Seperation uncertain

[SingleDad]

Mal - realize that your W has been in her own agony - in her own world - in her own mind. Since her youth, she has built up in her mind certain expectations of what marriage would be like, how she would be in love forever, and live happy for ever after.

 

Life doesn't work that way in the real world. There are conflicts, challenges, arguments - and a young child that is much more work and stress than she ever expected - all tearing away from her dream. She is still clinging on to her dream and thinking that she can still get it as she is still young.

 

Realize that is what she wants.... Yet in her mind you had your chance - and you aren't her dream !! Any loud overt actions are just seen by her as final desperate measures by you so you don't drown.

 

It will take months of silent subtle acts of kindness and love - acts which will seem to have little impact on her - and get no appreciation in return.

 

Focus all of your attention on becoming her best friend (and the best, loving, helpful father a man can be). No overt acts of love... just be the closest friend she cannot be without... (then love will sneak its way back in...without her suspecting it... Ha Ha).

 

If you are willing so do it (knowing there is a huge risk it won't work to win her love back) - then keep doing it... But also know that it is also the best thing you can do for your son. Even if a divorce still happens - you will be friends with you sonn' mother... So in the end it is worth it.

[Maladjusted]

I guess what makes it so hard is how much I sacrificed to get here, and she has no caring for what I am going through. Everything seems to be her, her, her. Maybe she will blame me for the way I have been acting, and maybe she won't. I don't know.

 

I guess even an apology to her for accusations of cheating, some manipulation on my part, has only driven her away further and won't mean anything to her.

 

I love her so much and I wish I could right all the wrongs but I guess I can't. I am the focus of all her frustrations at the moment. Now I just feel bad that I haven't listened at all to what anyone has been telling me and she probably has more reasons now then ever before to leave me.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Best friend??? WTF?

 

I would not be friends with a woman who treated me like crap and didnt get help to settle her issues. who ran out on her marriage!

 

Do a 180 and find someone else, because your damned if you do, damned if you dont. There are much better women out there without baggage.

 

Focus on yourself. Get yourself better. Trust me going dark and a hard 180 and getting a life, working out, finding friends, staying busy will get your mind off of her.

 

I could not be friends with a woman who hurt me bad. No matter how much we was together. Why be friends with a woman who hurt him???

 

Friends dont hurt other friends!

[Maladjusted]

She did tell me that she wanted to see a psychologist while I was gone. Whether she is going to do that or not, I don't know.

 

I really have no interest in finding anyone else, ever again. I have wasted too much time in my life on relationships where the woman is wonderful in the beginning and deteriorates into what I am dealing with right now. I don't know if it is me or them. I dated and slept with more women than any man has a right to and the thought of going back to that bachelor's life makes me ill.

 

Our relationship was long distance and allowed me to build a bond with her that wasn't based on simple lust. She views it now as being "fake". She has tried to tear everything about me and my family down for what reasons I don't know.

[SingleDad]

Mal - you do have a choice here - the hardest decision you will ever make.

 

You can listen to Chrome's advice and just run to a new life.

 

Or you can work on being friends with your W and start from scratch - for the benefit of your son.

 

You can always work on your marriage for 6 months or so and then throw in the towel if things just plain don't work and at least know in you heart that you put in your best effort.

 

But if you throw in the towel now, you will likely never be close enough to co-parent with your XW.

[Maladjusted]

Why be friends with a woman who hurt him???

 

Friends dont hurt other friends!

 

I must have a working relationship with her for my son's sake. If I didn't love her I wouldn't have given up my friends and family and moved to where I am now.

[Maladjusted]

You can always work on your marriage for 6 months or so and then throw in the towel if things just plain don't work and at least know in you heart that you put in your best effort.

 

I doubt I will have that long. As soon as she makes up her mind (which I think she already has she is just trying to figure out how to do it) she will tell me.

