Marriage, Vows. What do they really mean today?

July 13, 2008

After being here and participating in some discussions, looking at those marriages I have been involved with, and just through general information I hear or read... I really wonder, if people understand what a marriage is about. I wonder if they are too shortsighted and/or unready for what such a union entails. Do they live more so in a fairy tale than they realize? Are we even teaching our children anymore how to be a good spouse?

It is sad how bad people treat marriages (both from influences within and outside of the marriage) and the vows they say. It seems more like shows than anything real. A couple say they will love and cherish and obey (before anyone starts crying about how much of a slaver I am, or how I desire to mistreat my wife when I get married, REALLY GET TO UNDERSTAND THE WORD AND CONCEPT BEFORE YOU START BLESSING ME OUT! And if you think you got it or still are having problem with why I use the word, ASK ME WHAT MY IDEA ON THE WORD AND HOW IT RELATES TO MARRIAGE!), but do they REALLY understand what they are getting into? Have they taken the necessary steps to ensure a better chance at a successful union (a successful union being when one or both of the pair have died).

I mean, lets be honest... We really don't plan on being married like our fore-parents did. Most unions nowadays are to individuals living together as individuals than they are two individuals living together to become one entity. We teach ourselves we don't have to lose ourselves to our spouses (which on a basic, self-protective level, I would agree) or in our marriages in order to be married, but yet more and more people get divorced because, they can't see eye-to-eye. A certain habit has become a total annoyance and now we want to run. It seems like too many get married based on their dreams, but when the realities come to light, we don't want to face them.

To many get married based on the concept of "I love you" and chemistry. When, while important, really has little to do with why too people should get married. No, love and affection are actually insubstantial concepts that are made solid by DOING. This doing is an active process that requires a lot of parts, but the most important part is it being done with the honest attempt to make real to the other person, that which is in your heart, without a selfish motive or an attempt at a deceit. Surprisingly, more marriages than not of olden times had little to do with love initially, and more to do with finding someone who is going to be on the same page as you. But, through time and effort, love grew and grew and grew. And the more each learned to enjoy the good and accept the bad, this made marriages more successful than the thought which seems prevalent today; the thought that being married to this person will make me happy.

And so I wonder...

1) What does the vows mean to you? Are they real or fiction? Do they mean anything to you (please explain)?

2) What are your concepts of marriage? What does it really mean to you?

3) How many of you who are or were married, after you got married realized you really did not know what you were in for?

4) Do you believe that it is important to take certain steps prior to marriage to help have better odds for the survival of the marriage (i.e. you and your spouse getting to know each other's family and friends, counseling, sitting down and seriously discussing what are your expectations from the marriage, etc.)? If so, what are they?

5) What are the things you think are a must in a marriage?

July 13, 2008

1) What does the vows mean to you? Are they real or fiction? Do they mean anything to you (please explain)?

The vows to me are my word. They bind me to a standard to uphold. They are also a guideline for me to measure my actions and the actions of my spouse against should a need arise. And since I never make a vow half-heartedly, this makes the vows very real to me and mean everything to me as a man.

2) What are your concepts of marriage? What does it really mean to you?

I think marriage is about two people working on mutual grounds to achieve various goals in life. It is a very simple word that defines a very complex process for which two entities are suppose to be seen as one. Marriage means I am taking on a unique expression of love of another. It is possibly the ultimate version of "do onto others as you would have them do onto you." And that another person is now a physical, mental, and spiritual extension of myself. So, just like I would do whatever is good to protect myself, I am going to do more so for my spouse.

3) How many of you who are or were married, after you got married realized you really did not know what you were in for? What would you suggest to those of us who are one day getting married or hope to?

4) Do you believe that it is important to take certain steps prior to marriage to help have better odds for the survival of the marriage (i.e. you and your spouse getting to know each other's family and friends, counseling, sitting down and seriously discussing what are your expectations from the marriage, etc.)? If so, what are they?

I believe a successful marriage requires...

1) A high level of trust and openness.

2) A some common ground and desires.

3) Pre-marriage counseling and a few couples retreats.

4) A prior discussion about marriage before hand.

5) No eloping! I think it is important that family and friends get to intermingle with the spouse before hand so that you can also get some feed back from others who might see things you don't. Besides, I doubt really close family members and friends want to be forced to love a stranger.

6) Check things out about your SO before you get married. Check on things like finances, criminal background, and medical history.

5) What are the things you think are a must in a marriage?

