More "guy weekend" b.s.

[Trialbyfire]

I can't help but find the irony in this thread and laugh.

 

It reminds me of politicians who stand up for what's "right" but do dick when push comes to shove!

[Star Gazer]

Star, you pride yourself on directness, but as far as I can see you restrict it to your tough love posturings with vulnerable, not-part-of-any-clique posters who have the temerity to admit to insecurity and problems in their relationships. This comment of yours strikes me as being full of the type of evasive bitchiness and passive aggression that you're so fond of accusing other posters of using.

 

First, I - unlike most people - can admit that I'm not innocent of b*tchiness, but I'm flatly NEVER passive aggressive. Secondly, EVERYONE here is vulnerable, you and I both. And with all due respect, my "tough love" and flat out b*tchy comments are USUALLY actually directed towards those people who I assume you include in your perceived "clique" (such as Touche and TBF , we've sparred hard with one another). They can verify this, or you can, simply by reading old threads. There's no "clique." This isn't high school.

 

I don't dislike you. I don't know you, and I haven't had that much in the way of dealings with you, either as Taramere or under my old username, so I don't have feelings either way. But I keep seeing you picking away at certain female board members. You go over the top with it and you seem bent on encouraging other female posters in on the action.

 

I'd like you to go back and read ALL of LB's threads and see my very heartfelt, thoughtful advice to her, and then tell me that I'm "picking on her." I'm just as sick of her B.S. over the past year as most people are with someone else on this board who refuses to take advice.

 

And I don't encourage anyone. EVERYONE here is free to come up with their own opinion. If they happen to agree with me, fine. But honestly, more often than not I'm the voice of dissention, as I'm not one to coddle...ever.

 

In real life, if a client doesn't trust you or the advice you give, what do you do? Do you lecture them about it and tell them they have issues? That they can't handle anything other than constant validation and enabling? Or do you simply bow out and say "if you don't have confidence in me, I can't advise or act for you further..."

 

Actually, yes. I tell them flat out that they will lose and why, and advise them to stop being so stubborn and look at the forrest instead of the trees or pinecones. I remind them that as hard as we may try, there are no guarantees in life, and that the world doesn't always work the way they want and expect it to. Then, I cover my ass with correspondence and other documentation, and THEN I back out. Just as I have here, and with someone else on this board.

 

I've never had a client walk away, by the way.

 

It's counter-productive to berate people for not trusting you. If other people finding it hard to trust you is so upsetting that you have to nag at and humiliate them as a punishment - or accuse them of having every issue/using every defence mechanism in the book, then that's a reliable sign that you haven't developed the patience, maturity or emotional detachment to be an effective helper.

 

In her heart of heart, LB knows I'm right. She's admitted she's selfish. I don't think she doesn't trust me.

 

But thank you for commenting on my apparent inability to be an effective helper. I'll be sure to avoid responding to your threads, as I wouldn't want to waste my time.

[Touche]

It's true, TBF.

 

I was looking some other of the OP's threads and some of the same people who are being attacked for being too harsh or whatever other nonsense, were the FIRST people to congratulate and give pats on the back when OP got her job, etc.

 

Those who are stepping in now and berating were nowhere to be seen...either during the OP's good times nor her not so good times.

 

How self-serving and presumptuous.

[Star Gazer]

One word ...... jealousy!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

WTF would we have to be jealous of? I won't say what I'm thinking of right now as I learned it privately, but trust me... there's nothing to be jealous of. ((shudder))

 

Puleeezeeee, Lishy. You're just grasping at straws.

[Trialbyfire]

How self-serving and presumptuous.

I'm impressed! It embodies exactly what's happening in this thread!

[twice_shy]

Ah... I figured he'd have an issue with that.

 

Now he is trying to pull her tongue with the "how extremely hot I am he couldn't blame them" comment.

 

It is not insecurity, he wants to know what happened. And how was it that she "had a blast" at the bar.

 

Well that is really none of the boyfriend's concern now is it? Him and his friends wanted her gone. He didn't want her around, too bad for him.

 

She can have a blast at the bar if she wants. Isn't any different, if not more innocent, than his weekend in Vegas.

 

If he doesn't like it, then he should refrain from such activities too now shouldn't he?

[grogster]

Liking and respecting both Star and Tara, I hope that peace and harmony return.

 

If not, both of you remain two of my LS favorites.

[Nevermind]

For what it's worth, I was with LaurieBell on the original issue, but I found that changing plans so shortly before the weekend and with (from what I read on this thread) self-serving attitude was nothing that would help her relationship and could set a bad example for the future. I also don't think (still) that she would have felt great, or that anybody on this forum would have thought good about it, if the situation were reversed. If the way in which I said it, was bullying or hurtful to LaurieBell, then I apologize for that. But you go to a public forum to hear different takes on things and therefore, I won't apologize for my opinion nor take it back.

 

I didn't get the fun part of the pages full of pram jokes and it seemed a bit disrespectful to turn this thread into a kindergarten, but I also don't think it was done to hurt LaurieBell. However, I wouldn't appreciate it in one of my threads, so I understand where the critique for that is coming from.

