Creep or gentleman?

[woods321]

From reading these threads, I have noticed women labeling men as "Good" or "bad".. You might hear "I found one of the good guys" Or "I always meet creeps"

 

I feel that all men have different sides. That there are no creeps or gentleman. It depends on the woman they are with, and how she represents herself.

 

As an example, lets say woman 1 has some ground rules. She will not accept a date unless you ask her out 3 days ahead of time. (This already filters out men that aren't very interested) She will want to go to dinner, or a movie etc. Then she will go back to her own home alone. If you want to see her again, you better ask ahead, and it will be for another real date. She will attract gentleman, or bring out the "gentleman side" of the men that are courting her.

 

Or, lets say this woman has no rules. You can call her last minute and she is available. A first or second date will consist of watching tv and staying in. She might even be buying the food and bringing it to your home. This woman does not project high value. Her actions will bring out the "creepy" side of men.

 

I think many of the women that meet "creeps" are lacking the skills it takes to bring out the better side of those particular men. It is always easier to blame someone else and childishly name call, instead of improving how they present themselves to the opposite sex, so that they WILL be treated like ladies..

 

Perhaps you feel you should be able to do anything you like, and just deserve to be treated like a lady because of your anatomy. It is a nice thought, but that is not how it works now or in the past.

 

To me there is something sexy and alluring to a woman who acts like a lady. She exudes femininity, which brings out the males chivalry.

 

In summary, in my opinion, how you are treated by the opposite sex depends LARGELY on how you carry and present yourself. The same man you called a creep will be another womans prince.

[Mahatma]

I am willing to deal with women who are real to themselves and don't try to fake being more busy than they are. If I call my girlfriend at the last minute to invite her somewhere, she will usually come along. Sometimes she is busy and she can't. Other times, we set dates for things a few days to weeks in advance. You need a balance. Any woman who makes it a rule to need 3 days notice is just being too up tight and I won't even deal with it.

[woods321]

Once a woman is your girlfriend, that would be a different situation. I am talking about the first few dates.

[Star Gazer]

I obviously completely disagree. A TRUE GENTLEMAN will NEVER behave like a creep, regardless of how the woman 'presents herself.'

[Touche]

I have to agree with SG. I mean this has been brought up before. And I even said that we all go through phases in our lives but what some people don't seem to grasp is that yes, you're either a creep or a gentleman.

 

Let's see my H at one time was going through a stage where he wanted no commitment and dated a lot. I bring this up because I did use him as an example before.

 

No woman would have ever even called him a creep during that time. He would never push himself on anyone or not respect their boundaries. And just because he wanted no commitment, no woman would have called him a creep because he was upfront and RESPECTFUL, never deceiving anyone about his intentions.

 

Now do you see the difference?

 

It's all a matter of class. If a guy is a creep with one girl and a "gentleman" with another..nope. In my book he's a creep through and through. You can't fake being a gentleman. You either are or you're not. And if you're capable of being a "creep" with a certain type of girl then you're just a creep. Period.

 

And if you're able to hide the fact that you're a creep with the "nice" girl and act like a gentleman, well the "creep" side will ALWAYS come out in the end. You can't hide it for long.

 

So yeah. You're either one or the other. Period.

[KinAZ]

THAT'S SO FUNNY.

 

I treat everyone the same unless they do something (really do something) to make me treat them differently. If you are creepy because you think a girl's standards are low, and that it's "OK"... guess what... you're still a creep with low standards. And I say "low" because you would take interest in someone who you BELIEVE has low standards.

 

That, my friend, is very creepy! Similarly, if a woman thinks a man's standards are low in her opinion, and she still deals with them... she's a creepy woman with low standards... whatever those personal standards might be.

 

Just because a woman is not as formal or demanding doesn't mean she has no values... in order to know whether or not she had any, and what they were... you have to get to know her and WHY she does the things she does. Just because a girl is actually available and willing to go out at the last minute doesn't mean she has low standards necessarily. It might mean that she actually likes the guy a lot (or is at least very interested in him). *gasp* Or, maybe she's just doesn't mind doing things spontaneously.

