savethedrama Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I have been married for almost 12 years. Besides the basic ups and downs we all have in marriage, I have been very happy with my husband. In fact, I would say that we were especially happy in the last 2 years and doing very, very well. Im the type who tries to keep things fun and spicy. I am happy with my body, try to wear stylish clothes and stay trendy for my age. I flirt with my husband and try to be sexy and keep the fire going. Our sex life is active and healty. He does the same. He takes me on dates without the kids and seems to truly love and respect me. We are spouses to each other first and parents second - trying to maintain a healthy relationship. He is extremely goodlooking and he does get hit-on a lot. While I get a little jealous sometimes, I have always been confident that he loves me and would never cheat. I try to make sure I give him all the attention and flirting he would need so he doesn't go out looking for it from someone else. He did the same for me. It seemed like all was well until I recently came across a phone bill and was SHOCKED to find that my husband was text messaging a 21 year old girl! There were a few days where he texted her up to 75 times! I saw where he texted her during our 8 year old daughter's b day party, and even on his way to buy me roses on Valentine's Day. This went on for almost 2 months. After doing some investigating on his phone I finally found her texts under a GUYS name to throw me off I guess. The only 2 he hadn't erased was one where she was offering to stop chatting with him if it makes his life "too complicated". His response was basically "please no - I don't want to stop". The other one was her saying "I want to make out with you". There was no response from him to that one. I was very hurt and confused, but I decided to calmly confront them both. Of course, I immediately assumed the worst and thought there was definately sex involved. I was ready to kick him out. I confonted HER first and she swore that it was "just bs" and friendly chat. When I confronted him his story is this: She was 21 and she came over to him and gave him her number. He put her number in his phone under a guy's name so I wouldn't find any evidence if I got suspisious. He claims he was flattered and got an "ego boost" by the attention from such a young girl so he called her. He felt weird about talking to her so he just started texting instead. He says it was never about sex, just about the attention. But why would a 35 year old waste his time to be "just friends" with a 21 year old girl? My thinking was that it would have lead to sex eventually. He swears he loves me and only wants me. He swears he feels lucky to have such an attentive wife and has never felt the need to be with another woman physically. He says it was a mistake and it was stupid and he was just selfishly stroking his ego. So why do I feel like I am constantly in competition with a younger woman? Why do I feel like he is SETTLING for me when he could have someone so young (and HOT I'm sure). My self esteem has taken a real blow and I have become pretty insecure. Also - what kind of guy is he? Is he the loving husband and father I thought he was? Or is he really the guy who was texting his girlfriend during his daughter's birthday party while I was standing only a few feet away? Is he going to be happy with me as I continue to only get older? I don't want end a good, strong relationship over text messaging but I don't want to be a fool or get hurt again. I have over-thought this to the point of confusion. Was this cheating? A man's perspective would be helpful but ANY advice will be taken to heart....
theobserver Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Is he the loving husband and father I thought he was? Or is he really the guy who was texting his girlfriend during his daughter's birthday party while I was standing only a few feet away? Honestly In my opinion I'd say it's all of these things. What you need to consider is just how far would this have gone if you had not found out you just don't know and that's what's eating you up. It doesn't matter how happy you think a person and in this case spouse is you've done everything right, your keeping the relationship constantly fresh and not "living for the chidren" as so many couples do and burn out from lack of attention and it seems he was doing similar so you both don't get bored and yet it clearly wasn't enough and he engaged in communication with another woman excessively. Now I think what he did was wrong incredibly wrong, he's had an emotional affair the fact he felt the need to communicate with her during your daughters birthdays says a lot to on how much she means to him. How sincere was he in his apology? I would not be surprised if he will continue to communicate with her using another medium or just with a Pay as you go phone. My advice, If you didn't make it clear the first confrontation you must make him no this IS NOT ON! and if anything remotely similar happens again that's it he's gone your over and filing for divorce no ifs ands or buts. He needs to hear this because if you easily forgive believe me he will think he got away with murder and that anything he deos you will forgive him and he'll just do it again and cover his tracks better. A part of me also says get some counselling if he cares he should be willing to attend, he could be going through a mid-life crisis and there may be some things he can not for whatever reason communicate with you on how he's feelings without professional 3rd party help. He might also just be an as*hole that's masked his true self very well for years. If you feel you can work through this and he truely wants to also then feel free to try the many resolution routes. If however he's repeating the behaviour has no consideration for the trust he's broken then consider ending it. I'm not going to say think of the children I always find that annoying to have people live in misery for their children so do what you feel is best. Chin up Good luck whatever you do, and lets hope other people give some advice also.
Author savethedrama Posted July 7, 2008 Author Posted July 7, 2008 Marriage is important to me, but not just marriage - a HAPPY marriage. He knows I will not stay in a troubled marriage for too long without us both trying to make things right. I did tell him to leave at first. I pushed him into his closet and told him to pack his s&*^ and leave until I could sort things out. i found him in his closet on his knees crying a few minutes later... He seems sincere. We have gone to counseling. It was actually his idea - knowing me well enough to know that I will have a very hard time trusting him again. It helped, but it is on hold now as the kids are out of school for the summer and we have no time to go. We will resume counseling in August. I think the problem I am having is not so much how sincere he is in his apology - but really whether I truly believe that this girl wasn't more to him. Im not really sure I TRULY BELIEVE that it wasn't a PA. Its funny you mentioned the pay as you go phone. I have actually thought of that and have been searching his truck for any extra phones. How sad that I've become THAT wife. I just don't want to throw away a good thing if it wasn't anything more to him than a exploration.. Ive been approached by the opposite sex plenty of times. It IS flattering. I got a kick out of it too - but I didn't act on that feeling because I know I am commited to my H no matter what my FEELINGS may be for another person at any given time...... I
trubella Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 im not married but i went through something similar with my SO when he started texting a woman i knew nothing about until i seen a text he intended to send her. he was texting her for a month and it really hurt knowing that he would keep something like that from me, so i kindof know how you feel. i was fully trusting of him until that happened then i turned into THAT woman you described, the insecure non-trusting one who knows their SO is capable of anything at this point if he could hide something like that. he also told me the same thing, that it was just texting-nothing more.. fed his ego to have another woman who showed him interest but he never crossed the line so he says. its taken awhile for me rebuild trust with him...its still a work in progress. but if you love him and your willing to rebuild things with him and put it behind you(which is the hard part) ive been able to forgive.. but forgetting is another story.. id give him a chance to make things right- dont let him get too comfortable either. he has to earn your trust again.
