sharebear823 Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Hello. My problem is that my husband, who moved out five years ago, and I are thinking about trying to get back together, and I'm not sure if that is wise. We have three children together. For the first years of our marriage, we seemed to be doing well, but when the children were born we started to have conflicts and disagreements that seemed impossible to resolve. We had major problems for the last 8 years that we were together before he moved out, and we started fighting much more frequently. I asked him to go to counseling with me, but he refused to go. Then we moved across the country because he got a new job, and that seemed to be "the straw that broke the camel's back," so to speak. He moved out with no notice almost exactly five years ago to this day. For the first year after he left, I begged him to come back and he kept repeating that he wasn't happy with me and that we both deserved the chance to move on and be happy with someone new. So, after that I decided that I would "move on" and try to "be happy with someone new," and I started a relationship with someone. We weren't divorced yet, but definitely headed in that direction, and he said he wasn't coming back. Well, when I started dating this other person, then he suddenly wanted to go to counseling and try to work things out with me. We did go to counseling, and talked through all the reasons why he left, and then he said he was ready to try again with me and wanted to move back into the house with me and the kids. However, I wanted to work on the issues of trust and his anger and everything that I was still worried about. Well, he said he was too old to change and I needed to just accept him the way he is because he did not want to work on anything more in counseling. I thought that was unfair, plus I was afraid to have him move back in until I was sure he wasn't going to do the same disappearing act again in a few years. I know there are no guarantees, but with the children, they'd finally adjusted to the two households and my husband and me living separately, so I didn't want to do anything too rash that might hurt them more. We ended up going to a mediator to work out the details of our divorce, and for various reasons that I won't go into here, it took a looooong time to get the agreement worked out, but we finally did. There has been a huge amount of fighting and anger on both our parts during this time. I have never really forgiven him for moving out to begin with, and that is because I've never gotten over the sense of hurt and betrayal that I felt. Despite that, we finally were at the point where the lawyers were giving the agreement a final look before filing, and at that point (in the last two weeks) I put on the brakes and said I thought maybe we should try one more time to work things out. So, we've gone back to the marriage counselor and are talking about it. I'm not really sure why I did put on the brakes at this late stage of things. Maybe it's because I'm just trying to put off the final step for some reason. I don't know how we can ever hope to put things together after all the rancor and distrust that has occurred between us over the last five years. At the same time, I keep thinking of all we'll miss out on, with being together as a united family for the kids, grandkids, etc. Weddings, graduations and other family events would all be so much nicer with an intact family, in my opinion, if only we could somehow make it work. Still, I don't know if we even are capable of really pulling it off after all that's happened. I think maybe I'm just trying to put off the inevitable. Should I just get the divorce and move on, or is this something worth trying to put back together somehow? I know you can't tell me what to do, but just wondering what some unbiased observers might have to say about my situation. Thanks very much, in advance, for your remarks.
Chrome Barracuda Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 It's your choice. no one else's. I'll tell you now I'd be hard pressed to even forgive a woman who abaoned me and our kids for her damn job and told me we need to see other people. Toying with people's emotions and lives in the process does not inspire people to be with you. I would say only try only if he is. You have to look at his actions. his actions have to match his words. let him prove his worth if he wants to come back and you do the same.
Author sharebear823 Posted July 20, 2008 Author Posted July 20, 2008 It's good advice, what you said, to try only if he tries. It's true, what you are suggesting; that actions speak a lot louder than words. Honestly, I don't think either of us would try if it weren't for the children. I just feel so guilty about the fact that they now come from a broken home. I feel that we owe it to them to try to work it out, for them, not really for ourselves. I don't think that really makes sense, but that is how I feel, and I think that is how he feels, too. Starting over with someone new, there will always be this niggling feeling in the back of my mind; "If only we could have tried a little bit harder, been a little less stubborn, a little more caring..." At the same time, I think I'm driving myself nuts with this line of thinking. Part of me says, "You already tried, it didn't work, give yourself and the kids a little credit for having the strength to live with the situation as it is." When there are children involved, it truly is a whole different ballgame. This decision would be a "no-brainer" if not for that. However, the children represent the absolute best of the two of us together. As such, they deserve the absolute best from their parents...If only I could figure out how to give that to them! Thanks so much, I do appreciate your remarks, and it does help a lot to think of it in terms of actions rather than thought processes. I am glad to have that insight from you!