 

Just because a person is a little spontaneous as well doesn't mean they have low standards, necessarily either. Maybe to those who put a high tag on certain formalities it does, but I think that's something that varies from person to person.

 

A gentleman is a gentleman regardless of the woman. If she is "sub par" he'll simply not deal with her. That treat a hoe like a hoe bullcrap is not gentlemanly behavior, plain and simple. A grown man simply wouldn't waste his time...

 

LIKEWISE, a lady won't do that either. In my younger years, when a man made the mistake of assuming that I was anything less than a lady... well, let's just say that there were times when I chose to behave as less than one. No, no... not by putting out, of course. But there were just some stupid people who thought I could be bought, and I let them try and try with no sale. ;-)

 

I was not right for what I did. Whether they were insecure or hard up or just liked the challenge, I don't know. The point was, that I didn't like it, I found it insulting, and I was very immature in the way I dealt with it THEN.

 

I have since GROWN UP, and I haven't any time for men who haven't grown up as well.

[Touche]

I liked your post, Kin.

 

I also wanted to add, using the food example. When I was dating my H early on, I remember coming over to his house with takeout after work. He ALWAYS offered to pay and he didn't get fresh with me.

 

The guy who doesn't even offer to pay for the food that was brought to him is a huge creep.

 

I swear. Some men need like a dating etiquette school or something.

[KinAZ]

Touche-

 

I think the opinions vary according to personal taste and even... cliques.

 

Like, some think that nice or sweet women must be push overs or insecure, etc. Those are probably the ones who tend more often towards the "princess" type. "She must be great and more secure if she appears more stuck up and less down to earth." As if her value is higher because she APPEARS to think so according to a certain group of social standards which actually vary.

 

On the other hand, you have those who dislike the "princess" types, and often that too is based on appearance. (I don't mean physical beauty so much as style and behavior.) They want someone who seems more down to earth, who doesn't seem as though she would make him jump through hoops, who doesn't seem like she's just too good to be in the company of anything not as great as herself.

 

I've been mistaken for both types. I'm no wanna-be-princess-diva, and I'm no push-over either. I'm a pretty laid back, down to earth sort of person, but I do have certain requirements and values also. Some see niceness as weakness, and others see requirements as conceit.... just look at the various comments made by the men around here.

 

Everything from "why do you think you deserve..." to "we're not creepy, you just have low standards."

[Touche]

Yes, well said. I guess as long as you're true to who you are you can hope that someone will see and recognize who you really are without pre-judging.

 

I'm sure lots of people pre-judge their way right out of what might have been a good match.

 

The right "one" will see us for who we really are and appreciate that. The rest don't matter.

[woods321]

I will say this.. If a strange man grabs you on the street and start kissing you, yes he is creep.

 

I guess you meet some women that make the first move and are completely all over you. But most women are apprehensive no matter how attracted to you they are. Many do not want to appear to be "too easy" etc. Sometimes especially if they like you a lot. A move to second base might be brushed off, then fully welcomed 2 minutes later, with a subsequent move to 3rd and fourth. If guys weren't coercing women into sex, we would probably have 3 billion less people on earth. Thats why if you are not ready for sex, perhaps public dates are best..

 

So is the guy "creepy" for the second attempt if you are not attracted to him? But strong and sexy for the second attempt if you are attracted to him?

 

To add even more confusion, scientific studies have shown that the number one sexual fantasy women have is being forced or coerced into sex.

 

"Force and coercion are common themes in sexual fantasy. In particular, some studies have found that women tend to fantasize about being forced or coerced into sex more commonly than men. A 1974 study by Hariton and Singer found that being "overpowered or forced to surrender" was the second most frequent fantasy in their survey; a 1984 study by Knafo and Jaffe ranked being overpowered as their study's most common fantasy during intercourse; and a 1988 study by Pelletier and Herold found that over half of their female respondents had fantasies of forced sex."

 

 

But what about for women? Lets say a girl has a few too many drinks, and takes a man home. She wakes up and regrets it. He calls her in the future and she ignores him.. He then sees her out with another guy. He says "What a slut!" So, her actions on that one day completely put her in the domain of "slut" for the rest of her life?

