Ronni_W Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Maybe I'm misunderstanding, Yep, I see where I am causing confusion . The best way I can explain it (or, at least, HOPE to explain it a bit better) is: my personal belief is that forgiveness is a spiritual thing. Apologies and making amends are human things. NOT that making proper amends and giving heartfelt apologies are not important -- they are incredibly so to human relationships. But I don't make my forgiveness (of self or other) dependent on external factors and influences, simply because I have no control over those. I refuse to relinquish my personal control over my power to forgive, I mean. Good lawd - that might be even MORE confusing! But it's the best I can do at the moment . (Hope it helps, somewhat.)
critter909 Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 One of the things I am struggling with is forgiving myself. It seems like all the bad things I did in the whole 10 years keep running through my mind. I suppose this is a stage of coping.
Ronni_W Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 One of the things I am struggling with is forgiving myself. Critter, the thing that I seem to keep having to return to is the FACT that I did the best that I could at the time. Yes, I lacked effective coping skills, yes I was dysfunctional 89 ways to Sunday, yes I left havoc in my wake, but...I really did give the best that was in me, at any given point, in whatever specific situation. And then I just keep reminding myself that I AM doing better more often than not, and I intend to continue to do that. I have NOTHING else to offer myself about this -- I can't change the past -- so I this had better be enough for me...and it is! Sending Love and Light.
ianandris Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 One of the things I am struggling with is forgiving myself. It seems like all the bad things I did in the whole 10 years keep running through my mind. I suppose this is a stage of coping. It is, and you need to let remorse run its course, but there comes a point when you just can't really feel any worse about what you did. If you've learned from your mistakes, and you are trying not to make the same mistakes again, and you've already felt as bad as you can feel about them, it's time to take a step back, figuratively throw your arm over your shoulders and tell yourself, "Sure, you screwed, up, but you're all right. You're a good person and I still love you." We say such mean things to ourselves, and it really isn't fair. We've got to spend the rest of our lives with ourselves, we might as well try to have a good relationship, right? Plus, if we can forgive ourselves, it's a lot easier to forgive other people. To thine own self be true, right? Forgiving is just another word for accepting, in my opinion.
critter909 Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Thanks guys! My rational self knows that it's not all my fault, in fact it's mostly not my fault, he is an alcoholic. But my emotional, depressed, lonely self who loves and misses him thinks about all the dumb things I said and did. It's getting better though and yes I need to forgive myself, I need to to move on.
ianandris Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Critter, just love yourself. When you love yourself, it's easier to forgive yourself. Plus, when you love yourself, it's easier to be alone when you need to be, because you're spending time with someone who cares about you. Love yourself, love yourself, love yourself. It's the quickest way to heal.
bentnotbroken Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 For those who were dumped or cheated on, do you forgive? Do you let them know you want to forgive them? I believe that forgiveness is about you, and not the other person - it shows that you're not the victim, and moving on. At the same time, it's hard to do.. Makes you feel weak, and compromising. As hurt as I am. She thinks I will always hate her, but as angry and disappointed I am. She was my first true love, and I can't allow myself to think that all my years with her were a waste. I want to forgive her. You're right. Forgiveness is about my relationship with Christ, not my relationship with Mr. Messy. I forgave him and the ow because I am forgiven by Christ. But it made me feel strong and powerful, by not letting me sink to their level of hating me so much, that I am willing to hurt them.
orangehose Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 And for those of you who say forgiveness is for YOU - I'm quite happy thinking this woman is a bad person. It doesn't keep me from being happy around good people. Exactly the same feeling here - perhaps it's my defense mechanism of the past few weeks, but I'm quite content to sit with the conclusion that my ex is a pretty bad person (or at least, a person who acts in pretty bad ways - who cares what is going on internally, if the output is bad). In fact I secretly relish my ex's apparent lack of remorse - makes me feel lucky to have lost such a person!
orangehose Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 I want to forgive her. A part of me admires your nobility, even as I have no qualms about not forgiving my ex. But I have to agree with some of the other posters here that it's WAAAAAAAYYYYY too early for forgiveness. I mean, maybe you're the exception to the rule, but usually it's really helpful / necessary to go through a phase of anger. Anger is generally part of the grief process.
bentnotbroken Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 Yep, I see where I am causing confusion . The best way I can explain it (or, at least, HOPE to explain it a bit better) is: my personal belief is that forgiveness is a spiritual thing. Apologies and making amends are human things. NOT that making proper amends and giving heartfelt apologies are not important -- they are incredibly so to human relationships. But I don't make my forgiveness (of self or other) dependent on external factors and influences, simply because I have no control over those. I refuse to relinquish my personal control over my power to forgive, I mean. Good lawd - that might be even MORE confusing! But it's the best I can do at the moment . (Hope it helps, somewhat.) You did great at explaining.
kizik Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 Usually it's really helpful / necessary to go through a phase of anger. Anger is generally part of the grief process. Rep has shown a few glimpses of anger, but then it's "I want to forgive her." Rep, remember how you betrayed you felt, how irresponsible and disrespectful she is to already be with someone else. Would a "perfect" woman have gone and gotten with another guy in such a short amount of time. What a needy ho. What a superficial rebound bitch. F*ck that girl. Go ahead and get pissed, she's a real tricky one, that narcissistic daddy's girl.
