Author savethedrama Posted July 11, 2008 Author Posted July 11, 2008 It still comes down to character. On top of which I don't like to state this like it's some sort of banner, but our center is Christ. No, not the we go to church therefore don't sin...but we put him at our center. We try to walk the walk as best we can. We also are Christians and we are going to a Chr. counselor. During MC my husband did break down and tell me that he thinks I am a better person than him and a better Christian. I never knew he felt this way and if he is not feeling close to the Lord right now then that very well may have greatly contributed to his new need for validation from some PYT. He admits to having some inner struggles and even some doubts. This may be why I didn't see and "red flags" as it was something he was dealing with inside himself. Who knows? We are working on our marriage together right now, but he has shown an interst in going to a counselor alone as well. I think he def. should. As a Christian, what is your response as to what a person should do upon discovering an affair like my H's or even a more full-blown A? Many Christians disagree with D, but you and your spouse are both Dvrcd. IN my situation would you have walked away or given him another chance? We both agree that Christ should be our foundation, but we also both admit that we don't always prioritize Him. I would like your input as to what criteria you used in your first M as to when it was finally time to walk away...... I re-read this and thought that it could be taken as somewhat sarcastic in some places so I want to clarify that I am in NO way meaning anything sarcastically and my questions are sincere and serious. Just wanted to make sure you didn't take anything the wrong way. I await your response Serentiy....
Owl Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 As a christian, I would refer you to the bible. Infidelity is the only circumstance that God sanctions divorce by the betrayed spouse. That's something to think about. I think that God also teaches us forgiveness. But even God puts some boundaries on forgiveness. We should forgive others as he's forgiven us. But...that forgiveness that WE receive is based on a couple of things. That we repent and turn away from the sin that seperates us from him. That we both apologize (and therefore regret) for that sin, and that we turn away from that sin and do it no more. Hmmm.... So, your forgiveness of your WS should perchance be based on the same premise? My thoughts at least.
SerenityX2 Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 We also are Christians and we are going to a Chr. counselor. During MC my husband did break down and tell me that he thinks I am a better person than him and a better Christian. I never knew he felt this way and if he is not feeling close to the Lord right now then that very well may have greatly contributed to his new need for validation from some PYT. He admits to having some inner struggles and even some doubts. This may be why I didn't see and "red flags" as it was something he was dealing with inside himself. Who knows? We are working on our marriage together right now, but he has shown an interst in going to a counselor alone as well. I think he def. should. As a Christian, what is your response as to what a person should do upon discovering an affair like my H's or even a more full-blown A? Many Christians disagree with D, but you and your spouse are both Dvrcd. IN my situation would you have walked away or given him another chance? We both agree that Christ should be our foundation, but we also both admit that we don't always prioritize Him. I would like your input as to what criteria you used in your first M as to when it was finally time to walk away...... I re-read this and thought that it could be taken as somewhat sarcastic in some places so I want to clarify that I am in NO way meaning anything sarcastically and my questions are sincere and serious. Just wanted to make sure you didn't take anything the wrong way. I await your response Serentiy.... Oh boy! I was afraid of this! I have something that I worked on prior (I've really given your situation thought!) that I will also post....but I saw this...soooo. Owl once again nailed it! I'm not sure how to answer in terms of my current H w/o getting blasted. Because we both lived through A's it makes us even more "vigilant" about not crossing boundaries (but it's not a sacrifice if that makes any sense) I guess what I'm trying to say, is we certainly have our failings and stumble along the path, but infidelity is just not one of them. We've both said it's a dealbreaker, we both know it's not idle words...we've talked at great length about the sanctity and the bond that he feels (after all how can I talk so confidently about what he would do right! I know what I will/won't do) and how infidelity absolutely shatters that...there's no trust etc...but you have to remember, we are *vigilant* going into this...there is no "oops didn't 'really' think about that and truly safeguard it" if you kwim? buuuut.... I was not as close on my walk back when I went through my exh's first A. However I was brought up with you don't just divorce. I did stay and try to make it work, so in answer to your question, I would ABSOLUTELY if I were you stay and try to make it work, "absolutely"...esp b/c of what you two have, let alone the Christian perspective:) and not just b/c it didn't go as far....even if it would come out that it did, yes I can see that temptation can get the better of someone if that guard is down, I will still work on strengthening your marriage. We're tempted to our weak spots. And we all got different ones! Without going too nuts on a secular site...It's known what those weak spots are, anything is used to drive a wedge between us and God ESPECIALLY if it's thought that it will shame us to turn away from b/c how could God love us if we did X..but that's the beauty of forgiveness (and the sin no more in that area anyway!)