Author savethedrama Posted July 7, 2008 Author Posted July 7, 2008 What I am hoping to do is hear from others who have been through a similar situation. I found out about this all in March. He had been texting her since February. The first few weeks were horrible. I felt physically sick and lost about 15 pounds because I couldn't eat. I would wake up and it would be the first thing I would think about. Now it's a little better. I may even go through a whole day without dwelling on it but then it will hit me and I will go thru bouts of sadness and anger. I know that my situation isn't as dire as some of the others on here (my heart goes out to those of you who have no hope for a reconciliation). But it hurts just the same. I feel like my life is at a standstill. HE is the one who hurt me, but now it is up to me to pick up the pieces and try to move on. I don't know how to do this. None of my friends have been thru this type of thing yet. I have no one to talk to about it. I have a lot of unanswered questions. Here are a few: My husband claims this was NOT a physical affair. I have no proof either way and there was never a time when he was unaccounted for or didn't answer his phone when I called or anything like that BUT I know you can make it happen if you are sneaky enough.... Nonetheless I have a hard time believing it wasn't a PA for some reason. The only reason I can figure for me not believing is that it seems very immature for a 35 yo man to be texting with no motive for sex. Then again, SHE was 21 and very immature when I talked to her so I can see HER thinking that it was just fun to text some cute guy... So, since I really don't know the truth, do I treat this (for the sake of helping me get over it) as I would a PA? If so, I think the marriage would HAVE to end. I don't think I could get over a PA.If not, then I can say it was a EA and try to get to the root of his reasons for doing it and we could move on and be happy. But in the back of my mind I will never really know. And of course theres the whole OTHER question of :where would it have lead if I had NOT found out?Is it normal for me to have thoughts like I want to do this to him so he can see how it feels? I have a co worker who I KNOW would be more than happy to text me 75 times a day and MORE! I would never really get revenge because my goal is to fix my marriage NOT make it worse. But I do have those thoughts.... Is that normal?My husband must want ME right? If he didn't he would have left when I told him to and NO ONE is that good of an actor to have been so attentive to me and our family before - RIGHT? He was never the type to be really into sex, sex, sex. Never oogled at other women, never really looked at a lot of porn.Is it normal for me to want to pull away and protect my heart from getting hurt again? I find myself not wanting to spend so much time together - wanting to be more with my friends. He is trying to make things better by spending more time together but I find myself saying no when he wants to meet for lunch and such...Am I hendering the progress of healing? He seems to be feeling pretty insecure right now too. Is it wrong for me to LIKE that he feels insecure?Can we ever really get back to the way we were (or even better) if I can never truly trust him again? - Will I ever trust him again? When should I expect this to stop hurting and things be "right" between us again? Would it get better quicker if I just stop stressing - be thankful that it wasn't worse, that i DID find out and just leave it at that?I know I am rambling...this is how my mind plays out every day. It's just so hard to know what is the right thing to do without making him think that he can EVER get away with this again. I don't know what I am more afraid of right now - being a fool or losing my man. I could make him leave right now and I would NEVER look the fool to anyone. But I would be breaking up a really close family. Or I could forgive and move on and possibly have a very happy life and a stronger marriage. But I would risk getting hurt again and being a fool. Which is the bigger risk? Which is the least selfish? If you have been through this or these feelings please let me know how you moved on with your life because I feel stuck.
Owl Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Here's my suggestion. Do you NEED to know if it was PA or not in order to decide to work on the marriage? Honest question...some people do, some don't. If yes, then your work is gonna be cut out for you. Hire a PI, start a full blown investigation. Get a GPS unit into his car, and a voice activated recorder. If they continue (and oods are, they will)...you'll get your proof soon enough. If not, then buckle down and set some boundaries on rebuilding your marriage. INSIST on marriage counseling. INSIST that if he remains with you, ALL contact...of ANY KIND AT ALL...with her ends...this INSTANT. Maket his a rock solid boundary for him. Trust won't come back overnight...but he can rebuild it with you with time and effort on his part. IF he remains trustworthy. He's said he only wants you...so what's he doing to get rid of her from his life? And...how is he PROVING it to you? Actions, not words, count here. Just telling you that he's doing so isn't gonna cut the mustard.