[jerbear]

Once a woman is your girlfriend, that would be a different situation. I am talking about the first few dates.

 

I have to disagree.

 

I wouldn't "relax" or change because the woman is my girlfriend. Yes, I can drop my guard and "can expect" some things. But I will not take her for granted just because she is now the GF. I did not lower my standards.

 

I have chased my ex's and still chased to keep the excitement going. There were times where I didn't have the money on me and she'll cover or insist because she asked me out. She'll jokingly ask for "favors" in lieu of $$$ :lmao: When I ask her out, I insist on paying because I asked her out.

She was a fun one.

 

There were times where my ex would bring food and I didn't pay. I did offer but she'll turned it down. Once, I was very hungry but made sure that I would return the favor. I told her that I didn't have $$$ so can't pay her. I told her I rather not eat then take advantage of her or take her for granted. Even when you are BF/GF or even married; you shouldn't take each other for granted.

 

I'm a gentleman most of the time. When it comes to the bedroom, our halos get put aside; till one of us says the code word meant to REALLY stop. Thats when we get creepy.

[Touche]

I will say this.. If a strange man grabs you on the street and start kissing you, yes he is creep.

 

I guess you meet some women that make the first move and are completely all over you. But most women are apprehensive no matter how attracted to you they are. Many do not want to appear to be "too easy" etc. Sometimes especially if they like you a lot. A move to second base might be brushed off, then fully welcomed 2 minutes later, with a subsequent move to 3rd and fourth. If guys weren't coercing women into sex, we would probably have 3 billion less people on earth. Thats why if you are not ready for sex, perhaps public dates are best..

 

So is the guy "creepy" for the second attempt if you are not attracted to him? But strong and sexy for the second attempt if you are attracted to him?

 

To add even more confusion, scientific studies have shown that the number one sexual fantasy women have is being forced or coerced into sex.

 

"Force and coercion are common themes in sexual fantasy. In particular, some studies have found that women tend to fantasize about being forced or coerced into sex more commonly than men. A 1974 study by Hariton and Singer found that being "overpowered or forced to surrender" was the second most frequent fantasy in their survey; a 1984 study by Knafo and Jaffe ranked being overpowered as their study's most common fantasy during intercourse; and a 1988 study by Pelletier and Herold found that over half of their female respondents had fantasies of forced sex."

 

 

But what about for women? Lets say a girl has a few too many drinks, and takes a man home. She wakes up and regrets it. He calls her in the future and she ignores him.. He then sees her out with another guy. He says "What a slut!" So, her actions on that one day completely put her in the domain of "slut" for the rest of her life?

 

Ok, on the first bolded quote. The guy is creepy no matter what he looks like for not respecting the gal's boundaries. What's so difficult to understand?

 

As for the fantasy thing. What's your point? It's FANTASY. Do you understand that word? I have a fantasy of having sex with a woman. Would I ever do it? Not in a million years. I've had my chances in the past. So this fantasy that many women have is "play" or "make-believe" within the confines of a relationship. I mean you don't think women really want to be raped do you? So please realize the difference between fantasy and reality.

 

As for the slut thing. Maybe to you she'll always be a slut. I don't see that she was since it was consensual sex. No one forced anyone nor did anyone not respect anyone's boundaries. I mean I'm assuming the woman didn't force the guy to have sex, right?

 

Your arguments aren't holding up for me.

[woods321]

Touche..

 

How many women have you made love to? Zero, right?

 

You have to picture it from what a man experiences.. Should he verbally ask? "Can i touch you here now, is that ok?"

 

MANY women LOVE to play hard to get. Do you think they just lay back and say do me the first time? That is pretty rare.

 

OFCOURSE NO MAN SHOULD FORCE HIMSELF WHEN SHE IS DEAD SERIOUS.

 

But is is also important for women NOT to send mixed signals so she is not in that position. Going to a mans home to be alone with him can be a mixed signal to some(or most) men.

[Touche]

Touche..

 

How many women have you made love to? Zero, right?