Mr. Lucky Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 This sounds like you didn't get along very well when you were together: We had major problems for the last 8 years that we were together before he moved out, and we started fighting much more frequently. I asked him to go to counseling with me, but he refused to go. Then we moved across the country because he got a new job, and that seemed to be "the straw that broke the camel's back," so to speak. He moved out with no notice almost exactly five years ago to this day. And this sounds like you didn't get along very well when you were apart: We ended up going to a mediator to work out the details of our divorce, and for various reasons that I won't go into here, it took a looooong time to get the agreement worked out, but we finally did. There has been a huge amount of fighting and anger on both our parts during this time. I have never really forgiven him for moving out to begin with, and that is because I've never gotten over the sense of hurt and betrayal that I felt. Why would you want to go back? My ExW and I were separated for 18 months - no kids, didn't see each other or talk at all, she'd moved to another state - and decided to get back together to give it one more try. Guess what ? Once the "honeymoon" was over, the same old issues, fighting and incompatibility quickly returned. As they say, deja vu all over again. So be very, very careful... Mr. Lucky
Author sharebear823 Posted July 20, 2008 Author Posted July 20, 2008 Thanks very much for sharing your experience with me, and also for pointing out what should have been, but was not, obvious to me. I can't really ignore what is right there in black and white. I didn't even see it until you juxtaposed my remarks closer together, but you are right. He and I have struggled to get along throughout our time together. There were a lot of times when we got along wonderfully, too, but I have to admit that the children did suffer a great deal whenever we were fighting, and now that we are separated, they don't have to witness that. Why would I want to try? Well, many of the things we used to argue about no longer exist. It is partly because we don't spend as much time together, and I hear you on that. It could very well be that we would get back together, take off the rose-colored glasses, and pick up right where we left off. That truly would be tragic. On the Plus Side, I got counseling for some of my childhood and early adulthood issues that negatively impacted the marriage. I am healthier now, as I suffered from depression after each of my children was born, and that is no longer an issue. My husband has curbed some of his anger that was directed toward my kids. On the Minus Side, we both still have anger management and control issues, as well as over-reacting and pushing each other's buttons. I am really glad you wrote, because I have learned a lot from your insights. I am going to think long and hard about what you've written. Thanks so much for sharing part of your story with me.
imagine Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Hello Sharebear I just needed to convey my sympathies to you. I have learned through my reading of Dr Harley's principles at Marriage Builders that it is particularly hard for a woman to endure such a long term emotional trial. I have no idea of the circumstances other than described by yourself. From what I understand from your perspective, there is a deal of vanity, stubbornness and possible mutual breaking down. These are NOT God honouring. Your husband has abandoned the family home. He has abandoned communication. He appears also to have abandoned his conjugal duties (Simon Leon thread). Abandonment is a legitimate Biblical reason for divorce. There is, however, a process which requires defaulter/s to be progressively confronted with their error. The process works like this, confront personally, then confidentially (Church elders) and lastly publicly. No change, should result in a healthy church, disfellowshipping of the guilty party. Divorce will allow you to legitimately remarry if the above has been met. Do not engage in dating untill the divorce is through. The benefit of remarriage will be not only companionship, SF, but also, hopefully, a healthy marriage role model for your children. Weigh these things carefully!
