Star Gazer Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Yeah the thing is, I DON'T act like a brat time and time again. I don't think he REALLY thinks thats who I am or else he wouldn't be living with me or be even dating me. I am a very nice and caring person, not some spoiled little bratty girl who always needs to have everything. There are occasional comments, but it's not my personality by all means. Again, I say this with love, LB.... I have to respectfully disagree. Your comments here over time have reflected a bratty, selfish tendency, to the extent that sometimes I envision you literally stomping your feet and walking off in a tissy. I'm not sure how you can openly admit to being selfish and spoiled and very "me" and "I want" focused, but not bratty. Don't get me wrong, you've grown SUBSTANTIALLY since you've joined LS. Mountains, even! But there's still a little princess in there... You can be a very nice and caring person and still be a spoiled, selfish brat, LB. The two aren't entirely mutually exclusive. Trust me, I used to be one, until I was about...oh, 25. Also, you act confused that your BF can hate one thing about you, but still love you like crazy. Well, there are things you hate about him, but you love him to pieces too. It's not impossible. If anything, it's normal.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 14, 2008 Author Posted July 14, 2008 Again, I say this with love, LB.... I have to respectfully disagree. Your comments here over time have reflected a bratty, selfish tendency, to the extent that sometimes I envision you literally stomping your feet and walking off in a tissy. I'm not sure how you can openly admit to being selfish and spoiled and very "me" and "I want" focused, but not bratty. Don't get me wrong, you've grown SUBSTANTIALLY since you've joined LS. Mountains, even! But there's still a little princess in there... You can be a very nice and caring person and still be a spoiled, selfish brat, LB. The two aren't entirely mutually exclusive. Trust me, I used to be one, until I was about...oh, 25. Also, you act confused that your BF can hate one thing about you, but still love you like crazy. Well, there are things you hate about him, but you love him to pieces too. It's not impossible. If anything, it's normal. I suppose. My mom criticized me a great deal when I was younger (and I've told my bf this) so I am very sensitive regarding comments like that.
Star Gazer Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Now it's your mother's fault that you're insecure? LB...be a therapist to yourself rather than a victim. Wouldn't you tell yourself to take ownership of your self-worth, instead of giving the power to someone else? You don't have to be perfect, LB. You never will be, anyway. Neither will he. You just have to work on negotiating the terms of your relationship together, rather than individually. It'll all be okay, no matter what happens. Believe that.
Touche Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 I'm not getting that you're a brat or spoiled, LB. I just think you want everything to be perfect and for it to be perfect NOW. And relationships evolve usually. They're not instantly so good always. That's why I say "pick your battles." Take what's most important and deal with that first. Then deal with other things as they come up. One of the most important issues I see with both of you, as I think I've mentioned, is his need to insult you during an argument and your need to nag and be rude and sulk. No. Not productive. I do agree with the last part of what SG just said. In fact I was going to mention that myself earlier. Stop being confused about how he can love some parts of you and not like others. That IS normal. No one, even in the best of relationships, loves everything about a person. But again, I'm not seeing the spoiled and selfish part. I'm not. If anything you roll over a bit too much at times. You must find your balance. You must pick your battles. You have to stop nagging and start negotiating. Remember you're on the same side not against each other. And I know you know that but keep that in the forefront of your mind when discussing things. This isn't about who is right or wrong here. It's about finding a way to live in harmony and with no resentments. It's about finding a way to live together where you each get some of what you want/need...because it will never be always the way you want it to be. And you have to be willing to accept that - within reason. The biggest thing right now is for you to stop "nagging" and for him to stop insulting you. If you don't it will be the death of the relationship. If you can get past that, you can pretty much solve any issue that comes along I think.