1) Continual growth, nurturing, and maturity.

2) Communication, interaction, and reflection.

3) Designated time together and designated time alone.

4) No use of the word "I hate you." or threats of divorce when angry.

5) Compromise on things you can agree upon and submitting on the things you can't.

6) Respecting and cherishing each one's role and individualism they bring into the union.

7) A lot of putting your spouse above yourself.

8) Reminding yourself your spouse is an extension of you and you of them.

DNR

July 13, 2008

excellent post, dnr!

1) What do the vows mean to you? Are they real or fiction? Do they mean anything to you (please explain)?

oh, they're very real, both the bedrock and the parameters of the relationship I have with my husband. To break them would be to crack the foundation of our relationship ...

2) What are your concepts of marriage? What does it really mean to you?

marriage is that leap of faith you're taking with someone you won't ever really know 100 percent, but because you trust and believe in him and what you have, it's a worthwhile leap. What does it mean to me? That I've got someone who I can honestly say each and every day, "I chose you." And I'm pretty sure he can say the same thing of me ... despite the fact we *can* drive each other nuts :laugh:

3) How many of you who are or were married, after you got married realized you really did not know what you were in for?

that leap of faith I was talking about? Well, it didn't take long for reality to come crashing in – especially when we were having some serious problems with his drinking – and I got to wondering what the hell I got myself into. As much as you can love and want someone, you still discover something new about them no matter how long you've been together.

4) Do you believe that it is important to take certain steps prior to marriage to help have better odds for the survival of the marriage (i.e. you and your spouse getting to know each other's family and friends, counseling, sitting down and seriously discussing what are your expectations from the marriage, etc.)? If so, what are they?

the best thing we did for our marriage was to go on a weekend marriage retreat, because I think he finally understood why I looked at marriage as I did, coming from a Mexican Catholic family. That I wasn't going to shxt-can him like his first two wives did ... I learned how to be more patient. And that weekend reinforced my thought that he was a diamond in the rough, relationship-wise. The other good thing – and this is something EVERY relationship needs to survive – is that we learned how to better communicate with each other. We learned that even though we get pissed off with each other, that bedrock of love doesn't change, it's solid.

5) What are the things you think are a must in a marriage?

companionship

forgiveness

trust

humor

patience

a willingness to put the other person first when needs be/selflessness

respect

love

laughter

curiosity/willingness to try or do new things or places

July 13, 2008

Thanks for your advice. And faith is so needed, especially since we don't have crystal balls or the power of precognition that could foretell our marital futures. It is probably faith that is the key more so than love. Because we can love someone, but if we don't have faith/trust in their ability to return that kind of love we want and/or need, then its not going to work. This is why most marriages fail after an affair, the faith/trust is no longer there or the partner just can't get back up to that level were they can have that faith in that partner.

DNR

July 13, 2008

1. Without going deep into the rest of it (that would be an entire book), vows are just that and are meant and intended to be kept in my belief system and philosophy.

2. To me, marriage is the opportunity for two whole people to come together and enhance one another and their relationship.

3. I don't believe you ever know what you're in for until you're in the middle of it. That's half the challenge and the fun.

4. Friendship first!

5. Honesty, trust and friendship.

July 13, 2008

1) What does the vows mean to you? Are they real or fiction? Do they mean anything to you (please explain)?

Vows are mistakes people make. Because nobody knows what is going to happen in the future. They are not taking changes into account.

2) What are your concepts of marriage? What does it really mean to you?

Marriage is a deep connection and mutual support and understanding.

3) How many of you who are or were married, after you got married realized you really did not know what you were in for?

I knew what I was in for. And it lasted what it had to last.

4) Do you believe that it is important to take certain steps prior to marriage... If so, what are they?

I believe people should be together for as long as they want to, without any chains or expectations. That way everybody is happy and nobody gets disappointed.

I believe that attitude is the most important.

5) What are the things you think are a must in a marriage?

Nothing is a must. People get married for different reasons and all of them are important to the people involved.

July 13, 2008

Good post Ariadne. You echo my feelings about marriage 100%.

July 13, 2008

1) What does the vows mean to you? Are they real or fiction? Do they mean anything to you (please explain)?

I think 'vows' are a religious concept only... they mean nothing anymore.. since religion means nothing anymore to a lot of people..

2) What are your concepts of marriage? What does it really mean to you?

