ianandris Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 So, I've had some extraordinarily profound realizations the nature of my last relationship that have helped me in a big way. The other day I it dawned on me that, just like she wasn't in love with me, but was in love with the way I made her feel, I was never in love with her, but the fact that I felt I was IN love. She didn't intend for it to happen, but I was a rebound from her ex. By the same token, she was a rebound from years of nothing for me. She needed to feel loved and appreciated, I needed companionship, fair play. She chose to end it before I was ready to end it, but the fact that I'm having this realization at all means that I would have gotten here at some point anyway relationship or not. In a sense, I'm glad she ended it when she did. I probably would have married her without realizing that I wasn't in love with her, and, like she predicted, we would have been dissatisfied for the rest of our lives (faithful, but dissatisfied). Here's the catch: Last night I had a dream where we were at a party and she slept with another guy. Didn't actually happen, so nothing to be particularly concerned about, but it was the first dream in recent memory that sincerely disturbed me. I didn't wake up pissed or devastated, but.. troubled. It was that familiar pit in my stomach letting me know that I'm still not completely over her. Even though I know I wasn't in love with her, I did choose to love her, and I was head over heels about our relationship. I guess, even though we've split, I still feel a sense of ownership. The question, then, is how do I work through the consequences of that choice? How do I let go of the feeling of ownership? She's marked territory, in a sense. How do I unmark that territory?
LikeCharlotte Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 How long were you two together and when did you break up? My ex ex had feelings like that for awhile. I'm not sure what helped him. I can ask.
Author ianandris Posted June 24, 2008 Author Posted June 24, 2008 We were together for 2 months, but it was an intense 2 months. We were planning marriage, living arrangements post marriage, looking at rings, etc. Pretty intense stuff. She broke it off a bit over 2 weeks ago now.
kyta Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 God i wish mine was only 2 months, this should be easy for you, if you was planing marriage after so short a time, then count your ;lucky stars its over, or you both would of had yrs of unhappiness.] It could be worse you could of had 7yrs with her like me and then, i found her in bed with some guy a cpl day after it ended, and if you feel like this now after 2 months, how owuld you feel after 7 yrs?????
LikeCharlotte Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 We were together for 2 months, but it was an intense 2 months. We were planning marriage, living arrangements post marriage, looking at rings, etc. Pretty intense stuff. She broke it off a bit over 2 weeks ago now. That sounds very fast but I know how you are feeling. At first you are going to have dreams and disturbing ones at times but it will pass. It takes a bit of honesty and paint to accept that she isn't yours anymore but it will happen.
Author ianandris Posted June 24, 2008 Author Posted June 24, 2008 Oh, I know. I got off easy. I can't imagine how hard it would be to face down years like that. Even so, it was my first experience with love...
sunshinegirl Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 So, I've had some extraordinarily profound realizations the nature of my last relationship that have helped me in a big way. The other day I it dawned on me that, just like she wasn't in love with me, but was in love with the way I made her feel, I was never in love with her, but the fact that I felt I was IN love. She didn't intend for it to happen, but I was a rebound from her ex. By the same token, she was a rebound from years of nothing for me. She needed to feel loved and appreciated, I needed companionship, fair play. She chose to end it before I was ready to end it, but the fact that I'm having this realization at all means that I would have gotten here at some point anyway relationship or not. In a sense, I'm glad she ended it when she did. I probably would have married her without realizing that I wasn't in love with her, and, like she predicted, we would have been dissatisfied for the rest of our lives (faithful, but dissatisfied). I really appreciate these insights! Applicable to me, I think. I have spent a long time trying to come to terms with the fact that...well...I wasn't really that happy with my ex. He dumped me, cruelly, by cheating on me, and the pain of that ending is what has me so knotted up. But like you, it's entirely possible that I miss the companionship more than I miss him; that I miss the comfort and routine and not what he brought to the relationship (which was actually not very much!). I think these are the kinds of things to hang your hat on, ianandris. With more time hopefully you'll have even greater clarity that you weren't meant for each other. Best wishes.