Art_Critic Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Now it's your mother's fault that you're insecure? SG.. She didn't say that it was her mothers fault.. She said her mother criticized her as a child... She stated a fact.. If I told you that my father was a drunk and was an idiot to me when I was a child how would that be me blaming my Dad ?.. it really happened Why is it that you are driven to pound LB into the ground with some of your posts ?.. you have given her good advice but when you take to attacking her and calling her names it removes all the good your posts do
Star Gazer Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 SG.. She didn't say that it was her mothers fault.. She said her mother criticized her as a child... She stated a fact.. If I told you that my father was a drunk and was an idiot to me when I was a child how would that be me blaming my Dad ?.. it really happened Why is it that you are driven to pound LB into the ground with some of your posts ?.. you have given her good advice but when you take to attacking her and calling her names it removes all the good your posts do She said, "My mother criticized me SO I am sensitive." "So" = fault. Not rocket science, Art. She said the same thing about BF, blaming him for her insecurity, and then took ownership of those feelings. I have absolutely no malicious intent towards LB whatsoever. I'm sorry you see such evil intent behind my posts to her.
IrishCarBomb Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Me: As far as last night goes, I was thinking about what you said. Yes, I admit that I can make little spoiled comments sometimes. Just like you have a tendency to give parental lectures. It's ACTIONS that we both don't like. And they can be changed. But the way I see it, I love you even though you will give the occasional lecture. It doesn't make me want to live with you less or be with you less. Can you work on it? Yes. But it isn't something that I would leave you over. Is it necessary to point the finger back at him? As SG said, I realize you're just using it as an example, but this would anger me if I was your bf. You mean to apologize, but still need to bring up a flaw I have? To me it's just trying to deflect the issue. It's not necessary to say at all, but maybe your bf wouldn't care as much. Why not just say "I know I can make spoiled comments sometimes, and I realize that it's a bad thing, and it's something I want to change. I hope you can help me with it, and we can go on without it being an issue."
Art_Critic Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 I have absolutely no malicious intent towards LB whatsoever. I'm sorry you see such evil intent behind my posts to her. Of course you don't.. you have spent tons of your time trying to help her.. that is why the pounding on some posts doesn't make sense.. I have never seen you as evil SG.... I didn't mean to start anything... Sorry....
Star Gazer Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Remember you're on the same side not against each other. This isn't about who is right or wrong here. It's about finding a way to live in harmony and with no resentments. It's about finding a way to live together where you each get some of what you want/need...because it will never be always the way you want it to be. And you have to be willing to accept that - within reason. How true that all is!!!!
Star Gazer Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Of course you don't.. you have spent tons of your time trying to help her.. that is why the pounding on some posts doesn't make sense.. I have never seen you as evil SG.... I didn't mean to start anything... Sorry.... You said I am "driven to pound LB into the ground." To the contrary, I'm driven to help LB see the other side of the coin, because soooo many people here are so focused on the BF being the bad guy. You never quite understand anything I say, instead you twist it around. Saying a fact, namely, that your dad is a drunk, isn't blaming your dad. Obviously. Not sure why you would try to make that connection. But saying, "My dad was a drunk and now that's why I abuse women," would be blaming your dad. Saying, "My dad was a drunk and that's why I have a hard time showing up to work on time," would be blaming your dad. Saying, "My BF said XYZ to me, no wonder I'm insecure," is blaming the BF. Saying, "My mom criticized me, so I'm sensitive," is blaming the mother. Anyway, back to LB please...
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 14, 2008 Author Posted July 14, 2008 SG.. She didn't say that it was her mothers fault.. She said her mother criticized her as a child... She stated a fact.. If I told you that my father was a drunk and was an idiot to me when I was a child how would that be me blaming my Dad ?.. it really happened Why is it that you are driven to pound LB into the ground with some of your posts ?.. you have given her good advice but when you take to attacking her and calling her names it removes all the good your posts do Wait, I never said my mom made me insecure. I said my mom criticized me a lot, so I am sensitive sometimes when it comes to criticism. I wasn't even talking about being insecure. She didn't force me to be sensitive, but her comments did hurt me a great deal so when other people do the same, it brings back bad memories and I feel the same way I did when I was younger. Similar to a child who gets beaten and develops depression as a result. His parent didn't MAKE him depressed by beating him, but did contribute to the problem in how the child feels.