This concept is not realistic IMO.. I just can't think that two people can 'swear' to never love anyone else, and be faithful for the rest of their lives.. it's just not reasonable... IMO.

3) How many of you who are or were married, after you got married realized you really did not know what you were in for?

Never got married and never will..

4) Do you believe that it is important to take certain steps prior to marriage to help have better odds for the survival of the marriage (i.e. you and your spouse getting to know each other's family and friends, counseling, sitting down and seriously discussing what are your expectations from the marriage, etc.)? If so, what are they?

n/a

5) What are the things you think are a must in a marriage?

n/a

July 13, 2008

Oops I should have read the posts first.. Ariadne put in much better words what I am thinking of marriage..

July 13, 2008

What I think gets mistaken here is though yes there is a higher divorce rate that does not mean that marriages are necc happier or unhappier than decades past. What has changed is the change in the stigma of divorce. There have always been extra maritial affairs and I would wage that there were actually alot more decades past since divorce was not an option. One just made due in the situation they were in.

Marriages were based more on financial and status reasons so the connection and loyalty was tenious. Yes they family stayed together but the affairs happened.

Marriage may be based, for many, on the words of God, but in reality it is too humans that either communicate well and are can change with the times or not. Many wax on here, with rose tinted lenses, how amazing socity was back in the day and how much more responsible people were in their marriages. But if you look at the famous authors in the previous decades, shoot look at Mary Shelly or Wordsworth, there were gender issues, gay relationships, affairs, etc. Everything we deal with right now.

What has changed is the prioritizing of happiness over status. Status was the top priority for all societies until the recent few decades. Women were groomed to find (or to be set up with) the right husband. Men were groomed with the same idea though each sex had different ideals. It was about advancing each family through the marriage union.

Yes I think our society has issues and we still have a long way to go to happy and healthy unions but I chuckle at the poetic musings of days long gone. They are are really no different than today. Humans are humans and these issues are fundamental issues. There is nothing special about today that hasn't been lamented, argued, fought for/against, etc in centuries past.

The ID versus the EGO has always created drama and thusly amazing acts of literature, art, and war.

July 13, 2008

1) What does the vows mean to you? Are they real or fiction? Do they mean anything to you (please explain)?

Vows are mistakes people make. Because nobody knows what is going to happen in the future. They are not taking changes into account.

No one knows the future. And if we are suppose to make a decision of entering ANY vow (which is the same contract, lease, application or what have you) based on our ability to foresee the future or take into account, EVERY change that happens in the universe, then your right, it is a big mistake. But it is good thing I don't have the power of precognition... how much fun would life be then?

2) What are your concepts of marriage? What does it really mean to you?

Marriage is a deep connection and mutual support and understanding.

3) How many of you who are or were married, after you got married realized you really did not know what you were in for?

I knew what I was in for. And it lasted what it had to last.

4) Do you believe that it is important to take certain steps prior to marriage... If so, what are they?

I believe people should be together for as long as they want to, without any chains or expectations. That way everybody is happy and nobody gets disappointed.

If I had to live like that, then I would not enjoy life. These are the ideals that people who are afraid to live, afraid to take a chance, afraid to be hurt use to define happiness. But, I'll tell you from time immortal, how can one distinguished from what makes someone happy? How can one really determine if they are happy without having sadness or loss? It would be like a me playing chess against an opponent that has no hope in winning. It is those very "chains of expectation" that makes life worth living and loving.

I believe that attitude is the most important.

5) What are the things you think are a must in a marriage?

Nothing is a must. People get married for different reasons and all of them are important to the people involved.

So it is okay that spouse does not have honesty to you? Or that they lie to you, especially on things of life and death? Is it okay they decide that they don't want to work?

Marriage is no different than any other contract we sign. All it is is a binding of what and how the marriage will be conducted. Now, what each partner does is us their talents and abilities to live up to those words. Just like an employee signs a contract with a company, it is expected that for their pay and benefits, this person will show up on time, do their job to the best of their ability, adopt to the way of the company, and to grow with the company. Failing to do so limits the growth of that company (yes one person can affect the growth of any company) and thus the growth of that employee. And vice versa, the more the employee grows, hopefully the company can grow with the employee. Now if the employees is a constant failure and it would be wiser to let that person go, that employee is fired. Or if something happens within that company and that employee can no longer work there, they leave. This is no different with marriage. The company and employee is are those spouses among each other.

DNR

July 13, 2008

1) What does the vows mean to you? Are they real or fiction? Do they mean anything to you (please explain)?