 

For me, I already wish I could leave. I don't want my son to see his Dad in such pain. I have lost over 25 lbs in the past month alone and I don't sleep. I feel a shadow of my former self. It is so surreal to have someone tell you that the marriage you thought was great has been pretty much a waste of time but they still want you to be a sperm donor.

[Chrome Barracuda]

That Bullcrap SD!!!

 

You can be co-parents without being friends. You can be coridal to your ex without being their friend why be all up under them when they just gonna crap all over you again and again.

 

Mal listen your relationships didnt work out, mines didnt either. but I got alot of self esteem to deal with any woman, why because I focused on making myself better and came to a place where I was happy within myself.

 

I could not go back to a relationship or even trying to be with a woman that hurt me like this woman hurt you. SD wants to start from scratch? For what?

 

Only you SD would want to reconsider reconsiling with an emotional abusive woman. not knowing that inner confidence attracts women to you. You wont have inner confidence if your self esteem is constantly stepped on! Screw that!

 

Yu gave up your friends and family for what? You can be co-parents without being friends. Friendly yes. friends, hell no!!!

[SingleDad]

I went from 198 to 168 in the first month - a pound a day - then lost another 5 lbs in the next month. I was in complete anguish... we were competing for our daughter... my daughter would say "no mommy do it"... I would keel over and fall to the ground in anguish right then and there. That was in February.

 

But still I do not want to give up. Wait until you are alone in an apartment - looking at empty walls. Longing for the minutes and days to pass so you can have another chance to see your son.

 

You need to persevere through this - I have never said it would be easy.

[Maladjusted]

 

Wait until you are alone in an apartment - looking at empty walls. Longing for the minutes and days to pass so you can have another chance to see your son.

 

You need to persevere through this - I have never said it would be easy.

 

This is my biggest fear. Knowing she is out there without any kind of regard for me after all I have done to be with her, my son not seeing his Dad every day. I don't expect adulation, just her to acknowledge the love and selflessness I displayed in doing everything I have done.

[Chrome Barracuda]

This is my biggest fear. Knowing she is out there without any kind of regard for me after all I have done to be with her, my son not seeing his Dad every day. I don't expect adulation, just her to acknowledge the love and selflessness I displayed in doing everything I have done.

 

Well keep waiting because it could be years before she actually admits to her issues to you. and want your forgiveness in seeking help.

 

I been alone before and you know what, after that lonely feeling goes away you start to feel better. The moment you reach acceptance. The moment you start to move on and work on yourself filling the hole that in your heart with self love and self esteem and self respect?

 

You will be better.

 

I dont think it's worth it to put your heart out there again for her. She aint worth it. the woman you fell in love with is gone and she may never come back. I am a man that considers all angles all sides to the situation.

 

and all these stories here on this board have the WAW not coming back!!!

[Maladjusted]

That is what my counselor told me. He said the woman I am with now is not the woman I married. I tell myself not to care, but I can't help it. I tell myself what will be, will be. Will she miss me? I doubt it. She has built up a wall of negativity about me that may never be brought down.

[SingleDad]

Mal - you will not get any words of appreciation from her whatsoever. If you expect them, you will be disappointed.

 

You have do what you think is right for yourself and your son.

[Maladjusted]

Well, she still asks me to do little things for her like put gas in her car and deposit checks, and I do them and she is appreciative......she says thank you anyways.

[Maladjusted]

You have do what you think is right for yourself and your son.

 

What would be right for my son is to give his mom time to sort out the feelings in her head. I agree that that may take a very long time to do though. Like someone else said, she has built up a wall around her heart and I can't break it.

 

She told me once that she is so cold to me because she is trying to protect her heart. I think that is why she is telling everyone that she will be fine, I will be fine, and the baby will be fine. I know that deep down she is really suffering too. We have both lost a lot of weight. Funny thing is she is eating normally and I am not.

