TrustInYourself Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 Dude, I am at a point where I am just not happy period. This is the lowest I have ever been. I can't be happy because I have all of this weight on my shoulders. I just want to know what is going on so I can deal with it. I can't stand the unknown. If it's weight, drop it. What are you trying to know? What your wife wants? Maybe she doesn't know what she wants. She sounds confused if she's telling you one thing, and doing the other. My wife acted the same way. I did not come to the conclusion that I needed a divorce based on my wife's behavior or feelings about me. I came to that conclusion based on the way I felt. I was sick of my future relying on a woman who didn't know what she wanted.
Author Maladjusted Posted August 27, 2008 Author Posted August 27, 2008 If it's weight, drop it. What are you trying to know? What your wife wants? Maybe she doesn't know what she wants. She sounds confused if she's telling you one thing, and doing the other. My wife acted the same way. I did not come to the conclusion that I needed a divorce based on my wife's behavior or feelings about me. I came to that conclusion based on the way I felt. I was sick of my future relying on a woman who didn't know what she wanted. You guys are back together though, right?
TrustInYourself Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 Yes and she's on the fast track to trying to make things work.
Author Maladjusted Posted August 27, 2008 Author Posted August 27, 2008 Ha, good for you my friend. Best wishes to you. I am beginning to think that there is still something sinister lurking in the background of things right now.
TrustInYourself Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 Ha, good for you my friend. Best wishes to you. I am beginning to think that there is still something sinister lurking in the background of things right now. Probably because she was dishonest with you? That's an expected feeling. Now that you know it's there, will you still allow it to manipulate your actions? Do you have yourself in control? Can you do it long enough to get what you want? If that's what you want, lol.
pelicanpreacher Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Frankly, because she's preparing a case against you. She's either planning on continuing the affair, or leaving on the premise that YOU are to blame for all the issues in the marriage. She's planning on making a break is my bet. Either running to OM, or "away" from you. Can you think of any OTHER reasons she'd have to do things this way? I'd agree on talking with Dad...but the other half of this needs to be you talking with HIM and explaining the affair and the damage that THAT is causing in your situation. Don't let him try to make this all seem to be your fault...'cause it AIN'T. To add to Owl's perspective you should also brace for the possible announcement that she's pregnant and doesn't know whose baby it is! The fact that she sexed you the following morning after her drunken escapade and became all "lovey dovey" upon your arrival home after entertaining her OM in your home during the time you spent visiting family with your child says you better brace for anything if you engaged her with sex since then. I'd also like to address the debate formerly held regarding access to her cell phone, email, and knowing her whereabouts. I have to come down staunchly on the side of Owl on this instead of SD. The only reason that you might abate your insistence on this issue is if she is trying so hard to make her life transparent that the marginal returns on the effort employed begins to build up such a negative amortization in stress that the negative end results completely countermands the benefits. If, on the other hand, you take the soft and lax approach of requiring no boundaries then you've simply opened the door to more and more and more gaslighting to which she's become an expert in. (especially on the lie about quitting her job) It is evident that she has no problem disrespecting you so you need to establish a firm boundary and set a price to pay for disrespecting your requirements else you may as well set sail on the "SS Ship of Fools" for a fool she will make you and a fool you will be!
Author Maladjusted Posted August 28, 2008 Author Posted August 28, 2008 Well, we finally did sit down and talk last night. I told her that I was basically emotionally spent and I needed to hear about everything that was going on. Here is what she told me. The major problem seems to stem from the fact that we come from very different background, culturally and economically speaking. I came from a white, upper middle class background. She, from a Hispanic poor background. I have had my views regarding illegal immigrants and this country catering to people from other countries instead of forcing them to blend into our American culture (English speaking, etc). I have in the past refused to learn Spanish and have made smart remarks regarding illegal immigration. I also had a very hard time adapting to the state I moved to to be with her. I admit that I haven't made any real attempt to learn the Spanish language or to try and understand her culture. That being said, in her eyes she thought being married to a white man would be different. Instead, she saw that I had never really had to work for anything,I wasn't an independent person, and that I am a snob (ok I can admit to being a bit of that). She had seen other mixed race couples where the man would learn the culture and blend in, whereas I did not. As time went by, her feelings for me eroded. When she met her manager, he basically understood her and she realized she didn't have as much in common with me as she did with him, which allowed for her to be attracted to him and for what happened to happen. I am not saying that what she did was justified, but based on the intense amount of anger I saw in her when she was speaking of this doesn't surprise me. She didn't leave me (seperate) because she saw how weakened I was. My emotional responses have been a turnoff to her. Right now she says she loves me as the father of her son, and loves me to a certain extent. Basically the next 6 months will be spent trying to win back the love that I have lost. She says that what I need to do is change my heart. When I turned to her family, that was a real big turnoff and caused her to lose a lot of respect for me because she viewed what I did as manipulating her family. In turn, I told her that if at the end of next week (when she is off the company payroll) that I will be done with the marriage. She stands by the fact that she has no feelings for the guy. If I see one phone call from him after Friday I am going to call his wife. What she wants to see in me now is to immerse myself in her culture. Learn Spanish, go to church, be the "man" in the family.