Author savethedrama Posted July 7, 2008 Author Posted July 7, 2008 When I confronted my H about the OW, and he told me his side of the story he said he would do whatever it took for as long as it took to help me believe him. He handed over his phone and told me he would stop all contact with her right then and there. I immediately erased her number from his phone, but was still having a hard time knowing SHE has his number so he went and got a new number and changed phones all together. He thought this would help but then I thought about the Pay AYG phone possibility and have been checking his truck for any signs of strange phones... (I haven't mentioned anything about the possibility of the PAYG phone to him at all). I spoke to the OW a few times to see if the stories added up and they did. ( I spoke to her 2 times before I ever confronted him.) I told her at one point that she could have him because I was DONE with him and she said, "I'm, like, dating other people. I, like, don't even want him!" There were MANY texts but only a few phone calls. And the texts were actually gettting fewer and fewer near the time I found out although they started out STRONG. I thought about getting a PI but when they find out he is a cop, they tend to shy away..guess its not easy to follow a cop around all day. He's been calling me a lot throughout the day to check on me. Taking some extra time off work to be around the house and visit with the kids as they are out of sch for the summer. He has planned 2 vacations and seems to be doing a lot to prove that he has had NC with "her". The weird thing is that I do believe it is over between him and the OW. I am not having a lot of trouble believing he has gone NC with her. I think I really DO believe that. We went to counseling and it was HIS idea....He seems to be really trying. My problem is the affair itself. I dont know If I believe it wasn't Physical. And, Yes. I does really matter to me. Because the fear is not him seeing HER anymore - just him doing this again. He told the counselor that he hates to see me hurt and that he hates himself for being the one that hurt me. He has always seemed to really care about my feelings - even if it means not telling the WHOLE truth. (Think: "Does this make me look fat?" His answer is NEVER "YES it does!" Even when I was 9 months preggo!!) He just isn't thr type to be brutally honest if he thinks it will hurt me. It's sweet and all - but i fear that it is this quality in him that may be keeping him from telling me that this actually was a PA. He KNOWS that it would kill me. He is saying and doing all the right things to stay in the marriage and help me move on. But if we don't get to the root of "why" then I think he'll do it again and be more careful next time. If he isn't being truthful about what really happened, then we are not going to fix the REAL problem. My hope is that I caught this in time for him to see that he was headed for trouble. I hope he sees how much it hurt me and has realized it wasn't worth it. I hope he has realized he has a pretty damn good wife and was STUPID for almost losing everything over some 21 year old who didn't even really take him that seriously. (she was 9 when we got married btw) He could come to these conclusions whether this was a PA or a EA. But my ability to forgive him if it was a PA would be very slim. He knows this. That is why I am so afraid he isn't telling the whole truth.....
Owl Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Hmmm.... Well...I don't have a good answer for you. Cops are common WS's. I've got a couple of reasons why I think that might be the case, but a large part of it is the "because they can get away with it" category. I don't have any good advice for how he can prove it to you. His job is perfect for letting him get away with it. I think you're going to have to leave it to HIM to come up with how he can best prove his trustworthiness to you at this point...and decide for yourself what you'll accept or not. Sorry I can't be more help.
Author savethedrama Posted July 7, 2008 Author Posted July 7, 2008 There really is no answer to whether his affair was a PA or an EA. Only he knows that (and her) and he seems to be determined to prove it was only texting and it didn't mean anything to him. I have two choices :I can believe him, stay in the marriage and learn to trust him again or I can leave. I guess I'm willing to give it another try but I just don't know how to move on without any kind of PROOF of what it really was. Either way, what he did was wrong and put a huge dent in what was a pretty damn good marriage. He will have to deal with that. I will have to see this for what it was - an affair. Period. Cops are certainly notorious for their marriage problems. I've always felt like he was above that behavior because he seems to do very well at keeping his feet on the ground. He's not a real "coppy" cop and doesn't take himself too seriously. I always said what I loved about him is that he didn't seem to KNOW how goodlooking he really was. He didn't act like a guy who knows he's hot. My friends always said they could tell he only had eyes for me....A few things have happened this past year that make me think he finally figured it out! He got voted "uniformed hottie" in a local newspaper and it seems like he has had more interest from women lately. Maybe it just all went to his head and made him check out his options. I just have to go with what I know about him and decide for myself. He's never been a shady character before and seems to be really sorry and trying to plug back into to the marriage and the family. I guess I'll just go with that until I find out otherwise. I just wish I knew how to move on and stop obsessing about it...... My mind is my own worst enemy right now....Thanks for your responses....
trubella Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Is it normal for me to have thoughts like I want to do this to him so he can see how it feels? I have a co worker who I KNOW would be more than happy to text me 75 times a day and MORE! I would never really get revenge because my goal is to fix my marriage NOT make it worse. But I do have those thoughts.... Is that normal? it is normal to think that, i went through a period of time after i found out where i felt alot of anger/resentment towards him, i would take alot of jabs at him, bringing up the EA often to hurt him. and he would take it because he knew i was hurting over the whole ordeal. sometimes i just wanted to get back at him in spite, but i knew that wouldnt solve anything..why stoop to that level. Is it normal for me to want to pull away and protect my heart from getting hurt again? I find myself not wanting to spend so much time together - wanting to be more with my friends. He is trying to make things better by spending more time together but I find myself saying no when he wants to meet for lunch and such...Am I hendering the progress of healing? He seems to be feeling pretty insecure right now too. Is it wrong for me to LIKE that he feels insecure? of course its normal, after i found out about the texting, i put alot of distance between us, that kindof hurt is something i didnt want to go through again. its not wrong for you to want him to feel that way. when i found about the EA i wanted him to hurt, i wanted him to feel anything. Can we ever really get back to the way we were (or even better) if I can never truly trust him again? - Will I ever trust him again? im sure with the help of MC you can rebuild that trust again, definitely not something that happens within a day or two. it takes time. its amazing how you can trust a person one day and they blindside you with their actions the next, has you question everything about that person.. When should I expect this to stop hurting and things be "right" between us again? Would it get better quicker if I just stop stressing - be thankful that it wasn't worse, that i DID find out and just leave it at that? theres no timeframe to it, i still reflect back on it every now and then, even though it happend quite sometime ago it still feels like an open wound. after it happened i would check his phone often- and he wouldnt question it, if thats what it took to make things better he would do it. your still in recovery mode- for some ppl it takes awhile to get *there* but i think what helps is that your dh is willing to do whatever it takes to put your mind at ease, the fact that he's willing to go the extra mile to improve things and admits his fault is a step in the right direction.
