I'm going to make this process difficult

[Simon Leon]

I think the time for those discussions are past.

 

I am going to focus on moving forward either with or without her....and she will see the difference.

 

I'm not the same guy she left 8wks ago. I'm surprising myself.

[Angel1111]

Then why didn't you just tell him so and go to counseling with him?

 

Why do women play this reverse psychology game?

 

Why would you assume that we didn't go to counseling? We went for over 6 mos. And did I really need to tell him that he needed to talk to me like someone he cared about and respected in order to get me back? Really??? No, sorry, I didn't divulge that secret piece of information to him, so, yeah, I guess I was playing reverse psychology games with him.

[n9688m]

And did I really need to tell him that he needed to talk to me like someone he cared about and respected in order to get me back? Really??? No, sorry, I didn't divulge that secret piece of information to him.

 

Actually you did need to tell him that. Once you separated you cannot reasonably expect him to show positive feelings towards you - the act of separation made you defendants in a legal suit. If you wanted to call that off you should have let him know.

[Angel1111]

Actually you did need to tell him that. Once you separated you cannot reasonably expect him to show positive feelings towards you - the act of separation made you defendants in a legal suit. If you wanted to call that off you should have let him know.

 

I have an expression: "You don't know someone until you marry them. But you don't REALLY know them until you divorce them."

 

People show their true colors and character in those situations. I do understand that he was pissed off and I understand why he was pissed off but, the truth is, he had so much time to fix it - probably over a year - before I ever walked out the door that, by then, there was really no excuse. When I left, I was certain that things were not fixable so I didn't have second thoughts about stopping the divorce. All I'm saying is that, even then, he still had the ability to get me back but he never made the attempt.

[n9688m]

People show their true colors and character in those situations.

 

Not at all. Divorce is a time of extreme stress and frequent irrational emotionally-driven behavior.

 

When I left, I was certain that things were not fixable so I didn't have second thoughts about stopping the divorce. All I'm saying is that, even then, he still had the ability to get me back but he never made the attempt.

 

Well there you have it - if it was not fixable then there was no reason for him to behave otherwise.

[Angel1111]

Not at all. Divorce is a time of extreme stress and frequent irrational emotionally-driven behavior.

 

Well there you have it - if it was not fixable then there was no reason for him to behave otherwise.

 

Yes, I understand that extreme stress can cause irrational behavior, but if that behavior goes on long-term, then that's just an excuse. I guess women just think differently - or maybe it's me - but if my spouse told me that if I continued to do certain things that were unacceptable to him and he'd leave me if I didn't stop, then I'd stop doing them if I cared about my marriage. And if I chose not to stop, I wouldn't be dumb enough to act shocked that he left me. Nor would I be so pissed off about it that I'd act even worse for the next 2 or 3 yrs.

 

It was not fixable in my mind because I could not control his behavior. He, on the other hand, had complete control over what he did. So, no, it was not fixable from my end, but it was fixable from his end. He made his choice, he just didn't want to deal with the consequences.

[n9688m]

Yes, I understand that extreme stress can cause irrational behavior, but if that behavior goes on long-term, then that's just an excuse. I guess women just think differently - or maybe it's me - but if my spouse told me that if I continued to do certain things that were unacceptable to him and he'd leave me if I didn't stop, then I'd stop doing them if I cared about my marriage. And if I chose not to stop, I wouldn't be dumb enough to act shocked that he left me. Nor would I be so pissed off about it that I'd act even worse for the next 2 or 3 yrs.

 

That all makes perfect sense and is quite reasonable as long as you did in fact communicate your concerns to him as clearly as you describe above as well as in counseling.

 

That this thread is about and what I am also alluding to is the "walkaway wife" syndrome where the wife at best thinks she communicated her concerns clearly to the husband but in fact the request for divorce is the first time the husband heard many of the concerns.

[Simon Leon]

I never heard one mention of divorce or seperation....ever.....until that fateful night.

 

I have a quick question about hope.

 

When should one give up hope for a future bonding with your ex.

 

I realize that you need to move on in order to move forward....but hope is a different kettle of fish.

[n9688m]

I realize that you need to move on in order to move forward....but hope is a different kettle of fish.

 

Well surely none of us are experts or we wouldn't be posting here with these shared problems of ours!

