sailing Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 QUOTE] PhoenixFromTheFlames; I am in touch with all the emotions you guys mention, they cycle round: love, hate, anger, fear, regret .... but none ever sticks. It's as though I can only think of him as three different people. Guy number one: The guy I wanted to spend my life with, the one who always made me laugh etc... The one I regret losing, the one I want back. The one who had all the qualities I look for in a guy. I find it hard to think badly of him. All the positive emotions are attached to him. Guy number two: The 'dumper', the guy who hurt and humiliated me. The one who left for someone else. The one I no longer respect, the one I hate and feel anger for, the one I am so disappointed in. The negative emotions are attached to this guy. Guy number three: This is the guy he is now. The guy he is with her. He is a mystery to me, but when I think of him, it's a mixture of indifference and concern. Is he ok, how is he coping with everything that has happened. It's also a bit like I want to meet guy number 3 one day. I wonder if this guy ever feels regret, I wonder if he would be impressed if he saw me now and the changes I have made etc... I wonder who my wonderful guy has become. I flit between these guys in my daily thoughts, but never seem to fuse them together into one person. I'm not crazy, honest! The way it ended was sudden (for me) and up until D-day, he was consistently guy number one. One day (d-day) guy number 2 came out, and there's been no real contact since. When I think of him in the present, he has to be guy number 3, becuase guy number one wouldn't have done any of this, and guy number 2 was momentary. I find it hard to see that guy numbers 2 and 3 were lurking underneath all that time and I didn't know they existed. I'm confused. Anyone else feel like this? Or can relate to the mental gymnastics above? Not sure I'm a benchmark for normality, but I can definitely relate. "Guy 1" is gone, unfortunately. Whatever brought out "Guy 2" , once he'd reared his ugly head I'd probably be stuck with him - or at least have him pretty close to the surface - so NC was the better option. "Guy 3" is a stranger.
orangehose Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 Anyone else feel like this? Or can relate to the mental gymnastics above? Wow, yes, I totally relate to your 'three guys' depiction. Like you, guy #1 was hilarious and charming and often affectionate, a guy I was happy to be with forever. Although, unlike you, I did see episodes of negative, alarming behavior in guy #1. I just figured, if I'm having a great time with him the vast majority of the time, why should I worry too much about the bad episodes? I didn't want to extrapolate or over-analyze, though in retrospect, I didn't extrapolate enough. Guy #2... well, he's what I force myself to remember when I long too much for guy #1. And Guy #3 - I do wonder if there's any remorse, any sense of wrongdoing there, but then I try to merge Guy #2 and Guy #3 and figure there isn't any. Somehow it is more comforting for me to assume the worst of the ex, than to assume he's sitting somewhere and feeling guilt or anything indicative of being a good person.
v33 Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 Hey V, reading that ebook, it's great. You know, I don't feel like Mr. Nice Guy anymore, but I haven't been tested yet. You know? I think the test will come once I start dating someone and they challenge me in some way that is offensive. Does that make sense? -J It does. I am finding that in my new relationship however that I am being treated with the same respect that I give and things are progressing very naturally. It's a matter of mutual respect I think. I try not to over analyze my behaviors and actions, but the book has helped me to see where in the past I have compromised my integrity to avoid conflict. I try to avoid doing that now regardless of the situation. Glad you enjoyed reading it. I am most interested in the parts that show you how to give more without compromise and being a better man for your partner. I think that's the key.
sunshinegirl Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 Wow, yes, I totally relate to your 'three guys' depiction. Like you, guy #1 was hilarious and charming and often affectionate, a guy I was happy to be with forever. Although, unlike you, I did see episodes of negative, alarming behavior in guy #1. I just figured, if I'm having a great time with him the vast majority of the time, why should I worry too much about the bad episodes? I didn't want to extrapolate or over-analyze, though in retrospect, I didn't extrapolate enough. Guy #2... well, he's what I force myself to remember when I long too much for guy #1. And Guy #3 - I do wonder if there's any remorse, any sense of wrongdoing there, but then I try to merge Guy #2 and Guy #3 and figure there isn't any. Somehow it is more comforting for me to assume the worst of the ex, than to assume he's sitting somewhere and feeling guilt or anything indicative of being a good person. That's funny...I was just having a similar thought. For a long time I'd been wondering/hoping that my Guy #3 was feeling like ass for lying/cheating; that he would be overwhelmed by guilt and eventually maybe I'd get a genuine apology. But tonight I thought - ah, but if he's NOT feeling bad about it, then *I* get to have extra assurance that he's totally not a good person and would be a horrible life partner. Someone who can't recognize when they've hurt someone they care about, apologize for it, and make amends if possible, is no one you want to tie your life to!