ohmy3 Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 wow i have read ur (all) post and i feel so much pain for u, yes 100% in my BOOK this is and affair and for some reason i would be SCHOCKED that some type of PA DIDN'T occured , (dought it) even lets say as he claims was 1st for ego, then as you go on in ur post it seems as though he would be tring way to hard to MAKE UP for and ego boost........... i smell (hear) guilt,gulit, gulit, and this sounds so much more than just texting for ego boost, i have been married 11-12 yrs and am a mother as well, been down lots of rds. and have as u describe ur keeping things good between u both is so close to most of my marriage an i would (be it me) feel all u do and it is sad u are 2 SOME POINTS BLAMING UR SELF........ don't! he has done this 2 u , if the shoe were on the other foot, think be being asking himself why? i find that hard to think...............
Tomcat33 Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 IShe was 21 and she came over to him and gave him her number. He put her number in his phone under a guy's name so I wouldn't find any evidence if I got suspisious. He claims he was flattered and got an "ego boost" by the attention from such a young girl so he called her. He felt weird about talking to her so he just started texting instead. He says it was never about sex, just about the attention. But why would a 35 year old waste his time to be "just friends" with a 21 year old girl? My thinking was that it would have lead to sex eventually. He swears he loves me and only wants me. He swears he feels lucky to have such an attentive wife and has never felt the need to be with another woman physically. He says it was a mistake and it was stupid and he was just selfishly stroking his ego. So why do I feel like I am constantly in competition with a younger woman? Why do I feel like he is SETTLING for me when he could have someone so young (and HOT I'm sure). My self esteem has taken a real blow and I have become pretty insecure. Oh my god I can't believe you are falling for his lies so easily, he has wrapped you up in them so tight. You need to step away from this situation and look at it with VERY critcal eyes, he is absolutely lying to you, and you are eating it all up by the bucketsfull. As to the last part, face it there will always be younger much hotter and sexier women out there ready and willing to cater to your man's desires. What you need to worry about is not that, it is the idea that your H can overcome that with a commited mind, heart and soul. Also - what kind of guy is he? Is he the loving husband and father I thought he was? Or is he really the guy who was texting his girlfriend during his daughter's birthday party while I was standing only a few feet away? Is he going to be happy with me as I continue to only get older? I don't want end a good, strong relationship over text messaging but I don't want to be a fool or get hurt again. I have over-thought this to the point of confusion. Was this cheating? A man's perspective would be helpful but ANY advice will be taken to heart.... Did he lie to you about this woman? YES Did he lie to you about how he recorder her on his phone? YEs Did he have communication with her behind your back? YES Did he lie to you about what he wanted out of this? YES Did he lie to you about why he didn't turn her down? YEs Would he have kept lying to you until this got further? YOU BET Can this happen again? SURE, WHY NOT? This experience has opened a door for him and it is not one that you can close for him, he needs to on his own. So unless both you and he treat this with the severity that it holds, then it will not get resolved. Yes this was cheating, it was emotional cheating.
Author savethedrama Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 Did he lie to you about this woman? YES Did he lie to you about how he recorder her on his phone? YEs Did he have communication with her behind your back? YES Did he lie to you about what he wanted out of this? YES Did he lie to you about why he didn't turn her down? YEs Would he have kept lying to you until this got further? YOU BET Can this happen again? SURE, WHY NOT? Did he lie? Yes Yes he put her number under a guy's name Yes he talked to her behind my back My H did a lot of things wrong here. In counseling he admitted that in the beginning he entertained the idea of having an A. I admit I have thought of it as well. I think most married people have at least entertained the idea. I have the phone bill to prove that there were phone calls in the beginning as well as many Tmsgs. Soon after they met, the phone calls all but stopped and the text msgs dwindled down to a few a day by the time I caught him. I think he had made his decision about the OW by the time I caught him. He said he never felt right talking to her on the phone and somehow tmsg seemed "less personal". I guess he was exploring boundaries and testing the waters a bit. But for whatever reason, in 2 months he didn't pursue anything physical so.... I have been married to this man for 12 years and we were together several years before that. I know him very well and I know what kind of guy he is. Although this has made me question what I thought I knew, I still believe we have a good chance of figuring this out. I want him to look back at this and say, "Wow, I made a huge mistake and she forgave me". There are good ones out there and even the good ones make mistakes. It was HIM who wanted to go to counseling. That in and of itself makes me think that he is sincere intrying to reclaim his marriage. This happened for almost 2 months, but for 12 years he has been an awesome husband and very involved dad. He treats me very well and we are very close. He likes spending time with me and we talk and have lots of fun together. What really made me decide to stay is the fact that for the last 10 years, when he comes home from work and the kids rush to climb on him and greet him, his first words are always the same - "Where's mom?" He comes in the house and the first person he wants to see is me. This says a lot to me and others may not understand but it gives me hope because it means that he still desires me and comes home to see ME. He made a huge mistake that has caused havoc on our marriage. I have made it very clear that he has a long road ahead of him in order to get things right again. But I am not ready to throw away a 12 year marriage and put my kids thru hell because he made one mistake. If sex was involved or if he were claiming to "love" the OW, then I would have kicked him out immediately. He has done alot already to prove to me that he loves me, he loves US and he wants me - not her. His insecurities got the best of him and he was seeking validation elsewhere. The counseling is helping him through his reasons for that. Basically, it comes down to wanting to know "he's still got it" from someone other than his adoring wife. While wrong, I do understand and we need more MC to help us get the closure we need. I will be watching my back, and I am no longer the type of wife I used to be. He lost her when he went "exploring". But I will fight for my man as of right now. Until I see that he is not worth fighting for. We have all made mistakes so I'm gonna give him a chance.
