The Gentleman

[KinAZ]

Some say chivalry is dead, but I don't believe that's entirely true.

 

I was wondering, do the guys around here consider themselves to be "gentlemen"? Do you open all the doors etc etc? Do you think it's important or pointless?

 

Ladies, how important is to you that I guy open doors, carry bags, and do all of the other things that a proper gentleman is supposed to do?

 

I went out with a guy for a short period of time, who was a little too practical for me. While I ended the relationships for a combination of reasons, the fact that he was not the gentleman I was used to was actually another nail in his coffin.

 

At the time, it would make the hair on the back of my neck stand on end, because I was just used to a certain type of treatment. Few things have been so irksome. Now, I do wonder if I could learn to get over this "requirement" well enough to give a more practical guy a chance in the future. I'm wondering if it is as silly as it sounds, or if it's understandable to want a guy to come with certain charms.

 

SO, I would like to hear other thoughts on this one.

[carhill]

Without romantic intent, one reason I enjoy women of my mother's generation (60's-80's, mom is 86) is that they stereotypically respond so well to gentlemanly behaviors. I've actually had women my age (almost 50) say "I don't need that", "I can do that for myself".

 

As an example, when flying and upon de-boarding, I'll pull down a carry-on out of the bin for an elderly lady, without comment, and this tells her two things, one that I'm a gentleman, and two that I noticed her and the bag she had. Overwhelmingly, they are surprised but appreciative. "Thank you so much, young man" (Yeah, like I'm a young man ) My mom was a very independent and physically strong lady, but she always appreciated a gentleman's behavior, so gave me what I feel is an excellent role model of how to treat women. Most women of my generation, my wife included, don't really appreciate that, or so I perceive. It's like I'm insulting them or demeaning them. Or that their bag has been soiled by my touch

 

I have many more examples, but, overwhelmingly, it's just another indicator of compatibility, or lack thereof, when actions of love and/or respect are not perceived in the fashion which they are intended. Something gets lost in the translation.

 

I'll be interested to hear more of the female perspective on this.

[McLovely]

Ladies, how important is to you that I guy open doors, carry bags, and do all of the other things that a proper gentleman is supposed to do?

 

Very important. I expect no less chivalry from my mate than my mother and her mother expected (and got) from theirs.

 

Just today I was in the shoe store and a cute older couple were in front of me in the checkout line. They were having a funny conversation with the cashier about how much women love their shoes. And as soon as her purchase was bagged her husband promptly grabbed it to carry. And when they reached the door to leave he opened it for her. The cashier commented that he was a keeper. I agree. Men have no idea how much those little things buy brownie points. And we all know what those brownie points are worth!

[Geishawhelk]

I guess the edges between chivalry and courtesy can become blurred....

and to be honest with you, it's got something to do with social standards, and how frankly, we have become complacent, and let them slip...

 

Let me give you an example.

(I don't know how things are in the USA, but let me speak from a UK perspective....)

 

It's a Friday or Saturday evening, in town. The strees are full of couples going out together for the evening...for a meal, to a club, whatever....

The ladies always look rwally glammed up. No matter what tastes one may have in clothing, it's clear they've made the effort. They look pretty, they're made up, wearing jewellery, frocks, dresses, flwoy things, heels, hair done...

 

Take a look at their male companions.

 

What a bloody mess.

Jeans, trainers sweatshirt.

Ubiquitous apparel worn day in, day out. They never look any different.

If my partner was going out ith me, and made no efort, he'd find himself alone for the evening.

 

The workplace is the place for complete equality. I'll open the door for a man, as well as a woman. I don't seek, nor give preferential treatment according to gender, only according to requirements à propos authority...

But in my private life with my partner, I would like courtesy. I'd like him to open a door for me, be it car or building, I'd like him to carry bags...he always walks on the pavement road-side.... he always holds my hand, and he is always extremely protective.

 

I'm 51.

Maybe I come from a different era, but in my opinion, the younger generation who may see it as 'old fashioned' are at odds with me, who sees it as a definite lack of manners. Complacency. Laziness.

 

Sad, really.

If we can't treat others with courtesy and consideration, it's a sad world.

As my partner said to a lady, after he'd opened the door for her, and she thanked him with -

"You don't have to do that just cos i'm a lady....!"

 

"I didn't. I did it because I'm a gentleman."

