soserious1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 i wish for you a happy and fulfilling life. why though would you care about his porn habit at this stage? Because I pay all the bills here ? because he gets upset because I don't walk around smiling and acting like I'm thrilled with chaste grandma kisses ? He doesn't want me but he refuses to open the marriage and gets upset when I refuse to walk around smiling and acting like everything is great.
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 i wish for you a happy and fulfilling life. why though would you care about his porn habit at this stage? Obviously it's not. She wants out also and is using porn to her advantage. He knows this so he is making smart remarks back. Like I said, porn is a lame excuse or a cover-up for the real problem(s).
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Because I pay all the bills here ? because he gets upset because I don't walk around smiling and acting like I'm thrilled with chaste grandma kisses ? He doesn't want me but he refuses to open the marriage and gets upset when I refuse to walk around smiling and acting like everything is great. I love when you said "because I play the bills." You know how the typical man feel when he's about to get ripped off half his assets.
soserious1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Obviously it's not. She wants out also and is using porn to her advantage. He knows this so he is making smart remarks back. Like I said, porn is a lame excuse or a cover-up for the real problem(s). the real problem is that my husband wants to bone 20 yr olds, he can't get aroused enough to have sex with me.. because.. drum roll please... I'm too old. Who wouldn't want out?
soserious1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 I love when you said "because I play the bills." You know how the typical man feel when he's about to get ripped off half his assets. hey that's all good,he can do whatever he likes at this point but so can I.
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 the real problem is that my husband wants to bone 20 yr olds, he can't get aroused enough to have sex with me.. because.. drum roll please... I'm too old. Who wouldn't want out? Could you give me a link to your backstory? Or tell me? I don't want to respond uninformed.
soserious1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Could you give me a link to your backstory? Or tell me? I don't want to respond unimformed. The back story is very simple..over time our sexual life diminished in both quality and quantity, we had gotten to the point of being an ABC couple.. sex only on anniversary, Xmas or birthday..though for his birthday he declined. There's tons and tons of porn on the computers though, when we go out he ogles young women so intently that he stops speaking mid-sentence, I mean conversation stops. We've talk about the issue to death and he finally came out with the truth, he loves me dearly as a person but I no longer arouse him physically, he's not into it, the work involved in getting/keeping an erection long enough to have sex with me is "too much work, not worth the effort" We've gone round and round to the point that even if he wanted to touch me now, I cringe at the very thought of it. I do believe the sexual part of the marriage is over, I could possibly see my way clear to trying to work at becoming good friends again but opening the marriage. He wants the marriage to remain closed, traditional.. and sexless.
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 The back story is very simple..over time our sexual life diminished in both quality and quantity, we had gotten to the point of being an ABC couple.. sex only on anniversary, Xmas or birthday..though for his birthday he declined. There's tons and tons of porn on the computers though, when we go out he ogles young women so intently that he stops speaking mid-sentence, I mean conversation stops. We've talk about the issue to death and he finally came out with the truth, he loves me dearly as a person but I no longer arouse him physically, he's not into it, the work involved in getting/keeping an erection long enough to have sex with me is "too much work, not worth the effort" We've gone round and round to the point that even if he wanted to touch me now, I cringe at the very thought of it. I do believe the sexual part of the marriage is over, I could possibly see my way clear to trying to work at becoming good friends again but opening the marriage. He wants the marriage to remain closed, traditional.. and sexless. Is he considerably younger than you? Did he keep in shape while you "let go?" Are you trying to make him want you or just being pissed that he doesn't? What I am trying to find out is that is there something wrong with the relationship other than sex?
LakesideDream Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Oh my, Lakeside - you really do feel strongly about this!! I had no idea. May I ask why? This isn't the normal male reaction to porn. Have you had a bad experience with porn in the past? Or does your current love interest have a problem with it? Actually OpenBook I was fairly non-committed about porn before I came to LS. Since coming to LS, I have read hundreds of posts about it and became convinced that it's super high on the list of things that most women hate passionately. It really doesen't matter if I agree with the ladies thinking or not. The reality is that the vast majority of women are so disgusted with Porn that you have to notice. Having been in a LRT (where porn wasn't an issue) and not being able to keep up with the problems, the idea of adding porn into that list is silly. I'm an old guy, and not dumb (I hope). If something is as damaging as porn... it should be avoided like a disease! I wouldn't intentionally do anything to hurt a woman I loved. Obviously chances are, messing around with porn can't help most relationships, why play with fire?