...but trust me, once you strengthen one area...another will pop up:laugh: It's just the nature of the walk to get closer...but if you stop and ask for his strength...it is there. He never puts a mountain in front of you that you can't climb WITH him. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can do this alone. None of us are perfect, but if you at least do EVERYTHING under the golden rule of do unto others...and the greatest comm love thy neighbor...then the other stuff really does seem to fall in place. Does that maybe make more sense on our vigilance of why I can say it won't happen? You two can get there too, if that is what both of you strive for. If it would help to get another guy's perspective I can ask my H to respond to any q's you may have on why he feels the way he does too. He's the one who actually encourages me to be on this site to "help" but like I've said numerous times I think there are others that do a much better job of it! Why I walked away from my 1st M was no easy choice though. As I mentioned he's a P.I. so he hide the A's quite well...I found out after the last one there was about 4 during the M. One started 8 mos after we got M. Everytime he needed more validation and more adoration from just me, he'd pick a fight to justify...then they'd last 3 or so mos. (I figured all of this out after the fact) When I caught him, (phone rec) he tried to deny still (I found her pic a month before the ph rec and he lied and said it was a client:rolleyes:) Anyway "at first" it was a dealbreaker...but he begged and cried for me to stay and I did...the 1st 4 mos were rocky but he did "try" in his way. We just got on more solid ground, then I was pregnant, he orig flipped out b/c it wasn't the right timing etc... Eventually he somewhat accepted it, even though he was quite ticked I didn't have an abortion, however this is when his violent streak started to come out (he was always verbally abusive but it was subtle b/c he'd tear down w/one hand and build with the other) During this time I worked to find proof of another affair, b/c as OWL said...that's in the bible, once I did...I made my plan to leave...it took awhile b/c he threatened that I'd get nothing since he owned his own business, so I had to plan to get out when he wasn't there. I honestly blew him away, he didn't know I'd have that in me, after all he pulled the wool over my eyes many times. I'll admit my self respect was in the gutter but not crushed, and through time I was able to rebuild it...but it took a good deal of work on my part. So you see, I see VAST differences between your H and him. I VAST reasons why yours is workable and mine was not. (my H's exW left him for another guy...that's why he was D'd) Had he had been a different person then yes, I could have seen staying, but honestly I wouldn't have even known someone like my H existed and I am far, far happier and at peace...however I was happy before I met him, we enhance ea other. Okay...I'm writing you books, my dear....on to the next one...but please read the next one...as I said it's more at the heart of what I see...but you asked, and I always feel awkward talking about my faith and it's importance not out of embarrassment, but b/c it's a secular site...I'd rather my actions show who I am...not waiving some banner lol kwim? Peace
SerenityX2 Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 SavetheD I was bothered by something so I wanted to come back to clarify, but I have some things leading to the point so please bear with me! ]I said that our foundation plus character (in otherwords a double layer if you will) is part of us, thereby why we won’t have an affair.True but… Our reasons are our reasons, that’s not the point. Everyone who won’t have an affair has their own reasons why. I’ve actually read an analogy by someone defending their position of never having one (by someone saying unless you try coke or been exposed to it) by saying “I know I’ll never do coke, I don’t have to have tried coke, then find out I don’t like it to say I won’t”…again not the point! The point is it’s a CHOICE. That I suppose is the heart of what I was getting at, and also really why I know my H and I won’t. (at the heart of it, not out of some fear of breaking the rules or some feeling of superiority b/c of our foundation) We CHOOSE not to. Even when we were both younger and not as close to our faith, neither of us ever simultaneous dated anyone…that was just our “choice”. We took even beginning r’ships seriously, not that it’s right or wrong or people that play the field are right or wrong…that was just our choice. Our wiring if you will. Affairs don’t “just happen” and that’s my point. You made it sound like, and I apologize if I’m wrong, that you can do everything in a marriage and *bam *it can still happen. Not if one chooses not to. Your husband “choose” to put this girls number in his phone, he then “choose” to put it under a guy’s name, he then “choose” to do this for a period of however long he “choose” not to tell you about her he “choose not to tell you it gave him an ego boost….all “choices” . Affairs most always start out slowly, a boundary is crossed, then another, and another…all “choices”. People who “choose” not to recognize the boundaries imm no matter how innocent it may appear, and don’t cross them. Not even a mild flirtation, (not necessary if you are secure, to need others stroke your ego) let alone any conversation that you would have that you couldn’t if your spouse was there or repeat it to them. Your H was in the beg of an EA and that is dangerous. It seems that you do get that, and if I am beating a dead horse, I do apologize, I’m just saying that you do have the right to understand why he did what he did…b/c it most def did not “just happen”. Unless that is honestly acknowledged and dealt with it could happen again. I’m sure you understand that this is a big deal, even if it didn’t go further that’s not the point. What if you wouldn’t have found out? Even if he was in the process of stopping would he have admitted it? Or would he thought no, that would