[SingleDad]

Mal - look at my posting on 12 mo separation - just had a conversation minutes ago with my W that I just posted there.... This is a conversation you will want to have with your W later.... when the time is right in your situation - which may likely months from now. She must be in a place where she will listen and believe you - and at a time where you are not seen as being desperate. I am 4 or 5 months further down the road than wher you are now.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I think you should do whatever it is to take care of your kid on your own. Dont be so open to help her. Stop doing small errands. I know you still love her but in the end. she aint making any moves to come back towards you are you still gonna wait forever. Let her deal with her own issues.

 

 

If it aint got nothing to do wth your son, keep it moving!

 

I'd be hard pressed to help a woman and to baby her after she hurt me. I'd let her feel the consequences of her actions. She wants to be apart then she can deal with it on her own.

 

I know you wanna help but you cannot and should not be a doormat.

[Ladyjane14]

I doubt I will have that long. As soon as she makes up her mind (which I think she already has she is just trying to figure out how to do it) she will tell me.

 

For me, I already wish I could leave. I don't want my son to see his Dad in such pain. I have lost over 25 lbs in the past month alone and I don't sleep. I feel a shadow of my former self. It is so surreal to have someone tell you that the marriage you thought was great has been pretty much a waste of time but they still want you to be a sperm donor.

 

 

First and foremost... you've GOT to pull yourself together. Eat right, sleep right, get the appropriate amount of exercise, and avoid alcohol. You're no good to your son, your marriage, or yourself if you get so run down you can't think straight. CLARITY OF MIND is an absolute necessity in times of great crisis.

 

Remember... this is NOT the end of the world, no matter what the eventual outcome of the marriage. So... put it in perspective and then, as Owl said, get a plan and start working it.

 

 

I'm going to be up front with you and put this right up on the table... I don't approve of "trial separations". I think, pound for pound, that this is a technique which is more likely to exacerbate the existing strife by ADDING more problems. If the "trial separation" can be avoided, to my mind... it SHOULD be avoided.

 

You can't control people though, Mal. You can only control yourself. So, if she wants to go, you can't stop her. But... that doesn't mean you have to agree in advance to take her back if she decides that the grass isn't always greener. ALL the crap she has complained about, "not enough money", "missing time with her son" is only going to get WORSE when you're split into two households, right? Separating isn't going to solve those problems unless her separation plans involve running back home to Mama and Daddy so they can support her. Really, if she can't get by WITH you in financial terms, how's she going to get by on just the little bit of child support you'd have to pay???

 

Here's the deal though... when a woman feels like she's doing IT ALL anyway, she's going to think to herself, "Why am I putting up with any crap from this man". You might not agree with her viewpoint (of doing it all)... but perception is reality as it applies to emotion. If she FEELS like the burden is all on her, then that's the truth she responds to emotionally.

 

In tandem with all this, "the blush is off the rose". The initial infatuation that pulled you two together has faded, and even become "rewritten" in her memory. The idea that there was never any attraction doesn't stand the sniff test in the very FACT that you two are married with a child. There MUST have been something at some point, right?

 

At the end of the day though, Infatuation is NOT real love. Real love isn't a chemical rush from the adrenals. It's about ACTION. It's about comforting, and caring for another person as much as you care for yourself if not more. This girl doesn't have TIME for love though. She's too stressed out and exhausted. Now, it's possible that she doesn't even know what real love is all about, except as it applies to a parent's love for a child. To be honest, I went until I was nearly 40 before pondering on the matter. And when my kids were babies... my husband couldn't do anything right either.

 

But, it's okay to love imperfect people. Fact is, we wouldn't have anybody to love at all if it required perfection. At 25, who's to know that she won't grow into emotional maturity and get all this stuff sorted out. My point is, that just because she's giving you grief and telling you she wants out... doesn't mean that she's a bad risk for you or that the situation isn't completely recoverable. She might not be perfect, but she hasn't proved herself to be defective either. LOTS of women really get agitated with their mates when the kids are babies and the stress is high.