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 golfing is not the same as porn. If you are golfing 4 days a week, and it is taking away from your family/marriage time, then you can easily cut down to 2 or 3 times per week. Porn is different because it is taking away from the intimacy and love you have with your wife. So you can't just "cut down" if it's hurting her and it is not acceptable to her, if you love her then you don't do it. You seriously have no concept of what porn means to men. You're like those snake republicans that say "You're with us, or you're with the terrorists", "if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops." Sick.
White Flower Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Actually OpenBook I was fairly non-committed about porn before I came to LS. Since coming to LS, I have read hundreds of posts about it and became convinced that it's super high on the list of things that most women hate passionately. It really doesen't matter if I agree with the ladies thinking or not. The reality is that the vast majority of women are so disgusted with Porn that you have to notice. Having been in a LRT (where porn wasn't an issue) and not being able to keep up with the problems, the idea of adding porn into that list is silly. I'm an old guy, and not dumb (I hope). If something is as damaging as porn... it should be avoided like a disease! I wouldn't intentionally do anything to hurt a woman I loved. Obviously chances are, messing around with porn can't help most relationships, why play with fire? Well that is a very respectful and thoughtful answer. I think we have a new hero on the boards!
soserious1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Is he considerably younger than you? Did he keep in shape while you "let go?" Are you trying to make him want you or just being pissed that he doesn't? What I am trying to find out is that is there something wrong with the relationship other than sex? no, you're looking to find a way to pin the blame on me. He's older, I wear a size 8 dress. If you spent your day pouring after menu after menu from the world's best restaurants you'd work up quite an appetite wouldn't you? You'd be so hungry you'd even woof down the plain peanut butter sandwich put in front of you. Over time though, you'd be frustrated and angry that you couldn't have one of those four star meals, you might even get frustrated enough to fling your peanut butter sandwich into the garbage.Well, I am that peanut butter sandwich. Make no mistake here, I'm not blaming just the porn,that would be too simple. I highly suspect that a lot of this doesn't even have to do with his interactions with me .I'm thinking a lot of this is his own mid-life issues coming into play. All that said though, I'm not his mother, I'm not his therapist and I won't be forced into either of those roles. Am I pissed? of course I am, the prospect of possibly living another 35-40 years as a non-sexual entity is not why I got married.
demrea Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Well that is a very respectful and thoughtful answer. I think we have a new hero on the boards! yes it is, but its not about porn, its about anything. if your SO has a problem with porn, then of course its hurtful to to continue with it. however that is too far of a blanket statement. change the word porn with anything else. if _______ negativly impacts the relatonship ... etc .. no one answered me about the situations where the women either doesnt mind porn or is activly interested in it. so is porn in general or is the real issue about respect in regards to anything that is offensive to the other party?
demrea Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 no, you're looking to find a way to pin the blame on me. He's older, I wear a size 8 dress. If you spent your day pouring after menu after menu from the world's best restaurants you'd work up quite an appetite wouldn't you? You'd be so hungry you'd even woof down the plain peanut butter sandwich put in front of you. Over time though, you'd be frustrated and angry that you couldn't have one of those four star meals, you might even get frustrated enough to fling your peanut butter sandwich into the garbage.Well, I am that peanut butter sandwich. Make no mistake here, I'm not blaming just the porn,that would be too simple. I highly suspect that a lot of this doesn't even have to do with his interactions with me .I'm thinking a lot of this is his own mid-life issues coming into play. All that said though, I'm not his mother, I'm not his therapist and I won't be forced into either of those roles. Am I pissed? of course I am, the prospect of possibly living another 35-40 years as a non-sexual entity is not why I got married. i feel for you ... i just dont see it as a porn issue. your husband is an ass, but do you honestly feel he would be attracted to you if not for the porn in this world? i guess if thats your point of view, i can understand why you would resent porn, especially if you feel it has robbed you of something you vaued. best wishes, i hope you find a happy place to move forward to.
