Owl Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Well you can disagree all you want but since you are not an OW and have no idea what it feels like to be doted after like that by someone married and professing their love to you in words and actions you really can only form an opinion on imagination not on what you actually lived. We're back to the battle cry of the OW...you can't POSSIBLY understand since you've not been there. Bull doody. Everyone has a sense of empathy and projection. Since you've never been a BH, how could you possibly know what I can or cannot understand???? See the flaw in that logic? If thats the case, then counseling and therapy have NO BASIS at all, and no value at all. Link to post Share on other sites
luvmy2ns Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 No it is not just MY case, many many couples are not giving each other and the WS gives to the OP. I diasagree I was a one off because mine wasn't living at home. There are SO many couples under the same roof living as strangers. Of course there are. But to say OW's always get the best of their MM is way off base, IMO. Just read through these threads. It's plain to see how many OW were simply a side piece, sadly enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Well you can disagree all you want but since you are not an OW and have no idea what it feels like to be doted after like that by someone married and professing their love to you in words and actions you really can only form an opinion on imagination not on what you actually lived. Listen what is the BEST of a person? What is your idea of the best of a person. here is my idea of the best of a person 1. uncoditional displays of love through affection and attention 2. devotion in mind and soul and actions 2. attention/persistence 4. understanding 5. sexual attention 6. physical attention 7. attention to be made to feel special in every way 8. compliments 9. gifts for no reason 10. mad love making sessions 11. simply looking into your eyes and making your soul dance 12. dedication in the good times and bad 13. sharing of goals and dreams long conversations 14. communication 15. admiration look the list can go on and on, and if you don't think those are the BEST things a person can give you then you have some strange needs. I got ALL those things from this man, and his was wasn't even getting ONE of those during the time we were together. I don't know what is left to give to a spouse after you give all that to a thrid party? So please explain how an OP does NOT get the best? AND in addition to that don't say the best of a person is the ups and downs and the shared problems because absolutely NO ONE goes into a relationship looking for that everyone goes into a relationship for the bells and whistles that they are presented with, then real life kicks in and your love bond carries you through the crap. But we aim to find someone who will make us FEEL GOOD, that is the bottom line. The best of a person is how good they make us feel. Link to post Share on other sites
luvmy2ns Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 AND in addition to that don't say the best of a person is the ups and downs and the shared problems because absolutely NO ONE goes into a relationship looking for that everyone goes into a relationship for the bells and whistles that they are presented with, then real life kicks in and your love bond carries you through the crap. But we aim to find someone who will make us FEEL GOOD, that is the bottom line. The best of a person is how good they make us feel. But that's not a R then. For better or worse, not just when it "feels good." That's just smoke and mirrors. If that's what you classify as "the best," all your R's must be very short lived. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 We're back to the battle cry of the OW...you can't POSSIBLY understand since you've not been there. Bull doody. Everyone has a sense of empathy and projection. Since you've never been a BH, how could you possibly know what I can or cannot understand???? See the flaw in that logic? If thats the case, then counseling and therapy have NO BASIS at all, and no value at all. Because I am not trying to shut down your experience of being a BS, I am not telling you that what you are living as a BS is not as it is. I was cheated on but also dumped the person so I have no experience telling someone how to cope with the aftermath of forgiveness to betrayal, and I won't pretend to know about that. You on the other hand are trying to tell me what I experienced as an OW in terms of what I got out of my rel with this man was not true or best or whatever, when you have no clue what an OP gets from their partner, that is the flaw in YOUR logic OWL. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 But that's not a R then. For better or worse, not just when it "feels good." That's just smoke and mirrors. If that's what you classify as "the best," all your R's must be very short lived. well of course not who starts off IN a relationship? That is why you date, but what keeps you coming back for more? Do they make you feel good or not? That's what does. If the bad outweighs the good you bail you would not get into a deeper relationship with a person. However, once the love has been established and it grows you are more accepting of the bad because your love carries you through it. This is why people stay in As that hurt so much for such a long time, your love carries you through the obvious painful obstacles. Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Sorry I know it's pedantic but I just can't let this pass! Woody Allen never adopted Soon-Yi Previn. She was the adopted daughter of Mia Farrow with her ex-husband, Andre Previn. Mia Farrow and Woody Allen never lived together - they maintained strictly separate flats throughout. Soon-Yi would have known Woody as her mother's lover, and nothing else. Her father was Andre Previn. Technicially - whatever other "ewwww" factors are involved (who finds a nebbish sexy, fgs? ) - there was nothing incestuous about the relationship. Thanks - I didn't know that!! Though in all honesty - I wouldn't have thought incest anyway, as there would have been no blood relationship - does that make me weird? The ewwww was more about what I thought of as the betrayal of Mia, and that's still there in my opinion. (I also think ewwww because of the age difference too, but that's me, not them) Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I am telling you, you get the absolute BEST of a man (in a romantic sense) in love with you in this type of scenario. The guy would always put me first. So it is not stupid at all, I know excatly what OW is talking about, obviously you don't have experience with this so you can't relate, but you are entitled to your opinion. It seems to me that there is probably just as wide a variety of situations in affairs as in anything else. But - that said - I see what you mean of the OW getting the best part of the man while the affair is going on. IF he isn't lying to the OW as well as the wife. Whether that is the best of the man overall is probably a different discussion . Link to post Share on other sites
jj2007 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 ummm as I"m not a mod I can't "enforce" anything LOL That's the point. That's why I asked you why you would "try". I wasn't sure if you had become a mod or if you were just volunteering your services. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Because I am not trying to shut down your experience of being a BS, I am not telling you that what you are living as a BS is not as it is. I was cheated on but also dumped the person so I have no experience telling someone how to cope with the aftermath of forgiveness to betrayal, and I won't pretend to know about that. You on the other hand are trying to tell me what I experienced as an OW in terms of what I got out of my rel with this man was not true or best or whatever, when you have no clue what an OP gets from their partner, that is the flaw in YOUR logic OWL. You're going to love this... We're arguing over PERCEPTION. You feel that what you saw was the best of OM. Its your PERCEPTION of the situation. The BS's clearly have a different PERCEPTION. I've not lived on your side, so you're right..I can't honestly say that your PERCEPTION is true or not. Just as you can't tell me whether my PERCEPTION is right or not. You firmly believe that you saw the "BEST" of OM...that he was wholeheartedly yours. MY view on all that I've seen indicates that most commonly he's a SHARED commodity during the affair...at most. We're back to agreeing to disagree I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I knew my oil wrestling idea would be a hit!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 You're going to love this... We're arguing over PERCEPTION. You feel that what you saw was the best of OM. Its your PERCEPTION of the situation. The BS's clearly have a different PERCEPTION. I've not lived on your side, so you're right..I can't honestly say that your PERCEPTION is true or not. Just as you can't tell me whether my PERCEPTION is right or not. You firmly believe that you saw the "BEST" of OM...that he was wholeheartedly yours. MY view on all that I've seen indicates that most commonly he's a SHARED commodity during the affair...at most. We're back to agreeing to disagree I think. Listen OWL if what I lived is total perception then you have even LESS of a right to comment because you haven't even lived it, so you don't even have the right to perceive you are just talking for the sake of talking. Sorry but this is where the argument stops, I am not going to discuss ABSTRACT concepts, nor do I want to get into quantum physics over what is real and what is perception. Just take note that you have this uncanny tendency to devalue OP's experiences and I think you do this because you are in denial of what goes on in As and that's fine you continue on your denial maybe this helps you cope in your recovery and it makes it less painful to look at your W if you can dismiss what really happened, and that to me is a huge factor I take into account when I try to understand your logic During the 2 yrs that I have known this man I consistently got this: 1. uncoditional displays of love through affection and attention 2. devotion in mind and soul and actions 2. attention/persistence 4. understanding 5. sexual attention 6. physical attention 7. attention to be made to feel special in every way 8. compliments 9. gifts for no reason 10. mad love making sessions 11. simply looking into your eyes and making your soul dance 12. dedication in the good times and bad 13. sharing of goals and dreams long conversations 14. communication 15. admiration Despite the obvious which was that I could not have him 100% due to the fact that he was still married to someone else, I got all the above things from him. If you want to argue with me that I did not get the best from him then, your definition of BEST is not the same as most people's or you might have a masochistic tendencies and are attracted to people who offer you the opposite of all the aformentioned. In which case that would make us on two completey different wave lenghts. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Well, I'd respond that you've got a massive track record of attempting to devalue the BS's position in virtually every thread you've participated on based on YOUR experiences as OW...so I would guess that makes us good counterweights for each other. And I'm sorry TC...but looking back over our threads, I've got to say that my view is likely far more 'balanced' than yours has been. Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
