T L Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Hi all, I separated from my wife shortly after our marriage and nearly eight years together. My wife was having an affair with a coworker and she had other inappropriate relationships also. I have been pretty much NC since the split, the divorce will be final shortly and generally I am doing a lot better day by day. I knew early on that one of my female friends going back 15 years or so was still socialising with the X and I have not had anything to do with that friend since then, this is someone who I introduced the X to. I have recently found out that all the wives of my main group of friends have also been regularly socialising with my X, and have been told by one of my guy 'friends' in this group that he thought it would be ok if I was excluded from certain social situations to make way from my X and whatever guy she is with at the time. I have known all these people many years before I met my X. I feel that these people have not got my back and that they think they can tread some middle ground that does not exist. Am I overreacting to cut them out of my life completely?
Gatormaniac Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Man, this is one of the toughest things to deal with in a divorce situation. It hurts like hell. All I can tell you is that you'll have to try to see their perspective. Nobody wants to be in an uncomfortable position. There were many events that I wasn't invited to, and there were certain events I was invited to, but sent my regrets because I didn't want to put anyone in an uncomfortable position. It sure wasn't easy, but I felt it was the best thing. Now, if they abandon you, then you realize they were never really friends at all. In my case, my true friends shone brightly in my darkest days and I will remember, and cherish them always. The others...not so much. Keep your wits about you and remain level headed and, most of all, think long and hard before isolating yourself from them. BTW, I wish you the best of luck in your healing. When the worst is over, you'll be a better, stronger person.
Chrome Barracuda Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 So much for people knowing about loyalty and doing the right thing. Trust me. People who stick with people fundamentally flawed like her are either brianwashed, took her side, encouraged her behavior or just dont care. I say keep your distance, rebuild your life and get some new friends. they werent really friends to you if they treat you like crap. Screw them!!! Oh and better yet, show up with your new girl in front of your ex and show her your moving on, they are your friends too. but if they exclude you, screw them like i said and keep it moving. things have a way of coming to light more than what it seems.
Author T L Posted June 25, 2008 Author Posted June 25, 2008 Thanks for the replies guys. I have tried to see it from the groups perspective and if my X had cleanly broken off the relationship rather than lied and cheated for what amounts to years then I would expect the friendships could remain. I do feel bit sorry for the guys in the group because their partners are condoning bad behaviour and the guys are not man enough to say anything. It hurts knowing that I am single and need support from friends and need people to socialise with, whereas my X only continued our relationship until she found the company of someone else and she is the one getting the support from the group. Kind of ironic how I could be sitting at home alone and the X and her affair partner could be out with my 'friends'. These are people the X used to find boring but I suppose they serve her purpose at the moment. She is welcome to them and them to her. The other part of it is that being NC since the start has helped me no end, but now I know that the group is in contact with her I am linked back to her in a way. They could let something about her slip or they could tell her stuff about me. I am trying to increase my social circle and make single friends as all of my social group are in relationships.