Chinook Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 What you guys describe with the Guy#1/2 scenario is pretty much your brain's way of dealing with the fact that the guy you thought he was, isn't the guy he actually is and turned out to be. The guy you loved is gone and he isn't coming back. Sometimes, that's why reconciliations fail because both parties fail to realise that after the trauma of a breakup, you're both different people. One or both of you have the ability to sever that emotional bond and emotionally, thats a very hard pill to take and I certainly know for me, I can't go back. I can't get my head around the fact that Guy#1 turned out to be capable of being Guy#2... not to me anyhow. I find it hard (as most people do) to deal with the fact that someone I care so much about, is capable of inflicting such pain on me.
orangehose Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 But tonight I thought - ah, but if he's NOT feeling bad about it, then *I* get to have extra assurance that he's totally not a good person and would be a horrible life partner. Someone who can't recognize when they've hurt someone they care about, apologize for it, and make amends if possible, is no one you want to tie your life to! EXACTLY - either they do feel some remorse, which is good, OR they don't feel remorse, in which case they're not a good person, and all the better that they're not in our lives anymore!
Trialbyfire Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 That's funny...I was just having a similar thought. For a long time I'd been wondering/hoping that my Guy #3 was feeling like ass for lying/cheating; that he would be overwhelmed by guilt and eventually maybe I'd get a genuine apology. But tonight I thought - ah, but if he's NOT feeling bad about it, then *I* get to have extra assurance that he's totally not a good person and would be a horrible life partner. Someone who can't recognize when they've hurt someone they care about, apologize for it, and make amends if possible, is no one you want to tie your life to! Lying and cheating aren't about you. It's about his own selfish needs. With this in mind, do you think he's capable of empathizing nvm feeling guilt and remorse over something that made him feel good? Where the guilt and remorse can come into play, is when they feel bad about getting caught, then sometimes, feel bad about losing their partners. Do you see the fine line difference of what I'm trying to say?
foxh1234 Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 Lying and cheating aren't about you. It's about his own selfish needs. With this in mind, do you think he's capable of empathizing nvm feeling guilt and remorse over something that made him feel good? Where the guilt and remorse can come into play, is when they feel bad about getting caught, then sometimes, feel bad about losing their partners. Do you see the fine line difference of what I'm trying to say? This is so true TBF, my ex GF was more upset that i found out about the cheating then the actual CHEATING!!! She still to this day has not apologized, not that I would believe her anyway. I see now that no matter what I did or said, she was going to cheat anyway. It was not my lack of anything, it was her selfishness and low self esteem that did it. I do think that down the road she will regret it.
sunshinegirl Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 Lying and cheating aren't about you. It's about his own selfish needs. With this in mind, do you think he's capable of empathizing nvm feeling guilt and remorse over something that made him feel good? Where the guilt and remorse can come into play, is when they feel bad about getting caught, then sometimes, feel bad about losing their partners. Do you see the fine line difference of what I'm trying to say? I'm not sure if I do or not. He admitted the day we broke up (but before I learned the full extent of his lying/cheating) that he was just "being selfish right now". I would have thought that since he has been a betrayed partner before, that he would be able to empathize with how I feel. But he has trouble empathizing with people in general, so maybe not? My guess is that the guilt/remorse he may feel has to do with being called out as a hypocrite and a liar when he likes to think of himself as a good, honest, stand-up guy - the cognitive dissonance probably gets to him at some level. And it's POSSIBLE that he feels bad about losing me, if the shiny happy gleam of the hooch is starting to wear off. But who knows, he could be happy as a pig in ****. Then again, I guess none of this is connected to feeling bad for the pain he's put *me* through. Is that what you're getting at?
sunshinegirl Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 This is so true TBF, my ex GF was more upset that i found out about the cheating then the actual CHEATING!!! She still to this day has not apologized, not that I would believe her anyway. I see now that no matter what I did or said, she was going to cheat anyway. It was not my lack of anything, it was her selfishness and low self esteem that did it. I do think that down the road she will regret it. Is cheating always connected to self-esteem or self-respect issues?
Trialbyfire Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 This is so true TBF, my ex GF was more upset that i found out about the cheating then the actual CHEATING!!! She still to this day has not apologized, not that I would believe her anyway. I see now that no matter what I did or said, she was going to cheat anyway. It was not my lack of anything, it was her selfishness and low self esteem that did it. I do think that down the road she will regret it. Exactly! When this perspective sinks into you, it shuts down the fantasy that they would honestly be able to empathize, thus feel real guilt and remorse. That's a much better way to put it. It's not remorse, it's regret.
Trialbyfire Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 I'm not sure if I do or not. He admitted the day we broke up (but before I learned the full extent of his lying/cheating) that he was just "being selfish right now". I would have thought that since he has been a betrayed partner before, that he would be able to empathize with how I feel. But he has trouble empathizing with people in general, so maybe not? My guess is that the guilt/remorse he may feel has to do with being called out as a hypocrite and a liar when he likes to think of himself as a good, honest, stand-up guy - the cognitive dissonance probably gets to him at some level. And it's POSSIBLE that he feels bad about losing me, if the shiny happy gleam of the hooch is starting to wear off. But who knows, he could be happy as a pig in ****. Then again, I guess none of this is connected to feeling bad for the pain he's put *me* through. Is that what you're getting at? He can never feel your pain, regardless of potential future regret. Is cheating always connected to self-esteem or self-respect issues? It's relationship reliant. I will blanket generalize on a selfishness trait though.
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