How do I bring this up?

[marlena]

GC,

 

You seem to be going into this with heaps of doubt and skepticism which if carried to an extreme will ruin any possibility of a positive outcome. You either give him the benefit of the doubt while exercising emotional caution or you don´t give him the benefit of the doubt in which case there is no point in pursuing this relationship. Sometimes, overananalysing situations and people can be detrimental. Since you have already decided to make the move and give this man a chance, then, do just that. Go into it with open eyes but at the same time try to cultivate a positive attitude. By feeding your doubts, you are only poisoning yourself and the relationship. If he outrageously flirts in front of you when you are there, tell him that you find it disrespectful and then decide whether this is one flaw you can live with or not. For the time being, I would let it go and wait to see how he behaves once you are with him. Now that you are aware, it will be easy to read the signs and act accordingly when the time comes.

[Crestfallen_KH]

GC, I've been following your threads about this relationship. You've posted a few times now about your doubts, the "yellow flags" that you've seen (regarding the health insurance statement, for example) and your concerns about what you're giving up. Last I knew, you were reconsidering even moving out to CO.

 

Now you're back with another concern. And it's one that would concern me too.

 

I would really, really reconsider this move. You've had several worries. The older I've gotten, the more I've started to value gut instinct. It's there to protect you - it's not part of the "manufactured worry" we otherwise create.

 

It sounds like you're very committed to moving out there, despite the yellow flags. I just sense a lot of heartache coming down the pike, I really do.

[Zapbasket]

Thank you so much, Melody, Crestfallen, and Marlena. You all make good pointsSo what do I do? No matter what, my feelings are pretty hurt that we're already into the "Don't tell GreenCove" stage. I feel like a third, and much less important, wheel--like in this friend's eyes I'm just another in a long line of women, none of whom ever mattered much. Again, if the friend just saw his interaction with this woman as purely innocuous, why the "Don't tell"? If I don't say anything I'm stuck with my hurt feelings and the next time something comes up it will be even HARDER to speak up. Is there any way I can bring the situation up to him without a big hullabaloo?

[marlena]

Is there any way I can bring the situation up to him without a big hullabaloo?

 

Honey, even if you do it won´t change who he is. What you have to determine is whether or not this man can provide you with a stable and fulfilling relationship. I assume that this is what you are looking for in a partner. Yes?

 

If you are determined to relocate for him, exercise patience and wait until you get to know him better.

[SunnySideUp]

What I guess I don't get is, if the whole interchange with this woman was so innocuous, then why did his friends say not to tell me?

 

because they knew you would be upset about it and post questions about it on a relationship forum?

 

seriously though, they probably said that because guys have this "thing" that they know they can talk to each other about certain stuff that they can't talk to their women about, because it usually ends in some sort of argument.

[SunnySideUp]

He said, "I've been waiting 49 years and I don't want to wait anymore and the summer is halfway gone and I don't have anyone to spend it with and I'm not dating anyone."

 

Did he explain the "not dating anyone" comment? That seems rather strange to me.

[Trialbyfire]

GC, try not to focus on what third parties are saying and focus on his attitude towards relationships and women in general.

 

I think you do need to discuss this with him but plse, be clear as to what you need from him. Sweeping things under the carpet when they bother you so much just snowballs and ultimately, he'll be going "WHA?" by the time it builds to mammoth proportions.

[Zapbasket]

because they knew you would be upset about it and post questions about it on a relationship forum?

 

That made me laugh out loud!

[Trialbyfire]

For clarification, third parties as in his friends, not other posters!!

[Zapbasket]

Did he explain the "not dating anyone" comment? That seems rather strange to me.

 

No, he didn't explain because I decided to just let it go. I decided to be patient and not take issue with things probably just said in a temporary fit of overeagerness. Or so is how I chose to read it...until yet ANOTHER flag unfurled itself this past weekend. That's why I feel like I should say something this time.

[Zapbasket]

GC, try not to focus on what third parties are saying and focus on his attitude towards relationships and women in general.

 

I think you do need to discuss this with him but plse, be clear as to what you need from him. Sweeping things under the carpet when they bother you so much just snowballs and ultimately, he'll be going "WHA?" by the time it builds to mammoth proportions.