 

Most of the people who didn't agree with Laurie and critized her attitude have been writing on her threads for over a year. They invested time and thoughts. So, I would not say that they ganged up on LB to hurt her. They have shown on numerous occasions that they are happy when things go well for LB. Maybe things got out of hand (I take the blame for my part) but let's not blow things out of proportion. This isn't highschool.

[Touche]

Just wanted to say..you can still like and respect someone while calling them on their BS.

[Star Gazer]

Most of the people who didn't agree with Laurie and critized her attitude have been writing on her threads for over a year. They invested time and thoughts. So, I would not say that they ganged up on LB to hurt her. They have shown on numerous occasions that they are happy when things go well for LB. Maybe things got out of hand (I take the blame for my part) but let's not blow things out of proportion. This isn't highschool.

 

Precisely. And we've helped her FIND those good times. To now say we're bashing her when we become frustrated at watching her potentially destroy what she's worked so hard to develop is just ludicrous.

[Trialbyfire]

Just wanted to say..you can still like and respect someone while calling them on their BS.

But then, the Righteous will cast you down with lightening bolts unless you use "there, there"!

[Star Gazer]

Just wanted to say..you can still like and respect someone while calling them on their BS.

 

So true, hence why you've called me on mine on occasion!!

 

I mean, I don't know how many times I have to repeat: "I truly like LB, think she's a lovely person, BUT this behavior is insane..."

 

Even her own BF tells her he loves her while calling her on her B.S. The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

[Touche]

So true, hence why you've called me on mine on occasion!!

 

I mean, I don't know how many times I have to repeat: "I truly like LB, think she's a lovely person, BUT this behavior is insane..."

 

Even her own BF tells her he loves her while calling her on her B.S. The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

 

Yes, that was exactly my point.

 

I called you on your BS? What BS? Ok, now go get us some take-out!:laugh:

 

But then, the Righteous will cast you down with lightening bolts unless you use "there, there"

 

Yep. It's ridiculous. What are we, a bunch of babies who need coddling? (Wait...don't answer that.)

[Taramere]

Anyway, I just don't see where all this outrage is coming from.

 

Can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I'm commenting is covered here. I think anyone who levels unapologetically tough love and criticism at others must be prepared to accept that their approach may well meet with criticism or tough love from other people. Or risk accusations of hypocrisy.

 

Look Touche - I don't mind if you want to talk about me being on my high horse. I can see exactly where you're coming from. I know it sounds self-righteous. If I racked my brains for 3 hours I might have been able to present it in a way that sounded somewhat less self-righteous. Anyway, I had a strong wish to comment on what I saw here (just as TBF and SG have had a strong wish to comment on LB's situation) - and this was the best way I could think of to make my point emphatically.

[Nevermind]

Taramere: you have a right to comment as well as everybody else. I read your replies to this thread and reread my posts to LaurieBell. I can see where you got the impression, but I think you're wrong about the motive. It is always good to get feedback on your behaviour, and I'll try to think about it in the future.

 

However, this thread is extremely off-topic and I really wonder why it hasn't been closed yet. This discussion could be led elsewhere or be ended.

[Taramere]

Liking and respecting both Star and Tara, I hope that peace and harmony return.

 

If not, both of you remain two of my LS favorites.

 

That's nice of you to say, Grogster. I don't see any reason why peace and harmony can't return. As you know, Star and I are both trained to deal with and manage conflict.

 

Nevermind - I take the point that I might be wrong about the motive, although my thinking at this stage is less about people having motives, more about the way drama seldom tends to bring out the best in people.

[Trialbyfire]

Can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I'm commenting is covered here. I think anyone who levels unapologetically tough love and criticism at others must be prepared to accept that their approach may well meet with criticism or tough love from other people. Or risk accusations of hypocrisy.

 

Look Touche - I don't mind if you want to talk about me being on my high horse. I can see exactly where you're coming from. I know it sounds self-righteous. If I racked my brains for 3 hours I might have been able to present it in a way that sounded somewhat less self-righteous. Anyway, I had a strong wish to comment on what I saw here (just as TBF and SG have had a strong wish to comment on LB's situation) - and this was the best way I could think of to make my point emphatically.

I've personally seen you give tough love and use mockery. Speaking of hypocrisy. That you choose to posture within this thread, makes me seriously consider/examine what your agenda is.

[Star Gazer]

Can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I'm commenting is covered here. I think anyone who levels unapologetically tough love and criticism at others must be prepared to accept that their approach may well meet with criticism or tough love from other people. Or risk accusations of hypocrisy.

 

Oh, I totally get that. Saying, "Now, don't be mean..." Okay, I get that. Totally.

 

But wouldn't you agree that it is in and of itself hypocritical to bash and bully the so-called bashers? I speak not necessarily to you, but to people like Lishy (who I've had to have at least 50 of her posts removed from my threads because of how outright cruel she was towards me), or Shadowplay (who, when she doens't like what I've had to say, tells my I'm jealous of her because - in her opinion - as far as appearance goes I'm "*just* above average), as well as others, who are critical of those who give harsh advice. Then hypocrisy and childishness in this regard is astounding.