 

But it seems from many stories that to the extent a small chance of reconciliation exists, that chance opens up paradoxically after you have given up all hope.

[Angel1111]

That all makes perfect sense and is quite reasonable as long as you did in fact communicate your concerns to him as clearly as you describe above as well as in counseling.

 

That this thread is about and what I am also alluding to is the "walkaway wife" syndrome where the wife at best thinks she communicated her concerns clearly to the husband but in fact the request for divorce is the first time the husband heard many of the concerns.

 

I was extremely clear.

 

I really don't know why someone would leave without giving a person any kind of warning or a chance to make things right. That's incredibly unfair. I can see why Simon is still reeling. I would be, too.

[Angel1111]

I never heard one mention of divorce or seperation....ever.....until that fateful night.

 

I have a quick question about hope.

 

When should one give up hope for a future bonding with your ex.

 

I realize that you need to move on in order to move forward....but hope is a different kettle of fish.

 

I tend to never give up hope and I'm not sure it's a choice one way or another. I give up hope only when I've gotten the result I wanted, or when it no longer matters to me anymore. That may be the way it's going to be for you too.

[Gunny376]

I was extremely clear.

 

I really don't know why someone would leave without giving a person any kind of warning or a chance to make things right. That's incredibly unfair. I can see why Simon is still reeling. I would be, too.

 

Ha! :laugh:

 

Happens everyday. I've been divorced for 18 years, and to this day I cannot tell you the reason why? The best and the most that I could ever get out of her was that I was a "work-aholic" (I was a freaking carrer Marine stationed primarly at a recruit depot for nine years as a marksmanship coach, the Primary Marksmanship Instructor, a junior DI, senior DI and ultimately as a Serie Chief Dril Instructor) ~ then got shipped to Okinawa Japan ~ then to Kuwait during the first Gulf War.

 

I even asked her why she divorced me after she had married to DH No.# 3, and she told me that I needed to change, but never speficied such during a 12 year marriage.

 

NOW that I've done some reading and thanks to such forumns such as LS, and the wisdom of Lady Jane and many, many others, I can see where I put too much emphasis on the wrong things and not enough on the right things?

[n9688m]

I really don't know why someone would leave without giving a person any kind of warning or a chance to make things right. That's incredibly unfair. I can see why Simon is still reeling. I would be, too.

 

I couldn't agree more. It happened to me too - literally one day we were planning our lives 10+ years into the future and the next day she wants a divorce. And from reading this forum, that's not unusual.

[Simon Leon]

I found out about 1 week after she left that she had started seeing a therypst a month earlier.

 

The therypst told her she had self-esteme issues. It could be that after working with the therypst she decided that her problems could be fixed by leaving the marrage.

 

I'm not sure all therypst's are good for marrage counceling. I feel that some try to concentrate on individual grouth and development.....and that isn't always good for the partnership.

Marrage is a team sport...not an individual competition.

[n9688m]

I'm not sure all therypst's are good for marrage counceling. I feel that some try to concentrate on individual grouth and development.....and that isn't always good for the partnership.

Marrage is a team sport...not an individual competition.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[imagine]

I found out about 1 week after she left that she had started seeing a therapist a month earlier.

 

The therapist told her she had self-esteem issues. It could be that after working with the therapist she decided that her problems could be fixed by leaving the marriage.

 

I'm not sure all therapist's are good for marriage counseling. I feel that some try to concentrate on individual growth and development.....and that isn't always good for the partnership.

Marriage is a team sport...not an individual competition.

 

I think that that Owl expressed this best on another thread that individual counselors (IC) are paid to satisfy the individuals needs primarily rather than tackle a marriage.

 

Regarding your previous post regarding self image: This seems good that you have that image. You will project a confident, attractive person. Your good lady needs to experience that. I would remind you that this image attracted your woman but did not necessarily keep her.

 

The fact that your wife had to see a therapist is an indication that she could not/ did not get any satisfaction from you as her husband. This may imply that communication skills need urgent brushing. This may not all be laid at your feet. Sometimes a woman may try communicate through a strange language of Womanspeak which we men are expected to understand, but seldom do. Attempt to understand it. I have found that body language is also a key element of this tongue.