Author sharebear823 Posted July 20, 2008 Author Posted July 20, 2008 I hadn't heard of Marriage Builders before joining this site, but after reading your post I decided to check it out and read the summary of basic concepts. Harley's concepts make a lot of sense, and I could see how my marriage fell apart, based on the concepts. We both were guilty of going to the two extremes of initially making each other happy at our own expense, and subsequently demanding our own happiness at one another's expense. There wasn't any balance, and now we have been languishing in the "withdrawal" mode for what seems like an eternity. Ugh. I'm sure there is a lot more to it than the information I gleaned in the five minutes I spent at that site, so I intend to find out a lot more about the concepts and how to possibly attempt to fix our problems. It seems to me that a large part of fixing them requires both of us to take a huge leap of faith in each other at this point, and I'm not sure that we have the ability to put that kind of trust in each other after all this time, but I will give it serious consideration. Both of us were/are at fault and we both must bear responsibility for the demise and take new responsibility to fix what may be broken beyond repair at this point. Your insights are helping me a lot, and I appreciate you taking the time to share them with me. I had no idea this forum existed, and somehow happened upon it seemingly by chance. I'm really glad I found this place.
SingleDad Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 If you are both inclined, I would give it another chance - but don't jump in with both feet. Start slow. Start by dating and talking. One date at a time. with no sexual relations. and no expectations. See where it goes from there.
Touche Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 So you want to get back together for the kids? Nowhere in this did I hear anything about love. Do you still love each other? Because if you're just getting back together for the sake of the kids and you don't love each other anymore, I don't think it will work. I mean marriage can be a challenge under the BEST of circumstances - that is when both parties love each other. Do you both still have feelings for each other?
Author sharebear823 Posted July 20, 2008 Author Posted July 20, 2008 Hi. Thanks for the input, SingleDad. I agree with you that is the way to go: One date at a time with no expectations. We did go on a date recently, and it went fairly well. At the end of it, though, I had the feeling his heart wasn't in it... Which ties in with what Touche asked, regarding love. Ah, the "L" word... Sadly, that has always been absent from my husband's vocabulary. I don't ever recall hearing him say the words "I love you." Not even once. Me, I said them all the time, and I'm not sure he ever even knew what I meant by them! He is a true "intellectual," someone whose head is usually "in the clouds." He thinks great thoughts and communicates them to others, and those thoughts are never in the realm of "feelings." I don't know that he puts much stock in the expression of feelings as being anything more than a distraction, although I think he is the type of person who "shows" rather than "tells" someone he cares about them by going to bat for them or listening to their problems, or running errands for them, or something along those lines. I, on the other hand, am the type of person who craves affection and the expressing of feelings more than anything else. Fundamentally we are incompatible in that regard, and it caused no end of friction for us in our relationship. I would say "I love you," and be met with silence. Sometimes I would stoop to asking him, "Do you love me?," which would have the effect of simultaneously lowering both my esteem for myself and his esteem for me, and he would usually answer, "I care for you." Never would he utter the word "love," and if pressed he would just get angry. (Just relaying that on this site is upsetting to me, even now.) It was so humiliating, and I could only conclude that no, he in fact did not love me, which would send my mood spiraling down, and then I would lash out at him for some seeminlgy unrelated "offense..." I have to concede that our fundamental communication problems were and still are rooted in this issue, and perhaps this is such a deeply seeded issue that it cannot be weeded out...I don't want a loveless marriage, that is for sure... I can't emphasize enough how much all these comments are helping me to really examine and analyze this differently and much more accurately than I have done in the past. Thanks to all for the guidance and insights! With your help, I may come up with the answer after all. Until posting here, I've been pretty much spinning my wheels.