vintagecat Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 I'm going to add a wrinkle to the no compromise positions taken here. I've been on both sides of this thing and it's hard wherever you sit. I think it's up to you. You need to choose which relationships with your couple friends if any are worth saving. I agree in principle that I tend to lose respect for people who socialize with bad people but the world just isn't black and white. Chances are your ex is reaching out to these people and is moving on. Doesn't excuse what she did in any way but couples tend to invite couples and they tend to want to socialize with people that are fun or at least aren't down on their life or still fuming over a bitter divorce. You need to look carefully at how you are in their company. Story time: I had a friend that I dearly loved. She had a bad break-up and got stuck in a rut of continually discussing, dissecting and moaning over that relationship long after most people could stand it and in situations that were supposed to be fun. In other words she was a real drag. While I didn't socialize with her ex, (who was a bit of a skunk) I also didn't throw food at him or start a fight when I saw him in social situations. I was polite but cool. My friend saw this as betrayal and I was blamed several times for "not having her back". I begged her to get professional counseling to get back on track but I had to slowly cut her loose when she refused to do so. She really drug me down when I saw her and her friends slowly had to cut her out. I was one of the last to lose contact. I feel for her but she became such a bummer and made so many demands on my loyalty (and I am a very loyal person in general) that I had to opt out. Make sure that isn't you. I think it's a bit unfair for you to demand that your friends get in the dirt and choose sides. You have to remember that they weren't in your marriage and while they may have some insight into what happened, most people in this situation do prefer to remain neutral because it usually takes both of the partners to bring a marriage to it's knees even if one cheats, the other may not be guiltless. No one is perfect, yourself included and they see and know that. When I was on the other side of this thing, I did lose all of my couple friends as couples and I lost most of my friends as individuals because as I said couples tend to socialize in couple formations and there is some side choosing in these things, usually it's the side with the most compelling story or the one that talks about it that gets supported. I had lunch with a few of my friends from time to time singly but I had a different life than they did and we lost our points of reference and the friendships faded. I moved on. In fact I applied for a promotion, got it and moved to another city. While I loved where I lived previously, the city was too small to really start over. Moving was the best thing I ever did in terms of claiming my own life. So here's the kicker: I was the cheater. I was in a bad marriage to a very neglectful and uncompromising spouse and I begged him numerous times to go to counseling with me. He not only refused but struck me during one of those conversations and I knew I had to get out. It doesn't excuse my behavior and if I had any courage at all at the time I would have just left him but I was young and inexperienced. I was several thousand miles from my nearest family. I had no money or any access to money other than my measly paycheck. I was miserable and had no idea how to go about getting out of the mess I was in (no one in my family had ever been divorced and I didn't dare bring it up because they would not support me) when I fell for a co-worker who was kind and sweet, everything my first husband was not. I made a mistake (and violated my own ethics) by having an affair but it gave me the courage to get out of that soul crushing relationship and to get on my feet for the first time in my life. I'm married now again for 15 years to a man that is also kind and sweet and I have never felt the urge to behave badly toward him or to not fully honor our marriage. So it's not always so black and white. Most of my friends and family (my family was furious with me) supported my ex as I knew they would as he was very charming and handsome and all they knew was that I had an affair. I didn't talk about the rest of it. My family and a few of my friends eventually recognized the other side and came around eventually. You just have to do what you have to do. Find a life, find new friends, get it together. You need to see what you did or didn't do in your failed relationship and work on being a better person and a better mate next time around. Good luck to you. It's hard where you are but try to lighten up on your friends a little bit. You can not expect them to share your perspective.
Author T L Posted June 26, 2008 Author Posted June 26, 2008 vintagecat thanks for your input, You make a valid point about continually dragging the matter up around friends and moping, we dont actually see each other that often as they have young families, and I think I have been pretty upbeat in their company when I do see them. In general I am about 90% there. At the moment the X is only seeing them in the context of girls nights out and as far as I know I have been to all of the couples events. I know they are free to make their choice and to be honest they probably could not even comprehend all the baggage that comes with being cheated on, Im sure they just see it as a relationship that did not work. As for looking at my role in the relationship, that is something I have done through IC (I went weekly for three months), although none of us are perfect and we do not receive any relationship training, only by experience in the field, I feel that I did the best I could, the only regret I have is not ending the relationship earlier and sparing us both wasted years. My X told me that she did not know why she lost her attraction to me and that I never made her unhappy, the women in the particular group of friends have told me that they believe my X will continue to cheat in her future relationships and after we split I found out the X had done this in a previous relationship so I think its more of a case that my X and I made a bad choice in being together. This is only one group of my friends, I have other groups of 'couple friends' where the girls wanted to knock the X's lights out and the guys wouldnt p**s on her if she was on fire, so there are two perspectives. I think the reason why it got to me so much is that I have been doing really well recently, am ready to start dating and have been having a good time, its been eight months and I have had nothing at all to do with the X. I hoped she had gone away quietly, but thats not the case, I suppose that would have been too much to ask for .