 

I encourage you to pursue this woman. She sounds pro-active, caring and honest. She is, I suspect, tired. If given the opportunity, listen, use active listening techniques. I think she needs to vent. Encourage pro-marriage councilors if further counseling is necessary.

 

I agree with the poster that recommended not to overdo it with the ILY's and grand gestures of love at this time. These could be construed as manipulative.

 

As for the documentation that your wife has requested: Personally, I would at no stage help facilitate divorce proceedings. Kind of mixed signals, don't you think?

 

Man! There is a lot of really good info out there, but sadly for you, so little time. I admire your sincerity and desire to take the high road in restoring your relationship. I will continue to watch this thread as a priority.

[Angel1111]

I couldn't agree more. It happened to me too - literally one day we were planning our lives 10+ years into the future and the next day she wants a divorce. And from reading this forum, that's not unusual.

 

Well, first of all, I'm very sorry that happened to you. I can't imagine.

 

I thought something like this was very rare. I stand corrected.

[dgiirl]

Well, first of all, I'm very sorry that happened to you. I can't imagine.

 

I thought something like this was very rare. I stand corrected.

 

It's not that rare at all. I'm another story. My exh came home on valentines night and said he wanted a divorce and moved out the very next day. He never once made any efforts to fix our marriage and this was the very first time anyone in his life knew he was unhappy, me, his friends, and his family were all shocked. He admitted to wanting a divorce for 3 years prior, but never said anything because he didnt want to hurt me. He said he tried to make one effort once, but the discussion was how he felt burnt out and how I need to do more chores around the house, which I did. The other times I brought up the problems in our marriage, he got offended that I suggested we were living like roommates, or he reassured me everything was fine. He made the environment difficult to resolve any problems. I was afraid to talk to him, and he simply was never honest. Then he met someone and he left.

 

Regardless of the gender, walkaway spouses do exist, and for me, these types of people are simply cowards. After 3+ years, I'm very happy to no longer be married to this man. I loved him with all my heart, but I realize now that the relationship was never balanced. For someone to do what he did, it just shows pure disrespect. And life is way too short to waste it on someone who disrespects you.

[Simon Leon]

Well...from my very limited research, it looks live very few couples successfully get back together after the seperate.

 

I quickly did the once over of Homer's book and it has a lot of unconventional strategies on how to deal with relationship problems. I don't know what kind of success people have with this style of communication.

 

I'm going to play it by ear and see how it goes.

 

Wife e-mailed me today thanking me for a great day on Saturday. She will contact me again later in the week (probably just to collect my paycheck).

 

Number 1 task is to give up all needyness and ILY's.

 

The good thing is we are hugging a lot whenever we see each other (real hugs), but zero kissing, but that's fine by me. I hope the hugs arn't guilt driven.

 

She seems to be warmer to me then she has been in the last 2 months.

 

I just hope the therapist didn't poisen her. It's kinda strange that she asked for a seperation after about 4 visits to her therapist.

 

When I asked her whether she had been planning on asking for a seperation, she said it just popped out...so I don't really think it was something she had been comptemplating for a long time.

 

It's probably conter-productive to Homers recommendations...but I would like to ask her to stop seeing the therapist for a couple of weeks and see if her feelings change in any way. What are your thoughts on that?????

[Chrome Barracuda]

I think the best thing is to focus on you, lovingly detach. You have control over yourself and your own actions. her actions indicate she doesnt want to be married. She could be a WAW or MLC. who knows but in the end why do you even care?

 

I understand she's your wife and all. but her actions tell you different. She wants her independance and yet she probably wants you. most likely as a fall back net.

 

If she doesnt want to come back because she wants to move on, are you prepared to accept that?

 

I think it's time to focus on your happiness without her. Stop the hugs and the close contact. let her initiate. let her contact you. dont share anything with her. protect your heart.

[Simon Leon]

If she really wants to move on ....I will accept that. I have little choice and will not go back to any pleading or negotiating.

 

I am already making initial plans regarding the finances, thinking about which neighbourhoods I want to move to, what furniture..etc I will take etc.

 

We will both walk away with a tidy sum and good retirement savings. I have been a very conservitive saver/invester our entire marrage and we are well setup with no kids (spend all our time travelling overseas..no time for kids).