Owl Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 OK, let me clarify a few things for you. I lived in Mexico for a good while. I've also spent time in several South American countries. The men in her culture would have kicked her sorry butt out on the curb for sleeping with someone else. At least. I'd also explain to her that cultural blending works BOTH ways. Its unrealistic to marry you EXPECTING YOU TO CHANGE. That was HER mistake, not yours. There is NOTHING wrong with learning more about her culture, and her language. Embrace that as an opportunity. BE the man in the marriage. That means she can't complain about your controlling behavior anymore...because in her culture, the MEN run the show. Stop letting her dictate things...start enforcing boundaries and consequences. At the same time, start rebuilding the marriage. Start dating her again. Start spending time together where you don't talk about the affair, the marriage. Just spend some quality fun time together. This really isn't about culture shock, btw. I don't believe that its about that at all...its centered around her having poor boundaries with her interactions with men outside the marriage (which doesn't happen much in her culture). And she seems to carry one helluva sense of entitlement with her... That's my take on this at least.
Author Maladjusted Posted August 28, 2008 Author Posted August 28, 2008 OK, let me clarify a few things for you. I lived in Mexico for a good while. I've also spent time in several South American countries. The men in her culture would have kicked her sorry butt out on the curb for sleeping with someone else. At least. I'd also explain to her that cultural blending works BOTH ways. Its unrealistic to marry you EXPECTING YOU TO CHANGE. That was HER mistake, not yours. There is NOTHING wrong with learning more about her culture, and her language. Embrace that as an opportunity. BE the man in the marriage. That means she can't complain about your controlling behavior anymore...because in her culture, the MEN run the show. Stop letting her dictate things...start enforcing boundaries and consequences. At the same time, start rebuilding the marriage. Start dating her again. Start spending time together where you don't talk about the affair, the marriage. Just spend some quality fun time together. This really isn't about culture shock, btw. I don't believe that its about that at all...its centered around her having poor boundaries with her interactions with men outside the marriage (which doesn't happen much in her culture). And she seems to carry one helluva sense of entitlement with her... That's my take on this at least. Thanks Owl. What do you mean by entitlement? She was right to a certain extent though. I was pretty closeminded.....
Billy Bob Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Mal, Don't be a doormat.. The walk away spouse always makes up reasons why it is your fault.. Its all BS, she's the one who left the marriage and had an affair. You didn't go out and start screwing another woman because she was more culturally similar and got you better! I personally wouldn't stand for it..
Billy Bob Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 In turn, I told her that if at the end of next week (when she is off the company payroll) that I will be done with the marriage. She stands by the fact that she has no feelings for the guy. If I see one phone call from him after Friday I am going to call his wife. What she wants to see in me now is to immerse myself in her culture. Learn Spanish, go to church, be the "man" in the family. Yeah, she wants you to change so maybe she will love you again.. BS.. grow some nuts and kick her out. Let her scramble to get you back. You are letting her walk all over you. Don't be the doormat. She's still seeing him at work? Why didn't she quit yet? This is nuts buddy, you need to stand back from afar and look at this whole situation again.
SingleDad Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 cta - if everyone followed your advice - everyone would be getting a divorce whenever there were problems with their marraige. Can't just kick 'em to the curb whenever "worse" times occur... especially when there is a 2 yo son involved. There are issues to be worked out and Mal is making great strides hainging in there and doing his best.
Owl Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Entitlement...she thinks you, everyone, the world...OWES her something. She DESERVES something. In this specific case, she's convinced that you owe her a lot of things, like working to become the kind of man she expects from HER culture, rather than being the man that you are. She expects YOU to be the one making all the changes...when SHE was the one who cheated on you.
SingleDad Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Not fair is it !!! She is a spoiled brat - just like my W... anyone who leaves their spouse and takes half of the kid's time away from the other parent is think of themselves and their needs - same as a spouse who has an affair or walks away. I am in the same boat. You either accept it, work on it, help to fix it together and try to compromise to patch up the hole in your marriage... Or you throw in the towel and say it's not worth it - my spouse doesn't deserve any more of me - she's spoiled and selfish and I'm not doing it anymore. When there is a young child that both parents brought into this world together... I am opting to try to fix the marriage... at least to try to do everything I can do on my part to know that I gave it my all and can sleep better at night knowing I can tell my child I didn't give up... even if it meant sacrificing more of myself and allowing my W to be selfish for a while... at least until the patch is dry (and then get back to a balanced relationship) Isn't that what marriage is all about - working together to build a family ? Rather than two selfish individuals doing their own thing (then they shouldn't have gotten married in the first place). Sometimes one spouse is more needy than the other - other times it is the other way around - you just need to work though the hard times. Naive - probably - but I'd feel better about it.