Touche Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 How true that all is!!!! Thanks, SG. Yeah, it's taken me a long time to learn that. I mean I used to freak out and nag about things but it got me nowhere. So you learn what works and what doesn't.
Lishy Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Insecurities come for a reason - Your bf is making you feel insecure at times and that, on top of your natural insecurities, makes matters 100 x worse! He also has a problem that needs addressing an quick, his abusive words when you argue and his need to put you down! That is a serious problem that will get much worse of not dealt with! We are how we are for reasons - Saying that LB is insecure because of feelings she had as a child is a REASON not an excuse for being insecure. The brain is a complex piece of equipment and we are fuelled by past experiences. Comparing making excuses for being a wife beater or a rapist is not the same as offering the reasons behind our insecurities, is it? That to me is like comparing chalk with cheese! My agreements on this thread lie with Touche, I have not disagreed with one thing she has said. I also believe that LB is not so much spoiled and brattish I think her insecurities and low self esteem cause her to say the things she does - she needs to work on her insecurities and self esteem (caused by her mums put downs) I feel that she bows out too quick and is too quick to try to please her bf and he is taking advantage of her insecurities for his own ends. We do have to think about our own wants and needs as no one else will! Of course we then have to learn to express it in the best way. One thing no one her has picked up on is the fact that he was extremely extremely mean to her when she had done nothing wrong - He was the one who was late and didnt call, I am sure he would not have been happy had she done the same!
Mary3 Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Ok, I'm not getting something here. The fight was about him not coming home when he said he would and not even calling? Well if that's the case I don't blame you for being upset. That's inconsiderate. You both should have stuck to THAT issue and that issue only and resolved that one so that it doesn't happen again in the future. The mistake I think you both made was in bringing up other stuff that had nothing to do with what the original problem was. Also, you shouldn't have been rude and grumpy with him during dinner. And I agree that you should stop saying things about "no wonder I'm insecure." No. You're responsible for your insecurity. Not him. Don't give him that power. The way I would have hadled this was to not engage him in the insults..not react. But instead bring him back to the issue of not calling if he was going to be late. I once read that the number one mistake couples make when in the middle of a disagreement is to bring up PAST issues and also to hurl insults. Those couples who do that, don't have a very good chance at a long-term relationship. To me, the BIG issue here is HOW you fight..not what you're fighting about. And for most couples their success/failure depend on how they fight and not what they fight about.Think about it. I had to STOP when I saw Touches right on answer ! One thing you should consider you might be fooling yourself about is his friends status and how they view you . This is a BIG DEAL to someone young like your boyfriend. Their * approval * of you IS important. Like it or not. From the posts , I take it they don't like you that much ? If so, boyfriend could be pulled in 2 directions. He might not take the one you are thinking of...
Mary3 Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 I was going to say the same thing T did. The relationship isn't all about you and what you want, so don't make the conversation about you and what you want. Also, don't bring up things you don't like about him in your discussion, even if it's by way of example. Don't get off track. Keep the focus on what you should be talking about: your level of commitment to one another and how to show that to one another. Right again ! If you tell him things you don't like about him , he might become offended and start pulling away. Guys like to be loved and appreciated. If you make them feel like they are doing things all wrong , they might pull away eventually.