TrustInYourself Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Hi. Thanks for the input, SingleDad. I agree with you that is the way to go: One date at a time with no expectations. We did go on a date recently, and it went fairly well. At the end of it, though, I had the feeling his heart wasn't in it... Which ties in with what Touche asked, regarding love. Ah, the "L" word... Sadly, that has always been absent from my husband's vocabulary. I don't ever recall hearing him say the words "I love you." Not even once. Me, I said them all the time, and I'm not sure he ever even knew what I meant by them! He is a true "intellectual," someone whose head is usually "in the clouds." He thinks great thoughts and communicates them to others, and those thoughts are never in the realm of "feelings." I don't know that he puts much stock in the expression of feelings as being anything more than a distraction, although I think he is the type of person who "shows" rather than "tells" someone he cares about them by going to bat for them or listening to their problems, or running errands for them, or something along those lines. I, on the other hand, am the type of person who craves affection and the expressing of feelings more than anything else. Fundamentally we are incompatible in that regard, and it caused no end of friction for us in our relationship. I would say "I love you," and be met with silence. Sometimes I would stoop to asking him, "Do you love me?," which would have the effect of simultaneously lowering both my esteem for myself and his esteem for me, and he would usually answer, "I care for you." Never would he utter the word "love," and if pressed he would just get angry. (Just relaying that on this site is upsetting to me, even now.) It was so humiliating, and I could only conclude that no, he in fact did not love me, which would send my mood spiraling down, and then I would lash out at him for some seeminlgy unrelated "offense..." I have to concede that our fundamental communication problems were and still are rooted in this issue, and perhaps this is such a deeply seeded issue that it cannot be weeded out...I don't want a loveless marriage, that is for sure... I can't emphasize enough how much all these comments are helping me to really examine and analyze this differently and much more accurately than I have done in the past. Thanks to all for the guidance and insights! With your help, I may come up with the answer after all. Until posting here, I've been pretty much spinning my wheels. Recognizing the part you play in communication differences is the first step in improving them. Also since you have some understanding in the way your husband communicates, you have an advantage. If you're into reading, there are a few books you can check out about understanding our actions and how they affect our relationship. Specifically, how our actions and reactions are the fuel for our SO's actions and reaction. It only takes one person to begin the healing process. Butterfly effect and all that jazz. Michelle Weiner-Davis is the author. Go do some researching at your library. Free books are great. Best of luck and best wishes.
carhill Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 OP, what would happen if you let the long and likely very expensive divorce agreement be finalized and filed? How would that affect your situation with your STBXH? Do you think being legally divorced would affect how you feel about each other, compared to right now? Why? Why are you really hanging on to the marriage? This is a question our MC asked us. My immediate answer? Fear. What's yours?
TrustInYourself Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 OP, what would happen if you let the long and likely very expensive divorce agreement be finalized and filed? How would that affect your situation with your STBXH? Do you think being legally divorced would affect how you feel about each other, compared to right now? Why? Why are you really hanging on to the marriage? This is a question our MC asked us. My immediate answer? Fear. What's yours? Agreed. A divorce is not the end of the world. It's an end to the marriage. It allows you both a chance to move on. It's not even an end to your relationship with your husband. It's just a matter of acceptance of the reality of the situation. If the love is real, anything can happen. Best wishes!
Author sharebear823 Posted July 21, 2008 Author Posted July 21, 2008 Well, the two of you really are making me think, now, and that's a good thing! If the divorce were to be finalized, I guess I would really feel the pain that comes with the loss of hope. Also, the fear that carhill spoke of. For me, it is the fear of being "alone," in a spiritual sense. I have always believed that the two of us together were somehow better than either one apart...all the Catholic stuff seeping back in, that I have unsuccessfully tried to block out of my mind. I truly believed (still do, apparently,) that my husband and I had a true sacramental marriage that was sanctioned by God. (I hope I'm not offending anyone here with the Catholic mumbo-jumbo, pardon me if that is the case, it is not my intention. I just want to express my "truth," and my Catholic faith has played a very large role in my view of my marriage.) I guess the loss of the marriage represents, in my mind, the loss of my faith, too, to some extent, and if f he and I could somehow get back together, I think my faith would also be restored. Anyways, thanks for the insights, and TrustInYourself, thanks for the book suggestion. I do like to read self-help books, and that sounds like one that could be very helpful. My best to everyone on this site. It's great being here and having a place to really "talk" things over!!
carhill Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 No worries; 12 years of Catholic school and altar boy here. I understand and empathize completely. Even though I don't practice, the old programming is always creeping in Hang in there....you'll find the path that's best for you.
zennya Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 i have been reading posts in the forum and this is my first time posting... in my humble opinion, please do take your time to think carefully for your decision. I wish you luck! this forum really helps me with everyone insights. thank you!