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 no, you're looking to find a way to pin the blame on me. He's older, I wear a size 8 dress. If you spent your day pouring after menu after menu from the world's best restaurants you'd work up quite an appetite wouldn't you? You'd be so hungry you'd even woof down the plain peanut butter sandwich put in front of you. Over time though, you'd be frustrated and angry that you couldn't have one of those four star meals, you might even get frustrated enough to fling your peanut butter sandwich into the garbage.Well, I am that peanut butter sandwich. Make no mistake here, I'm not blaming just the porn,that would be too simple. I highly suspect that a lot of this doesn't even have to do with his interactions with me .I'm thinking a lot of this is his own mid-life issues coming into play. All that said though, I'm not his mother, I'm not his therapist and I won't be forced into either of those roles. Am I pissed? of course I am, the prospect of possibly living another 35-40 years as a non-sexual entity is not why I got married. I am tthe peanut butter sandwich No I am not trying to blame this on you. The fact is, he loves you. All he is doing with porn is fulfilling a need. And since he can't do with you, 20 year old girls aren't a bad alternative. And it could be a mid-life crisis. What is the reason he gives for why he wants the marriage to be closed? And, If I saw pictures of gourmet meals and had a peanut butter sandwich infront of me, I would look at how good those meals would fill me, get hungry, see a nice sandwich there, eat it, and go for seconds!
soserious1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 No I am not trying to blame this on you. The fact is, he loves you. All he is doing with porn is fulfilling a need. And since he can't do with you, 20 year old girls aren't a bad alternative. And it could be a mid-life crisis. What is the reason he gives for why he wants the marriage to be closed? And, If I saw pictures of gourmet meals and had a peanut butter sandwich infront of me, I would look at how good those meals would fill me, get hungry, see a nice sandwich there, eat it, and go for seconds! I didn't sit down one day and decide to make myself sexually unattractive to him, I got old, not something I had any choice in. he loves me like he'd love his grandmother... I'm sorry but I could easily live another 35-40 yrs and I can't sit here living and acting like Aunt Bee from Mayberry for the rest of my life.
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 I didn't sit down one day and decide to make myself sexually unattractive to him, I got old, not something I had any choice in. he loves me like he'd love his grandmother... I'm sorry but I could easily live another 35-40 yrs and I can't sit here living and acting like Aunt Bee from Mayberry for the rest of my life. You didn't answer why he still wants a closed, traditional marriage if he won't have sex with you. This may be the core of the problem.
soserious1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 You didn't answer why he still wants a closed, traditional marriage if he won't have sex with you. This may be the core of the problem. Shrug... I pay the bills, I'm no longer useful to him sexually but I'm good at bringing in a paycheck.
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Shrug... I pay the bills, I'm no longer useful to him sexually but I'm good at bringing in a paycheck. In open marriages, everything will be the same except you can have sex with other people. So he doesn't want to have sex with you but doesn't want anyone else to, either? It would seems like win-win to him and you. It doesn't add up.
soserious1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 In open marriages, everything will be the same except you can have sex with other people. So he doesn't want to have sex with you but doesn't want anyone else to, either? It would seems like win-win to him and you. It doesn't add up. I agree.. and this is why I said I believe this is more about his mid-life issues than anything else. Quite simply I think the answer is 3 fold. First off, if the marriage is opened there's always a chance that I might well meet and get serious with somebody else.I'm reasonably slim, fully employed and am not saddled with minor kids. My getting serious with somebody else could well mean that life as he knows it will end. I suspect he has real issues about aging and how it applies to sexuality. It's easier to ignore your own aging when the face across from you in the bed is youthful, my own aging process though serves as a constant reminder to him that he's not 25 anymore. I also suspect that he thinks it inappropriate that I even still desire sex. The last reason is shared history, years together, opening the marriage would be to admit failure at one of life's most central relationships.
LakesideDream Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 From reading LS, I think it's obvious why men defend their "right" to view porn. Men largely feel that their "privacy" is being invaded. That a right to do something (masturbate) that they have always done is in jepordy. And maybe so. Most men don't realise that women masturbate too. Usually start at an earlier age, and enjoy it just as much. Most woman have different erotic triggers. I also have a thought. Many men (those born after 1975 or so) have had access to computer porn since puberty. It's programmed into them to masturbate looking at a screen. These younger men have had their sexuality molded by fantasy images that have little basis in reality. The first "full frontal nudity" I ever saw, was a real live breathing woman. I'll bet that makes a huge difference. I have no problem "conjuring" visions of current (not lately) or previous lovers. Some memories are literally mind boggling to me. But..... there is a downside. With my memories come the emotional memories as well. My mind does not seperate the two. That is very different from images generated on a screen of teenagers with prostetic breasts. As I think about it, this subject is MUCH more complicated than it appeared at first. I do stand by my original advise. I'll think about it more.