Author replicator Posted July 11, 2008 Author Posted July 11, 2008 Rep has shown a few glimpses of anger, but then it's "I want to forgive her." Rep, remember how you betrayed you felt, how irresponsible and disrespectful she is to already be with someone else. Would a "perfect" woman have gone and gotten with another guy in such a short amount of time. What a needy ho. What a superficial rebound bitch. F*ck that girl. Go ahead and get pissed, she's a real tricky one, that narcissistic daddy's girl. At work today, I felt so enraged.. Like I've never felt angrier in my life, and a megaton was exploding bomb inside my chest. I had to keep reminding myself to breathe deeply, but my heart so ached, it was nuts. The pain in my chest has been there all day. The pain is in a physical form. I am angry, and I'm so glad I didn't tell her that I forgave her. Whenever there was conflict with her, I wanted to make peace, and this was the same thing. I just remember the nice things about her, and it makes me rationalize in my mind. I try to make myself believe that she made a mistake, and that she is human. I trusted her so much, it's hard to believe she did what she did. Though she may not have meant to, she damaged me so badly. I've been losing lots of hair over this, which is even stressing me out more.
confused and broken Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 Forgiveness is something that you need to move on... You don't need to tell anyone it is just something that you find in your heart Remember we are all only human
Author replicator Posted July 11, 2008 Author Posted July 11, 2008 Forgiveness is something that you need to move on... You don't need to tell anyone it is just something that you find in your heart Remember we are all only human I'm generally a forgiving person. I can forgive for many things, but so many lies. If only she had been honest with me... Some things I didn't mention in this thread - but let's just say she lied. I never once lied to her the whole ten years. I was so faithful to her. This experience makes me question everything. Love, monogamy, trust, loyalty. It almost doesn't seem worth the pain.
confused and broken Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 I'm generally a forgiving person. I can forgive for many things, but so many lies. If only she had been honest with me... Some things I didn't mention in this thread - but let's just say she lied. I never once lied to her the whole ten years. I was so faithful to her. This experience makes me question everything. Love, monogamy, trust, loyalty. It almost doesn't seem worth the pain. It sounds like at this point you also need to forgive the world... Forgiveness doesn't mean that you accept what she did to you as RIGHT.. by the sounds of it what she did to you was horrible... You can say to yourself she did horrible horrible things to me, but you know what she's not worth it, I am no longer holding on to all her luggage I forgive her... Remember you don't know everything about her, what she has been through, what has affected her, why she is here, what mental problems she has etc etc... Maybe she's a sh**ty person, but give yourself permission to let her and everything she did to you go and move on...that is forgiveness Forgiveness does not make what she did right Forgiveness is letting go and freeing yourself of her demons It also doesn't always happen overnight
Author replicator Posted July 11, 2008 Author Posted July 11, 2008 It sounds like at this point you also need to forgive the world... Forgiveness doesn't mean that you accept what she did to you as RIGHT.. by the sounds of it what she did to you was horrible... You can say to yourself she did horrible horrible things to me, but you know what she's not worth it, I am no longer holding on to all her luggage I forgive her... Remember you don't know everything about her, what she has been through, what has affected her, why she is here, what mental problems she has etc etc... Maybe she's a sh**ty person, but give yourself permission to let her and everything she did to you go and move on...that is forgiveness Forgiveness does not make what she did right Forgiveness is letting go and freeing yourself of her demons It also doesn't always happen overnight I know you're right Confused, and in time, once my emotions are under control I'll reevaluate things. I don't want to carry this bitterness with me. On the radio on the way home, I heard the song 'heart of the matter' by Don Henley.. Good song about forgiveness - fitting for the moment. " But I knew that it would come An old true friend of ours was talkin' on the phone She said you found someone And I thought of all the bad luck, And all the struggles we went through How I lost me and you lost you What are these voices outside love's open door Make us throw off our contentment And beg for something more? I've been learning to live without you now But I miss you sometimes The more I know, the less I understand All the things I thought I knew, I'm learning them again I've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the Matter But my will gets weak And my thoughts seem to scatter But I think it's about forgiveness Forgiveness Even if, even if you don't love me anymore" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLgUuHl2xJo&feature=related
kizik Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 What a serendipitous moment for you in hearing that song, (shout out to serendip!), simply b/c of the subject matter and emotional content. I am SO glad you had that angry moment today at work. Recognizing when we have been wronged is essential to our self-esteem. We look back on the facts, and we go, "Wait a minute! That was f*cked up how she talked to me that day! That was awful how she belittled, insulted and demeaned my value as a person." It's really a simple realization about how the person who was supposed to be our best friend, consistently treated us as if they were our worst enemy. I said this to her. "Why are you treating me like I'm your enemy?" I knew something was wrong, deeply wrong with the R. I didn't have the self-respect to end it, though. Forgiveness may be necessary for "the world", or yourself, or her... I don't know, and I don't give a sh*t. I don't feel forgiveness for anyone or anything right now. It's not an emotion for me. It does not enter into the equation. I'm trying to be happy. That's it. Happy without her. An unimaginable concept as recently as 2 months ago. But I'm fine. I'm fine without her. I've been through denial and sadness, then anger. I'm confidently approaching indifference. Rock on.