vintagecat Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 This is only one group of my friends, I have other groups of 'couple friends' where the girls wanted to knock the X's lights out and the guys wouldnt p**s on her if she was on fire, so there are two perspectives. I think the reason why it got to me so much is that I have been doing really well recently, am ready to start dating and have been having a good time, its been eight months and I have had nothing at all to do with the X. I hoped she had gone away quietly, but thats not the case, I suppose that would have been too much to ask for . Then it sounds like you dodged a bullet and have an abundance of riches. Concentrate on what is working and what makes you happy. Forget about the injustices that you might suffer at the hands of the other set of friends. It's not worth worrying about. Really. From the tone of the first and second post it sounded like you were left bereft of all comfort and support. Not to minimize, but there's nothing that you can do about people that want to associate with a known shallow and selfish person. You have lost some respect for them. That's natural. And yes, unless you move away, it is too much to hope for to not run into your ex in public or social contexts. Just choose your position as far as your public conduct and "face" and stick with it no matter how she behaves. FWIW, karma struck later when I fell head over heels in love with a serial cheater (unknown to me till much later) and it was extremely difficult to deal with the blow to my confidence and sense of justice. Eventually I decided that it was more about him than me and moved on. It sounds very similar to your path. Best of luck to you.
AnLandy Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Your post really hit home to me on both sides. I have lost friends in the past due to a break up, and I have recently had to choose sides when two of my friends announced their separation. If you feel that keeping in touch with friends who still socialize with your ex creates a connection to her, then I can understand your discomfort at the situation. Just try to be sympathetic and keep a few things in mind: 1) Your male friends really don't have the power to control their wives' and girlfriends' behavior. If their partners want to go out for "girls' night" with your ex, then it is not these guys' responsibility to tell them that they can't. What are they going to do, "forebid" their partners from socializing with her? Just try to be sympathetic and do not create tension in your friends' relationships because you are not happy with these womens' behavior. 2) When you socialize with these mutual friends, do not aske questions about your ex, how she is doing, whether she is still with the man she cheated with, etc... I broke contact with both of my recently-separated friends because they were each constantly asking me questions about the other. I became a gossip go between, and it sucked. Putting me in the middle was not fair, especially since both of them have done little else besides trash each other for the past six months. EVERY conversation was about the ex and what a horrible person he/she is. 3) Do not put your friends in the situation of having to choose between you and your ex. This happened in my situation, and, ultimately, I chose not to choose either of them. 4) The issue of who knew who first is kind of irrelevent. I knew the husband first, and have been friends with him for over five years. He introduced me to the woman who would eventually become his wife three years ago. Although I have had a longer relatioship with the husband, my relationship with his wife was a lot more intimate, and we saw each other much more frequently. Both parties engaged in some behavior that was not exactly honest before the marriage broke up. I can't really assign guilt. Things happen in marriages that no one, except the two people in the relationship, can really understand. 5) I was in a situation similar to yours about seven years ago. The man I was with cheated on me (with a friend of mine, but that's a different story), and our circle of mutual friends and co-workers kind of picked sides. I was confused about why people would continue to be his friend after what he did. Over the years, I have had some honest conversations with some of these individuals and found out that their motives weren't necessarily about loyalty. A few people were aware that he was cheating, and they just assumed that I knew this. They were affraid to aproach me out of fear and guilt. Another woman had been involved with a married man for years, and she didn't feel that she was in a place to judge my ex's behavior because she had done the same thing. People's motives can be complicated. 6) Try to keep in mind that your friends did not create the current situation. They are sort of collatoral participants in the divorce. This situation isn't easy for them, either. After all the drama of my broken relationship had settled, I relocated and started a new career. I am still in regular contact with three people from our former circle of friends, and I count them as my closest friends to this day. Several of the people who "chose" my ex have since broken contact with him because he burned them, either personally or professionally, and they just couldn't trust him anymore. I have not reengaged in friendships with these people, but we can at least be comfortable in each other's presence now when we run into each other at professional functions.
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