I think 'vows' are a religious concept only... they mean nothing anymore.. since religion means nothing anymore to a lot of people..

Vows are not religious in concept. Never has been and never will be... Vows are the things we use to allow equal/fair exchange and/or interaction between people. Vows were made before ANY established religion.

Not all people are made for religion. And apparently religion still DOES means something because we are still fighting over it (in general). There are more people who are religious than non-religious (this is counting those who are Christian, Muslim, Taoist, Buddhist, a Scientologist, or even a Satanist, Wiccan, or pegan). There are more people who believe, than not, now there might not be a lot of FAITHFUL practicers, that I can see and take note of.

2) What are your concepts of marriage? What does it really mean to you?

This concept is not realistic IMO.. I just can't think that two people can 'swear' to never love anyone else, and be faithful for the rest of their lives.. it's just not reasonable... IMO.

But yet millions do so every year and many of them live up to it for the rest of their lives. We do this in every aspect of our lives. We do it with family members, we do it with friends, we do it with our bosses, we do it even with ourselves. There is a big difference with something being realistic and possible, for there are a lot of men and women who prove you wrong on all accounts (like my Uncle Bill and Aunt Flo who were married for several decades, neither ever cheated or seriously broken a trust and they lasted until they died in their late 60's. He actually died because he had accomplished all that he wanted to in life and did not want to live here without his wife). My aunty and uncle stayed married even after he cheated on her (once) and hit her (once), and though they had their times like ALL couples do, they made it. They were married for over 30 years before he died.

So, are they lying? Have they proven that they were being unreasonable or in capable of doing what you believe is not reasonable or doable?

And I one thing I agree with on is this, if you are not the one to be marrying, don't get married. There is a lot more to life than just getting hitched.

DNR

July 13, 2008

Hi,

What's the point of arguing what people say?

You asked a question and I responded to you.

Is not like you are going to convince me of your views or anybody else.

If anything, the only thing that I get from your posts is that you are desperate for life to come with guarantees.

And it doesn't.

July 13, 2008

A piece of paper doesn't mean poop! If you want to be with someone throughout your life you grin and bare it, tears, blood, and sweat. I think the whole vows thing is great but in the end is if you mean it if you really want to go through with it- it's not what you say it's what's in the heart. There are a lot of happilly unmarried people that have not said thier vows but yet are still together.

1) What does the vows mean to you? Are they real or fiction? Do they mean anything to you (please explain)?

Honestly the saying of the vows don't mean anything to me. I am doing what they say but it's out of my own heart not because someone made up those words in order to obligate you to do so.

2) What are your concepts of marriage? What does it really mean to you?

It means you want to be with someone you love and cherish. You want to spend the rest of your life with them thats what. However now it's all changed people do it for money and have dirtied the word so in the word it means nothing but to me it means what I said just recently.

3) How many of you who are or were married, after you got married realized you really did not know what you were in for?

Hmm. Well my husband and I were already in a commited relationship so really we don't really see the difference between married or not it's just papers. We're still the same , sure we had our share of bumps..well more like mountains, but we still have the same amount of dedication to eachother.

4) Do you believe that it is important to take certain steps prior to marriage to help have better odds for the survival of the marriage (i.e. you and your spouse getting to know each other's family and friends, counseling, sitting down and seriously discussing what are your expectations from the marriage, etc.)? If so, what are they?

Even before getting married, when your even considering the fact of being together forever I sure hope you know eachother's parents, know eachother's values and principals. Anything can be worked out if both parties are willing to do so.

5) What are the things you think are a must in a marriage?

Most definately trust- without it well it's hard to rebuild and tends to focus on other little problems as well. Loyalty and fedlity are a great key. Also to be affectionate and caring of the other person (marriage/relationships slowly die without intimacy).

That my two cents :-)

July 13, 2008

I wasn't arguing. I was pointing out the things I did not believe in. And the things I have come to understand and accept.

It is not a matter of convincing, because people are going to believe what they want. It does not mean you don't voice your opinion or disagreement.

I have no desire to convince you of anything. You are your own person with your own views as I am a person with my own.

Never did I imply vows are an guarantee. Actually I even stated that it is not. When it concerns humankind and this world, all one can do is have faith and trust and when the disappointment does come we find the strength and determination to overcome it how best we need to overcome it. But, now I do expect a spouse to live up to her word as best as she can, as she should expect the same from me. Now, if we can't then we should either work on it or decide to divorce.

