Angel1111 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Thanks Whichwayisup. Thats what I'm going to try to do. Easier said then done....but I have no other choice. I am the best catch out of any of the guys I know.....even her friends say that they would go for me (they are being honest as friends...they never would go for me, and I would not have them since they are our friends). I honestly don't know where she can find someone better then me (this is not a time for modesty)...but that dosn't help my current situation. We have had such a fun life together....it will be difficult for her to reflect on anything from the past 11 yrs without being reminded of how much I was a possitive influence in it. Not to put you down because you really do seem like a great guy, but in her mind you're not a great catch right now. It's important to be aware of your good qualities but you also need to look at the fact that something happened that completely blindsided you and caused your wife to detach and walk away. This is very serious. Unless she's a total cold-hearted witch who enjoys this kind of thing, then I'm guessing that something happened to make her think that leaving was her only option. You must look at that if you want to move toward fixing this. You may have been happy in your marriage, but she was not and you can't ignore that fact. When I left my son's dad, one of the things he said to me later about why he thought our marriage failed was that he was "too busy being the perfect husband". Which told me he didn't have a clue as to why I left, and that nothing I said sunk in. I can't tell you how infuriating it was to hear him say that. But, he alienates most people around him to this day, even his family, and doesn't understand that either. I doubt that you do that but all I'm saying is that if you hang on to this idea that there wasn't anything going on in your marriage that was THAT serious, you're going to lose her completely. It was THAT serious to her. She may know that you love her, but she may not know that you desire her. She probably thinks you love her as a friend, a buddy, a wife, but not a lover. Not having sex with your spouse for a year is a real slap in the face. Like the other person said, it's enough to destroy a marriage. If she knew you were having physical problems, that's one thing. But it may be that she either didn't believe you, or she was insulted that you didn't think it was important enough to take steps to do something about it. I'm not saying this is your fault but you need to find out what your part was in this and figure out if it can be fixed. Just because your wife left doesn't mean she isn't in pain. Very few people walk away from a marriage not feeling extremely sad and disappointed about it. They just feel there is no other option. The fact that she's losing so much weight tells me that she is probably in a great deal of pain over this. I think it's encouraging, though, that she hasn't filed for divorce yet (at least I don't recall you saying that she had). And even if the two of you aren't functioning as a couple, you can still do things to bring her back, if that's what you want. The fact that she hasn't cut off all communication and is agreeable to meeting with you once a week is a very good place to start. I'm glad you decided to bring the papers back home. Even before you said that, I found it encouraging that you left yourself an out by not destroying them in the first place. It showed a lot of character, even though you were hurting a great deal.
Woggle Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Maybe.....but I dont know why I would be better off without her. She is a great chick. I think it must have been my fault she fell out of love with me....not hers. A walkaway does not qualify as a great chick. What she showed you before this was a lie and you need to stop loving a lie. It is not your fault also. There are millions of men going through the same thing. It is the state of marriage these days so just get this over with and forget about her.
Author Simon Leon Posted July 20, 2008 Author Posted July 20, 2008 We had sex during the year....infact during the last couple of months it was about 2-3 times per week. There was a period during the year when it wasn't happening. She tried to initiate it...went to bed early....but I stayed up and worked, etc. I'm sure you are 100% correct....since this is what she confided to one of our very close mutual friends. I don't know how to even try to correct this huge failure on my part. It might be too late.
TrustInYourself Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Ok... She came over at around 11am to our home. Had coffee for about and hour...then we made sandwiches for lunch...then we went bowling for the afternoon....finished at about 4pm. We had a good talk....(I mostly did the talking over coffee) and I told her that I am still totally in love with her and that I miss her very much. She was apologetic for the hurt I'm going through...but is not intending on changing her mind with the seperation. She is planning on lending some money from her parents to finance getting an apartment for the next 6mths. We are communicating and getting on really well and had a fun afternoon together. We are both looking real good since we are working out a lot. It's such a shame that we can't get this sorted out. I told her that I didn't really understand her reasons that she had previously told me for leaving the marrage. She didn't really have much to say about that. She had previously told me the following. 1- I didn't do enough around the house. (true) 2- I don't have enough friends and she feels responsible for being my closest friend. (I feel this a poor reason) 3- We have different values. (we have exactly the same values) 4- I didn't show her enough affection during the last 12mths of our marrage. (true) I don't think any of this couldn't be worked out by good communication and counciling. She just seems to want out. We have never had more then 8 days on NC since she left 8 wks ago. I told her that I'm hurt by the fact that she never initiates any contact wiht me....it's always me contacting her. She said that she would start contacting me...starting with calling me in the next couple of days. She said that is is getting a lot more busy with work (this is true) and that we could block out every Wednesday evening to catch up. I don't know if this is wise. Will this just drag out my broken heart even more. Can I ever get over someone I am still madly in love with????????? Sometimes love sucks. Whats hard is that we still get on really well and have fun together. We have been married over 10 yrs and this is f**king hard for me to deal with as I love her very very much. Yeah, it's hard. I feel for you and understand completely. Keep this in mind though. You guys are still hanging out. She's even willing to contact you and talk with you and spend time with you. She values your company and you shouldn't just take that for granted. Use those thoughts to kill all the neediness and sense of loss you feel. Telling her how much you love her and miss her and don't understand and asking for explanations will only make you come off as a needy, weak person. That's highly unattractive and counterproductive. She's given you some information to work with. Take some time to reflect on yourself and build on yourself. There are steps to reclaiming the man inside that your wife once loved. Start taking those steps. Stop investing in the marriage and start investing into yourself. Step away, accept her decision, and move forward with your own life. I'm not suggesting you give up on your marriage. I'm suggesting you build on yourself for the time being and give her time to consider her feelings and what she wants. She wanted this separation, so give it to her because you love and respect her. Best wishes.