[Taramere]

Oh, I totally get that. Saying, "Now, don't be mean..." Okay, I get that. Totally.

 

But wouldn't you agree that it is in and of itself hypocritical to bash and bully the so-called bashers? I speak not necessarily to you, but to people like Lishy (who I've had to have at least 50 of her posts removed from my threads because of how outright cruel she was towards me), or Shadowplay (who, when she doens't like what I've had to say, tells my I'm jealous of her because - in her opinion - as far as appearance goes I'm "*just* above average), as well as others, who are critical of those who give harsh advice. Then hypocrisy and childishness in this regard is astounding.

 

I think, Star, that anyone - once they get into a discussion like this - is going to find themselves saying and doing things that could fairly be described as hypocrisy. It's an impossible tag to avoid really. What's that saying...."to avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing...."

 

And yes, I'd be pissed off if someone told me I was average looking compared to them. I hope I'd deal with it in an effective way, but I don't know. Sometimes I can be handle pretty challenging stuff in a rational and adult way, other times I find myself consciously thinking "right. I'm going to handle this badly/I'm going to be rude and obnoxious. And I'm going to enjoy it!" Doing that usually ends poorly for me, because I tend to get remorseful afterwards.

[Touche]

Can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I'm commenting is covered here. I think anyone who levels unapologetically tough love and criticism at others must be prepared to accept that their approach may well meet with criticism or tough love from other people. Or risk accusations of hypocrisy.

 

On that we can agree. I'm not seeing the hypocrisy though. Those who have been accused of administering "tough love" have been met with criticism, yes. But they've stood by what they've said. I didn't see them stomping off in a huff.

 

Look Touche - I don't mind if you want to talk about me being on my high horse. I can see exactly where you're coming from. I know it sounds self-righteous. If I racked my brains for 3 hours I might have been able to present it in a way that sounded somewhat less self-righteous.

 

[/B]You mean the same way as some might have had to rack their brains to come up with a "nicer" less critical and offensive (to some) version of their message to LB - but didn't?

[/b]

Anyway, I had a strong wish to comment on what I saw here (just as TBF and SG have had a strong wish to comment on LB's situation) - and this was the best way I could think of to make my point emphatically.

 

Yes, and you've made it and you have every right to have made it. Just as those who advised LB had every right to advise her in the way they thought was best.

[Star Gazer]

I think, Star, that anyone - once they get into a discussion like this - is going to find themselves saying and doing things that could fairly be described as hypocrisy. It's an impossible tag to avoid really. What's that saying...."to avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing...."

 

And yes, I'd be pissed off if someone told me I was average looking compared to them. I hope I'd deal with it in an effective way, but I don't know. Sometimes I can be handle pretty challenging stuff in a rational and adult way, other times I find myself consciously thinking "right. I'm going to handle this badly/I'm going to be rude and obnoxious. And I'm going to enjoy it!" Doing that usually ends poorly for me, because I tend to get remorseful afterwards.

 

See, that's the difference between you and I. I don't feel remorseful when I post what I think, and then have my appearance attacked (or am told I'm jealous). I just laugh it off.

 

I stand by every single thing I've ever said to LB, and in every manner I have done so. The girl needs a virtual slap upside the head sometimes.

 

I can dish it, AND I can take it. What I don't take well is when certain posters respond to my plights for help clearly out of spite, as Shadow and Lishy do, and I now suspect LB will.

[luvmy2ns]

What I don't take well is when certain posters respond to my plights for help clearly out of spite, as Shadow and Lishy do, and I now suspect LB will.

 

Let's hope LB doesn't go that route. That would be a very childish and counter productive thing to do. For everyone on this site.

[Taramere]

Liking and respecting both Star and Tara, I hope that peace and harmony return.

 

If not, both of you remain two of my LS favorites.

 

Just to hang another post onto yours, grogster, I'd like to express respect for Star for being able to take criticism in her stride as well as dishing it out. That strikes me as strong, honourable behaviour, and I'm sure it serves her well in court.

[Star Gazer]

Just to hang another post onto yours, grogster, I'd like to express respect for Star for being able to take criticism in her stride as well as dishing it out. That strikes me as strong, honourable behaviour, and I'm sure it serves her well in court.

 

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Lishy]

Oh, I totally get that. Saying, "Now, don't be mean..." Okay, I get that. Totally.

 

But wouldn't you agree that it is in and of itself hypocritical to bash and bully the so-called bashers? I speak not necessarily to you, but to people like Lishy (who I've had to have at least 50 of her posts removed from my threads because of how outright cruel she was towards me), or Shadowplay (who, when she doens't like what I've had to say, tells my I'm jealous of her because - in her opinion - as far as appearance goes I'm "*just* above average), as well as others, who are critical of those who give harsh advice. Then hypocrisy and childishness in this regard is astounding.

 

If I called the bolded section 'tough love' and told you I only said what I did because I care, would that have made you feel better?

 

You Have done to LB exactly what I did to you - You can dish it out but you need to learn to take it! LB has not had one nasty, mean tough loved post taken down has she? She has taken it on the chin and that is more than could be said of you in the same position Star!

 

Like I said.... People in glass houses!!!!!!!!