Tomcat33 Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 [ My H did a lot of things wrong here. In counseling he admitted that in the beginning he entertained the idea of having an A. I admit I have thought of it as well. I think most married people have at least entertained the idea. I have the phone bill to prove that there were phone calls in the beginning as well as many Tmsgs. Soon after they met, the phone calls all but stopped and the text msgs dwindled down to a few a day by the time I caught him. I think he had made his decision about the OW by the time I caught him. He said he never felt right talking to her on the phone and somehow tmsg seemed "less personal". I guess he was exploring boundaries and testing the waters a bit. But for whatever reason, in 2 months he didn't pursue anything physical so.... "I think" being the operative words. But you have to trust and you have to make a choice to believe in something if you want to stay with him. On this idea that he felt bad about talking to this OW I totally believe him, I am sure he did feel bad. But let me share something with you, men who are in affairs feel about it the ENTIRE time they are doing it, not one day goes by that they don't feel guilt or like they are doing something wrong, yet they continue to be in the A and some feel bad for years and the lies the cheating the double crossing continues, yet they feel "bad". Don't let the fact that he "felt bad" fool you, because feeling bad clearly means nothing in the grand scheme of things since he continued to do what he was doing and prob would STILL be doing had you not caught him. I am glad he is getting therapy he needs to work on this for sure.
Author savethedrama Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 Tomcat, It is hard for me to put in to words why I believe my H and why I decided to stick it out. I just know him and I see it in his eyes I guess. You know how it is when you just know someone? I've said before that he isn't the type of guy who is oogling women all the time. He doesn't make comments about hot women on TV or IRL, he isn't into porn - he's not one of those men who have sex on the brain ALL THE TIME. I know men like that and, while I find nothing WRONG with them I tend to see them as the type who seek out affairs and look for ways of always getting MORE than what they have. While I'm sure that sex would have been an added benefit for my H had he decided to go thru with his first intention, I think his reason for straying was more than a sex thing. If I thought it was a sex thing I would have been less inclined to stay. Now, hear me out - he IS a MAN and I know sex is a part of this too, but if it was all about sex he would have found a way to make in happen in the 2 months he was in contact with her. For whatever reason, he didn't take it there. Obviously I can never know for sure what was in his heart and mind when he was going thru this. Just the same - know one knows for sure what their spouse truly feels they just have to have faith. We all get married based on the faith we have put in the person we love. But we never truly know.Your words are not falling on deaf ears. I KNOW the possibility exists that he is not true in his desire to make this up to me and stay faithful. He could find someone new tomorrow and I would have been suckered! It kills me to think this. This has not been easy for either of us. I have to find a way to make sure my H knows this is NOT okay and that he is a goner if he pulls this again. But at the same time I have to be able to continue to have a marriage partnership with him which means not making life a living hell and making him run SCREAMING into her arms because I have become a bitter, angry woman. The agreement (thru MC) is that we don't talk about it anymore outside of our sessions. So, we go on - sex has to continue, life has to go on. We have to make a conscious decision every day to make sure our family is still functioning. That our kids are still being nurtured while I am going thru hell. That we go on a summer vacation so that the kids can still have the experiences they deserve even tho Dad and I are struggling. I feel like the whole world could look at me and see the scars this has left on me but no one can so I must keep my chin up. All I really want to do is pull the covers over my head and close out the world. My son heard me crying a few days after this happened and, being 10, he somehow knew it had to do with me and H. He was extremely upset and the next morning he asked me to PROMISE we would not get a divorce. How do you answer that? How could I promise that? It was probably wrong of me, but I looked at him and I promised him. I just wanted SO BADLY for him to be innocent and trusting and secure. He was physically shaking and looking to ME to give him some answers. So now I just have to remember that moment to remind me what is a stake here. I will try my damndest to make sure I keep my promise to him. My husband has vowed to do the same. I have to believe that WE will be even stronger after it's all said and done. For some people it works - for others it does not. I understand that. I'm just hoping that we are one of the lucky ones. Make no mistake about it though. Once is too much for me to handle as it is. If there IS a next time I am gone. No more trying. He gets ONE shot.
SerenityX2 Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 As to the last part, face it there will always be younger much hotter and sexier women out there ready and willing to cater to your man's desires. What you need to worry about is not that, it is the idea that your H can overcome that with a commited mind, heart and soul. TC nailed it on that one, if he doesn't fix his "need for validation" from others this will haunt you. My exh is a P.I. like Owl said, damn perfect cover for A's...I didn't find out for years. (the first "real" one I stayed b/c he begged me to and wasy crying etc...) Anyway there's another mixed bag of traits with him that bear no resemblance to your H. BUT a BIG similarity is the need for validation that "need" even from you. You mentioned he's not into porn, oogling others etc and that's the "type" that typically have affairs. That's "one" type ...there are others, such as the "need for validation" whom maybe they're not even actively out there looking for it, but if it's presents itself even in the form of mild flirtation, yes it could very well develop to something more. You say "most" (and I appreciate the clarification;)) marrieds entertain the thought. Not necessarily true. My husband and I never did, not when we were with our ex spouses, or now. It just doesn't cross the thought processes to go there and yes we get hit on from time to time....both of us shut it down though as neither of us "need" validation. Owl has described in prev posts about the blurring of lines, discussing things that you should only w/spouses etc...that really are the crux of it and why affairs of this type happen. I appreciate that you are somewhat still reeling and feel that you possibly "affair proofed" your M and look it still somewhat happened so it can happen to "anybody"...but the truth is in that person's character and their security of who they are. My H would never cheat. Neither would I. That may be arrogant to some, but I do know that...backed from his actions and character in all he does. I say this because you seem to not want caught up in this again. (understandable...when I did in fact have proof of my exh's affair I did take steps and I left) So make sure you dig and dig deep if that's what you need to do, if things seem complacent don't get caught up in that b/c you'd rather turn a blind eye. My point is there are guys out there that won't even entertain the idea b/c they're secure in themselves and yes, I know of others beside my H but they are rare. You mentioned resuming counseling in Aug. I'd urge you to make sure that you do. It may be easy in the next for weeks for him to go over and beyond and you may start to feel really safe. I don't think an EA is any less damaging than a PA...it's still a breach of trust. I wish you the best. It's not easy to live looking over your shoulder or checking someone's phone btdt...would never travel that road again.