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 I agree.. and this is why I said I believe this is more about his mid-life issues than anything else. Quite simply I think the answer is 3 fold. First off, if the marriage is opened there's always a chance that I might well meet and get serious with somebody else.I'm reasonably slim, fully employed and am not saddled with minor kids. My getting serious with somebody else could well mean that life as he knows it will end. I suspect he has real issues about aging and how it applies to sexuality. It's easier to ignore your own aging when the face across from you in the bed is youthful, my own aging process though serves as a constant reminder to him that he's not 25 anymore. I also suspect that he thinks it inappropriate that I even still desire sex. The last reason is shared history, years together, opening the marriage would be to admit failure at one of life's most central relationships. See, when women really think about the problems in the relationship, they see that things like porn are just excuses used to cover up deeper problems that no one will admit. Every meaningful and smart post. I think you are right on. This is all the symtoms of a mid-life crysis. This, too, shall pass. Good luck to you.
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 How did men get along when porn wasn't available? it's not like the human species always had porn? What do poor men do who can't afford it? I know it is hard to believe, but there are men in which porn isn't a part of their lives. Umm, let see, there was never a time in history when a man saw one women (meaning looking) exclusively. Porn is as cheap as free. If watching porn occasionally means it's not part of your life, then there's a lot. To Lakeside: If women enjoy sex/masturbating as much as men, they would have no problem with men viewing porn. If they think they're vibrator doesn't equal porn, they need to think again. Both are to be seen as catalysts for a need.
soserious1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 See, when women really think about the problems in the relationship, they see that things like porn are just excuses used to cover up deeper problems that no one will admit. Every meaningful and smart post. I think you are right on. This is all the symtoms of a mid-life crysis. This, too, shall pass. Good luck to you. lol, you're so smug, so dismissive. Porn is not the total cause of this problem, however porn isn't entirely off the hook here. Being able to rapidly fill his eyes 24/7 with a parade of young beauties has done nothing to increase his satisfaction with me, his middle aged wife and has in fact caused him to rate me a lot lower in attractiveness. As as far as "this too shall pass" I think it has already passed, imho there's no way we could bring physical intimacy back into this marriage, there's been too much pain.
J2FT1 Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 I actually just looked up another forum and the question was "Do all men like porn?" A LOT of the men responded "It doesn't really do anything." "After the first 5 minutes, I get bored" "Aside from bachelor parties, I don't watch porn, I don't feel the need. The real thing is much better anyway." "Porn is boring." These responses are verbatim what were answered on this forum with the question (I googled the question and found it on another forum). On here the guys who promote porn and tell women it's 'Normal" and "All men need porn, the urge to do it you just don't understand, they HAVE to have it" are the ones who are promoting their own agenda and trying to "put women in their place and talk some sense into them. If your husband is jacking off to porn everynight, that is normal, so just DEAL." From my romantic relationships, the respondents of the above were more like the men I have dated in a serious relationships. And those who say "How do you know" well because, when you are spending all that time in the household with that man, you know these things. Just like these women where it is negatively affecting their relationships. If the guys were doing porn, at least they were not doing it that often, and it wasn't affecting the relationship to the point I even knew he was doing it. Because the last serious relationship I was in lasted 3 years and I am 100% certain he wasn't spending time doing porn. He was a grad student with a full time career and two kids, and the time he didn't have his kids he was with me, many times I was there with the kids, on top of that he had a 2nd job, believe me, this guy was either working on dissertation, spending time with kids, or working at his job, lol, porn wasn't a part of his world. Funny how you didn't give us a link. That and you cherry pick the ones you like. Very lame. And you are not 100% sure. He seems very busy and probably only watches occasionally. I've stated that men that porn everyday has a problem, a deeper problem, and it's not porn's fault.
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