TrustInYourself Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 I guess I'll weigh in on this. Have you noticed what works for you? Understanding, talking with her, and being honest seems to allow her to open up to you. Keep tabs on what is effective in your interactions. Continue to do what is successful. As far as immersing in her culture, make sure those efforts are something that you want to do. Not just a means of appeasing your wife. Sure, if you love her, you'll show a willingness to understand her. But that road goes both ways. You are not Spanish and she should understand and respect that aspect of who you are. I'm not going to even address your wife. Why? It's pointless. It's irrelevant. Is she being reasonable and taking responsibility for her actions? Is she redirecting her guilt and anger on your faults? Are her actions a catalyst for the issues in your marraige now? Hmm..probably? This isn't just about you, Mal. I think it's good though that you can address aspects about yourself that were or are a problem. However, the issue isn't completely with you. If your wife is constantly redirecting anger, pain, suffering, and guilt at you and your actions, she's irresponsibly avoiding the situation she created. I am a firm believer that one person can make an incredibly powerful impact on a relationship, when that person makes inflections and observations to improve themselves. That's where all focus should be in any event. Self reflection and growth. What was my contribution to this relationship? Why should I be loved? What are my weaknesses? What are my strengths? Use the moment to understand yourself more. Face the truth about the situation. Perhaps you were a snob and aloof. Perhaps you were culturally insensitive. Perhaps you are not supportive or caring about those cultural differences. That's who you are. It's a weakness, address it, grow from it, be a better person. Owl, good points. Don't allow her to dictate things. She isn't going to respect you for it. When did she turn around and decide that she wanted to work on things? What was your mindset? How decisive were you? I don't think she ran over you and I don't think you bothered to take too much of her bullcrap. Pelican, you're making assumptions that could be true or false. They're irrelevant. I agree with you though on controlling her contact. If she's concerned about the marriage, she will make her actions and feelings completely transparent. There should be no hidden shadows or lack of honesty. IF there is any doubt of NC with the OM, than you have a right to know everything about her location, interactions, conversations, etc. There should be no reason to argue with you, unless she has something to hide. That should be made clear. I would say something to your statements, SD, but you know what I'm going to say. At least, I hope by now you do.
pelicanpreacher Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Thanks Owl. What do you mean by entitlement? She was right to a certain extent though. I was pretty closeminded..... Though your attitude towards your wife's cultural heritage in juxtaposition to your feelings about her personally raises eyebrows the main issue, as Owl stated, is her perception of you as a man. Her cultural background is focused on a patriarchal society where machismo is honored and respected as high qualities in a man. The man is expected to dominate the household, show fearlessness in the protection of his wife and children, and be the primary, if not only, wage earner who makes all decisions about how money is spent, how time is spent, and how lives are spent. In reading through your posts I can see how she perceived you as less than befitting in your role as head of the household. Your attitude and opinions regarding her race and culture were not only insulting but also downright crippling to her self-esteem! It's no wonder she found herself looking for your replacement for, without the child, you really do have very little in common. I'm still skeptical about many of her intentions right now for she may need you, if only for the fact that she's gotten in over her head doing something she shouldn't have and now must, at the very least, maintain a relationship for financial support. As Owl's pointed out, you know what to do, and I'll add that you know what your role was in this situation. The question that begs is what are you going to do about it? You've got so much to change and think about that, realistically, you should be farther apart than SD but for some strange reason I believe you when you state that she still loves you, may be not in love with you, but doesn't want to hurt you either. Whether its the former reason or the latter one, maybe you still have enough to rebuild on if you can get past the betrayal(s).
SingleDad Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 I would say something to your statements, SD, but you know what I'm going to say. At least, I hope by now you do. I think so - It's all about self examination - learning from it, growing from it, being better for it. I think that is ultimately important. By fixing yourself, you have a chance to fix your marriage... don't be a doormat... but I also believe that we make mistakes that lead our spouses astray... And if you have conviction for your beliefs and vows... you will realize that we may need to do 180 reversal of our actions and behaviors to stop pushing our spouse farther away. (in my case - as my W is too far gone... my 180 is just to be friendly and understanding and that's it) Kind of a dual role.