Author replicator Posted July 11, 2008 Author Posted July 11, 2008 What a serendipitous moment for you in hearing that song, (shout out to serendip!), simply b/c of the subject matter and emotional content. I am SO glad you had that angry moment today at work. Recognizing when we have been wronged is essential to our self-esteem. We look back on the facts, and we go, "Wait a minute! That was f*cked up how she talked to me that day! That was awful how she belittled, insulted and demeaned my value as a person." It's really a simple realization about how the person who was supposed to be our best friend, consistently treated us as if they were our worst enemy. I said this to her. "Why are you treating me like I'm your enemy?" I knew something was wrong, deeply wrong with the R. I didn't have the self-respect to end it, though. Forgiveness may be necessary for "the world", or yourself, or her... I don't know, and I don't give a sh*t. I don't feel forgiveness for anyone or anything right now. It's not an emotion for me. It does not enter into the equation. I'm trying to be happy. That's it. Happy without her. An unimaginable concept as recently as 2 months ago. But I'm fine. I'm fine without her. I've been through denial and sadness, then anger. I'm confidently approaching indifference. Rock on. I'm glad that you're staying the course Kizik - I hope that when you're over it, you'll still come by to LS. By the looks of it, you'll be through to the other side not too long from now I've been going from denial, sadness, anger, all within the same day, almost every day. Anger was never an emotion that I was able to tap into. You know how much I struggled to feel that way towards her. I'll never consider what she did to me as being ok. I'll never condone it. But I know that in the end, the anger I hold to her is a negative energy that I eventually need to rid myself of. For now, I'll use this anger. I'll use it as a source of strength, but once it has served its purpose, I will do everything I can to forgive her and let it go..
kizik Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 I know that in the end, the anger I hold to her is a negative energy that I eventually need to rid myself of. For now, I'll use this anger. I'll use it as a source of strength, but once it has served its purpose, I will do everything I can to forgive her and let it go.. It's a fine line between using your anger at your ex's actions to propel your progress towards self-worth, based upon realizations about how you should have been treated - or conversely, allowing said anger to consume you, thus becoming stagnant and bitter. You and I are optimistic and forward-thinking enough to not allow the latter to happen.
confused and broken Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 I know you're right Confused, and in time, once my emotions are under control I'll reevaluate things. I don't want to carry this bitterness with me. On the radio on the way home, I heard the song 'heart of the matter' by Don Henley.. Good song about forgiveness - fitting for the moment. " But I knew that it would come An old true friend of ours was talkin' on the phone She said you found someone And I thought of all the bad luck, And all the struggles we went through How I lost me and you lost you What are these voices outside love's open door Make us throw off our contentment And beg for something more? I've been learning to live without you now But I miss you sometimes The more I know, the less I understand All the things I thought I knew, I'm learning them again I've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the Matter But my will gets weak And my thoughts seem to scatter But I think it's about forgiveness Forgiveness Even if, even if you don't love me anymore" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLgUuHl2xJo&feature=related That's awesome... I think forgiveness is coming your way... one day at a time...........
Trialbyfire Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 Sometimes forgiveness happens in increments, other times it's all at once. Don't expect more from yourself, on a preset schedule for something like this. In doing so and failing to meet your agenda, you slow down your own forgiveness.
orangehose Posted July 12, 2008 Posted July 12, 2008 At work today, I felt so enraged.. Like I've never felt angrier in my life, and a megaton was exploding bomb inside my chest. I had to keep reminding myself to breathe deeply, but my heart so ached, it was nuts. The pain in my chest has been there all day. The pain is in a physical form. At long last! Yay!! Yes, I had some days like this too (sometimes the anger just crept on me totally out of the blue, and I could barely concentrate on what I was doing). While it really sucked to be feeling the anger in the moment, days later it was like I had reached a whole new level in the 'getting over it' process. You'll see. It can be pretty cathartic. And yes, there is a physical pain component. They don't call it heartache for nothing.
Lucky555 Posted July 12, 2008 Posted July 12, 2008 I forgive, try to forget, make sure not to repeat the same thing again with that person, and move on. I forgive but also learn from it.
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