wannabehappy Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I have writing for the last week and a half and things change everyday. My husband cheated by text conversations back in 3/07 and got caught by me. Then he cheated with the co-worker who he was talking to about the problems we had concerning the cheating. I am trying to be civil with him and I feel good cause I am lettting go of the anger. I did not expect anything when I recently let him know how I still feel about him and I still love him, but I also said we need time apart like he has been saying for the last year. I agree we need time apart, but he says he loves me and is not sure if he loves her or not - His words were "He thinks he may love her" but he is not sure if it is just the feeling he was getting of love from her that I was not giving him that makes him feel that way. I know it sounds crazy and I dont even care anymore at this point but it is to clarify the situation for the readers. (I admit to treating him badly and not showing attention and affection). My only issue at this point is I am letting go of him because he is saying he is confused and he does not know what he wants to do. I dont want to be part of the choice he thinks he needs to make. We have 2 kids and have been together for 16 years, I get the time apart we need that but I do not like the fact he feels I am a choice to him. I wont let myself be a choice. He just always says the wrong things when I talk with him how I feel and I know I need to get him out of my head and only deal with him on a need to bases. I dont hate him but I feel I may begin to if I keep having regular talks with him like I have been. He says he is moving and everytime I have a conversation with him he throws in he is moving and we need time apart, he needs to work on himself (as do I). I hope we can one day be together and get past this, but it is the right now that is hard to deal with. He does say he loves me and does not want to hurt me. I do feel like I am being disrespected by him not promising to not sleep with her again until we are divorced. That is where I feel I must cut him out of my life (cuz we do spend time together alone and as a family). But I think I have to lose that to get my respect. Basically let him go to hope to have him again one day. I'll be fine the only hard part is not spending time with him and being able to talk to him. I need to not call him and not act like things are fine. I can not be his friend at this point. I am gonna work on me and my needs and wants not his. Just need support from people who can give me advice and thier own experience on how I should go about phasing him out of my life. Thanks
Ladyjane14 Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 First things first, sweetie. You might get more varied responses by keeping your posts all on one thread. That way, people don't have to back-track in order to remember your story. Also... I can't speak highly enough about paragraph breaks. You've had all this sprung on you VERY recently, and you haven't had enough time to really mull over what it is that YOU want yet. Fact is, if you don't want this guy anymore... he's given you a really perfect 'out'. I'm NOT saying that's what you should do, but it IS something to think about. Wanting to fix things is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. For the most part, it takes a couple of weeks to really know what you want. In the meantime, and because you DO seem inclined to try to fix this... you might want to try reading through a copy of Surviving An Affair by Harley. That will get you started. To be frank with you, if he's willing to stop seeing this OW, I wouldn't throw him out. Harley tells us... ".....the risks of separation are great. It should be used only as a last resort to help resolve a fatal flaw in marriage. Once separated, couples often never do reconcile, remaining separated for life, or they eventually divorce." Physical separation increases the odds of permanent separation. It should be avoided when possible. That said, Harley also tell us THIS: "In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations." So. If he CAN find it within himself to "control his destructive behavior" by implementing a NO CONTACT situation with the OW... then, it might behoove you to allow him to stay in the home. Frankly, if he's in an active affair, he WILL use this time of separation to 'test drive' the illicit relationship. And you don't know what the repercussions of that might be. Often enough, the OW will wind up "accidentally" pregnant. Bottom line, your marriage cannot survive the continuation of the affair. The sooner it ends, the better your odds of reconciliation will be. Harley's tools will get you started. If you type into your browser "what are plan a and plan b", you'll find an article that will give you a bit of an overview of the book. Explore the website if you like. It's good stuff. But, me to you... stay off the boards over there. No good can come from indulging in bitterness if your end goal is a loving marriage. Oh, and I really LIKE what you said about not being a "choice". That's a good strong place to start. You're nobody's side-dish. You have VALUE. Your odds of marital recovery are improved with his understanding that any continuation of the affair involves the REAL risk of him actually losing you. If he doesn't respect the risk factor, he'll just keep playing you 'til he's done. And believe me, you'll be fed up with it long before he will.