[Woggle]

Chivalry for the most part and women killed it. I show the same common courtesy that I show to men but I don't go out of my way to be chivalrous to women. No holding open doors, giving up my seat or any of that.

[carhill]

I saw more gentlemanly behaviors exhibited and appreciated during my travels to Europe and Australasia (Australia and New Zealand specifically). Much more in line with my perspective. I felt right at home, even though with perfect strangers.

 

Glad to see you got a "keeper", Geishawalk....

 

This thread just brought to mind another subject for a journal..... thanks

[KinAZ]

Thanks guys. I was wondering if I was feeling a little... overly entitled or something. I really can't help it though, I guess. The one overly practical guy I went out with was a Taurus, there have been a couple of Aries (one long term), a couple of Aquarius but for the most part, the guys I've gone out have been Leos. I know some people may not think much of it, but they always get the doors, the bags, the chairs, the everything. It's not that it makes me feel "special" as I know that's how they are in general. But for a guy to not do those things... it really does seem inconsiderate to me.

 

The practical guy... Once we went to some little restaurant in the mall, he ordered for himself, paid, and THEN said "Umm did you want anything?" And that wasn't the first time he did it either. We went to the beach, it was hot, he wanted water, asked if I could break a hundred (so it wasn't like he couldn't afford a second bottle of water or something), paid for the water, and THEN asked if I wanted anything. It was literally like the twilight zone. The first time I thought he was just overheated and delusional. He was very affectionate and everything, but really... I couldn't deal with it. The passenger side door of his car was extremely hard to close... you'd think he'd open and close it for me right?

 

Part of me thought it was because he was younger (only a year older than myself), and the rest of me was convinced that he was used to dealing with a different class of women, for lack of better terms. So, while I ended things for unrelated reasons, I did emphasis that in my vent to him when I told him it just wasn't going to work.

 

I hung out with him a couple of times after that, and he was a much better host... but reading the various posts on this message board just made me wonder if I'm expecting way more than I should in general. Or should I say, I was wondering if that was a requirement that I should consider talking myself out of...

 

I agree with the comment above about it having to do with manners, but it does seem like for my generation, the requirements aren't really the same. Most guys never make it past the phone because of manners, and other related things. To me, over looking manners is lowering a necessary standard. However, logically speaking, it's not like we can't open our own doors and such. It's just that it doesn't seem right to me, and I wonder if it really is sexist in the modern world, or if a lot of guys my age are just very lazy, or feeling overly entitled themselves.

[xpaperxcutx]

Thanks guys. I was wondering if I was feeling a little... overly entitled or something. I really can't help it though, I guess. The one overly practical guy I went out with was a Taurus, there have been a couple of Aries (one long term), a couple of Aquarius but for the most part, the guys I've gone out have been Leos. I know some people may not think much of it, but they always get the doors, the bags, the chairs, the everything. It's not that it makes me feel "special" as I know that's how they are in general. But for a guy to not do those things... it really does seem inconsiderate to me.

 

The practical guy... Once we went to some little restaurant in the mall, he ordered for himself, paid, and THEN said "Umm did you want anything?" And that wasn't the first time he did it either. We went to the beach, it was hot, he wanted water, asked if I could break a hundred (so it wasn't like he couldn't afford a second bottle of water or something), paid for the water, and THEN asked if I wanted anything. It was literally like the twilight zone. The first time I thought he was just overheated and delusional. He was very affectionate and everything, but really... I couldn't deal with it. The passenger side door of his car was extremely hard to close... you'd think he'd open and close it for me right?

 

Part of me thought it was because he was younger (only a year older than myself), and the rest of me was convinced that he was used to dealing with a different class of women, for lack of better terms. So, while I ended things for unrelated reasons, I did emphasis that in my vent to him when I told him it just wasn't going to work.

 

I hung out with him a couple of times after that, and he was a much better host... but reading the various posts on this message board just made me wonder if I'm expecting way more than I should in general. Or should I say, I was wondering if that was a requirement that I should consider talking myself out of...

 

I agree with the comment above about it having to do with manners, but it does seem like for my generation, the requirements aren't really the same. Most guys never make it past the phone because of manners, and other related things. To me, over looking manners is lowering a necessary standard. However, logically speaking, it's not like we can't open our own doors and such. It's just that it doesn't seem right to me, and I wonder if it really is sexist in the modern world, or if a lot of guys my age are just very lazy, or feeling overly entitled themselves.

 

Something's wrong with that guy...

