Kosh Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I recently have discreetly been checking and have uncovered a repeated pattern of unknown/private/cell phone numbers on wifes cell phone log. Recently I called back a few mystery phone numbers and they have been answered a male voice message where the guy identifies himself by his first name (who is not a name which is known to me from our circle of friends or friends of hers that I know of). The cell phone logs show that she makes no outgoing return calls back to these numbers but suspect that is done from a land line/payphone. We are apart for vast majority of each weekday leaving plenty of opportunity for lunchtime/other time meetings. She also travels frequently for business reasons. Question for anyone with input, tips or who can help: how can I get to the truth of what is potentially happening behind my back? If I bring it up with her it will just be denied with the old 'wrong number' excuse. But the patterns and the previous history (see below) make me suspicious. Should I try to get one of the mystery callers on the phone and ask him point blank, `why are you calling this phone number (wifes cell phone)`? If they have something to hide and he decides to not play ball with me and also then decides to tell her, she'll know I'm onto the games being played behind my back and the games will just go DEEPER under the radar. There was a problem once before with this in the past. After I found stumbled on some non-sexual emails but which clearly revealed a history and a strong emotional connection, she disclosed an emotional infidelity which consisted of inappropriate phone calls and emails (all of which, except the few I found, were deleted). She says nothing physical happened, which I question due to the fact it was all kept so secret from me. I have never tried calling the other man, nor his wife but have considered it to get a the truth. I thought she had straightened up and flew right after that first time, but based on the new cell phone concerns, likely not. But how can I get the truth when it is all so hidden from me? Does anyone have any experience they can share with a similar case... I am watching the home computer and nothing untoward is happening via emails or online... but the past history means she is probably very wary of using emails or online at home now... the previous (or current - I still dont know if I believe it is broken off - maybe, but who knows) other man is in the computer industry... thanks for any responses, I'm worried sick....
Nevermind Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Hello, first of all I am very sorry you are facing this. It is very hard, and if any of your suspicions will prove correct then it will become harder. How you should go about this depends mainly on the charactre of your wife. Do you think she would come clean if you plain out asked her if she had an affair? Do you think you will be able to believe her? Will the two of you agree to marriage counceling? An affair, no matter if emotional oder pysical, is a heavy blow to each relationship. If something similar happened before it could mean that a pattern has been established were your wife seeks to see her (emotional) needs fulfilled by someone outside the marriage. You need to decide if you want to work on it (together) or end it in divorce. If you don't trust your wife at all, and need hard proof there are certain things you can try. A keylogger on the computer will tell you if she uses any e-mail adresses you don't know etc. Call her at lunch and try to make more things on times when she was usually on her own...watch her reaction. If she is uncomfortable then you might be up to something.
Bryanp Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I am sorry but it seems like she up to doing it again. I would maybe have her call the number with you on the other line and write down what you want her to say. If she refuses to do so then you probably have your answer. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.
Author Kosh Posted July 22, 2008 Author Posted July 22, 2008 A keylogger is in place and no secret emails addresses are being used from the home computer. It did get me access to passwords and I was able to dig through emails and social networking site messages. Found some fliratious emails from the period when the other emotional affair was going on. Nothing sexual but definitely a connection and some fliratious talk to men I've never met before and haven't and hadn't been told about. This includes in almost all cases the suggestion to meeting in person. Again, me (the husband) is not mentioned in any of these emails nor in the suggested meetings. I have no idea if these meetings ever took place or not. We have been in Marriage counselling since February. Some interesting and productive issues have come up. However as a basic first step, I don't know if I can forgive what has transpired or ever be confident that no secrets are being kept. So how can you have a relationship without that basic foundation?! I can see from the computer that all flirty chatter has stopped. But the strange phone numbers on her cell phone are indicating maybe she is just being more careful about how contact is being made? I can't monitor or see the logs of her work phone. Or if she's using a pay phone, I'll never know.... I've been so heartbroken and angry over all of this. I wonder if a lawyer or PI can get to the identity of the owner of a cell phone. I know you can't look up a cell phone in a reverse directory, which sucks for me if I want to find out who these ghosts are. I am thinking of seeing a nasty lawyer to see what they can do for me. I realize there are very few legal avenues available to me to solve this or force the secrets to the surface. Still maybe a not so nice letter implying an imminent lawsuit/divorce proceeding sent to the other man / men, hinting at their or their wives (as applicable) potential statements may be taken may scare the crap out of them. A bluff to be sure. But if it is effective then it could be worth a shot. Using the power of suggestion to create nasty demons in their minds over what they might have to lose in all of this. After all, why should I be the only one twisted up with anxiety, depression, anger etc in all of this? Give the gift of giving, if you know what I mean. I think I've been too nice and accomodating in all this. Time to show everyone the nice doggie who has been put in the corner has some teeth and knows how to use them. After all, it should be my right to protect my interests even if those or someone closest to me is not watching out for them (or is, in fact, working against them). I'd be quiet about all of this until they call her up and say "OMG, what the hell is going on?!". Then I'd pour on the stupid vague explanations which I received, "Oh, I'm so confuuuused. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm so sooorrryyy... I just wanted to get to the truth, I never meant to hurt you... blah blah blah". Or saying 'hey you brought these guys into our relationship without my consent or knowledge. Now I have dealings with them through my lawyer which has nothing to do with you. Deal with it the way I've had to deal with your lies since (date of first emails)'. Healthy for the marriage? No, but since she's running around behind my back and potentially still making me a cockold, then there is no marriage as far as I am concerned... I'm sure all the above would be prohibitively expensive, but it is still cathartic to contemplate doing it. Now for the first time in my life I realize why people make irrational financial decisions in divorce proceedings (making lawyers rich in the process). Regarding having her make a scripted call in front of me as a silent witness. I like the idea except if it goes to voice mail (which will likely happen given my luck in this area) and she is colluding with the guy, she can secretly call him later and prepare him to say "sorry, you have the wrong number. I don't know you etc.". All the numbers I called from a payphone went right to voice mail. Of course, if the call is made from her cell, could be a different story. Also, the log of calls made indicate she never calls back to these numbers (but that doesn't stop them from coming in, weird..) Still lost and confused. Writing this out has been helpful, thanks for reading. Any comments, suggestions, tips, strategies, jokes, critisisms etc. welcomed...