 

That's the thing: it's already building. Not to mammoth proportions, but I do feel like enough has unfolded to show me that while in many ways he's a wonderful man, he has this blind spot of serious immaturity where romantic relationships are concerned. He goes to psychotherapy twice a week so I feel like MAYBE if I let him know how much this past instance bothered me, he'd make an effort to examine why he did what he did. I feel like the one thing in my favor is that he really is sincere in wanting a committed long-term relationship, and in wanting such a relationship with ME...and so he may be willing to do the work required to get out of his own way in attaining this goal.

 

I feel like I'm close to summing him up as someone too damaged to really be a stable partner for me. I think it would really distress him to know the impact this stuff is having on me. Last week I sent a love poem I'd written to him, and he cried. You're onto something, TBF: I think he's showing me in spades why he's still single at 49. That's what I'm getting from the accumulation of instances such as last weekend.

[Trialbyfire]

GC, you know my normal attitude of move on! In this instance, maybe you should talk to him first and see how he handles this. If nothing else, it might help to illustrate to you, your mutual dynamics in handling a problem or issues in general.

[Crestfallen_KH]

You're onto something, TBF: I think he's showing me in spades why he's still single at 49. That's what I'm getting from the accumulation of instances such as last weekend.

 

Yes...yes, yes, yes, YES.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks TBF and Crestfallen! I am so glad I posted this. I'm going to talk to him tonight or tomorrow and I'm going to bring this up. Depending upon how ready I am to act on whatever results (or does not result) from our discussion, I may just be blanketly honest with him and say that overall I feel like I'm seeing in spades why he's single. I bet you anything that no one he's dated in the past has ever been honest with him...and while it may hurt, in the end sometimes honesty is the most loving gesture anyone can perform for another person. I do think he's just fantastic in so many ways; I have grown to care a lot for him. But I also refuse to spend any time in a relationship where the person can't give me what I want.

 

Hopefully it'll be tonight that I talk to him; otherwise, tomorrow. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks again.

[Trialbyfire]

Good luck GC! Hopefully your discussion will give you more information, so you can make an educated decision. While gut instinct is an awesome tool, it needs to be backed up by clear communication. No one can know what you're feeling unless you express it.

[lovely81]

Hi Greencove! I don't think I ever got to tell you how great it's been seeing you stop obsessing about the ex. It's been so much fun.

 

That said, my feelings about this are that the person who may get hurt in this relationship is him, not you. You have many many doubts about him. You are looking for red flags. I have a feeling when you get to Colorado you might find a lot more. I don't doubt the truth about your perceptions, but I do think your heart perhaps maybe isn't totally into this guy. I mean, you focus a lot on how he might not be ready for a longterm commitment when it seems like with the right person, you'd just be more excited about being with him day by day.

 

That doesn't mean that can't change though, I just thought I'd give you my take.

[Zapbasket]

Hi Greencove! I don't think I ever got to tell you how great it's been seeing you stop obsessing about the ex. It's been so much fun.

 

That said, my feelings about this are that the person who may get hurt in this relationship is him, not you. You have many many doubts about him. You are looking for red flags. I have a feeling when you get to Colorado you might find a lot more. I don't doubt the truth about your perceptions, but I do think your heart perhaps maybe isn't totally into this guy. I mean, you focus a lot on how he might not be ready for a longterm commitment when it seems like with the right person, you'd just be more excited about being with him day by day.

 

That doesn't mean that can't change though, I just thought I'd give you my take.

 

Hi Lovely, thanks for weighing in. Believe me, I WANT to be excited, and just excited, 100%. But then things like last weekend happen and their like mines in the wildflower field of happiness that I'm skipping across. Exchanges such as ours on Sunday make me feel so small and disappointed, and then yes, I question the relationship because at this point in my life I only want to put my time into a relationship that makes me feel, overall, really positive and excited. Otherwise, I simply have too much stuff I want to do to make compromises for someone who doesn't treat me with the kind of respect I'd like to receive.

[luvstarved]

GreenCove,

 

Just a few comments that might have been made before but I missed.

 

First, I do think that you should make the move. Things are in place and I do not think that you will get solid answers about how a LTR will be with him until you have the near proximity and some more time. Outside of the things you mentioned, you seem to care for him and admire much about him. He could be a great catch.