imagine Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Listen to Lady Jane. Lady Jane speak heap plenty good sense!
sharebear823 Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I have not read your other threads, only this one, but I think your husband sounds incredibly selfish and arrogant, and I am shocked that he is taking his time about making "his" choice, when it isn't only "his" marriage, it is your marriage, too, as well as your children's family, that is being decided upon. How can he be so self-centered as to only think about it in terms of what HE has to decide?? I think your husband is being extremely unfair to you and the children. Unless he stops the affair and recommits himself to you, I think you need to hire an attorney, and make sure that your financial interests and those of your children are protected. I'm very sorry that you are in this situation, and wish you the best. I know it is extremely difficult.
imagine Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Please consider using paragraph spacing. This will prevent reading fatigue to prospective posters. Thanks in advance! (((HUGS!)))
Author wannabehappy Posted July 22, 2008 Author Posted July 22, 2008 LadyJane thanks alot for the advice. Well as things stand now he is still with the "I need space" thing. I do want some space also at this point. I am being civil with him and not fighting or having verbal confrontations with him (normally we do). However, now he is acting jealous but says he is not. I went out dancing the other night and he was asking crazy questions about the underwear I wore. As soon as I say I am going out with friends he does the same things and goes out the same night or the next night. Who knows where he goes - I do not trust him in the least, he lied for several months and only admitted to it cause I repeated the same thing everyday and had evidence (I never said how I got it). He claimed to be scared of my reaction. He says he is trying to stay away from the girl but never did he promise. I have said even though we are not together it is still cheating. He says he is moving "soon" and just needs space, he claims to be confused and that I end up talking about it each day. I end up talking about it because he gives me an attitude and I just remind him the hell he has put me through. I really truly feel he believes the things he says as to why he cheated. He says I was mean to him I did not show him love (or say it), attention, or affection. I agree I did not to a degree but it not a reason to hurt me so bad. I could have dealt with the "I will leave if you dont do this" or "I am leaving because you dont do that". I am sure I would have kicked him to the curb and been done. But he lied for a long time and made me think I was crazy and assuming things, he broke my selfconfidence an made life hell for a year +. He has pushed me to the point I dont care as much as I did before. I dont snope as much as I had and I dont question him and accuse him like I have done. While I would love to mend us and be what we could have been I know I can make it on my own. I am not afraid of that anymore. I am just "tired" of the whole situation and he is backing me into a wall where I dont want to be with him as much as I once did. I know I can never see him as the same person he was before the cheating. Well that is my story for this moment it does tend to change a bit based on my feels at the time but I feel strong and can deal with whatever I will face.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 However, now he is acting jealous but says he is not. I went out dancing the other night and he was asking crazy questions about the underwear I wore. He's not ready to turn loose of 'the bird in the hand' yet? Hmmm.... I'm thinking that adding some 180's to your program might make him a bit more intrigued. This is from Michelle Weiner Davis' book Divorcebusting: Quote: 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! 2. No frequent phone calls 3. Do not point out good points in marriage 4. Do not follow him around the house 5. Do not encourage talk about the future 6. Do not ask for help from family members 7. Do not ask for reassurances 8. Do not buy gifts 9. Do not schedule dates together 10. Do not spy on spouse 11. Do not say "I Love You" 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he will be missing 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him someone he would want to be around. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) 21. Never lose your cool 22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic 23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes their feelings stronger) 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil) 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes He says he is trying to stay away from the girl but never did he promise. That means he's still seeing her then. He says he is moving "soon" and just needs space, he claims to be confused and that I end up talking about it each day. I end up talking about it because he gives me an attitude and I just remind him the hell he has put me through. First things first... in the 180's list above, you'll see that she recommends that you don't initiate relationship talk. I agree with that, but... and it's a big but... this is YOUR marriage too. Not just his. So, the next time he accuses you of haranguing him, why not look him right in the eye and say so. It was HIS choice to take your marital problems outside the marriage, his choice to cheat, and his choice to f*ck with your head about it. After you've had your say, beat feet and leave the area for awhile. Never go toe-to-toe with a WS. You can't reason with unreasonable people. Which brings us to a "hit and run" strategy, whereby you call him on his bullsh*t and then leave him gawping like a goldfish. IOW, you reduce your message to 'just the bullet', some small little factoid that's easy for his fogged-out brain to remember... without getting drawn in to a protracted argument. It's not meant to be so much a snarky dig, but rather a reminder of facts. So, watch your delivery. When he says "I need space because I'm so confused", you look him in the eye and refute it, "No, you want space so you can test-drive your new girlfriend. I'm not a fool." Then, you excuse yourself from the area and leave him stewing on that little tidbit. You are NOT required to listen to a bunch of fogged-out malarkey off this guy with no recourse. If he's talking bull, correct him, and then get the hell out of Dodge. I really truly feel he believes the things he says as to why he cheated. He probably does. And his points about the state of the marriage prior to the cheating deserve your heartfelt attention. But... YOU didn't unzip his pants for him and make him lie to you about it. You might have a 50% fault in the problems of the marriage, but he's 100% guilty in his choice to cheat. Don't let him buffalo you on that score.
Author wannabehappy Posted July 23, 2008 Author Posted July 23, 2008 Today I was upset all day and just sad that I know we are done. I told him I am not sure how to deal with him at this point as we are not together. He never says anything he just stares at me and nods his head and repeats over and over he needs space. I also I don't think we will work out (he repeatly says once he has time apart we may get back together). He then said he did not think I would be able to be with him in the future. That through me for a loop as I thought he expects me to be there if and when he wants to work on us. He gets very angry when we end up with the conversation of now I am showing him love. He said he thinks it is f***ed up that I showed him love and attention after he decided to leave. When ever it comes up he is soooo angry about it I don't think he will ever get past that point. I told him he holds back yet when we talk but yet he wants to be my friend. I know I don't know how he feels cause I can see on his face the wanting to say something but never does. He told me he will open up once he gets his space - I replied I might not be there to listen cuz of his behavior now. I mean what I said but I may regret saying it out loud. In the end I do want a civil relationship and I would at least want him as a friend. I know I am not supposed to talk with him about anything. He tells me all the time he does not stay home because he needs space and I always talk about the relationship. I know I need to just move on with my life but it is just so sad. We could have been better then how it ended up being. We had soooo many opportunities to fix what was broken and now it is too late. I am sad about that but to too sad to allow myself to be trapped in a never ending cycle of sadness and not move on. I know I deserve better then the wait and see attitude and the not being able to promise not to see the OW. So that is why I am firm in my letting go and moving on but it is hard.
SingleDad Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Sounds similar to my situation. Your STBXW has moved on emotionally and relationship. Any begging and pleading will just push him away further into GF arms and it will convince him that he is doing the right thing (his mind is twisted at this point). You need to find strength in yourself. Focus on your kids now. If you think if is possible to save your marriage, then you need to have perseverence - give him the space he needs and be friendly to him as much as possible for the kids. Over time he may just find the grass is not greener on the other side and come crawling back. You do not need to find another relationship now - you are not ready. I am doing exactly the same as I have written.
Billy Bob Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 He says he is moving "soon" and just needs space, he claims to be confused and that I end up talking about it each day. I end up talking about it because he gives me an attitude and I just remind him the hell he has put me through. Don't put up with this BS. He's not confused, he knows what he wants, he's just not sure what the repercussions will be... so he is hesitant. Don't believe a word coming out of his mouth. he is telling you what he thinks you want to hear and or trying to manipulate you. Life is too short. Find somone that wants you and only you. Be happy, don't be a doormat.