Author ianandris Posted June 24, 2008 Author Posted June 24, 2008 I think that's probably true for a lot of people. People get easily twisted into believing they're in love with someone, when they're simply caught up in being in love or when they're finding some other need filled by the presence of another person in their lives. While I don't doubt that many legitimately fall in love and stay in love, it seems that it's more the exception than the rule, thus the 50 percent divorce rate. People expect that feeling of affection and excitement to be the foundation of the relationship, but feelings are fickle and they change, and they're often misdirected. We don't always understand what or why we're feeling when we feel it. Love and commitment are so much more than feelings. The heart is deceitful, self interested. Satisfying it every time it pines for something else is a recipe for lots of pain. Hell, emotions are a physical phenomenon, anyway. The limbic system in your brain releases chemicals that effect feelings. Is it wise to trust a chemical reaction, influenced by diet, exericse, infirmity, etc, to lead you to a point of happiness and satisfaction? I'm not trying to minimize emotions, they're real and they're tender and they serve a valuable purpose in selecting a mate and responding to the facts of life. It would be foolish to ignore them outright, but reasoning through them is essential. Easier to do when you're not caught up in them. That said, one thing I've learned from this experience is not to sacrifice any part of what I'm looking for in a woman. I was so excited (read: emotionally stimulated, a limbic response) about having the need for companionship filled, excited by the prospect of laying to rest the restless part of my life, the part that pines for companionship and love, that I rationalized around the imperfections that in other circumstances would have taken her right off my radar. (reason should rule emotion, not the other way around) I was thinking about my feelings of protectiveness, ownership for this woman I'm not in love with, and from a biological point of view, it makes all the sense in the world. Men feel an urgency to pass on their seed to insure the survival of their genetic line, which is why it seems that men in general are more prone to promiscuity, multiple partners, possessiveness. To watch another man be with a woman who you've claimed as your own (subconsciously, mind you. I'm not that boorish, promise) is akin to watching him walk into your house uninvited and take your 52 inch plasma screen from your wall right under your nose. Of course, this is exacerbated by the fact that this plasma screen also happens to have a strong, indpendent will and has promised that it's not going anywhere, and you're the only one who'll ever play dvds and video games on it. (I know I run the risk of coming across as insensitive and cheauvanist, but please understand I don't intend any negative characterization of women. I'm simply trying to explain an impulse that I don't entirely understand, in an attempt to understand myself better. When she told me she didn't love me, I asked if she would be upset if she saw me with someone else. She said not at all. I'm not in love with this girl, I never was, why would be upset?)
sunshinegirl Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 That said, one thing I've learned from this experience is not to sacrifice any part of what I'm looking for in a woman. I was so excited (read: emotionally stimulated, a limbic response) about having the need for companionship filled, excited by the prospect of laying to rest the restless part of my life, the part that pines for companionship and love, that I rationalized around the imperfections that in other circumstances would have taken her right off my radar. (reason should rule emotion, not the other way around) Would you be willing to elaborate on some of the specifics? I *definitely* did this (rationalized imperfections). The red flags were waving in my face from the first moment he expressed romantic interest in me... but I proceeded anyway.
Author ianandris Posted June 24, 2008 Author Posted June 24, 2008 Sure, I don't mind elaborating at all. Biggest red flag? She was 2 weeks into a divorce. She should NOT have been trying to meet guys at that stage of her divorce. That alone should have been enough for me, as it shows a terrible lack of judgment, but at the time I was more interested in, excuse the crude colloquialism, getting some action than being smart about it. She showed interest, I though, "Hell, why not?" and it snowballed from there. We hung out that night, fooled around (no sex. I'm saving myself until marriage), did it again the next night, and the next, and on the third night we started to develop interest in each other beyond physicality. Which is actually red flag number 2. I'm not interested in being with a girl who's so interested in physicality that she gives it up cheaply. She was 2 weeks into the divorce, but she'd already slept with someone else before we hooked up (a 35 year old man, to boot. She's only 21. Not always a big deal, but it really, really bothered me for some reason.). Plus, she'd had a pretty storied sexual history (7 partners, she said, including another dalliance with a *different* 35 year old man, this one before her marriage. Troubling considering she got married at 18... Plus, I've never had sex, and I really didn't like the idea of being number 8.). Physicality creates a bond of its own that can be blinding. If she's willing to forge that bond and break it with some many different men just to get off, it's reflective of a self interested, impulsive character that I don't want to be attached to for the rest of my life. The woman I want to be with will not be the type to give herself away cheaply. She's clearly a troubled girl, but, again, she showed interest, and that was enough for me at the time. Red flag number 3, and this one was instantaneous and, in light of what I just talked about, probably a bit surprising, was that I wasn't as physically attracted to her as I would have liked to be to my future wife. She was a cute girl, but not my ideal. Red flag 4; she had a difficult time having her aesthetic preferences critiqued. Big problem for me because I used to go to an art school, and I've got a real interest in aesthetics in general. I like tasteful clothing, good music, good film, etc, and I like to talk about it. We went shoe shopping one day, and she couldn't handle it. She would show shoes to me and I'd honestly tell her what I felt, if I liked or not and why. I'd show shoes to her, she wouldn't like them or