Tomcat33 Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 I understand this is both devestating and painful for you, and the idea of having to balance your regular life with the task of overcoming this must be so difficult. I can totally empathise with that. I am not questioning why you are choosing to stay with him and work it out, it makes perfect sense that you would try to work this out. I was simply pointing out that people who do have affaris feel terrible about what they do but they still do what they do. It is not unique to your husband that he felt "bad" about certain aspects of it, most people do. My H did a lot of things wrong here. In counseling he admitted that in the beginning he entertained the idea of having an A. I admit I have thought of it as well. I think most married people have at least entertained the idea. I have the phone bill to prove that there were phone calls in the beginning as well as many Tmsgs. Soon after they met, the phone calls all but stopped and the text msgs dwindled down to a few a day by the time I caught him. I think he had made his decision about the OW by the time I caught him. He said he never felt right talking to her on the phone and somehow tmsg seemed "less personal". I guess he was exploring boundaries and testing the waters a bit. But for whatever reason, in 2 months he didn't pursue anything physical so.... also I find it odd what you said that most people entertain the idea of having an Affair. I can't imagine two people who are happily married entertaining the idea of infidelity. That just doesn't make sense to me...I could be wrong maybe all married couples are secretly wishing this and their rels are great?
SerenityX2 Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 I understand this is both devestating and painful for you, and the idea of having to balance your regular life with the task of overcoming this must be so difficult. I can totally empathise with that. I am not questioning why you are choosing to stay with him and work it out, it makes perfect sense that you would try to work this out. I was simply pointing out that people who do have affaris feel terrible about what they do but they still do what they do. It is not unique to your husband that he felt "bad" about certain aspects of it, most people do. also I find it odd what you said that most people entertain the idea of having an Affair. I can't imagine two people who are happily married entertaining the idea of infidelity. That just doesn't make sense to me...I could be wrong maybe all married couples are secretly wishing this and their rels are great? Nope, TC you are correct! Please see my post above. We'd never even entertain it.
Tomcat33 Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Nope, TC you are correct! Please see my post above. We'd never even entertain it. thanks for expressing your view on that Serenity. I've never been married but have had two very long relationships one 7 yrs another 5 and never during those times have I ever even thought about being in an A with someone else, the thought simply does not enter my mind, EVER. So I don't want to speak just for me since I don't represent all of the population but you would think most people that are happly married are not secretly thinking that. I think there are plenty more that think as you or I do Serenity!! And when a person said "we both entertained having an affair in our heads" that to me signals a HUGE red flag. I don't peice this "we were great together" but we were secretly fantasizing about cheating on each other!??! I sincerely don't get that? I see some denial on Savethedrama's part, like she is making excuses for what happened here with very general ideas that her H is some exception to the rule and therefore it is somewhat understandable what he did. And by all means it might just be easier to just accept and let "bygones be bygones" but then for the life of me if she is willing to be so understanding and forgiving of her H then what in the world would compell her to start a thread in the OW forum claiming she LOVES to BASH OW? There seems to be some displaced bashing going on here. BUT BUT BUT, in your defense Savethedrama the more I read here the more I understand. Also, Serenity I just read your other post you make some really good points. I totally agree on the "type" to have an affair. IS there really a "type?" can you honestly say, my H does not look at porn therefore he is betrayal proof? My ex was not one to look at porn or to ogle yet there you have it lied to his W for 2.5 yrs Serenity WOW didn't know your story, your H is a PI, what a perfect decoy for an A that must have been so hard to detect for you and he must have been so good at pulling it off because his living is basically sneaking around. WOW you are really amazing! I don't know that I would have your strength to be with a man that did that for a living.