luvstarved Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 How are the two of you getting along? If you say there is no marriage, then what the hell do you care what she does? I am sorry, but you are not presenting any stronger evidence than that she had some sort of flirtatious exchanges in the past. I agree they were foolish and misguided and disrespectful of you, but people do dumb stuff like that sometimes ... and it is not the same as a PA so your level of indignancy and vengeful attitude seems on the surface a bit over the top. For all I know, she IS having an affair but you don't seem to have any hard proof that this is going on and with the dead end results from the keylogger, there is at least some evidence that nothing is going on other than in your imagination. You know you CAN reverse lookup on cell phones for a fee, AFAIK. Yeah it is a cost, but less costly than PIs and lawyers...google it. Is there any chance this is a work contact? If so, you would feel pretty stupid and make it professionally awkward for her if you made a "why are you calling my wife?" call. I can understand your fear based on past behavior but you should be careful of how you proceed. I guess what bothers me the most is that your demeanor toward your wife seems more like hostility and resentment whether she is guilty or not. What are the best and worst case scenarios for you here? Are you invested in trying to have a happy marriage?
Author Kosh Posted July 23, 2008 Author Posted July 23, 2008 Thanks for the thoughts and ideas. I appreciate any input - positive or negative. Anything to get me thinking straight. FYI, the calls are coming in during 'booty call hour', between midnight and 2AM in most cases on Friday or Saturday nights. And these mystery cell calls after starting counselling.... I wish I could be a fly on the wall when we are apart to know what is really going on. You are right. I have to get the hostility and resentment reined in regardless of what she may or may not be doing. I am working on that (with a solo counsellor). Its just that I know enough with all this to make me realize how much I don't know and I fear how vulnerable that makes me. With the first affair (physical or non-physical, I don't know what to believe despite what I've been told), it's funny how you live life and then find yourself in a place that you are sure you didn't ask to be in and getting out of it is difficult at best or impossible at worst. Guess I'll just have to sit with this a while longer and see how it develops.... thanks for your input...
whichwayisup Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 FYI, the calls are coming in during 'booty call hour', between midnight and 2AM in most cases on Friday or Saturday nights. And these mystery cell calls after starting counselling.... Tell your marriage counsellor this.
Bryanp Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 If the roles were reversed do you honestly think your wife would put up with such disrespect from you? She has had an affair in the past and seems to have no problems having secret life. Having secret calls coming in at midnight? It seems that you are not getting much in this marriage so really what is the point. If you cannot trust your spouse then I simply do not see any point in continuing the marriage. Who wants to spend time trying to trap a spouse who is good at keeping a secret life behind your back. Life is too short to waste your time on this. See a lawyer about your various options. I wish you luck.
Owl Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 I think you've got more than enough to confront with already. She's looking to meet up with men in person. PERIOD. Everything else you've got beyond this is just gravy...she's already behaving WAY outside of acceptable bounds for marriage. Confront, and put an END to it. But...what do you WANT to come out of this? What changes will your wife have to make in order for you to rebuild your trust in her? How can she PROVE her honesty to you going forward. Have all of these things in mind...and then confront her during your marriage counseling with what's been going on, and what you want done about it. Beyond that, I'd suggest a voice activated digital recorder in her car, where it seems she might be calling these guys back or talking with them via payphone. I'd also suggest a GPS tracking system in her car as well. Again...that's if you want further proof...I think you've got more than enough already.
imagine Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Time to end the fairy tale. Tell her you have lost trust as a result of recent events. You are unable to plan your way forward because of these. You need assurances to stabilize your sanity and plan a course of action. Ask her whether she would be prepared to commit towards helping you achieve this. Ask her if she would take a lie detector test. If her response is negative: Game on. Snoop, steal, eavesdrop. Then document. You are affected, the family/marriage is affected. You are more than entitled to snoop. It is your responsibility and duty as a leader in the household who is concerned for his family to do this. And do it now!
Chinook Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Sorry, I'm gonna go against the grain here. From your first post you seemed concerned about your wife's behaviour and the impact upon your current situation. From your second post you seem to have her convicted, tried, found guilty and sentenced. I think you need to take a step back and decide for yourself what you want from your marriage and your wife. Then at that point you can decide how you proceed. If you can't be bothered and the marriage is over anyhow, if it was me... and no kids were involved, I would simply walk away. As Owl (wise Owl) says, you actually already DO have enough to confront. However, if you want to work at it, love your wife and want to rebuild your trust in each other - that's the hard part. What you want is likely to be at odds with what her behaviour is telling you. If it's over - don't hassle yourself with what she's doing, just end it. For you, if it isn't over - confront her and get to the point where she tells you either it's over or she's willing to do what it takes to keep it together. I don't envy you my friend. This situation sucks... trust me, I know. My ex had a life I knew nothing about.
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