 

It's almost a win/win situation. I win if she comes back (maybe thats a win) and I win by being a well setup single guy who still has his looks, charm and worldly experience....plus a cool down-under accent.

[Chrome Barracuda]

What????

 

You got no kids??

 

Then what the hell are you waiting for go out there and enjoy your life!!!!

 

Life is too short to be with a woman who cant make up her mind!

 

I been there and trust me I wish I would have let go sooner I wasted so much time dwelling on a dumb bitch when i could have been out there finding a great woman to be with!

[Angel1111]

Well...from my very limited research, it looks live very few couples successfully get back together after the seperate.

 

I quickly did the once over of Homer's book and it has a lot of unconventional strategies on how to deal with relationship problems. I don't know what kind of success people have with this style of communication.

 

I'm going to play it by ear and see how it goes.

 

Wife e-mailed me today thanking me for a great day on Saturday. She will contact me again later in the week (probably just to collect my paycheck).

 

Number 1 task is to give up all needyness and ILY's.

 

The good thing is we are hugging a lot whenever we see each other (real hugs), but zero kissing, but that's fine by me. I hope the hugs arn't guilt driven.

 

She seems to be warmer to me then she has been in the last 2 months.

 

I just hope the therapist didn't poisen her. It's kinda strange that she asked for a seperation after about 4 visits to her therapist.

 

When I asked her whether she had been planning on asking for a seperation, she said it just popped out...so I don't really think it was something she had been comptemplating for a long time.

 

It's probably conter-productive to Homers recommendations...but I would like to ask her to stop seeing the therapist for a couple of weeks and see if her feelings change in any way. What are your thoughts on that?????

 

Who's Homer?

 

No, you may not get back together but that remains to be seen. Personally, I think the reason reconciliation rarely works is because people don't ever figure out what the problems were in the first place. So after a month or two of being back together, it's the same old stuff all over again. Second time around, must less tolerance.

 

I'm not sure why she would think that she has any rights to your paycheck at this point. What's that about?

 

No!!! Absolutely do not even HINT that you think she should stop seeing the therapist. She will translate your words into something like this: "Honey, you're really sweet and all but you aren't smart enough to think for yourself and this therapist is just putting ideas in your tiny little head. If I'm going to convince you to do what I want you to do, you need to stop seeing this person."

 

I think you can see where it would go from there.

 

For that matter, don't suggest to her what she should or should not be doing, unless she specifically asks for your opinion. If you don't like what she's doing, then don't like it. But keep it to yourself. You are not her dad and she doesn't need the police watching her.

 

And if it makes you feel any better, I'm sure the therapist had nothing to do with her leaving except to help her clarify for herself what she wanted to do. I'm sure she didn't go into the therapist's office thinking how crazy she was about her marriage, and then was somehow convinced otherwise. I'd bet money on that.

[Simon Leon]

I'm not sure why she would think that she has any rights to your paycheck at this point. What's that about?

 

 

We still have a mortgage and associated house expences that need to be paid.

Can't do in only on the one income ....so we are still pooling our salaries to cover joint expenses until this is finalized.

If we don't continue to pool resources....we will probably go into forclosue....and that wouldn't be good for either of us.

 

We both need to be responsible for the joint debts/expenses that we incurred before the seperation.

We are still paying into our joint retirement accounts, savings accounts from our pooled salaries.

 

We are both fiscally responsible....and I trust that she won't do anything underhanded at all.

I have control of our mutual funds/brokerage account/money market accounts....so it would be counter productive for her to do anything stupid (but I trust that she never would).

 

She said that she is thinking of lending some money from her parents to help cover the costs of her getting an apartment for the first 6mths. They can easily help cover her in this situation.

[n9688m]

I am still puzzled Simon.

 

It sounds as if you clearly still love your wife and want to reconcile. And you seem quite reasonably interested in doing whatever would achieve that.

 

You said that a big part of your separation is your lack of sex drive for a year. And you said that was related to depression.

 

So why not tell your wife you hope to be treated for the depression and ask that she reconsider the separation while you see how that works out?

 

This seems like a potentially "fixable" situation and hopefully she would have enough compassion to realize how depression may have affected you recently and that it can be corrected. Why give up on the marriage before trying this?