 

The trick to a husband's survival during all this though... is to not walk around with a bullseye on his forehead. She's going to blame you for EVERYTHING that's wrong in her life. But that doesn't make it true. This is an irrational response to stress on her part. So, why try to make rational sense out something that's essentially irrational? Why take it all so much to heart as if her emotional upheaval was truly about YOU when it's extremely unlikely that it is?

 

Your best bet, IMO... is to SLOW DOWN and try to get some perspective. She's not leaving until she actually leaves. Try to keep some serenity in the household.. and STOP bugging her about how she feels. She'll tell you when she's ready to talk about it.

 

 

Now, here's where I become a bit of a bully...

If my spouse wants to leave me, well... it's not like I've got him chained up in the basement of anything. He knows where the door is. But, I'm NOT going to assist him in breaking up our family. And I'm NOT going to take him back if he hurts me like that. That may be me and not you, but just as I value HIM, I also value ME.

 

If you want to know what I'd do if I were you though (kind of the point of a forum like this, huh?)... I'd wait until she pushes the point, and then I'd offer her a good compromise so that she gets more of what she wants from marriage and family life. If it's about money so she can spend more time with the baby, I'd change jobs for better pay, find ways to drastically cut expenses, or even take that second job. If it's about church, I'd get my butt up every Sunday morning and not only go... but be excited and supportive about it. I'd address ALL her issues.

 

But if it's just about "test-driving" the single life, with an abandoned husband holding up a safety net... I'd divorce her out of hand. And hell no, I wouldn't donate any more sperm either.

 

Ultimatums are something you have to MEAN. You have to be prepared to carry it through. So, think carefully before you act. But if it was me... I'd give her time to sort herself out and for things to calm down. I'd put my best foot forward every day and let her observe the positives of hearth and home. But... when pushed to the wall, I'd offer ALL or NOTHING. And I'd mean it too.

 

This whole thing has caused TERRIBLE emotional pain for you. It's been unfair that her angst has been at your expense.

It's forgivable, of course, but only to a point. And each of us has our own 'point of no return', the point at which the "love bank" is broken into a thousand tiny shards and can't be glued back together. The trick to reconciliation is to get things well in hand BEFORE that point.

 

This is the value of 'The Ultimatum'. ...to force a resolution BEFORE the love is gone.

 

But think it through carefully. It's not a gambit. You absolutely HAVE to be prepared to live with the consequences either way.

[Maladjusted]

I think you should do whatever it is to take care of your kid on your own. Dont be so open to help her. Stop doing small errands. I know you still love her but in the end. she aint making any moves to come back towards you are you still gonna wait forever. Let her deal with her own issues.

 

 

If it aint got nothing to do wth your son, keep it moving!

 

I'd be hard pressed to help a woman and to baby her after she hurt me. I'd let her feel the consequences of her actions. She wants to be apart then she can deal with it on her own.

 

I know you wanna help but you cannot and should not be a doormat.

 

I won't be a doormat, but at the same time I will do the little things that I have always done for her. When she is on her own, then I will not do those little things anymore.

 

I still have hope, even though the situation is pretty damn bleak. She told me yesterday that these problems that are going on are major, major problems. When she fires off mean comments about my family I just tell her that I am sorry that she feels that way and that my family does love her....however I think she feels that even my family is trying to manipulate her too.

[Ladyjane14]

. She told me yesterday that these problems that are going on are major, major problems.

 

Then how come they sound about the same as those of any other young married couple with small children and just starting out???

[Maladjusted]

First and foremost... you've GOT to pull yourself together. Eat right, sleep right, get the appropriate amount of exercise, and avoid alcohol. You're no good to your son, your marriage, or yourself if you get so run down you can't think straight. CLARITY OF MIND is an absolute necessity in times of great crisis.

 

Remember... this is NOT the end of the world, no matter what the eventual outcome of the marriage. So... put it in perspective and then, as Owl said, get a plan and start working it.