SerenityX2 Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 thanks for expressing your view on that Serenity. I've never been married but have had two very long relationships one 7 yrs another 5 and never during those times have I ever even thought about being in an A with someone else, the thought simply does not enter my mind, EVER. So I don't want to speak just for me since I don't represent all of the population but you would think most people that are happly married are not secretly thinking that. I think there are plenty more that think as you or I do Serenity!! And when a person said "we both entertained having an affair in our heads" that to me signals a HUGE red flag. I don't peice this "we were great together" but we were secretly fantasizing about cheating on each other!??! I sincerely don't get that? I see some denial on Savethedrama's part, like she is making excuses for what happened here with very general ideas that her H is some exception to the rule and therefore it is somewhat understandable what he did. And by all means it might just be easier to just accept and let "bygones be bygones" but then for the life of me if she is willing to be so understanding and forgiving of her H then what in the world would compell her to start a thread in the OW forum claiming she LOVES to BASH OW? There seems to be some displaced bashing going on here. BUT BUT BUT, in your defense Savethedrama the more I read here the more I understand. Also, Serenity I just read your other post you make some really good points. I totally agree on the "type" to have an affair. IS there really a "type?" can you honestly say, my H does not look at porn therefore he is betrayal proof? My ex was not one to look at porn or to ogle yet there you have it lied to his W for 2.5 yrs Serenity WOW didn't know your story, your H is a PI, what a perfect decoy for an A that must have been so hard to detect for you and he must have been so good at pulling it off because his living is basically sneaking around. WOW you are really amazing! I don't know that I would have your strength to be with a man that did that for a living. Ackkkk...TC NOOOOO EXHUSBAND is a PI...whew:D Husband...no, he does restoration. As far as "type" I think there are various "types" and "types" that don't. Of course there are grey areas all abound, (MM looking to get out etc...) but to be happily married AND looking or needing to feed the ego, is a bit of an oxymoron IME. As far as her being in denial, I'm not sure...I'm sure she is reeling. I understand fully the whole "dress the part" etc...but honestly and I can only go on what I read, I see a bit of insecurity on both their parts thus the willingness to "entertain" the thought. I was a jealous person when I was with my Exh but he in part fed that (he loved the attn he got while reassuring me I was the only one he wanted they couldn't hold a candle to me, crap like that) He was insanely jealous if a gas station attendent talked to me:rolleyes: (silly me thought I should be flattered by his jealousy )but even then I didn't "entertain" the thought..we'll we know my exh did more than entertain! Anyway when I left I worked on myself...one of the things I worked on was I was able to abandon jealousy, it can be overcome, but it has to come from TRUE happiness and security within. Both my husband and I are comfortable with who we are. Neither of us has a problem getting older (many people have issues when they cross various mile marker ages) Perhaps it has to do w/genetics as I'm told I look 10 years younger....even though I know there will always be younger, hotter, it doesn't faze me, I like what I see in the mirror...I don't let "it" define me, that's my heart...my husband was actually the only one that got that about me, the rest is was about my face or my legs kwim? but I honestly have zero problem getting older. Some do, thus the need to get that validation they still got it, so if they don't solve that now, every mile marker age may present a problem, at the least depression. Honestly TC I have no regrets of the pain and path my life took "if" that was the only way to get to where I am. It's what molded and shaped me.
Author savethedrama Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 My H would never cheat. Neither would I. That may be arrogant to some, but I do know that...backed from his actions and character in all he does. I think it's wonderful that you have so much trust in your H. I do not doubt that he is the person you say he is and I certainly don't wish any less for you than everything you say your marriage is. But I have to say that the VERY DAY before I found out about the texting I would have confidently uttered those exact same words. It's been 10 years since we have had any big issues in our marriage. We did everything together. He was respectful to me. Never came home late - his hobbies involved the whole family (horseback riding, boating, skiing.) He was a very good husband with no shady character qualities. This need for validation, I THINK is a recent development. I believe he is a good man who did a bad thing. I have days where I still doubt him (I was having an especially bad day when I originally posted. Read it and you will see how I DOUBT!), but based on how we were BEFORE this happened, I am just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Yes, I could be wrong. I, like you would be if this happened to you, was blindsided by this whole thing. I would have bet a lot of money that my husband would never cheat. And he knew this. His biggest fear right now, besides losing his family, is that I will never look at him the same again. He KNEW how highly I thought of him. We used to have LONG talks about infedelity and trust (when our close friends went thru an A). I don't believe that "once a cheater, always a cheater". I wasn't faithful to any boyfriend I ever had before marriage. I cheated on my H when we dated way back in HS. Maybe that's why I thought about it some early on in the M. But I have not been unfaithful to my H and I never will be. When I say I have entertained the idea of having an A, I didn't mean to make it sound like I almost did or that there was ever a specific person who "almost" made me cross the line. But early on in my marriage, when I was younger and didn't put my M first, I had my own insecurities to deal with. I just remembered thinking "what if...". I would never act on it, but I did think about it. I don't think it's anything tragic.... I am still very hurt by all that has happened. It hurts. Physically hurts. Yes, I have doubts, I have questions, I have a long way to go. I know where TC is coming from in trying to remind me to be careful and not to get too comfy. I know there are pitfalls. I KNOW. I am living this. I know that my marriage -as I knew it- is over and we are starting over from a differnt place. If things do not work out for us, then at least now I can look back and know that we did everything we could for a marriage that wasn't bad and three kids who adore their dad. If I walk away NOW I'll never know if we really tried our best. If I am to get over this, I will have to make all the puzzle pieces fit together and be okay with what happened. For all that my H did, I need an answer as to why. BUT those answers have to be enough for me even when they hurt. I am not trying to make excuses for my H. But I have been forced to see his answers as to why for what they are. They are his answers and I have to accept them and move on. I am not in denial but since I decided to stay in this M, then the first step is accepting his apology and taking it for what it's worth. I don't think my H is any better than anyone else besides the fact (it IS a fact) that our marriage was pretty good. We had no big issues, we didn't fight a lot and we spent a lot of time in each other's company. I can't say I have decided to STAY and then still not accept any apologies or explaination. I think TIME will tell if my H will do this again or not. I feel confident that he has never done anything like this before. So MAYBE, just maybe, he has seen the light and will make a choice to keep his family together. It's not like he was UNHAPPY in the marriage so I'm not asking his to stay and be miserable. I can only say that if you knew him you would understand. If you had known us as a couple you would have been VERY surprised by his actions. We are leaving tomorrow for a family trip. Hopefully it will be one step closer to working things out and seeing how we fit now that we have taken a HIT. I cannot imagine throwing away a 12 year marriage with out even trying. I guess you don't really know what you'll do in a situation until you go thru it.