 

Look, you are insecure about whether he is really right for you. Maybe he is the same. You can't know in a LDR what living together is going to be like.

 

Some possibilities occurred, maybe one will feel right:

 

- how well do you know his friends? Are they freewheeling bachelors who date multiple women at once? Then the "don't tell one about the other" remark makes sense. Or, are they too unenlightened on interpersonal dynamics and actually think, as many cloddy men do, that there is only one actual type of woman in the world and she is insanely jealous. My bottom line opinion on that one is that it was a slanted way to do a jealousy test on you, even if subconsciously. Hard to say what answer he is looking for, reassurance he would get if you acted slightly jealous, or reassurance he would get if you didn't act jealous at all.

 

Most people want to be with someone who gets just a little jealous once in a while because it feels like"they still care". But others want nothing to do with the green-eyed monster. I would respond with a simple question without interpretation, then listen to the answer. "why do you think your friends would tell you not to tell me" Put the onus on him.

 

As for talking about past skirt-chasing, that could also be a jealousy test, but also some trepidation of having to give up that life and only be with ONE WOMAN FOREVER??? This scares a lot of guys, and many do work it out. Many others don't, but again don't think you can leap to conclusions here. It is a small red flag because he is sending the message that what is coming together for the two of you is wildly different from his past and he may be wondering if he will be able to "settle" for one woman. He does not have that answer yet and cannot get it if you bail on him now.

 

He sounds like a well-intentioned guy who is fearful about this situation and I understand why he would. Perhaps his friends are feeding him horror stories about the stereotypical wife who hates sex and nags constantly.

If so that is inexperience and immaturity talking.

 

He does sound inexperienced in LTRs and I think that is a red flag but it could also be a good thing. Maybe you ARE that special. Or, maybe the timing is right for him to grow up and he knows it.

 

I definitely think you should make an effort to be more patient and forgiving about these particular transgressions, but I also think you need to have a clear stance on what is normal\acceptable for you in a relationsihp.

 

Maybe you just need to get your thoughts together first about the relationship, then just mention it as a point of curiosity as best youcan.

Any information you get puts you closer to knowing if he is right for you.

 

I will warn you that if he is immature now, it will take longer than usual to get him to understand adult concerns. I went through that with my for a long time and is only now getting really better.

 

Cheers,

 

Keep watching for clues, and at some point have a general conversation about these things...he does sound honest so that is a plus.

 

Good luck

[Zapbasket]

I spoke with him tonight about how I felt. He clarified the whole situation for me and I'm completely satisfied that at worst what was going on in our interchange on Sunday was a bit of insecurity on his part. His friend was trying to take my part in that he told her he thought this young violinist may have been flirting with him and she was saying "Don't tell GreenCove" because she was trying to tell my boyfriend that women are sensitive about this stuff and my boyfriend was like, "No, GreenCove's not like that; she's not at all a jealous person."

 

I brought this up to him after he finished telling me how frustrating his day was because he's trying to get house renovations all done before I get there and the builder isn't cooperating.

 

So I'm glad I clarified things. I feel better. This was definitely a lesson in communicating to your partner rather than make assumptions. I do also feel, though, that my instincts are telling me something and I need to pay careful attention. The one thing going for me is that he does sincerely want this to work; I can tell. Time will be my friend in this situation, as I suspect that over the next 6 months, or even 2 or 3 months, the long-term potential of this relationship will be starkly clear and I'll have the gift of being able to go on not having to wonder, "What if..." the way I was left to wonder with my ex.

 

I guess I'm just trying to learn how to discern red flags and what to do with them once I recognize them. So here's what I learned from this most recent situation:

 

Lesson #1: Always communicate. Always open a dialogue to give your partner the opportunity to articulate his side before coming to conclusions.

 

Lesson #2: Respect your instincts. If something is causing a nagging discomfort in you, listen to that feeling. Don't just wave it away under the pretense that it's a sign your 'oversensitive.' Probe your instincts and pay attention to what's going on so that you can clarify what's nagging you.

 

Lesson #3: Be patient--with yourself, with your partner, with the relationship. Give everyone the benefit of the doubt; most of the time everyone involved is doing the best they can. Rarely is someone actively striving to harm you. Though sometimes as we're all grappling with our personal demons in an attempt to protect our own well being, we hurt those whom we love. Be patient with these missteps, too--though don't hesitate to speak up when your feelings are hurt.