 

 

I'm going to be up front with you and put this right up on the table... I don't approve of "trial separations". I think, pound for pound, that this is a technique which is more likely to exacerbate the existing strife by ADDING more problems. If the "trial separation" can be avoided, to my mind... it SHOULD be avoided.

 

You can't control people though, Mal. You can only control yourself. So, if she wants to go, you can't stop her. But... that doesn't mean you have to agree in advance to take her back if she decides that the grass isn't always greener. ALL the crap she has complained about, "not enough money", "missing time with her son" is only going to get WORSE when you're split into two households, right? Separating isn't going to solve those problems unless her separation plans involve running back home to Mama and Daddy so they can support her. Really, if she can't get by WITH you in financial terms, how's she going to get by on just the little bit of child support you'd have to pay???

 

Here's the deal though... when a woman feels like she's doing IT ALL anyway, she's going to think to herself, "Why am I putting up with any crap from this man". You might not agree with her viewpoint (of doing it all)... but perception is reality as it applies to emotion. If she FEELS like the burden is all on her, then that's the truth she responds to emotionally.

 

In tandem with all this, "the blush is off the rose". The initial infatuation that pulled you two together has faded, and even become "rewritten" in her memory. The idea that there was never any attraction doesn't stand the sniff test in the very FACT that you two are married with a child. There MUST have been something at some point, right?

 

At the end of the day though, Infatuation is NOT real love. Real love isn't a chemical rush from the adrenals. It's about ACTION. It's about comforting, and caring for another person as much as you care for yourself if not more. This girl doesn't have TIME for love though. She's too stressed out and exhausted. Now, it's possible that she doesn't even know what real love is all about, except as it applies to a parent's love for a child. To be honest, I went until I was nearly 40 before pondering on the matter. And when my kids were babies... my husband couldn't do anything right either.

 

But, it's okay to love imperfect people. Fact is, we wouldn't have anybody to love at all if it required perfection. At 25, who's to know that she won't grow into emotional maturity and get all this stuff sorted out. My point is, that just because she's giving you grief and telling you she wants out... doesn't mean that she's a bad risk for you or that the situation isn't completely recoverable. She might not be perfect, but she hasn't proved herself to be defective either. LOTS of women really get agitated with their mates when the kids are babies and the stress is high.

 

The trick to a husband's survival during all this though... is to not walk around with a bullseye on his forehead. She's going to blame you for EVERYTHING that's wrong in her life. But that doesn't make it true. This is an irrational response to stress on her part. So, why try to make rational sense out something that's essentially irrational? Why take it all so much to heart as if her emotional upheaval was truly about YOU when it's extremely unlikely that it is?

 

Your best bet, IMO... is to SLOW DOWN and try to get some perspective. She's not leaving until she actually leaves. Try to keep some serenity in the household.. and STOP bugging her about how she feels. She'll tell you when she's ready to talk about it.

 

 

Now, here's where I become a bit of a bully...

If my spouse wants to leave me, well... it's not like I've got him chained up in the basement of anything. He knows where the door is. But, I'm NOT going to assist him in breaking up our family. And I'm NOT going to take him back if he hurts me like that. That may be me and not you, but just as I value HIM, I also value ME.

 

If you want to know what I'd do if I were you though (kind of the point of a forum like this, huh?)... I'd wait until she pushes the point, and then I'd offer her a good compromise so that she gets more of what she wants from marriage and family life. If it's about money so she can spend more time with the baby, I'd change jobs for better pay, find ways to drastically cut expenses, or even take that second job. If it's about church, I'd get my butt up every Sunday morning and not only go... but be excited and supportive about it. I'd address ALL her issues.

 

But if it's just about "test-driving" the single life, with an abandoned husband holding up a safety net... I'd divorce her out of hand. And hell no, I wouldn't donate any more sperm either.