luvmy2ns Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I knew my oil wrestling idea would be a hit!!! ...and I vote we get back to discussing that instead. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 You firmly believe that you saw the "BEST" of OM...that he was wholeheartedly yours. MY view on all that I've seen indicates that most commonly he's a SHARED commodity during the affair...at most. And I never said he was whole heartedly "mine" what I said was that he shared all the best things a person gives you when they are wholeheartedly yours. Let's face it all the qualities I described above are the kinds of things people give out of feeling completly devotion towards someone so what difference does it make? He gave me the dedication and respect that I would strive for and always put me first. I got the BEST of him, he could not marry be he was married to someone else. Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 If you want to argue with me that I did not get the best from him then, your definition of BEST is not the same as most people's or you might have a masochistic tendencies and are attracted to people who offer you the opposite of all the aformentioned. In which case that would make us on two completey different wave lenghts. I do think that different people have different definition of BEST, heck everyone has different definitions on a lot of things. I'm happy that you got all that from him even though it didn't last. You still have me Link to post Share on other sites
luvmy2ns Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 And I'm sorry TC...but looking back over our threads, I've got to say that my view is likely far more 'balanced' than yours has been. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with this. As for having a better handle on the situation and thus having an argument with more weight, TC, your A situation wasn't really an A. He was separated from his W. Most A's are held in secret, and most OW's do NOT get as much of their MM as they would like. It's all over this forum. The proof is plain to see. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Well, I'd respond that you've got a massive track record of attempting to devalue the BS's position in virtually every thread you've participated on based on YOUR experiences as OW...so I would guess that makes us good counterweights for each other. And I'm sorry TC...but looking back over our threads, I've got to say that my view is likely far more 'balanced' than yours has been. Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree. OWL your view is based on assumption, mine is based on my reality. Keep kidding yourself you have a "balanced" view and I will keep believing I KNOW what I lived. I really don't need your understanding to validate my experience my experince is valid, period. But you are deffinitely more than welcome to speculate as you often do...opinions everyone has. Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 ...and I vote we get back to discussing that instead. I know I can count on you on that! Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I do think that different people have different definition of BEST, heck everyone has different definitions on a lot of things. I'm happy that you got all that from him even though it didn't last. You still have me It didn't last because I was already moving on to you. Don't be sorry, it didn't last because I am the one who is not so sure I want him in my life anymore romatically speaking, he is still in the picture and would want nothing more than for me to give him another chance at us. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I'm still sitting here waiting for the BW vs OW oil wrestling grudge match!!!! C'mon ladies!!!! Not on your life:lmao::lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 It didn't last because I was already moving on to you. Don't be sorry, it didn't last because I am the one who is not so sure I want him in my life anymore romatically speaking, he is still in the picture and would want nothing more than for me to give him another chance at us. I was waiting for you to say that! Oh yeah! Now I remember. You told me about him. Looks like he's sticking around hey? Oh well, you're living your life and happier, I reckon so let him be. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 OWL your view is based on assumption, mine is based on my reality. Keep kidding yourself you have a "balanced" view and I will keep believing I KNOW what I lived. Fair enough...keep this argument in mind when you attempt to have any concept of what happens in a marriage AFTER the affair ends. You've not been there, so therefore are clueless...and your opinion therefore would carry a corresponding amount of value. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Fair enough...keep this argument in mind when you attempt to have any concept of what happens in a marriage AFTER the affair ends. You've not been there, so therefore are clueless...and your opinion therefore would carry a corresponding amount of value. Exactly, which is why you will never see me advising some BS on what they should and should not feel when they are in recovery, it is NOT my place and despite having read a TON of material on the process a BS goes through I have 0 experience in that nor do I pretend to. I don't need to hear myself speak that badly that I would go into territory that I don't feel confident advising about, there are plenty people with experience who can do a way better job. So I stick to what I know best. Link to post Share on other sites
noforgiveness Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Exactly, which is why you will never see me advising some BS on what they should and should not feel when they are in recovery, it is NOT my place and despite having read a TON of material on the process a BS goes through I have 0 experience in that nor do I pretend to. I don't need to hear myself speak that badly that I would go into territory that I don't feel confident advising about, there are plenty people with experience who can do a way better job. So I stick to what I know best. :laugh:didn't you just post this yesterday? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1741186&postcount=17 Link to post Share on other sites
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