kizik Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 ...if someone's going to treat you like sh*t just for being nice and easygoing and trying to do what they want, well, they're a sh*t person anyway. [expletives added by kizik] Brilliantly put. Thanks again orangehose for making sense. Sure, I should have stood up, but she shouldn't have put me in that position in the first place. Today I'm almost laughing b/c I dare her to go date again, ASAP, and see what kind of guys are out there. Oh, guys can be such pr*cks, and she's gonna realize it someday and it will prob. make me look pretty goddamn good. Whatever, that's selfish thinking on my part - I'm just saying that she was so foolish to be so bad to me, so incredibly shortsighted and stupid. She's such an idiot. Can't wait for her to start dating someone else! Ha!!!
orangehose Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Brilliantly put. Thanks again orangehose for making sense. Sure, I should have stood up, but she shouldn't have put me in that position in the first place. Aww, thanks. But yeah, how messed up is it, and how indicative of the pathology of our exes, that our big regret here is being TOO NICE?! Does Mother Theresa have to beat herself up over being too nice to her lepers, or whatever? No, because those lepers are generally normal and nice to her (and presumably appreciative). Of course, it's true that we should work on our assertiveness more. And not let bad behavior just slide. But, like GreenCove said, that wouldn't have saved the relationship, just ended it sooner. Oh, guys can be such pr*cks, and she's gonna realize it someday and it will prob. make me look pretty goddamn good. Yeah, statistically speaking, it is probably inevitable. There are just too many crap guys (and crap girls) out there. She'll probably run into one soon enough.
Nevermind Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 Yes, in a sense, it was my fault. I let him walk all over me, control me, suck the life out of me etc. I allowed him to do all those things, and because I didn't stop him when he first began to behave like this, it only got worse. I blinded myself to reality, and lied to my own face about being happy. I made this go on. Notice something? My fault lies in not putting an end to it, not leaving earlier. I didn't make him do any of the things he did, I didn't cause it, I didn't iniate his moral sell-out. That's his fault. His short-comings, his personality. I let myself go in this relationship, made myself depend on him, made myself forget that I actually am strong and free-spirited. This fault lies with me. I neglected myself. So, for the pain and suffering I was going through, I take a share of the blame. But for how the relationship ended...no. Nor how it was. Surely, mistakes were made...and I learn from them. But I refuse to take the blame for his behaviour. Sunshinegirl: grieving and working through things is important. Take every minute you need for this. Don't be rushed. BUT...don't forget: he decided to cheat, he (unconsciouly) decided to be emotionally unavailable etc. His decisions. He wasn't an imbecile, you need to accept that he made those decisions. They were poor, wrong and cold...but it's his life. Every minute you spend blaming yourself, is a minute you spend breaking your heart all over again. You give him power, a power he doesn't even ask for. Recognize the patterns that brought you there, but don't start a new one.
Trialbyfire Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 Once again sunshinegirl, why do you want this manchild, beyond the physical chemistry? Seems to me he hasn't got much to offer a woman who's looking for a stable, mature relationship, where both parties fuel the relationship with mutual respect and more importantly a deep, abiding love.
Author sunshinegirl Posted July 9, 2008 Author Posted July 9, 2008 Once again sunshinegirl, why do you want this manchild, beyond the physical chemistry? Seems to me he hasn't got much to offer a woman who's looking for a stable, mature relationship, where both parties fuel the relationship with mutual respect and more importantly a deep, abiding love. I can see why it's confusing to an outside observer -- friends and family as well as internet strangers. It has been pretty confusing to me, too. Given that I felt "off" during the relationship, given that many of our values and dreams don't line up, given the lack of communication/empathy/caring from him, and finally given his lying/cheating, why indeed am I wasting a single tear or thought on the manchild?? (LOL - thank you) I'm starting to get a clue. As I mentioned in the start of this thread, counseling is uncovering a lot of stuff. I'm also reading "Women Who Love Too Much" right now - a title that I never would have thought applied to me. The more distance I have from this relationship, the more I see that it replicated some of the worst dynamics in my relationships with my parents, making it (a) comfortable and what I'm used to and (b) something/someone to "fix". The chance to replay that old script I think is what made him so unbelievably seductive in the first place, and now so hard to leave behind emotionally. Add in the ego blow that he dumped me instead of the other way around, and it's kind of an emotional perfect storm. I'll post more later tonight. My thoughts are a bit jumbled right now.
Trialbyfire Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 You know the sound in cartoons when they're scratching their heads. That scritching sound? That would be me with a confused expression on my face, reading about this dude!
Author sunshinegirl Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 Well, I thought I would have some enlightened thoughts to add this evening, but I really don't. In fact, I'm missing him. Or, maybe more accurately, missing our evenings together, missing companionship. I have spent A LOT of time by myself since the breakup, and it's really hard not to feel sorry for myself when I know he's off getting his jollies. I'm trying to think of this time in different terms, though: maybe I'm alone for a few months while I sort through my feelings, work on myself, and get myself ready for a much healthier partner. Meanwhile, he jumps straight into the next thing without any reflection, processing, or change, setting himself up for the same kind of one-dimensional, shallow relationships time and time again. I keep forgetting to remind myself that a life with him--with the manchild-- would NOT have been happy. I keep forgetting that I am free to find someone healthy, someone who can provide me the good things he did (after all it's the good stuff that I miss) but - importantly - so so so so much more than he *ever* could. Back to the book I'm reading...