Mary3 Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Insecurities come for a reason - Your bf is making you feel insecure at times and that, on top of your natural insecurities, makes matters 100 x worse! He also has a problem that needs addressing an quick, his abusive words when you argue and his need to put you down! That is a serious problem that will get much worse of not dealt with! We are how we are for reasons - Saying that LB is insecure because of feelings she had as a child is a REASON not an excuse for being insecure. The brain is a complex piece of equipment and we are fuelled by past experiences. Comparing making excuses for being a wife beater or a rapist is not the same as offering the reasons behind our insecurities, is it? That to me is like comparing chalk with cheese! My agreements on this thread lie with Touche, I have not disagreed with one thing she has said. I also believe that LB is not so much spoiled and brattish I think her insecurities and low self esteem cause her to say the things she does - she needs to work on her insecurities and self esteem (caused by her mums put downs) I feel that she bows out too quick and is too quick to try to please her bf and he is taking advantage of her insecurities for his own ends. We do have to think about our own wants and needs as no one else will! Of course we then have to learn to express it in the best way. One thing no one her has picked up on is the fact that he was extremely extremely mean to her when she had done nothing wrong - He was the one who was late and didnt call, I am sure he would not have been happy had she done the same! Great Post Lishy ! I felt his hot and cold attitude , something lies hidden alot bigger than we know...Why so hot and cold ? There should be no reason for it. Unless his friends are slowly taking apart his relationship with OP ..
InLimbo2 Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Ok, could only manage to get through 13 pages of this huge thread. Laurie: You have to remember that the conflicting advice you get from posters is filtered through their own experiences and biases. I've been both a raging "I am woman hear me roar" type and a 'doormat' type - been there, done that - got ALL the t-shirts. I'm finally in the most perfect relationship a woman could want in terms of how we operate as a couple. The entire 13 pages I read revolved around one thing - POWER. Jockeying for it, playing games for it, trading things for it. A real loving relationship isn't driven by power plays, it's driven by love and respect and making each other happy. The trick is to find a partner who's primary goal within the relationship is making you happy you are with them, as it's your primary goal to make them happy they are with you. There's only a struggle when only one person is in that mindset - cuz someone is getting walked on. When both have same goal, there is no power struggle - because you both come out on top. Some issues: -He planned this before you moved in with him. Ok, he WAS remiss in not bringing it up and discussing with you again after you moved in. He's not perfect, nobody is - and this is new for him as you said - you can make sure he understands that this event was 'grandfathered' and in future it needs discussion. All this talk of 'he ordered her out" and in that vein I think is posters filtering and projecting - sounds to me like he just said "hey, the guys are coming, you may not wanna be here" type thing. -Guy weekends are no fun for us - and they don't want us around - just like we don't want them around when we have girl weekends. You will not be happy sneaking in and out of your apartment, trying to dodge them. I wouldn't be comfy waking up in an apartment with 7 guys - heck, just fighting for shower/bathroom privacy might be an issue if they are all tanked up. -As for him being immature and wanting a weekend of drunk guy behavior means he's immature and not ready for a real relationship. I say BUNK. If he were going out getting trashed every weekend - it'd be a problem. Once or twice a year - and doin it at home and not out driving - BFD. And you said unlikely to happen again. And as he ages, these 'boys nights' will tone down. My guy is 43 - our friends are 40s and 50s - they go ride their motorcycles, then sit around a deck drinking beer, talking trash, smoking cigars - and they were all hell-raisers in their youth and loving devoted men now. -Sorry for the canine reference - but the reality is - the tighter and shorter the leash, the more they will fight it. Same is true for women. I want and need personal space and freedom - I also know that if I go too far with that - he'll yank me right back if I want to stay with him. And he knows if he goes too far, I'll do same. We have boundaries that are fair and equal for all. -You yourself said if your best friend hadn't moved you'd have spent the weekend with her no problem. That in itself should tell you something. My suggestion: Tell him this event is grandfathered - any further requires discussion. Tell him to have a fantastic time with the guys. Tell him you expect he and the guys to clean up any mess made and return home to how you left it. Spend the weekend in a hotel - order Chinese food (or whatever you like), rent some chick flicks or movies you want to see and he doesn't, read a couple good books, dye your hair, paint your nails, do whatever those evenings. And tell him that because you BOTH decided was best for you to vacate the apartment you will be SHARING the cost of said reasonable hotel visit. You aren't a doormat, you didn't roll over, you set realistic boundaries for the future, you give him his guy time, and most of all - you don't help set the two of you up for a lifetime of power plays and struggles. PS - and I can pretty much guarantee that he'll think you're a cool gf and so will his friends. Lets get back to me instead of attacking everyone else.