Touche Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Sharebear, given your answer to me about love, I wouldn't do it. You'll be lonelier than ever. And since there are kids involved I really, really hate to say that. But what I would be focusing on now is working out the best way to "co-parent." Because to me, this man doesn't sound like good husband material. Not for you anyway. Boy did you bring back memories of my ex-H and I. Your H sounds just like him. He was brilliant but cold. Didn't like saying "I love you" either. Felt that it was overused and diminished the meaning of the word. He would never kiss me hello or goodbye. No affection. And I craved that. I felt so lonely with him. He wouldn't even let me cuddle with him in bed. He didn't like being touched when he slept. I used to cry myself to sleep. That's no way to live. You both need to come together for your children. But you deserve to have love and affection in your life. And it doesn't sound like you'll have that with him. So for me, that would be my answer. Nothing has really changed. Good luck with your decision though. Only you can decide what you feel is best for you.
Author sharebear823 Posted July 23, 2008 Author Posted July 23, 2008 Hi, Zennya. Thanks very much for responding, I do appreciate you taking the time to do so, and I appreciate your thoughtful advice. Touche, thanks for sharing your experience. It does sound like these two men are quite similar in many ways. Mine used to be much more physically affectionate in the beginning of the marriage. I know that he changed after I became very depressed with childbirth. He didn't know how to help me, and I kept trying to get help but had the hardest time finding a therapist to talk to who really understood my depression (because I appear to be very on top of things and was always able to hide it so well, no one ever thought I really had problems...boy were they so wrong...I had a ton of issues from my childhood and early adulthood that wormed their way into my marriage and wreaked havoc on it. Anyways, all of that has been discussed now in therapy, and that is a large part of what we needed to work through. There were certain things I did out of my depression that I needed to ask his forgiveness for. Once he understood what had happened to me, he forgave me, and wanted to come back to the marriage. However, there were still all these issues I had with him, such as coming home from work and watching television for three hours straight without interacting with me or the kids for more than about ten minutes, and then going to bed at 9 p.m. every night, never wanting to do anything with me anymore on the weekends, etc. I think now that maybe it was because he also became depressed, because I was so depressed and the marriage was so stressful and difficult. So, I am not blameless in this, by any means, obviously. He is a good man, and he did the best he could under the circumstances. Anyway, Touche, it is all so complicated, and when I look at all the different issues that pulled us apart...constant uprooting for his job (and I am someone who has a very strong desire for roots,) all the turmoil we faced, the lack of support from family because we're all so scattered, my issues, his own issues...It's a huge mixed-up jumbled mess!! Yet, for some reason I still think it could work. I really wish it could work out for us. Tonight at dinner, my daughter told me she thought he still wanted it to work out, too. I also know that my children would be so overjoyed if we could make it work...but only if we could make it work without all the fighting and disrespecting of one another. I really need to understand about the affection issue, though, and companionship in general. I never watch television, for one thing! He does spend a huge amount of time with the kids, though, doing things with them, so I think it's possible he's given up the "television-induced coma" that he put himself into every night and weekend. I could never go back to that version of him, and if I found out he was like that after we got back together, I would have to be the one to call it quits unless that changed. I know that would be so hard on everyone, especially the children. It would be horribly unfair to the children, in fact. So, I will have to really take my time and see... Thanks for "listening!"