Author savethedrama Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 I was never in a long term committed relationship before meeting my H. I never cheatd on anyone I was committed to and I didn't sleep around with everyone I dated. BUT I wasn't always honest with guys when I dated and often was dating more than one guy at a time. I was very into sports in HS and college and didn't take guys too seriuosly. I often found THEM too serious about me while I only wanted to date and have fun. When I decided to committ myself to M I was done with "playing around" and KNEW I would never cheat. That's how I knew I was in love and that he was the one. We dated in HS off and on. Went to college and dated other people. Then we got back together later and married after college. I won't be able to post for a week, but, as I have decided to work things out with my H, I would LOVE to hear from anyone out there who has been thru this and prevailed. I would love any advice about how to help move on and be happy again. Our MC has been a witness to many Ms that have come through an A and been strong again - even stronger in some cases. This is my hope for my M. I will keep you informed.
SerenityX2 Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 I do understand where you're coming from. You said I would have been blindsided had it happened to me. It DID happen to me from my exh. I learned to read the signs...there are always signs to someones character no matter how subtle. So I also know all too well it's very true you don't know how you will react unless it happens to you. I too thought with my first M I would be out of there...he and I also talked at great length about how he would never cheat. He used to say if one or the other of us wanted to end it to come to each other first etc...He was afraid of AIDS, he would be "shallow" if I thought he would ever cheat on and on. It still comes down to character. On top of which I don't like to state this like it's some sort of banner, but our center is Christ. No, not the we go to church therefore don't sin...but we put him at our center. We try to walk the walk as best we can. I've heard the whole "plenty of church going people cheat" and I don't doubt that...but then they can't honestly call themselves a "Christian". It's bigger than us...the path we are on is to serve HIM...not our agenda...HE comes first even before each other see, so it's not even about "us" it's about his will. We hold HIS laws and HIS truths very seriously...that in itself is our strong foundation. This isn't the forum for that but I've been asked "how" I know...and unless you experience it...it honestly can't be explained the utmost faith and trust we have in each other. Neither of us would trade it for the world, we are blessed beyond belief. We are not into material things...but the peace we have in our hearts surpasses that. We were both cheated on ...we never had that desire to cheat on our previous spouses even when they treated us lousy, so that's why I say character. We're consciously aware of temptations see...that's why I say it won't happen quite confidently...we don't go through life with blinders on quite the contrary....but we started this M knowing that's a dealbreaker on either side. What God has put together is far too wonderful than either of us could have imagined or sought for ourselves...we're not about to mess that up. Like TC said, that temptation will always be there. It's the ones that don't believe that and then are over confident in their spouse that sometimes get tripped up. We've had a very long discussion on this forum before about how "no one" can say for certain that they wouldn't cheat...that you never know unless it happens to you...and it's B.S. There are some people even without the experience just what's inside them that would never cheat. I have seen it. The ones that state otherwise are usually just trying to assauge their own guilt and/or feelings. It's becoming more prevelent with each generation though and that says alot....It still doesn't mean spouses cannot state with confidence that they know their H/W won't cheat. Best wishes on your trip...I truly hope you are able to work past this. I have heard of marriages becoming even stronger when both parties commit to the M.
Owl Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Thoughts... 1. How is H PROVING to you with actions that he's trustworthy now? 2. How are you "affair proofing" your marriage...together? 3. What "price" did your H pay for his affair? And most especially, for his forgiveness from you? Take a look over on marriagebuilders.com. They've got a forum there too that you might look at, but especially they've got a lot of free information there that could help you see what I'm getting at.
Author savethedrama Posted July 11, 2008 Author Posted July 11, 2008 Thoughts... 1. How is H PROVING to you with actions that he's trustworthy now? 2. How are you "affair proofing" your marriage...together? 3. What "price" did your H pay for his affair? And most especially, for his forgiveness from you? Take a look over on marriagebuilders.com. They've got a forum there too that you might look at, but especially they've got a lot of free information there that could help you see what I'm getting at. I think these were just meant as a few things for me to think about but I am going to try to answer them as it might be theraputic for me to write it down: 1. TRYING to prove his trustworthiness by insisting we go to counselingspending extra time at home -taking some of his earned time-off to hang out with me and kids who are out of school for the summer.encourages me to go with him when he runs errands, goes to do his hobbies, even feed the horses or rides. I think this is his way of easing my mind about who he is spending his time with and helping me keep a thumb on him without ME demanding it and always questioning him. It has made it easier.promised NC with the OW and has given me free access to his phone and vehicle...comes home for lunch so much that he is beginning to drive me crazyasks what else he can do, but I have no answers for him...2. Affair-proofing the marriage This is a hard one. We touched on this in MC but cant go back til August....I would say by getting to the bottom of WHY he did this. It started out as "I don't know" but he is beginning to have some answers. If we can figure out WHY, then we can go about working on it. Or HE can work on it...?????3. What price... HE would say that the biggest price he paid was my respect and total admiration of him. I adored him and he knew that. I still love him but I have no respect or trust right now. It kills him and he knows he is to blame. He says that I look at him differntly and I do. I thought he would always take care of me if anyone ever hurt me, but HE is the one who hurt me and I may never get over that.Of course, he may lose his family if we don't work out.He certainly lost some freedom. I will be one of THOSE wives for a long while. Ill be checkin him out and I will be VERY skeptical for a while. There WILL BE NO BOYS NIGHTS OUT for him and he is content to comply so far.We had a good thing together. This stupid mistake has cost us both a lot. He will certainly tell you that texting some little tart was certainly NOT worth the price we have both paid. In fact we pretty much got TAKEN TO THE BANK. We will ABSOLUTELY resume MC soon and I hope to get the answers I need. I will also visit that site. Thanks again.
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