 

You have to picture it from what a man experiences.. Should he verbally ask? "Can i touch you here now, is that ok?"

 

MANY women LOVE to play hard to get. Do you think they just lay back and say do me the first time? That is pretty rare.

 

OFCOURSE NO MAN SHOULD FORCE HIMSELF WHEN SHE IS DEAD SERIOUS.

 

But is is also important for women NOT to send mixed signals so she is not in that position. Going to a mans home to be alone with him can be a mixed signal to some(or most) men.

 

Look, I agree with some of that..not all. I agree that women should never send mixed signals. That's wrong.

 

And yes SOME men (the creeps) take going over to their home as carte blanche to get fresh.

 

There's really no across the board iron clad way of being. We all have to assess the person and the situation.

 

I mean if a guy creeped me out once, no I wouldn't be going over to his house.

 

(You're from that other board aren't you?)

[KinAZ]

So is the guy "creepy" for the second attempt if you are not attracted to him? But strong and sexy for the second attempt if you are attracted to him?

 

Even if you are attracted to a guy he can still be termed a creep if he keeps trying.

 

This is going to make it more confusing than it already is, and so I probably should say this first. If she shoots you down on that first attempt on that same date, just give it a rest.

 

Sometimes, a girl may say no because she knows she shouldn't even though she wants to. Like, just because I'm aroused doesn't mean that I want to have sex. Or, I may even want to have sex, but I'm exercising self-control. It could be that she's just not that into you in that way (yet), that she doesn't want to move too fast, or that she's simply trying to practice self control.

 

There's generally a reason for the no, beyond simply playing hard to get, so a no should always be respected by a gentleman.

 

To add even more confusion, scientific studies have shown that the number one sexual fantasy women have is being forced or coerced into sex.

DO NOT let this add to your confusion, or you're going to be in court facing rape charges. So... just stop being confused. A fantasy is a fantasy. And speaking as a woman who appreciates an aggressive man, I didn't appreciate unexpected asphyxiation. LOL, so no... don't let some supposedly common fantasy cause you any confusion.

 

But what about for women? Lets say a girl has a few too many drinks, and takes a man home. She wakes up and regrets it. He calls her in the future and she ignores him.. He then sees her out with another guy. He says "What a slut!" So, her actions on that one day completely put her in the domain of "slut" for the rest of her life?

A guy doesn't have to be in the "creep" domain all of his life anymore than a girl has to be in the "slut" domain all of her life. However, there is little we can do about the judgments other people make of us. And it would be pretty silly to get bent out of shape trying to control the minds of everyone you've ever encountered. (Especially when you could be dealing with an emotionally based opinion.)

 

Behavior can be creepy, and if it's typical behavior, or philosophy for this man... I'll term him a creepy. Maybe in the future I would learn more about him, how it was a mistake or how he has changed... who knows. Same for women... typical behavior or certain philosophies will earn her a label just the same.

 

It may not always be right, and many times it's not always accurate. But even if the rest of the world has a false perception of what you do... you still know the truth.

[woods321]

Men are men...Thats all I am saying.

 

If you have a hot body, and you wear a bikini to 50 mens homes on a first date and sit next to them on the couch , you will say all men are "creepy" .

 

If you meet the same men, and you go to dinner, you might say only 5% of them are "creepy"

 

Hence, what you do can bring out the "creepiness" or the "gentleman".

 

Maybe I am different. I would not go to a womans home whom I am not attracted to, or ready to mess around with. Can you picture what the woman would think if I am in HER home, and she kisses me and I push her away and act all offended? It would not make her feel very good. I am actually too caring to ever do that to a female.

[Trialbyfire]

Men are men...Thats all I am saying.

 

If you have a hot body, and you wear a bikini to 50 mens homes on a first date and sit next to them on the couch , you will say all men are "creepy" .

 

If you meet the same men, and you go to dinner, you might say only 5% of them are "creepy"

 

Hence, what you do can bring out the "creepiness" or the "gentleman".