Angel1111 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Yeah, it's hard. I feel for you and understand completely. Keep this in mind though. You guys are still hanging out. She's even willing to contact you and talk with you and spend time with you. She values your company and you shouldn't just take that for granted. Use those thoughts to kill all the neediness and sense of loss you feel. Telling her how much you love her and miss her and don't understand and asking for explanations will only make you come off as a needy, weak person. That's highly unattractive and counterproductive. She's given you some information to work with. Take some time to reflect on yourself and build on yourself. There are steps to reclaiming the man inside that your wife once loved. Start taking those steps. Stop investing in the marriage and start investing into yourself. Step away, accept her decision, and move forward with your own life. I'm not suggesting you give up on your marriage. I'm suggesting you build on yourself for the time being and give her time to consider her feelings and what she wants. She wanted this separation, so give it to her because you love and respect her. Best wishes. I totally agree. Even after my separation and when I started dating someone else, my H had the total advantage because I wanted more than anything for our marriage to work out. He has no idea how much power he had to get me back. But all contact with him was about making me feel guilty, becoming angry, trying to control me, etc. All it did was drive me further away.
Ronni_W Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I'll try to find those books at the bookshop and have a quick read. Most of the information out there is for improving an existing marrage where the couple is still functioning as a couple. Simon, Marriagebuilders.com is another resource that talks about a 'Love Bank', and making 'deposits' and 'withdrawals'. (Click on 'questionnaires' then 'emotional needs questionnaire' then there's a link to their Love Bank page at the top.) They do have some excellent other articles and concepts, as well. You're right that you may need to get creative in adapting much of the material that is out there ~ but your desire seems strong enough so that everything is possible I'm glad you've decided to return the files and docs ~ good on you! Best of luck in your relationship rebuilding efforts. In one of my self-development classes, the instructor is fond of saying, "The slower you go, the quicker you arrive" -- maybe something that'll help your endeavours(?)
n9688m Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Unless she's a total cold-hearted witch who enjoys this kind of thing, then I'm guessing that something happened to make her think that leaving was her only option. Nonsense. Unless he was beating her or using drugs or committing some other crime, she had an obligation at the very least to seek counseling and work this out before walking away.
n9688m Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I totally agree. Even after my separation and when I started dating someone else, my H had the total advantage because I wanted more than anything for our marriage to work out. Then why didn't you just tell him so and go to counseling with him? Why do women play this reverse psychology game?
TrustInYourself Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 We all play "games". Even when we don't recognize what we are doing. It's called human nature. Psychology. Understanding how are actions, thoughts, and mindset create an opposing reaction, thought, or mindset. It's a simple matter of self control and understanding our impact on other's thoughts, reactions, and mindsets. Are you good with people, n9688m?
n9688m Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 We all play "games". There is no excuse to do that to this extent with a spouse.
TrustInYourself Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 There is no excuse to do that to this extent with a spouse. And what if she's playing a game by being with you?
n9688m Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 And what if she's playing a game by being with you? Then she should end the game and acknowledge the divorce was her fault.
TrustInYourself Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 And if she admits it's her fault and she's wrong and you're right, does that fix the situation or the hurt you feel?
n9688m Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 And if she admits it's her fault and she's wrong and you're right, does that fix the situation or the hurt you feel? I believe that may well be exactly the situation I am in - and yes, if she were to admit it the it would reduce the guilt and second-guessing on my part quite a bit even though nothing can fix it or erase the hurt. And it sure would help me to understand the situation more so I don't repeat history next time.
TrustInYourself Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I believe that may well be exactly the situation I am in - and yes, if she were to admit it the it would reduce the guilt and second-guessing on my part quite a bit even though nothing can fix it or erase the hurt. And it sure would help me to understand the situation more so I don't repeat history next time. I understand. I see that you deserve an apology. It's unfortunate that your wife didn't understand her part in the tragedy of your situation. I could offer you more insight, but it's not mine to give. It's up to you to see it. I can point you in the right direction, but it's ultimately up to you to do what you need to do to grow from this situation. I'm sorry for everything, n9668m. I wish I was more understanding of how you felt from the start. Best wishes man.
n9688m Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I could offer you more insight, but it's not mine to give. It's up to you to see it. I can point you in the right direction, but it's ultimately up to you to do what you need to do to grow from this situation. I sense sarcasm there and I am not quite sure why. Do you think an apology is not in order if someone were playing a game by being married? Even more importantly - isn't honesty appropriate to come to closure in the situation? Or is it more appropriate to play the game of revisionist history and claim it is the other spouse's fault for various reasons?
TrustInYourself Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I sense sarcasm there and I am not quite sure why. Do you think an apology is not in order if someone were playing a game by being married? Even more importantly - isn't honesty appropriate to come to closure in the situation? Or is it more appropriate to play the game of revisionist history and claim it is the other spouse's fault for various reasons? There is no sarcasm. But since I'm on these boards and I don't matter I'll give you some of that insight. Every time you make an apology, you give a piece of yourself up. Think about what you are demanding of your wife by asking for an apology. Why do you think she would not want to do that? How often in the marriage were you the "right" one and your wife the "wrong" one. How many apologies did she have to make? In the end, your wife wins by walking away. You lose because you refuse to accept your part in the loss of the marriage. She's come to terms with her part and moved forward. She's not hurting because she's accepted and learned from the situation. She probably even forgives you. The only thing you are left with is anger, resentment, sorrow, and hurt. You are destroyed. Your wife made out because you refuse to accept that you were a part of the problem. The question is how do you overcome and heal from this? Sure, you can move on and get another wife or woman, but the fundamental issue is there and until you understand and deal with it, you're doomed to repeat your mistakes. You're just covering up your pain. There comes a point where your anger and resentment only hurt you.
TrustInYourself Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 And let me ask you this. Why is your happiness and self validation dependent on someone else making a concession? The past may lead you to some clues there.
n9688m Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 How many apologies did she have to make? We basically never fought. Neither one of us ever had to apologize that I can recall. Your wife made out because you refuse to accept that you were a part of the problem. Any marriage has its problems and to that extent yes I am part of the problem. However I have zero responsibility for the divorce if she didn't discuss her concerns with me and/or seek counseling before she instead had an affair which will is leading to a divorce.
n9688m Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Why is your happiness and self validation dependent on someone else making a concession? The past may lead you to some clues there. I didn't say I can't be happy without the concession. I've moved on emotionally. I do think it would go a long way toward helping us to be functional co-parents for the next decade.
Author Simon Leon Posted July 20, 2008 Author Posted July 20, 2008 Simon Leon, Do you have an email address you could post here? I can send you a book that may help. Thanks Navin. Theres a couple of evenings reading there. How did it help you?????
n9688m Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Thinking back to the original post, I wonder if there is some significance missed so far to the reason for you to not have sex with your wife for a year. That seems extremely unusual and among the potential causes might be: (1) Medical issues (2) Depression (3) You became involved with someone else (4) You became unattracted to your wife Might any of these be the case?
Author Simon Leon Posted July 21, 2008 Author Posted July 21, 2008 Depression!!!!!!! Definetly depression. The amazing thing is that wife leaving me brought me out of it. I am rising to the occasioin of trying to deal with the biggest challenge life has thrown at my yet.....and I feel more alive then I have in quite a while. Isn't that very odd.
n9688m Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Depression!!!!!!! Definetly depression. The amazing thing is that wife leaving me brought me out of it. I am rising to the occasioin of trying to deal with the biggest challenge life has thrown at my yet.....and I feel more alive then I have in quite a while. Isn't that very odd. Have you discussed this with your wife? Perhaps that would make her understand and forgive your recent actions if you seek treatment?
Navin_R_Johnson Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Thanks Navin. Theres a couple of evenings reading there. How did it help you????? Many ways. My M looks like it is beyond saving, and to be honest, I don't want her back right now. She is not the person I married. That said, like many people have said, in order to be chased, you first need to run. And be attractive. Have a social life outside of your W/family (Homer says date others...I say not not sleep with others, but go out with others for fun). Stop the chase immediately. It seems counterintuitive, but it is the only approach to take her defenses down. No ILYs. Have fun, enjoy your freedom, and as hard as it may be, when you're around her act as-if EVERYTHING IS JUST PERFECT. You are OK with divorce (Homer has a great line on how to handle this). You are HAPPY. You gotta be happy with yourself before you are of ANY use in a relationship. Always agree with everything (well, most everything). Listen, listen, validate, don't interject your needs or feelings or wants. Read closely "The most self-defeating mindset" section. It is very good. That which you want most (need), you are less likely to get. Homer's wisdom has definitely improved ME in so many ways. My communication with STBX is very good. Read Homer's book, follow it to a T for a while, and see how things go. The current path of being needy isn't working too well, is it? Good luck.
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