[marlena]

Good summary, GC!! Best of luck!

 

Marlena

[Zapbasket]

Hi Luvstarved,

 

Thank you so much for this. Somehow I missed it when you posted it; I think maybe you posted just as I posted the post that followed yours. (Just had to see how many times I could get "post" into a sentence )

 

First, I do think that you should make the move. Things are in place and I do not think that you will get solid answers about how a LTR will be with him until you have the near proximity and some more time. Outside of the things you mentioned, you seem to care for him and admire much about him. He could be a great catch.

 

Thank you for the reassurance. I've really dug deep to discern whether this is the right move, and it feels right.

 

Look, you are insecure about whether he is really right for you. Maybe he is the same. You can't know in a LDR what living together is going to be like.

 

Yes, I forget that it's as much as unknown for him as it is for me. The thing is that he's felt absolutely CERTAIN about this since the get-go. I'm so afraid he'll lose his certainty at some point soon and I'll be there living with him, wondering what's going on....

 

My bottom line opinion on that one is that it was a slanted way to do a jealousy test on you, even if subconsciously. Hard to say what answer he is looking for, reassurance he would get if you acted slightly jealous, or reassurance he would get if you didn't act jealous at all.

 

I totally agree with you. I spent my 4th of july weekend with an old male friend in the Catskills, totalliy platonic but still it may have been threatening to my boyfriend.

 

...what is coming together for the two of you is wildly different from his past and he may be wondering if he will be able to "settle" for one woman. He does not have that answer yet and cannot get it if you bail on him now.

 

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I fear.

 

He sounds like a well-intentioned guy who is fearful about this situation and I understand why he would. Perhaps his friends are feeding him horror stories about the stereotypical wife who hates sex and nags constantly.

If so that is inexperience and immaturity talking.

 

He does sound inexperienced in LTRs and I think that is a red flag but it could also be a good thing. Maybe you ARE that special. Or, maybe the timing is right for him to grow up and he knows it.

 

I definitely think you should make an effort to be more patient and forgiving about these particular transgressions, but I also think you need to have a clear stance on what is normal\acceptable for you in a relationsihp.

 

Maybe you just need to get your thoughts together first about the relationship, then just mention it as a point of curiosity as best youcan.

Any information you get puts you closer to knowing if he is right for you.

 

I will warn you that if he is immature now, it will take longer than usual to get him to understand adult concerns. I went through that with my for a long time and is only now getting really better.

 

Cheers,

 

Keep watching for clues, and at some point have a general conversation about these things...he does sound honest so that is a plus.

 

Good luck

 

Yes, he is honest. I do feel good about that.

[Crestfallen_KH]

I'm glad you are satsified, GC. Good luck on the move and keep in touch.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

It sounds like you have some pretty big doubts. And I partially am in agreement with you, I would question a person who can tell me they love me and then talk about all the flirtation that be going on with them. There is a difference between being desirable and being desirous. You man sounds like he is enjoying being desired by women and want to us it as a means to control you by letting you know that there are more women out there willing to that can take your place.

 

Secondly, most wise people would not use something we hold dear as a means to hurt us. It seemed he took an especial liking to telling you that this woman he met at a concert, not only that, she plays the same musical instrument. And now he wants to let you know he is going to form a friendship with her? I can see how that would make you, and most people, uncomfortable.

 

I think he isn't ready for a committed relationship and may be pretty narcissistic and trifling. Maybe you should really think about uprooting yourself for this guy. You definitely need to let him know how you feel and this kind of activity is not going to be accepted. You are not being paranoid or pushy and have every right to be treated with a WHOLE lot more respect than what he has shown you. I would definitely look at his last relationships and see why they ended, maybe it was not the other women's fault. Another bunch of people you need to talk to are friends and relatives on this matter as well.

 

Now if you are still planning on moving, YOU BETTER NOT LOSE CONTACT WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY! Now I might be paranoid, but if this is how he is acting now, I don't think I would trust him, especially with me being so far away from those who love me.

 

I hope you find your answer and peace in this time of confusion. Never let anyone put you down or disrespect you, especially not someone that can be as temporary as a boyfriend.

 

 

DNR