandkaren Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Karen, to respond: I have transfered colleges to go to a university downtown beginning Sept. 20. Finishing classes at my current U. One roommate, great guy. Will be living on campus downtown as of Sept. 20. English Lit. and Creative Writing. I love it. No need for a change there, good idea though. Thank you for the compliment, and yes, I am selling myself short. Taking steps to utilize my abilities. Not really, it's an "adult, non-traditional commuter college" so that's why I'm transferring. Thanks so much for your encouragement, Karen. It's probably just what I needed to hear at this point, to not get down on myself just because of circumstances. I appreciate it. Well, as we all know here on LS, circumstance can certainly change!! And it sounds like you're doing all the right things. It's all just going to take time obviously and after Sept 20, I think you'll find that things will just take their own course. Good luck with everything, darl and pretty college girls, LOOK OUT!!!:lmao:
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