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 15, 2008 Author Posted July 15, 2008 Wow, you all have given me some excellent advice and I really appreciate it. I didn't get a chance to talk to BF last night, but we did have a great night together. We had a lot of chores/housework to do, so we both pitched in and got it all done. He stated when he came home that he was really glad to be home. I didn't really talk to him about the issue yesterday, but he did say that when I am happy like that his friends really enjoy my company. Obviously his friend's approval of me IS very important to him so I told him I would try my best to get along with them. I do think that it is importnat that I don't put myself in a "just guys hanging out" situation, because I do feel out of place and like I have no clue what to say (they all went to high school together). So maybe I am coming across as though I don't like them because of that. If they are giong to a bar or it's a group setting or whatever, it's perfectly fine, I actually end up having a really good time. I told him this after our fight and I think he did understand somewhat. I haven't gotten to speak to him regarding the committment of the apartment. I'm wondering if I even still should because everything is great with us. We had SUCH a wonderful night together, we usually do! It's only once in a while that we will have an argument like that...it's usually pertaining to his friends. So do you still think he feels "claustrophobic" and that he is regretting moving in together? Should I still try to speak with him?
Lishy Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 I would say that he probably has times that he feels hemmed in BUT we ALL do at times LB His friends are obviously very important to him and maybe you should make more effort when around them but only do what you are comfortable with. I would not give him the 'talk' about how he feels about you both living together, I would just keep my eyes wide open and try not to get too stressed! Enjoy your time together and see what happens, every couple argues at times! I would, however, get a grip on the name calling thing - In MY eyes that was the most serious problem.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 15, 2008 Author Posted July 15, 2008 I would say that he probably has times that he feels hemmed in BUT we ALL do at times LB His friends are obviously very important to him and maybe you should make more effort when around them but only do what you are comfortable with. I would not give him the 'talk' about how he feels about you both living together, I would just keep my eyes wide open and try not to get too stressed! Enjoy your time together and see what happens, every couple argues at times! I would, however, get a grip on the name calling thing - In MY eyes that was the most serious problem. Thanks Lishy. Yeah, I tried to tell him, even when we were fighting, that I didn't appreciate him calling me names. I don't call him names, even when I'm very angry, so he should give me the same consideration. He doesn't seem to understand or think about that when he is mad. I don't know how to make him understand, I could pull out some of my anger management techniques that I use with my clients, but he hates when I try to "psycho-analyze" him. I don't know what to do or how to approach it. He claims that he isn't calling me names, he is only "stating facts."
JP77 Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 . He doesn't seem to understand or think about that when he is mad. Anger is an irrational thought process. When someone sees redmist, the best way is out, instead of in and just be grateful he hasn't hit you, because a lot of men and women resort to violence, instead of name calling.
Star Gazer Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 I think you two might be best served working out your differences during calm, happy times, rather than in the midst of an argument.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 15, 2008 Author Posted July 15, 2008 Anger is an irrational thought process. When someone sees redmist, the best way is out, instead of in and just be grateful he hasn't hit you, because a lot of men and women resort to violence, instead of name calling. Yeah, he would NEVER hurt me or act violently with me. His name calling isn't really harsh or bad either I mean he doesn't call me like "you stupid little skank" or anything.
JP77 Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Yeah, he would NEVER hurt me or act violently with me. His name calling isn't really harsh or bad either I mean he doesn't call me like "you stupid little skank" or anything. Well what are you moaning for? 35 Pages of nonsense, when your relationship is fine. Girl you have insecurity issues and the sour krauts on here don't make things easier for you either.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 15, 2008 Author Posted July 15, 2008 Well what are you moaning for? 35 Pages of nonsense, when your relationship is fine. Girl you have insecurity issues and the sour krauts on here don't make things easier for you either. I never said we didn't have a good relationship. Even good relationships has issues that need worked out. And I know I have insecurity issues, I'm working on them.
Recommended Posts