pelicanpreacher Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 cjanee, owoman and pelican PLEASE speak in English. Bio Fio Syo?? LOL. I have no idea what you are talking about. Especially cjanee since she didn't quote anyone or address a poster by name as to whom her post pertains. Just for me. I am lost. Are you kidding...I'm all "wall eyed" peeping from behind you! LOL! The biggest word I could come up with was psychoanalysis! Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 To the OP, Perhaps you should distance yourself from the situation and let the two of them deal with this big mess. The wife is obviously under extreme emotional distress and needs all the help she can get from members of her family and professionals who are equipped to handle such situations. I would lay low for a while since one never knows when a suicide threat is real or not. surely you do not want to be a part of this. Another thing to consider is your own personal safety since the wife threatened to come after you. I would also take this threat seriously. If she is as unstable as she sounds, this could very well be true. Lastly, consider the son who may be an adult and capable of rationalizing things but she is his mother and I guarantee you that if she does go through with it, he will not be so detached as to be able to assign responsibility to his mother. It is a very sticky situation and one fraught with disastrous possibilities. Are you sure that keeping this man under these circumstances will make you happy? Can we really base our happiness on another person´s unhappiness? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Are you kidding...I'm all "wall eyed" peeping from behind you! LOL! The biggest word I could come up with was psychoanalysis! LOL! I am just SHOCKED, I tell you, at the number of (so-called) counsellors that have gotten involved in affairs! LOL! Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Lastly, consider the son who may be an adult and capable of rationalizing things but she is his mother and I guarantee you that if she does go through with it, he will not be so detached as to be able to assign responsibility to his mother. Are you suggesting that should the BW go through with a suicide that the adult son should blame her for being emotionally distraught? Suicide is not an easy decision, I would gather. No more so than electing to terminate a pregnancy. How does one blame the person that committed suicide for their act? Everyone that I know that lost a loved one to suicide usually blames themselves for not stopping them or paying enough attention to keep them from doing it. Not suggesting that that's the correct way to handle it, just the way that I've usually seen. I mean, unless one WANTS the person dead, I can't see blaming them for taking their life. I CAN see blaming their life for making them want to make such a drastic and permanent decision for such a temporary (even if traumatic) situation. Link to post Share on other sites
pelicanpreacher Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 To the OP, Perhaps you should distance yourself from the situation and let the two of them deal with this big mess. The wife is obviously under extreme emotional distress and needs all the help she can get from members of her family and professionals who are equipped to handle such situations. I would lay low for a while since one never knows when a suicide threat is real or not. surely you do not want to be a part of this. Another thing to consider is your own personal safety since the wife threatened to come after you. I would also take this threat seriously. If she is as unstable as she sounds, this could very well be true. Lastly, consider the son who may be an adult and capable of rationalizing things but she is his mother and I guarantee you that if she does go through with it, he will not be so detached as to be able to assign responsibility to his mother. It is a very sticky situation and one fraught with disastrous possibilities. Are you sure that keeping this man under these circumstances will make you happy? Can we really base our happiness on another person´s unhappiness? Are you suggesting that should the BW go through with a suicide that the adult son should blame her for being emotionally distraught? Suicide is not an easy decision, I would gather. No more so than electing to terminate a pregnancy. How does one blame the person that committed suicide for their act? Everyone that I know that lost a loved one to suicide usually blames themselves for not stopping them or paying enough attention to keep them from doing it. Not suggesting that that's the correct way to handle it, just the way that I've usually seen. I mean, unless one WANTS the person dead, I can't see blaming them for taking their life. I CAN see blaming their life for making them want to make such a drastic and permanent decision for such a temporary (even if traumatic) situation. I think what Marlena was saying (and I may be wrong) was that the son, even though an adult and capable of rational thought, might not see his mother's suicide as a consequence strictly encompassed within her own responsibility, but instead, may blame himself or others involved for the reasons behind her death. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I think what Marlena was saying (and I may be wrong) was that the son, even though an adult and capable of rational thought, might not see his mother's suicide as a consequence strictly encompassed within her own responsibility, but instead, may blame himself or others involved for the reasons behind her death. But why would it be "strictly" her responsibility? No one commits suicide in a vacuum. No one wakes up in a perfectly normal non-trauma filled life and decides to kill themselves. Sure, no one put a gun in her hand, but they certainly placed it on the nightstand, kwim? I do understand that you are saying he shouldn't blame himself. But people will do that anyway. He should blame those that led his mother down this path if anyone is to blame. I would never commit suicide. I am MUCH too vain. This woman may just be too beaten down to consider the alternatives. Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I obviously did not say it as well as you Pelicanpreacher. If you are looking at the client in terms of Bio Psycho Social perspective one needs to determine the entire situation or a holistic view which includes the environmental circumstances. Are these circumstances aggravating or preventing outpatient treatment? If so then regardless of Bio (physical condition such as clinical depression), environmental factors like living situation,relationship dynamics must be factored into the case or the patients condition can deteriorate. Do the parties have a responsibility in doing what is best for the client? That is up to the parties involved. As a counselor it would be my duty to advise what was best for the client even if you as the party involved didn't like what you hear. translation - we all have an obligation to give the allegedly suicidal exactly what they want so they won't need to threaten it ? Yes, that would work well - for ONE person in the scenario. Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Are you suggesting that should the BW go through with a suicide that the adult son should blame her for being emotionally distraught? Suicide is not an easy decision, I would gather. No more so than electing to terminate a pregnancy. How does one blame the person that committed suicide for their act? Everyone that I know that lost a loved one to suicide usually blames themselves for not stopping them or paying enough attention to keep them from doing it. Not suggesting that that's the correct way to handle it, just the way that I've usually seen. I mean, unless one WANTS the person dead, I can't see blaming them for taking their life. I CAN see blaming their life for making them want to make such a drastic and permanent decision for such a temporary (even if traumatic) situation. Saying that the RESPONSIBILITY for an action rests with that person is not the same as laying BLAME for that action. The people involved with the person DO usually blame themselves, but the responsibility for the action lies with the person who took that action. If on the other hand, someone is trying to manipulate with threats then giving in to them is exactly their goal. Link to post Share on other sites
Dark-N-Romantic Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 If she kills herself, he won't have to fight for his kids if she takes her own life. Maybe there is a plus side for letting her be stupid (that is if she is using this as a tool to get at her husband). DNR Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 If she kills herself, he won't have to fight for his kids if she takes her own life. Maybe there is a plus side for letting her be stupid (that is if she is using this as a tool to get at her husband). DNR Their only child is 23, I don't think custody is an issue here. Link to post Share on other sites
Dark-N-Romantic Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Their only child is 23, I don't think custody is an issue here. Even better! DNR Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I think that there is a difference between.. attempting suicide with just enough pills to scare everyone around.. without causing too much harm to yourself... or to take enough to actually kill yourself.. I think, in this case, she is manipulative.. and use the first tactic just to keep him around.. sad and pathetic.. Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I think that there is a difference between.. attempting suicide with just enough pills to scare everyone around.. without causing too much harm to yourself... or to take enough to actually kill yourself.. I think, in this case, she is manipulative.. and use the first tactic just to keep him around.. sad and pathetic.. I agree Lizzie Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 cjanee, owoman and pelican PLEASE speak in English. Bio Fio Syo?? LOL. I have no idea what you are talking about. Especially cjanee since she didn't quote anyone or address a poster by name as to whom her post pertains. Just for me. I am lost. mumbo jumbo psycho babble Link to post Share on other sites
cjanee Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Maybe there is a plus side for letting her be stupid (that is if she is using this as a tool to get at her husband). Hey DNR I think that is exactly the point that people are forgetting. We don't know IF she is USING this as a tool to get her husband because no one on here is a psychiatrist. Finally a person who isn't assuming. Good grief it's amazing to me how some are assuming the worst of this woman! The only evidence we have is what has been said by one person who happens to be involved with the suicidal persons husband, (nothing like a bias opinion there). This is a complex situation. Bottom line. She's in the hospital and not only in the hospital but admitted. As someone else already said on here that is cause enough to take the matter seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
Dark-N-Romantic Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 We had some guy who wanted to get out of the Marine Corps so bad, he claimed he was suicidal and said that over one weekend he tried to kill himself by overdosing on aspirin. DNR If one is going to going to take themselves out, do it with some flare. Jump off of a building dressed in a clown suit. Link to post Share on other sites