 

Maybe I am different. I would not go to a womans home whom I am not attracted to, or ready to mess around with. Can you picture what the woman would think if I am in HER home, and she kisses me and I push her away and act all offended? It would not make her feel very good. I am actually too caring to ever do that to a female.

Sorry but you're full of it!! It has nothing to do with "caring" per se!!

 

Anyways, a gentlemen knows what the word "no" means. A creep or pigman doesn't.

[KinAZ]

Men are men...Thats all I am saying.

 

If you have a hot body, and you wear a bikini to 50 mens homes on a first date and sit next to them on the couch , you will say all men are "creepy" .

 

That's not true. I know men who would not be creepy, even in such situations.

 

I know creepy men may not want to admit that, lol but it's true.

 

Can you picture what the woman would think if I am in HER home, and she kisses me and I push her away and act all offended? It would not make her feel very good. I am actually too caring to ever do that to a female.

 

Well, most people know (or at least should learn with time) when the "mood" is there. I've NEVER made the first move. But if I decided to, my ego would probably be hurt simply because I'm rather shy. And I would think that they guy just wasn't interested in me in that way, or didn't want to move too quickly or something.

 

However, if I invited a guy over for dinner and a movie, I wouldn't be doing so with the intention of jumping him!

 

Furthermore, since you say all men are creepy anyway, then... guys should be used to how women respond to their creepy behavior. LOL, and I am then missing the point of all this...

[Touche]

Sorry but you're full of it!! It has nothing to do with "caring" per se!!

 

Anyways, a gentlemen knows what the word "no" means. A creep or pigman doesn't.

 

Yep, make no bones about it. A creep still tries even after he's rebuffed.

[Trialbyfire]

Yep, make no bones about it. A creep still tries even after he's rebuffed.

Know your place woman! If you wear a skirt, be prepared that men will treat you differently. If it's above the knees, you never know what a man might do!! Bloody tease for daring to show your knees!

[Touche]

Know your place woman! If you wear a skirt, be prepared that men will treat you differently. If it's above the knees, you never know what a man might do!! Bloody tease for daring to show your knees!

 

And you rhyme while yelling at me too.

 

I know really. I can't believe I went over to H's house with food when we were dating. It's a wonder that he didn't take me right then and there what with all those "mixed messages" I was sending.

[woods321]

Women need to realize that men are men. Do you want to create some androgynous being that thinks exactly like you?

 

IMHO, ladies you want to date spend time building men up. They realize and embrace differences between the sexes, and are fully aware of boundaries.

 

Others try to spend time emasculating men. Tearing them apart. Calling names. Trying to control. Wanting to act likes "buddies", yet also try to date.

 

What is the point to labeling and name calling? The heterosexual male is the last species that it is ok to put down?

[Trialbyfire]

It's got nothing to do with emasculating men. It's about common decency and courtesy. If a woman says "no", it means "no", regardless if you strike out the odd time because she means "yes". That's life and the law!

[KinAZ]

It's got nothing to do with emasculating men. It's about common decency and courtesy. If a woman says "no", it means "no", regardless if you strike out the odd time because she means "yes". That's life and the law!

 

Well said. And I don't think it's at all emasculating to suggest that men are perfectly able of exercising self-control, and treating all women with a certain level of respect. I think it's ridiculous to suggest that all men are careless and tactless by nature.

 

I will agree that women should not be "surprised" by the behavior of some men in certain situations with time. But that doesn't mean that such behavior is in anyway proper or OK just because it's considered by some to be typical.

[woods321]

Nobody is speaking of rape.

 

Obviously rapists should be in prison for life, and then be dealt with harshly once there.

 

We are speaking of women who put themselves in precarious positions, then label the man a "creep" for making a move or 2.

 

A. I wouldn't go to a womans home whom I would not want to fool around with, knowing she most likely wants to.

 

B. If I did go anyway, and she tried, I would leave. At that point she is not "creepy" as she did something normal. Initiate physical contact with a man at her home.

 

C. If I stayed and she tried again, at that point it is my fault. I wouldn't label her creepy for having urges while seeing this good looking man right next to her.

 

Or should I just stay as long as I want in her home and call her creepy?