cause damage? These are q’s you need to ask him. If he wouldn’t have told you b/c he didn’t want to hurt you…remember that happened when he crossed the line. I do believe that 2 people who are committed can make it work and yes, even stronger. He has to also admit that it was a BIG deal, not a “geez I don’t know what I was thinking…it was just a dumb mistake” b/c it’s more than a dumb mistake. It was a series of choices. Owl is a great (and free!) one for advice, since he’s been there. I’d encourage you to talk to him. I really hope I didn’t offend. It would never be my intention. Looking back I could see where it may be misinterpreted that I was saying “nah nah that can’t happen to me!” Or worse, that I’m holier than thou…and that’s not it. I think I explained our "hows and "whys", but after more thought…”choice” is was I wanted to emphasize. I do get what you mean about women not hurting another…When I was younger and in a bf/gf r’ship. Unbeknownst to me he already had a gf (we were long distance) I dropped him imm after she called me. I’d never want to be the source (even in part) of another’ pain. I knew that even when I was young. You’ll find many don’t share that though, many women out there are just out for themselves, esp in an A the W, family hardly enter into their thoughts b/c they believe the lies they are being told and/or they are selfish (they want what they want…just understand that’s their “choice”. Nothing you can do to change that, that comes from within. I honestly get a good, fuzzy feeling that you guys are going to come out of this stronger...keep the vigilance! My best to you. Really. ( I hope you had a great vacation I know you won’t see this til you get back!)
Ladyjane14 Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 I won't be able to post for a week, but, as I have decided to work things out with my H, I would LOVE to hear from anyone out there who has been thru this and prevailed. I would love any advice about how to help move on and be happy again. Our MC has been a witness to many Ms that have come through an A and been strong again - even stronger in some cases. This is my hope for my M. I will keep you informed. From someone who has "prevailed".... I've got tons of backlogged posts if you're curious. For now though, and in the hopes I can catch you before your week off... think about this... What is it you have to lose by taking your man at his word? Now, compare that to a continued atmosphere of suspicion and mistrust. If he's telling you the truth, you could be compounding your relationship problems significantly. Give it some thought. In the meantime, if you go to the site Owl recommended, I'd advise you to take your information right from the horse's mouth, Dr. Harley, and then interpret it for yourself. Avoid the boards over there. IMO, there's nothing to be gained by feeding anxieties or by engaging in punishments.
SerenityX2 Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 SavetheD, I hope you all had a good vacation. I came back to your thread b/c you said that you awaited my response which I did, but in case you had other q's from me, I won't be back...at least for a long while, if not ever. This site in general can be depressing, it's the nature I guess, but mostly when I try to help, I feel like I'm hitting my head on a brick wall and it's no fun! Even the marriage forum, many times people don't want to listen they just want to vent....understandable, but anymore it's on the verge of becoming exhausting, just "reading" about all the unhappiness, there are people much better equipped to respond and handle it. My last straw was a thread about a W who is on a vent etc...and the OP that continues to make bad choices (based on posts from year ago) ...anyway I'm studying for my RN and I find it appauling that someone would take their ethical duty and distort it so vile, and grossly, of course I can't say that in that thread....and really I feel sorry for her, I'm sure she wouldn't see that...but my point is it upset me in my personal life and I can't/won't have that. I honestly wish I never read such a disgusting, truly heartless post (her behavior but I guess when you're desperate for love you'll convince otherwise) veiled in compassion such as Wyld's but it's clear she's addicted to drama r'ships, as are many of the OW and it gave me perspective and that light bulb moment...it'll never change... My H who encourages me to stay and help and tells me to just take a break....I've had a long talk with him and I always said if it starts to get to me outside of a passing of time on the computer then I'm out, so.... I actually start back to school in 4 weeks, so I should prep. I also found myself watering down advice in order to possibly "gently" lead OW out of their unhappiness, or to see that what they are doing is unhealthy and destructive. It's not who I am. I'll never change my position that A's are wrong and destroy much more than may be initially seen, so for me to do the soft touch...it's not me, it's frustrating, I wish people could truly see that they could be happy, but it's clear that they're not ready, and the big realization that I had, is even if that one does, there will be 10 more that are lost...bottom line ,the cycle will never end, so I need to step out. Not that I owed or you asked for such a detailed explaination, but I feel bad just in case you did come back and have other q's for me. Please don't misinterpret that I think that I must be "all that". I don't, but I do believe that each of us has different gifts that we can utilize for another, and maybe my specific circumstances could help a piece of what you are going thru...I wish the best for you and your marriage recovery, I'm not sure if it was best if I did just let this thread rest and me to disappear, but I do care and realize that it's just not nameless, faceless cyber people, there are real people with real feelings and heart and soul on the other end...and just disappearing isn't my style since you said you awaited my response. Anyway...take care.