Trialbyfire Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 You know much of this is ego, don't you sunshinegirl?
Author sunshinegirl Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 Sure. Yes. I know my ego is really crushed. I'm the one more equipped for a mature, adult relationship (at least in theory), yet I get dumped by the emotional cripple who doesn't know his ass from his elbow and couldn't identify a feeling if it slapped him across the face.
Trialbyfire Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Hold onto those thoughts but not about getting dumped. Hold onto the emotional cripple thoughts. As for the ego, forgive yourself and drop that ego, where it belongs, on its arse. Yeah, he was an emotional cripple, one who couldn't return the depth of emotion you gave to him. So who's the real loser now, someone who is capable of caring thus capable of entering into a real solid relationship in the future or an emotional cripple?
Author sunshinegirl Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 He is... [she mumbles] How come when I have these moments of acknowledging reality the voice rises up in my brain "but maybe he's not emotionally crippled with HER"? Man I have a lot of internal demons to battle.
Trialbyfire Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Grrrr....I'm going to smack you soon but in a loving way! The only fact you know is that he's an emotional cripple. If need be, analyse according to facts. What's the likelihood that he's changed this quickly? What's the likelihood that he won the Powerball?
Nevermind Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Okay, here is the deal. He is not like that with her. They are just at the beginning. Was he already so cold, unavailable, disinterested etc at the very beginning of your relationship? He is to her what he was to you. Now, this is hard. It was the hardest I had to get over with. On these boards, and much more in RL, I kept blaming myself for letting the relationship turn abusive and not setting boundaries, asking if he was happy with somebody great and if he really is relived to be rid of me. And then it struck me: he probably is. Because I am a reminder of what he truly is and he cannot deal with that. He will be nice to her, and she will like it a lot. But he will turn sour very soon when they hit the LDR stage. Don't focus on the possibility of something good, but the reality of something bad. He is not a great guy. He never worked through his isses. He will continue to be unavailable, cold, etc. She will live the life you could have led, but also the life that never would have made you happy. This is all about low self-esteem now. He is just the tip of that. You are internalising the blame for something you are not responsible for. Cut him out. Forcefully try not to think of him for a while. Think about yourself. A person worthy of attention.
kizik Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 He is not like that with her. They are just at the beginning. Was he already so cold, unavailable, disinterested etc at the very beginning of your relationship? NM, glad to see you back after a short absence. You bring up an excellent point: it is tempting to say that our exes will immediately be terrible partners to their new boy/girlfriends, but the fact is that the honeymoon stage in my R lasted for at least a year. A YEAR. So, yes, my ex will inevitably sh*t on the guy she's probably with already, but it won't be for a good amount of time. Meanwhile (in my head), they're visiting all the places we went, f*cking, etc., and enjoying the very honeymoon I once had with her. It all ends, though, when a person hasn't taken the time to really reflect and work on his or her faults. Change must be made, but if it isn't, history always repeats itself.
Nevermind Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 I didn't mean to go completely, just stay off the coping section, and when I see a name on top of the page that I care about, I'll read anyway. Just no more fresh heart-ache.
Author sunshinegirl Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 The only fact you know is that he's an emotional cripple. If need be, analyse according to facts. What's the likelihood that he's changed this quickly? What's the likelihood that he won the Powerball? Don't focus on the possibility of something good, but the reality of something bad. He is not a great guy. He never worked through his isses. He will continue to be unavailable, cold, etc. She will live the life you could have led, but also the life that never would have made you happy. Good stuff. One danger of time slipping by is that I slide into nostalgia and into the good things that I miss, losing my grip on reality. This is where I am grateful for my online and real-life friends to help. One thing I'm learning from this Women Who Love book is that people like me bring a lot of denial into these kinds of relationships: denying and intellectualizing the things that are wrong; working hard to satisfy him and his needs without attending to my own; ignoring my own internal signals that things are off. I keep forgetting that during the relationship little alerts were going off internally, but I was ignoring them and making excuses for them. More than that, I was telling myself I could live with his lack of conversational and emotional engagement. I keep forgetting that I didn't like who I was becoming with him: more cynical myself, less engaged with the world, less interested in pursuing my own dreams and hopes. I keep forgetting that I wondered what the hell we would talk about if we bought a place together. I keep forgetting that I was jealous of other couples who were more warm and connected to each other. I keep forgetting that I never deeply admired him or wanted to become more like him in any way. I keep forgetting that I often felt alone, even when we were together. I keep forgetting that I felt responsibility for generating and keeping conversation going. Wow. That's quite a list. So I am getting smarter about why I picked Eric, and I am working hard to change my mental patterns and get clear about the qualities I want and need in a partner. Even given everything I've just said, it is still very very very hard for me to let go of the fantasy that he can/will change for the better someday. Do I have any evidence that this is so? Not really. He saw a counselor right when we broke up, so that's one glimmer of hope. But I doubt he has continued it since he didn't think he was a "fundamentally messed up person" and thought that just a few sessions would fix whatever was wrong. STILL. The optimist and idealist (and "fixer"?) in me still sees his potential and wishes, so much, for him to one day realize that potential. For all of my wishes for karma to richly visit upon him that which he visited upon me, I don't ultimately want him to live out his life as an unhappy man. Him apologizing to me and asking forgiveness would let me release him back to the universe with warmth and good wishes for him to find his happiness. I know not to expect anything like that, but it doesn't change me still wanting it. But. Back to working on me and dreaming up the kind of man that CAN be in a mature, committed relationship.
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