DNR

July 13, 2008

The vows are more than just paper. Just like that job policies. Or that bill or law that comes in to effect. We don't live our lives by paper, but our activities ARE measured against what is written. If people don't live up to their vows, many find themselves divorced. I people don't live up to the job policies the vow to follow by taking a job, they get fired. If you perform act that goes against the law, one might find themselves before a judge paying for their failing.

So, the paper IS important and has a meaning, but no, it is not a governor of our actions but a means to determine if we are living within those lines and what should happen if there is a breach.

And now all vows are verbal. Take even a common law marriage. If that man or woman steps out of the bonds they agreed to with their SO, they might find themselves kicked out that person's life. If you don't believe so, see how many long term common law marriages end when there is abuse, cheating, or people just got tired of each other. But, yet they swear to love each other to the bitter end.

DNR

July 13, 2008

Interesting discussion so far... I have no idea what marriage is...

I only know what hollywood wants me to think it is...

and what my parents show me it is.....which is not the best example. It's more like a hostage taking. lol

Gee I wonder why I am not married.... Because the concept terrifies me!!

I understand what the church INTENDED marriage to be... which back in the day was about power, estate and land. Had nothing to do with love. It had to do with ownership, procreation of boys to continue owning the estate. This could be a book so I won't rant on...

I think there is too much of this fantasy crap shoved down our throats in movies, songs, books, magazines etc. With all of this influence it becomes impossible to take any union seriously. I think this is because we show up in the relationship with pre conceived fantasies and stereotypes that cause us to project our fantasy onto the other person instead of getting to know the person for who they really are. Hence, the need to get to KNOW someone before hopping into the sac..

thats my two cents

July 13, 2008

What word are you reading from that marriage is about ownership? Or that it is about the procreation of boys? It sure isn't written in my Bible. And

And marriage in itself is not based on religion. If anything the New Testament says it would be good for people to be single, but should marry for the desire of physical union and childbearing. And that it should be of one wife. But, see that was John's idea (and he states it so clearly that this is not God speaking). As matter of fact, even in the Old Testament God only mentioned the union of a man and woman only once in Genesis 2:24... For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife; and the two shall become one flesh.

All these things about speaking the vows, having a gathering, a ring and whatever each culture has is all man based. This is not to say marriage is bad or the vows are bad. But it is definitely NOT religious base, because ALL cultures from time beginning has/have had rituals that bound two people to one another. Even non-faith driven cultures.

I agree with you on the marriage thing being a scary thing nowadays. Less and less people truly understand what a union is about. Marriages are almost like jobs, we stay in it for a little while and then move on to other places. I am one of the old fashioned guys who wants to be so bounded with my wife that should she pass I could or would ever take on another wife or would die not so long after her without a regret or feeling of loss in dying.

DNR

No long enough or detailed enough... That's only one cent Ms. Sexy Bottom, here's your other cent. (Pants).

July 13, 2008

Vows dont mean crap to anyone and from what I've seen on this board day in and day out it be a cold day in hell for me to ever get married!

July 13, 2008

Vows dont mean crap to anyone and from what I've seen on this board day in and day out it be a cold day in hell for me to ever get married!

Hey Chrome,

If your down, I'm down. Lets join the Church of Latter Day Saints. Not only can we get wives that won't divorce their husbands. We might even be able to get more than one wife.

DNR

Ducks because I just know I am going to get someone who does not understand I am trying to be humorous.

July 13, 2008

LOL. trust me it wont be the cheating, it'll be the nagging to death that will do me in!!! lol.

I can deal with one woman but nothing more than that!

July 13, 2008

Vows dont mean crap to anyone and from what I've seen on this board day in and day out it be a cold day in hell for me to ever get married!

You do realize that you're equally as warped as Woggle, don't you?

Pity!

July 14, 2008

Hey big cat. How is that lion's heart holding out? I pray all is well with you and your loved ones.

DNR

July 14, 2008

You do realize that you're equally as warped as Woggle, don't you?

Pity!

Yeah but here's the thing Wog is married!!! lol.

I'm a good man and I deserve the best but if she cant be the best she can get to stepping.

July 14, 2008

Yeah but here's the thing Wog is married!!! lol.

I'm a good man and I deserve the best but if she cant be the best she can get to stepping.

Yes you do!

But CB, you said, "...it be a cold day in hell for me to ever get married!"

I hope you find her, or she finds you, and you change your tune!

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