cjanee Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 [ mumbo jumbo psycho babble Hey lookingforward... LMAO!!! You really love bashing me don't you.? this is the third post now. K got my attention. Link to post Share on other sites
cjanee Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 We had some guy who wanted to get out of the Marine Corps so bad, he claimed he was suicidal and said that over one weekend he tried to kill himself by overdosing on aspirin. DNR If one is going to going to take themselves out, do it with some flare. Jump off of a building dressed in a clown suit. lol!!! yep met plenty of those people too. those who cry wolf.... Link to post Share on other sites
pelicanpreacher Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I think that there is a difference between.. attempting suicide with just enough pills to scare everyone around.. without causing too much harm to yourself... or to take enough to actually kill yourself.. I think, in this case, she is manipulative.. and use the first tactic just to keep him around.. sad and pathetic.. Although I can agree with the precept that someone might use suicide to manipulate others but, the question still begs as to how she would know how many pills is one pill too many? There are countless deaths attributed to "suicide through misadventure" by someone taking one too many pills or a dangerous "cocktail" of medication. Anna Nicole Smith springs to mind as the most recently famous case in point. Since this woman is not a doctor nor probably has any significant medical background to speak of I'd say that any time she attempts suicide she should be taken seriously! Link to post Share on other sites
Dark-N-Romantic Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 lol!!! yep met plenty of those people too. those who cry wolf.... Yeah, suicide is one of those things that I would need a strong set of special conditions in order for me to feel sympathy for the person. For example, this disturbing case about the those involved in that internet (even the parents for supporting her in braking the rule of age in order for her to have an account) abuse that caused an already ill 13 old girl to kill herself. But, there may be some things I might of thought of worth killing myself for, but none of them included killing myself over person, place, or thing. DNR Link to post Share on other sites
pelicanpreacher Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Yeah, suicide is one of those things that I would need a strong set of special conditions in order for me to feel sympathy for the person. For example, this disturbing case about the those involved in that internet (even the parents for supporting her in braking the rule of age in order for her to have an account) abuse that caused an already ill 13 old girl to kill herself. But, there may be some things I might of thought of worth killing myself for, but none of them included killing myself over person, place, or thing. DNR Well DNR, let's hope you never face your moment of "doubt and pain"! Link to post Share on other sites
cjanee Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 DNR.. Yes definite heated topic. Difficult not to push peoples buttons. For some its a moral dilemma - others passionate in their opinion around it. Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Although I can agree with the precept that someone might use suicide to manipulate others but, the question still begs as to how she would know how many pills is one pill too many? There are countless deaths attributed to "suicide through misadventure" by someone taking one too many pills or a dangerous "cocktail" of medication. Anna Nicole Smith springs to mind as the most recently famous case in point. Since this woman is not a doctor nor probably has any significant medical background to speak of I'd say that any time she attempts suicide she should be taken seriously! pelic, that's the point, they don't and sometimes those that are merely "attempting" actually DO, but that said, addressing the OP, given the history she is probably correct that it is purely an attempt to manipulate the estranged H, and should an attempt succeed I don't see where is fair to "blame" the OP. Link to post Share on other sites
Dark-N-Romantic Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Well DNR, let's hope you never face your moment of "doubt and pain"! I do a lot. I fight a lot of depression. I am all about facing my doubt and pain and overcoming it. No my thought of possible suicide would be like if I was terribly injured or if I suffered from a incurable disease. I don't want those around me to suffer longer than they have to. Oh. And am talking assisted suicide. And I would do it for the protection of another, like throwing myself in front the line of fire. DNR Link to post Share on other sites
pelicanpreacher Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I do a lot. I fight a lot of depression. I am all about facing my doubt and pain and overcoming it. No my thought of possible suicide would be like if I was terribly injured or if I suffered from a incurable disease. I don't want those around me to suffer longer than they have to. Oh. And am talking assisted suicide. And I would do it for the protection of another, like throwing myself in front the line of fire. DNR You DNR are a good man but, let's not be too hasty with the assisted suicide. I'm gonno look into cryogenics myself because I want to be sure I get the chance to dance on the graves of every enemy I've ever had! If cryo doesn't work I'll opt for reincarnation and come back as a pelican so that I can drop fish bombs of wisdom on them from on high! Link to post Share on other sites
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