 

Ultimatums are something you have to MEAN. You have to be prepared to carry it through. So, think carefully before you act. But if it was me... I'd give her time to sort herself out and for things to calm down. I'd put my best foot forward every day and let her observe the positives of hearth and home. But... when pushed to the wall, I'd offer ALL or NOTHING. And I'd mean it too.

 

This whole thing has caused TERRIBLE emotional pain for you. It's been unfair that her angst has been at your expense.

It's forgivable, of course, but only to a point. And each of us has our own 'point of no return', the point at which the "love bank" is broken into a thousand tiny shards and can't be glued back together. The trick to reconciliation is to get things well in hand BEFORE that point.

 

This is the value of 'The Ultimatum'. ...to force a resolution BEFORE the love is gone.

 

But think it through carefully. It's not a gambit. You absolutely HAVE to be prepared to live with the consequences either way.

 

I have been getting exercise but I cannot sleep and I am not really hungry. I have to force myself to eat. Last night when I was trying to sleep I just kept wondering about what her sister and her manager at work are telling her. I had half a mind to contact him myself and ask him how he'd feel if I was giving his wife advice.....but I know it takes two to tango.

 

I know I can only control myself. If she chooses to leave, I will simply tell her that if that is what will make her happy then I support it. I will not have any conversations about getting back together unless she says so. I have more than said my piece. As it is, I am in no mind to date anytime soon so it matters little to me. If she intends on dating though I will ask for a divorce.

 

Thats the truth of it right there. She probably could get by on her own but it would be tough. I think she would have to have a roommate.

 

I agree that it seems that she doesn't have time for love.

 

How do I deal with her when she starts to attack me?

 

I will stop bugging her about how she feels. I truly am done doing that. Quite frankly, I am probably more tired of asking than she is of me asking.

 

What do you mean that you aren't going to assist in breaking up the family?

 

I have already offered to do the things she wants me to do. Our counselor told me that she isn't interested in quitting her job. I already have a fairly good job despite the fact that I am still working on my bachelors degree.

 

She told me she doesn't want to live the "single life" she just wants to be alone. I don't know if I believe that or not.

 

I am not really a big believer in forcing people to do something, thus an Ulitmatum wouldn't work for me.

[Maladjusted]

Then how come they sound about the same as those of any other young married couple with small children and just starting out???

 

She thinks they are deeper than that. It was kind of like SingleDad said. She expected to feel a certain way about marriage and she isn't. She feels that she didn't take enough time for herself to know who she really is. She told me a few times that the problem wasn't me, it was her. She told me that it is the marriage itself that is depressing her.

 

I think that she is trying to look for reasons to leave but not really any reasons to stay. I don't think she thought I would put up a big fight for her quite honestly.

[SingleDad]

It is putting up the BIG FIGHT to keep them that shows them how much you really love them. There is your first big hurdle.

 

My W thought I would be rushing to sign the papers. Instead she learned that I wasn't... But it will still take months and years of fighting for her to try to win her back... and not out of desperation or loneliness... fight to win her back because she is the best thing to ever happen to me.

[Ladyjane14]

What you guys don't seem to be understanding in your selflessness... is that what you're responding to is essentially EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL.

 

This is like on RSM's thread where he tells us he doesn't have a choice. He DOES have a choice and so do you. Part of having respect for somebody is that they DON'T let you pull a bulls*t number on them... that they respect themselves, and that they're not willing to lie down like a rug and be walked on.

 

SD... it's not your insistence on holding on to the marriage that "proves your love". Your love is shown by your actions, that's true. But allowing her to destroy you isn't a loving action. She hurts HERSELF when she hurts YOU, guys.

Because if you let her hurt you enough, there's NO GOING BACK. This is why you don't allow a partner to damage you past your ability to bounce back.

[Maladjusted]

So if I am correct LadyJane I should give her a period of say, six months of seperation to see if she wants to come back or not?