merlin2 Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 sorry, do you mind if I leave the biblical quotations out of it? Biblical quotations dont help anyone,well maybe some in times of need.What I saw of your post, you had a great marriage, no 'conventional reasons' for your husband straying emotionally, physically or whatever.The fact is, he seems to have needed some validation he was still attractive.What makes a lot of men not take the chance is what they have to lose.Right now you are in shock, denial, going back and thinking what a good relationship you had etc. The fact is he betrayed your trust and you sound like an intelligent woman.One day I hope to emigrate to the USA as therapy seems to be the only course of action over there. You have said you're an attractive woman, attentive etc, that says to me he had no reason to hurt you like this apart from pandering to his own ego.The moment you stop making excuses for him and let him know you are going to move on, the better for all concerned.you said you had temptation-you NEVER acted on it.Thats what makes him different from you and not worthy.There are a lot of men out there who would appreciate you, your husband will only realise how amazing you are when you let him GO.If you really want him back you have to do that, I know you love him, but you have to play him at his own game, no matter how painful it is.the balance has been shifted in your relationship(no counselling is going to change that).Hard as it may be, remain detached from him, keep him at arms length, let him worry.Only after a separation, might your relationship get back on an EVEN keel.You dont know what you've got till its gone.Some men put us on an emotional rollercoaster, and we cant even deal with that, they leave us shellshocked.They see your need to get the realtionship back on track, our acceptance of the blame as validation for their actions. Beleive me, you have to make him beg for you to take him back or next time it'll be easier for him to do it.
OpenBook Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Hi Drama, From what you've written, I believe that your H values you and your M and family together more than anything else. I also believe that he is a man, and (like all men) he is vulnerable to the attentions of PYT's out there. It doesn't mean that the PYT's are significant to him... at least, not when compared to what he has with you. I think the most upsetting thing for you is that he would risk everything you guys have together for a fleeting, meaningless experience with a PYT. It doesn't make any sense. But he's a man. You never really know another person. And I worry about people who state unequivocally that their S's would NEVER cheat. It's almost like tempting fate. May I just throw this thought into the ring... I have no idea if it's true in your case or not. But is it possible that your H may have felt a little overwhelmed and smothered by all the attention you lavished on him? If I know one thing about men, they love mystery, the unknown, a woman who challenges him a little, keeps him on his toes. It is obvious to me that your H really loves you. That (I believe) is your greatest hope for your M succeeding. I think you're doing the right thing by laying down the law ("he gets one chance"). And I hope you find the answers together, and make it work.
Lizzie60 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Good post OB.. I also think he loves her.. (so many MM loves their W but still cheat).. I would also like to add that this guy is 35 and the OW is 21.. she's not a 'girl'..but a 'woman'... Some MM do love their W but for some mysterious reasons, still need validation or sex outside.. eventhough they have everything at home.. go figure.. and I agree with what you said: no one ever fully know their partner.. NO ONE!!!! every single man can cheat at one point.. no matter how much they 'love' their partner..
soda Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Good post OB.. I also think he loves her.. (so many MM loves their W but still cheat).. I would also like to add that this guy is 35 and the OW is 21.. she's not a 'girl'..but a 'woman'... Some MM do love their W but for some mysterious reasons, still need validation or sex outside.. eventhough they have everything at home.. go figure.. and I agree with what you said: no one ever fully know their partner.. NO ONE!!!! every single man can cheat at one point.. no matter how much they 'love' their partner.. Some MW also need this validation...it's not just men. I think some people stray just because they want to know that they still have the ability to obtain a new, exciting relationship. In this case, I think OP's H just liked attention. I don't see any good reason why OW (21) would trade down for a 35 year old who won't have the energy to keep up with her. Save your "I have that energy" nonsense. If you are more than 10 years older than the person you're with, you are fooling yourself. You're also as dumb as Barry Bonds if you think others will think you've found the fountain of youth. I'm just in a foul mood. Yeah, you know, going through the big D and all.
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