TrustInYourself Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Though your attitude towards your wife's cultural heritage in juxtaposition to your feelings about her personally raises eyebrows the main issue, as Owl stated, is her perception of you as a man. Her cultural background is focused on a patriarchal society where machismo is honored and respected as high qualities in a man. The man is expected to dominate the household, show fearlessness in the protection of his wife and children, and be the primary, if not only, wage earner who makes all decisions about how money is spent, how time is spent, and how lives are spent. In reading through your posts I can see how she perceived you as less than befitting in your role as head of the household. Your attitude and opinions regarding her race and culture were not only insulting but also downright crippling to her self-esteem! It's no wonder she found herself looking for your replacement for, without the child, you really do have very little in common. I'm still skeptical about many of her intentions right now for she may need you, if only for the fact that she's gotten in over her head doing something she shouldn't have and now must, at the very least, maintain a relationship for financial support. As Owl's pointed out, you know what to do, and I'll add that you know what your role was in this situation. The question that begs is what are you going to do about it? You've got so much to change and think about that, realistically, you should be farther apart than SD but for some strange reason I believe you when you state that she still loves you, may be not in love with you, but doesn't want to hurt you either. Whether its the former reason or the latter one, maybe you still have enough to rebuild on if you can get past the betrayal(s). Handle bar moustache. Nuff said.
TrustInYourself Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 I think so - It's all about self examination - learning from it, growing from it, being better for it. I think that is ultimately important. By fixing yourself, you have a chance to fix your marriage... don't be a doormat... but I also believe that we make mistakes that lead our spouses astray... And if you have conviction for your beliefs and vows... you will realize that we may need to do 180 reversal of our actions and behaviors to stop pushing our spouse farther away. (in my case - as my W is too far gone... my 180 is just to be friendly and understanding and that's it) Kind of a dual role. No your wife is not too far gone. You know what you should do. Why do you hesitate? Thread hi-jack.
SingleDad Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 No your wife is not too far gone. You know what you should do. Why do you hesitate? Thread hi-jack. continuing the hijack... I am not sure exactly what to do for myself ... Understand her emotional needs, complete the questionnaire on her, be friendly and understanding if we talk (avoid any neediness, clinginess, arguments)- and mostly work on myself - get a life - learn how to appreciate my own qualities. Baby Steps... Wish I could be more pro-active with interactions with W - But I know I can't... I have to detach
Author Maladjusted Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 Hi Owl, I am here. Thanks for checking on me. This weekend was actually really good. We went out again on Saturday night and had a blast. Nothing really new to report other than the fact that things seem to be heading in the right direction as far as I can tell. She tells me she loves me and I believe it. My thing is I still have unanswered questions about everything that happened but I am not sure if I will really get answers to them or not anytime soon. I don't really believe the story she fed to me about him was completely true but the jist of it is: she was unhappy with marriage. I guess I need to focus on what is important, which is getting my marriage back to where it needs to be. From what I can tell she is starting to do her part to get it that way too. I forgive the cheating, but what is harder to let go of are the lies I was told and the fact that this guy was in my damn house. That will take me longer to let go of.
Owl Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 If she never tells you the full and complete truth, you'll NEVER be able to rebuild your trust in her. Bottom line. And you need to tell her that point blank. The biggest hurt and devestation from an affair are the lies and deception. The only way to get past them is to get the full and complete truth from her about what happened, and from her going forward. She's destroyed and betrayed your trust in her...she's SHOWED you that she's not trustworthy...you'd be a FOOL to trust her right now. The only way for that to change is for her to start PROVING to you that she's trustworthy NOW, and GOING FORWARD. Lying or hiding the past will NOT accomplish that...it'll prevent that from ever happening. Dude...stand up for your marriage, and for yourself. Remember...that's what she needs to see from you is someone she can respect. She can't respect someone who'll just sit there and accept her lies.
Author Maladjusted Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 How do I know the truth from the lie? Maybe she is telling me the truth and I just believe that they are lies because of all of the lies in the past.
Owl Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 That's part of the reason that BS's tend to ask the same questions over and over and over... They're looking for holes in the story. What proof is she giving you that she's different NOW? Is she openly willing to discuss the affair, even if its painful for her? Is she understanding of your need to know the truth? Has she provided you full access to her email/text/phone so that you can SEE that the affair is ended? Has she provided phone/text/email records that backup her statements? Has she removed OM from all of her contact lists? Changed email accounts? Take ACTIVE measures to prevent contact from him going forward? Has she indicated to you that she really "gets it" when it comes to understanding just how horribly she's devestated you by her affair? Has she shown willingness to rebuild the marriage by going to marriage counseling? See a trend? This is what needs to be happening.
Recommended Posts