she would, whatever. I had a really good time doing it (I'm one of those rare guys who likes shopping from time to time), but she went in the store happy, came out dour and sullen. Instead of taking my opinion for what it's worth, she began to take it personally. She knew it wasn't personal on my part, but, honestly, if we can't discourse openly about something as trivial as shoes, if we can't disagree about whether or not something looks nice without her taking it personally, how would we be able to handle adjusting to each other when it comes to weightier matters? The ability to have your preferences called into question is a hallmark of maturity, and her inability to handle a perfectly good natured session of shoe shopping was reflective immaturity and insecurity. Red flag 5; she wasn't as affectionate as I would like my wife to be. I'm a hopeless romantic, love random kisses, notes, etc. Just little things that let to let her know I'm thinking about her if she's absent or preoccupied. I do it because I like it mysef. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, right? I had to ask her on more than one occaision to be more affectionate with me. She told me, "Baby, you shouldn't have to ask for that!" not much of an answer, really, but true. The woman I marry won't need to be asked. She'll want to lean over and kiss me on the cheek while we're driving simply because she wants to. My ex didn't do that. Red flag. Red flag 6; I'm in the military (going to school, doing the ROTC bit, in the Guard, too, planning on going career), and early on she expressed that she would have a terrifically hard time if I were to be depolyed. Understandable, deployment isn't easy on anybody, but, given how quickly she jumped from partner to partner during the 2 weeks into her divorce, I don't know that I would be able to trust her to stay faithful during the time I'm gone. The night before her wedding, she made out with someone other than her husband (not cheating in the traditional sense, but, still...). Her inability to handle distance made me nervous. Lastly, and most importantly, she wasn't a very spiritual girl when I met her. I'm a very spiritual individual. I need my significant other to be on the same page when it comes to that kind of stuff (at least when we start out our lives together. Can't account for the future...). Her experience with me helped her become more spiritual, and she did challenge me to be better, but I need the girl I'm with to be better than I am. All of these things, I figured, weren't a big deal. I figured, we're all in different places in our life, right? Different experiences, so I can't possibly expect my mate to be ideal in every way. And there is some truth in that, but when it comes down to it, like I mentioned, love is a choice. Once the infatuation fades, you're left with the consequences of your choice. But, like I said, I was way more interested in the fact that she was interested in me. I'm 25, and she was my third relationship. First one that wasn't an LDR. Girls don't come around often for me, for a host of reasons (main one being that I've spent the last few years being unavailable either in training with the military, or on a 2 year mission for my church during which you aren't permitted to date at all, or simply being more interested in drugs and alcohol than women during my high school years. It has nothing to do with my desirability as a mate. I'm attractive, considerate, intelligent, confident, and capable.), so I was reticent to let any opportunity pass by, regardless of red flags. I let my percieved need get the better of me, and that was a mistake. But, I've become much, much wiser as a result. Here's hopingI'll find someone new soon, though...
kizik Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Biggest red flag? She was 2 weeks into a divorce. She should NOT have been trying to meet guys at that stage of her divorce. That alone should have been enough for me, as it shows a terrible lack of judgment, but at the time I was more interested in, excuse the crude colloquialism, getting some action than being smart about it. My ex had recently broken up with her BF. Thus, I should not be surprised NOW if she is with / has f*cked somebody new. However, I take satisfaction in knowing that I AM THE GREATEST MAN ALIVE! and that whatever, go ahead and get with some dweeb. Ha... Red flag 4; she had a difficult time having her aesthetic preferences critiqued. Big problem for me because I used to go to an art school, and I've got a real interest in aesthetics in general. I like tasteful clothing, good music, good film, etc, and I like to talk about it. We went shoe shopping one day, and she couldn't handle it. She would show shoes to me and I'd honestly tell her what I felt, if I liked or not and why. I'd show shoes to her, she wouldn't like them or she would, whatever. I had a really good time doing it (I'm one of those rare guys who likes shopping from time to time), but she went in the store happy, came out dour and sullen. Instead of taking my opinion for what it's worth, she began to take it personally. She got a bad haircut - chopped most of it off - and when I didn't jump for joy, she took her displeasure with her hair out on ME, calling me superficial and saying I made her feel unattractive. In reality, she was projecting and didn't REALLY wanna hear what I thought. Bitch. Red flag 5; she wasn't as affectionate as I would like my wife to be. I'm a hopeless romantic, love random kisses, notes, etc. Just little things that let to let her know I'm thinking about her if she's absent or preoccupied. I do it because I like it mysef. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, right? I had to ask her on more than one occaision to be more affectionate with me. Every time I had to ask for "intimacy," it made me feel like the biggest f*cking puss on the planet. F*ck her for putting me in that position. From now on, if I'm not getting what I want, you get ONE chance to fix it, or I'm done.
Author ianandris Posted June 25, 2008 Author Posted June 25, 2008 Every time I had to ask for "intimacy," it made me feel like the biggest f*cking puss on the planet. F*ck her for putting me in that position. From now on, if I'm not getting what I want, you get ONE chance to fix it, or I'm done. Amen, bro. I know that feeling. Very likely part of the reason she made me feel so insecure around her. One chance is reasonable. If they aren't willing to accommodate us after one heads up, after being made aware of the issue, they clearly don't have our welfare at the forefront of their minds.
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