Navin_R_Johnson Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 Sharebear, Fascinating story. Five years? Wow... I really got alot out of your post here....very good stuff. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1765593&postcount=215 Anyway, good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Author sharebear823 Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 Today my husband and I had to talk on the phone about our daughter, who is 19 and driving both of us nuts with her refusal to obey our rules, and he was telling me something, and I interrupted him, and he just went ballistic. "Don't interrupt me! I've listened to you, now you listen to me!" I shut up and listened to him, but it gave me pause. I find myself weighing every interaction now, thinking, "Is this something I can live with," or wondering if I'm overreacting. I guess that's a good thing, and I need to really listen so I don't make a mistake. When we were together, he used to do that too, and my stomach was always tied in knots over it. He and I both are major over-reactors, which always escalates emotions up a few notches above where they should be. It causes an enormous amount of stress and expenditure of energy. One of my thoughts has been that we both would be better off with people who are much calmer by nature, to diffuse some of that stress. What do others think about this?
Mr. Lucky Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 One of my thoughts has been that we both would be better off with people who are much calmer by nature, to diffuse some of that stress. What do others think about this? Not sure if the way you get there is as important as the ability to agree on common goals. Based on your posts, you two seem to want fairly different things from life. Whether you argued or meditated together, that seems like a big thing to overcome... Mr. Lucky
Author sharebear823 Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 Thanks to all of those who have read and answered my posts regarding this difficult decision (and a special thanks to SingleDad, whose threads I seem always to be "treading on!") I think that writing all this stuff out and reading all of the replies has really helped me to see a few things a lot more clearly for what they really are. One thing is that I don't think my husband and I are, or perhaps ever have been, particularly compatible, and the amount of conflict that we generate, even under the best of circumstances, seems overwhelming. The stress is really too much to bear, and I can't stand it any more. Another thing is that I've realized that five years really is a very long time to be hemming and hawing about this choice. To use the fishing analogy again, it's time to "fish or cut bait." Before I kept thinking that if we had really wanted the divorce, we would have gotten it by now. Now I'm thinking, if we had really wanted to get back together, we'd have found a way to do so by now. Third, I'm just so tired of all the stress this is putting on my children, and they have been living with false hope for too long. I think if we did get back together, and then it didn't work out and we split up a second time, it could really damage them a great deal. Fourth, I really think I need to face my fears of being "alone," as I said before. A lot of things are worse than being alone. Being in a half-hearted marriage is probably one of those. So, I guess I'm getting ready to really throw in the towel on this relationship and move on. I have learned so much about relationships, and I think I'm probably in the position to have a more successful one next time around, given all I've learned. It seems sad, but I guess that's just life.
SingleDad Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 sharebear... 5 years is a long time to be in limbo. Don't know what I would do if my separation lasted 5 years... Guess it's really about what you want and what Ex wants... Until you have a serious discussion about it, you will keep wondering about it and remain in limbo land.
Angel1111 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 It's good advice, what you said, to try only if he tries. It's true, what you are suggesting; that actions speak a lot louder than words. Honestly, I don't think either of us would try if it weren't for the children. I just feel so guilty about the fact that they now come from a broken home. I feel that we owe it to them to try to work it out, for them, not really for ourselves. I don't think that really makes sense, but that is how I feel, and I think that is how he feels, too. Starting over with someone new, there will always be this niggling feeling in the back of my mind; "If only we could have tried a little bit harder, been a little less stubborn, a little more caring..." At the same time, I think I'm driving myself nuts with this line of thinking. Part of me says, "You already tried, it didn't work, give yourself and the kids a little credit for having the strength to live with the situation as it is." When there are children involved, it truly is a whole different ballgame. This decision would be a "no-brainer" if not for that. However, the children represent the absolute best of the two of us together. As such, they deserve the absolute best from their parents...If only I could figure out how to give that to them! Thanks so much, I do appreciate your remarks, and it does help a lot to think of it in terms of actions rather than thought processes. I am glad to have that insight from you! The children are not the issue because they have lived with this for 5 yrs already. He left you and said he wasn't happy with you. Personally, I would never get past those words, or what he did. And it really doesn't sound like much has changed between the two of you. If you do get back together, you may be able to do it for 2 or 3 yrs but will probably end up right where you are now. Do you really want to invest any more time into this than you already have? I would suggest 'cutting out the cancer' and moving on.
Recommended Posts