 

We may not be the same age group, but I always find it especially charming if a guy were to open a door for me. It shows that at least there are still some people of my generation who still offers a little respect to woman compared to music videos that defames women for their body. I mean I can open the door by myself, but it just also shows how considerate a guy is.

 

And Kinaz, its okay to want someone with chivalry. It shows that you have standards and is not willing to just settle for any one person.

[Carmen87]

I don't believe chivalry is dead. I love it when my SO opens his truck door for me before getting in on the drivers side, or when he insists he carry my bags.

[Woggle]

Can I ask women why they think modern men deserve to be treated in this manner? What exactly do they give men in return for them to warrant special consideration?

[xpaperxcutx]

Can I ask women why they think modern men deserve to be treated in this manner? What exactly do they give men in return for them to warrant special consideration?

I cant believe you asked that..

[Woggle]

I meant to say modern women but it's the truth. Why do women deserve chivalry? What makes them so special that men should do these things for them?

[xpaperxcutx]

I meant to say modern women but it's the truth. Why do women deserve chivalry? What makes them so special that men should do these things for them?

 

Then ask yourself why bother chasing after a girl then? Because we're flattered that you're willing to at least do something simple as open a door for us. It makes us FEEL special.

 

I bet you've never done it.

[Woggle]

Then ask yourself why bother chasing after a girl then? Because we're flattered that you're willing to at least do something simple as open a door for us. It makes us FEEL special.

 

I bet you've never done it.

 

If I deem a woman worthy enough to date me then yes I will make her feel special as I do my wife but the everyday woman can open her own door and do her own heavy lifting.

[xpaperxcutx]

If I deem a woman worthy enough to date me then yes I will make her feel special as I do my wife but the everyday woman can open her own door and do her own heavy lifting.

 

I think the OP referred chivalry to the guys she wants to date. And I never said that any one guy should just open the door for me. I meant more like if I like the guy and he opens the door for me, I would like him even more because he has the traits of a chivalrous guy.

[Nevermind]

If I open a door and somebody is coming right behind me, I'll open the door for them. If somebody is not directly behind me, but carrying something more than a light shopping bag, I'll hold the door open, etc. It's common courtesy and works regardless of gender.

 

I very much like to make people comfortable but have come to realize that I'd like my partner to show some effort to make me comfortable as well.

 

However, if anybody makes a great show of simply being polite ("Look I opened the door, see how great I am? See? See??") then it defeats the original purpose. A gentleman, or a lady, will behave properly and politely without asking to be admired for it.

[Shygirl15]

Thanks guys. I was wondering if I was feeling a little... overly entitled or something. I really can't help it though, I guess. The one overly practical guy I went out with was a Taurus, there have been a couple of Aries (one long term), a couple of Aquarius but for the most part, the guys I've gone out have been Leos. I know some people may not think much of it, but they always get the doors, the bags, the chairs, the everything. It's not that it makes me feel "special" as I know that's how they are in general. But for a guy to not do those things... it really does seem inconsiderate to me.

 

The practical guy... Once we went to some little restaurant in the mall, he ordered for himself, paid, and THEN said "Umm did you want anything?"

 

:laugh:

 

That would have probably been my last encounter with the "gentleman". I'm dating a Taurus, he rarely opens doors for me. Never picks my bags from at the store, however he always insist on picking the up the tab. He just doesn't let me pay for anything when we are out, so you see, I can't really complain..

[carhill]

Being a Taurus and having old-fashioned gentlemanly politeness and values is just another of the many conundrums swirling around this poster's psyche. Just be glad you're not my wife

[whichwayisup]

I think it's just a kind thing to do for ANYONE, reguardless of their sex, age, nationality. To open the door for someone, give someone your seat in a bus or subway. Too many people these days are so into themselves and their own lives, they've forgotten to just give without expecting anything back.

[brightskies]

Some say chivalry is dead, but I don't believe that's entirely true.

 

I was wondering, do the guys around here consider themselves to be "gentlemen"? Do you open all the doors etc etc? Do you think it's important or pointless?

 

Ladies, how important is to you that I guy open doors, carry bags, and do all of the other things that a proper gentleman is supposed to do?

 

I went out with a guy for a short period of time, who was a little too practical for me. While I ended the relationships for a combination of reasons, the fact that he was not the gentleman I was used to was actually another nail in his coffin.