Billy Bob Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 I know I deserve better then the wait and see attitude and the not being able to promise not to see the OW. So that is why I am firm in my letting go and moving on but it is hard. Good for you! He wants to keep you as a doormat backup. Don't let him. You were a happy individual before your relationship with him, and will be again. I guarantee if you go NC and start dating he will be trolling around again. Don't let him control the relationship, say your done with him, goodbye!
Author wannabehappy Posted July 24, 2008 Author Posted July 24, 2008 Thanks for the advice. Single dad tell me how it works for you cuz it is very hard. I do feel like he thinks he can do and say anything and still have me love him. I tried really hard not to talk to him about the relationship today but failed. I talked to him and he told me he is moving on the first of August. He is moving to the same apartment he moved out to in February. When he moved out in Feb. he lasted until April when he moved back in. Told me he wanted to work on the relationship that is why he came back but I know it was he could not afford it. I am ready for him to move at this point because it is so hard having him here. I may lose my house and/or have to get a second job but I swear I need space from him it is so worth it. He thinks I want him to not move but I do agree we need time apart or there maybe problems. I agree with the fact I need to leave him and just move on but I remember the person he was and I want that back. He would have never been as cruel as he is now then. And I believe there is some part of him still left. I guess I hope there is some part of him left, but in reality I have put up with more then I ever should. I treated him very badly in the past but I feel like he took so much more hard core. He got mad tonite when I asked him a question about her. He accused me of spying (which I do). He is so angry more then I ever feel he should be if he is the one that has tresspassed on our relationship. He gets so mad whenever he says I should have paid attention to him before not after he left when he moved out. He seems more mad at me for not paying attention and giving affection to him then I am mad about what he has done to me. He seems just fed up with me at this point. I am pissed at him beyond words but I am not mean anymore (I was up until I got the truth) now he has taken over where I left off. Now I fine it better to not be so angry and again I am punished. I am sick of the drama I just cant take it I am ready to take my kids and bail he just does not know. I cant stop snooping I have slowed down but I can not stop. I can not stop asking him questions and talking to him about it all. I know it just gets me mad and upset in the end but I continue to ask and I can not stop. Maybe soon I can, I hope.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 ..... I remember the person he was and I want that back. He would have never been as cruel as he is now then. And I believe there is some part of him still left. Dealing with a WS (wayward spouse) is, in alot of ways, like dealing with a split personality. You think there's "some little part of him left"... because there is. It's like there's a war going on inside, and you don't know who's going to emerge. From moment to moment, you don't know if you'll be dealing with the husband you knew or the ravening beast of a WS, the one who's determined to feed the flames of his affair addiction at ANY cost. Eventually, one personality will come out on top. While you can't fully control which one it will be, you DO have a bit of influence.... The WS thrives on negativity. He NEEDS you to be a great, big, ole b*tch in order to validate his desire to cheat. Your husband, on the other hand, is still in there somewhere... watching. As the 180's list above suggests, he's looking for positive change in you. The only thing you can really do is to feed positive energy into the home and starve the WS of the negative energy he needs to survive. ..... He is so angry more then I ever feel he should be if he is the one that has tresspassed on our relationship. He gets so mad whenever he says I should have paid attention to him before not after he left when he moved out. He seems more mad at me for not paying attention and giving affection to him then I am mad about what he has done to me. When you think about all the things this guy has had to tell himself in order to give himself permission to cheat, it only stands to reason that he's nursing old grievances rather heavily. Yeah, he's got his side of the story, but... in order to continue validating his decision to go outside the marriage, he's GOT to hold on to his anger. He's got to AMPLIFY these old grievances and stay mad at you. Otherwise, he's open to remorse and doubt. His anger keeps his resolve together and helps feed his affair. The thing that might help you in dealing with all this, is to try to look at his behavior with a certain amount of clinical detachment. I know that sounds easier than it is. But when you can mentally separate behaviors that feed the affair addiction from those which are more genuine... you take on a whole lot less emotional damage. It makes it possible to stem the tide of loss from your love bank so you can hang in there a little bit longer.
Author wannabehappy Posted July 24, 2008 Author Posted July 24, 2008 Lady Jane, I honestly love the way you put things. I appriciate the thought you put into things. I know times will be hard but I also know I can and will survive. I will keep you updated on any progress.
SingleDad Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 LadyJane - you do have a perspective that I appreciate. You have responded to my threads with great advice... I tend to think that my W maybe a wayward spouse - not necessarily cheating, but wanting something different... and she does seem to have a split personality... I have to treat her well to start replenishing her love bank and see if she may come back.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 Lady Jane, I honestly love the way you put things. I appriciate the thought you put into things. I know times will be hard but I also know I can and will survive. I will keep you updated on any progress. Thanks for saying that. It made my day. Because... I've noticed a tendency toward brevity in my posts over the last year or so, and sometimes I worry that I'm not explaining my thoughts clearly enough. LadyJane - you do have a perspective that I appreciate. You have responded to my threads with great advice... I tend to think that my W maybe a wayward spouse - not necessarily cheating, but wanting something different... and she does seem to have a split personality... I have to treat her well to start replenishing her love bank and see if she may come back. You know, the very SAME method that Harley employs for dealing with a cheating spouse seems to work well on the merely recalcitrant one too. I know you're feeling alot of pressure to go the "kick her to the curb" route. And I do think there are times when it's not only valid, but preferable to come out strong with a WS. But if you're going to be true to what it is you REALLY want... I think Harley's "Plan A" gives you the best shot. For Wannabe, I think it might be beneficial to first 'bang her shoe on the table' Khrushchev-syle in order to get her man's attention... then go on to "Plan A" (outlined in Harley's Surviving an Affair. Who knows, if she puts the fear of no return into him... he might give it up without having to resort to physical separation. For you though, SD... things are too far down the pike to try a gambit like that. Your separation is well underway, your wife is determined to divorce. A "tough love" approach will only validate her position at this point. You'd only be proving her point. That said, you can't be begging or pleading because she'll just view that as "pushing". She ALREADY knows you want her back. The trick now... is in allowing her to observe all the things that are attractive and positive about you. Your job is not to talk her into anything, but to let her watch you grow. She has to WANT to come back. She has to want YOU. Now, will she want a sad-sack of a man, or a charming, smiling one??? I think you probably know the answer to that. Of course, it's tough to pull off when you're feeling down and you already know going in that you're likely to get your teeth kicked down your throat. But it is what it is... your best tools are EN fulfillment and attraction. The 180's can help you create a bit of mystery and make you more interesting... hence "attractive". Wannabe will need to pull more selectively from that list though. In a situation like hers, where her husband might have been feeling unloved and mistreated, a stoic reaction might confirm his worst fears that she really doesn't care. It would likely be beneficial that he be allowed to observe at least some of her distress. Tears, anger, "shoe-banging"... weird as it is, these things can sometimes say "I love you".
Gunny376 Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 LJ~ As my Marine Corps Drill Instructor Sgt E used to say !@%$%^%$&&& I don't know what it is you do for a living but your Happy AZZ should have been a MC! (Marriage Couselor)
Author wannabehappy Posted July 27, 2008 Author Posted July 27, 2008 I was thinking about all I have learned from my situation and how much it will help me later on in a future relationship or even with him as a friend or even as something more (if the situation would occur). I have so much knowledge I can use to be a better other half to someone I am willing to share my heart with. He is still moving but we have been spending time together. It is hard cuz I want it to be perfect but easy cuz I get to spend time with him alone which I had not done in a long time. Still not sure where things are going at this point but I can deal with which ever dirrection it takes. I had so little selfconfidence for a long time, I blamed myself and was so angry now that I have let that go I am so free. I walk around with confidence and see that there are men interested and that I do stand a chance of dating again if I get to the point I would want to. That feeling is good. I do cry when I think of the time wasted and how things are so different now but I do know things will happen the way they were ment to happen. I am not really sure how I will handle situations that may occur. I know I love him but I also know he may lose me if I choose to take myself out of the whole mess. Right now I am just seeing where things will go.
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