 

At the time, it would make the hair on the back of my neck stand on end, because I was just used to a certain type of treatment. Few things have been so irksome. Now, I do wonder if I could learn to get over this "requirement" well enough to give a more practical guy a chance in the future. I'm wondering if it is as silly as it sounds, or if it's understandable to want a guy to come with certain charms.

 

SO, I would like to hear other thoughts on this one.

 

Personally, I *love* it when a guy is chivalrous and gentlemanly: it shows a great deal of consideration and that he was brought up with good manners, even if they might be considered old-fashioned these days. Whether or not I'm on a date, and a guy takes the time and effort to open doors, pull out a chair, or carry my bags, etc., I'm always very appreciative and let him know it. I'm so envious of earlier generations where this kind of behavior was more the norm than the exception. These days it's much rarer.

 

I agree with Geisha that complacency plays a big part in the downturn, and also that some women's reactions to chivalry might have helped ruin it for the rest of us who appreciate it --- you know, the kind of woman who's offended when a guy opens a door for them. Why not take it in stride and enjoy the fact that he's making the extra effort on your behalf? I'm able-bodied and can handle myself, sure, but I really enjoy the special care a guy takes with his date when he's being a gentleman. Even better if he does this on a regular basis and not just on dates!

 

A chivalrous, gentlemanly guy definitely wins huge, huge! points and is way ahead of the game in my book.

[KinAZ]

 

 

:laugh:

 

That would have probably been my last encounter with the "gentleman". I'm dating a Taurus, he rarely opens doors for me. Never picks my bags from at the store, however he always insist on picking the up the tab. He just doesn't let me pay for anything when we are out, so you see, I can't really complain..

 

LOL that's good to hear about him picking up the tab. I mean the guy did pay... eventually. But it was just totally ODD that he wouldn't ask me before he paid or something. I think he opened and closed the car door for me once while I was dating him. When I hung out with him again after that, he did remember the door AND remembered to ask me if I wanted anything.

 

This may seem weird to some, but I'm the kind of person who... if I've never been to your house before, I'm not going to come all the way in or even sit without being invited to do so. Some people come over... go straight to the bathroom or kitchen or something and I'm like "AHH! You didn't just do that!" To me, that's just respectful behavior in general.

 

And as someone above said, I always stand for those older than myself, pregnant ladies, etc... anyone who looks like they need a seat. I'll wait and hold a door if someone has their hands full or something. That's just the way I was raised, and my 6 year old even tries to do the same. (He gets a little carried away some times, but he does want to be a "gentleman.")

 

But that was the last time I went out with him. After that I told him that we needed to slow things down, and then he tried to pop by my house at an odd hour (which was a nono), and I just went along with it because I figured it would be a good time to just tell him to hit the road. He brought his COUSIN with him (fresh from a bar), so... I called after that and gave him an ear full. I didn't want to say what I had to say in front of his cousin, even though he was in the wrong.

[KinAZ]

Being a Taurus and having old-fashioned gentlemanly politeness and values is just another of the many conundrums swirling around this poster's psyche. Just be glad you're not my wife

 

I had a sneaking suspicious that you might be a Taurus when I was typing that post. It may have something to do with generations, and as someone else stated... how one was raised.

 

But the one thing I did like about the "practical" guy was that he was rather... authoritative (e.g. stubborn). While there were a couple of situations were he came across as being a little creepy with the authoritative possessiveness so early on, I DID like that he was able to get me to do some things that others wouldn't have been able to get me to do. Like I have my license, but I'm afraid of driving, and he was literally able to make me do it. Something paternal there, maybe? I don't know... but it's probably why he wasn't given the boot sooner than he was.

[CaliGuy]

I'm very chivalrous and if it bothers my date, she's probably the wrong person for me. It's the way I was raised to behave.

[JP77]

I'm very chivalrous and if it bothers my date, she's probably the wrong person for me. It's the way I was raised to behave.

 

I bet Fabio is more chivalrous than you. I'm actually quite chivalrous, but its natural, I dont think about holding a door open, I just do so. Because I'm better than Fabio and have a nicer, smoother penis than Fabio. I also have hairy nipples, unlike Fabio.

[brightskies]

I bet Fabio is more chivalrous than you. I'm actually quite chivalrous, but its natural, I dont think about holding a door open, I just do so. Because I'm better than Fabio and have a nicer, smoother penis than Fabio. I also have hairy nipples, unlike Fabio.

 

:lmao::lmao: