LikeCharlotte Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 You can't win this one, can't make someone love you, and if they came back... well hell.... could you even trust them again?No, thats why I didn't waste my time wishing he would. That's useless and after a very short time (a day - maybe) I realized that he couldn't ever repair the hurt of abandonment anyway. We must demand more for ourselves! I don't care how common it is for people to split up, or what the divorce rate is. That does not make it acceptable for me! I want someone who wants me unconditionally because I will give myself totally and honestly to them. If they don't see value in me I want someone who WILL!I second that notion. I'm not stopping until I get it. Finding that type of love is a battle I am proud to fight tooth and nail!
ate_the_paint Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Love this thread. I'm going to keep watching it. LikeCharlotte is hilarious and spot on!
Author kizik Posted June 24, 2008 Author Posted June 24, 2008 Just emailed my EX-ex. From 5 years ago. Oh, it would be nice if she and I could get together and just have meaningless sex. Bad idea? (Assuming she's down for it... she's going through a separation / divorce.)
sunshinegirl Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Just emailed my EX-ex. From 5 years ago. Oh, it would be nice if she and I could get together and just have meaningless sex. You're kidding... right?
Author kizik Posted June 24, 2008 Author Posted June 24, 2008 No, I'm not. And don't worry, I didn't ask her if she was down to f*ck. But it's fun to think about. SHOULD I be kidding? I need physical contact with a female, sun!
v33 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 SHOULD I be kidding? I need physical contact with a female, sun! I hear ya, brother. If this was a recent ex I would advise against it, but if you and the ex-ex end up sharing a brief and mutually satisfying connection I don't see the harm. One thing I know now is that is you put 1/10 the energy and effort into finding a new partner that you put into being polarized on your ex you will find much success!
replicator Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 When Kizik says look to the dumper, I'm sure he means that we should be as indifferent as they are. We should reject them as they rejected us. Don't give them the power to make us feel like we're 'dumped'.. Dump them back. Kick them to the curb. It does us no good to want or care for someone who isn't willing to value you for who you are, and what you can be. I'm at a stage now where I think my brain has started to function somewhat normally, so I can think straight. I'm just waiting for my heart to completely flush out the pain. It is more physical now, and reminds me of the time I quit smoking.
sailing Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Hmm, I didn't interpret the original post as a recommendation to copy dysfunctional behaviour either, but I can see how use of the term role model can be at worst a slap in the face and at best an opportunity for some dark humour. I read somewhere that a relationship should be seen as a temple with two pillars; if one them is removed, you have no choice but to let it collapse completely. My regrets are mainly to do with the time before the collapse. I would have appreciated if my ex had actually let me in on his decision, explained the reasons he doubted the relationship, showed some willingness to overcome these - or at least had had the decency to not walk straight into another relationship. That's assuming he had the emotional awareness and intellectual wherewithal but I doubt that - and it's his problem. The quicker I remove myself from that the better. I should concentrate on other stuff such as: why was I willing to be the sole supporting pillar propping the whole thing up at my expense? How likely is it to happen again? It helps me sometimes to assume a psychoanalytical or even fatalistic perspective: there was a subconscious attraction, I was a playing out a script and unfortunately it had to be painful to make me aware. I fell in love with this guy and entered the relationship as an adult but, somewhere along the line, fears and self-defeating patterns from childhood crept in - most probably on both sides. For me it was fear of abandonment, for him fear of engulfment, and he had as little control over his reaction as I had over mine. If I blame the human condition, I can grieve and be angry and at the same time be compassionate. If I try to view my ex as an autonomous adult, despite the hurt he caused and I still feel, it might help me to separate my childhood conflicts from my adult relationships in the future.
LikeCharlotte Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Hmm, I didn't interpret the original post as a recommendation to copy dysfunctional behaviour either, but I can see how use of the term role model can be at worst a slap in the face and at best an opportunity for some dark humour. I read somewhere that a relationship should be seen as a temple with two pillars; if one them is removed, you have no choice but to let it collapse completely. My regrets are mainly to do with the time before the collapse. I would have appreciated if my ex had actually let me in on his decision, explained the reasons he doubted the relationship, showed some willingness to overcome these - or at least had had the decency to not walk straight into another relationship. That's assuming he had the emotional awareness and intellectual wherewithal but I doubt that - and it's his problem. The quicker I remove myself from that the better. I should concentrate on other stuff such as: why was I willing to be the sole supporting pillar propping the whole thing up at my expense? How likely is it to happen again? It helps me sometimes to assume a psychoanalytical or even fatalistic perspective: there was a subconscious attraction, I was a playing out a script and unfortunately it had to be painful to make me aware. I fell in love with this guy and entered the relationship as an adult but, somewhere along the line, fears and self-defeating patterns from childhood crept in - most probably on both sides. For me it was fear of abandonment, for him fear of engulfment, and he had as little control over his reaction as I had over mine. If I blame the human condition, I can grieve and be angry and at the same time be compassionate. If I try to view my ex as an autonomous adult, despite the hurt he caused and I still feel, it might help me to separate my childhood conflicts from my adult relationships in the future.This is a great post sailing. I like the way you think. I did much the same thing not long ago.
sunshinegirl Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 My regrets are mainly to do with the time before the collapse. I would have appreciated if my ex had actually let me in on his decision, explained the reasons he doubted the relationship, showed some willingness to overcome these - or at least had had the decency to not walk straight into another relationship. That's assuming he had the emotional awareness and intellectual wherewithal but I doubt that - and it's his problem. Liked your whole post, Sailing. I also regret that my ex never gave us a chance to talk things out, to see if there was a way forward instead of a sudden announcement that he was done. Of course, that's his pattern: he bottles everything up until he reaches a boiling point, and then he runs away without discussion...and mine walked - no, ran - straight into another relationship, no stopping, no reflecting, no getting his head screwed on straight even though he's clearly still in trauma mode after his divorce. I read an interesting poem (attributed to Cavafy) last night: For some people there's a day when they have to come out with the great Yes or the great No. It's clear at once who has the Yes ready in him; and, saying it, he goes on to find honor, strong in his conviction. He who refuses never repents. Asked again, he'd still say no. Yet that no--the right answer-- defeats him the whole of his life.
critter909 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 My regrets are mainly to do with the time before the collapse. I would have appreciated if my ex had actually let me in on his decision, explained the reasons he doubted the relationship, showed some willingness to overcome these - or at least had had the decency to not walk straight into another relationship. That's assuming he had the emotional awareness and intellectual wherewithal but I doubt that - and it's his problem. Well said. I think many relationships could be saved if people were willing to put in the effort. In my case there were obvious, fixable problems that caused the break up. He was just unwilling to work on it and didn't even really discuss it until he had already moved his stuff out. In my opinion, which I expressed to him also, we should have done the discussing first, no? Talk first, decide you can't work things out, move out. Not move out, talk, decide you can't work things out. It seems like a copout. From talking to other people I see this as a pattern, look at the divorce rates etc., people are unwilling to do what it takes to make a relationship work, they just walk away.
foxh1234 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 The dumper has much more guilt. Maybe not right away but I think eventually it hits them. That's why we beg and cry right away but they come back weeks or months later. The misery they created comes back to bite them in the ass I really hope this is true in my ex's case.:laugh:
johnnienaked Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 We're on this site b/c we're trying to figure out how to deal with the pain. It took us by surprise and we were not emotionally prepared for it. THEY are off somewhere, happier without us, living their lives in a productive, optimistic manner. From what I know of my ex, is she is probably still living her life precariously on the edge. And once she settles down and has a moment alone, she will regret everything she has done from point A to point B just like she has 10 times in the past (I was there when she did). Are they with someone else? Maybe. Does it mean they're "soul-less," "co-dependent" and are "filling the void in themselves with others"? Maybe. I don't know. What I DO know is that to help ourselves, we should be looking to the DUMPER as a role model for how to act, post-breakup. I can almost guarantee you my ex is fine. She's finally free, without the pressure of having to worry about me. While I agree that we shouldn't allow the breakup to ruin our lives, we have to realize that the two perspectives are COMPLETELY different. The 'dumper' isn't somehow being more mature about all this. He/she has all the control!!!! Someone in total control is like a duck in water.Someone who does the breaking up has absolutely nothing to worry about. Their confidence, self-esteem, and freedom wasn't just shattered. Also, the dumper could be a total idiot scumbag loser and feel good about what they did, but still be an idiot. The fact is, a lot of people who dump others feel as though they can do better. I would say that is 90% of the reason. They are usually selfish/inconsiderate/arrogant/committment phobic/immature people who don't realize how good they have it...and 90% of the time they come back to the stable person that loved them unconditionally when they realize love isn't about doing better, but surrendering, committment, and intimacy. We talk so much on this site about how "they did us wrong." I've said it myself, many a time. Well, no they didn't. They did what they felt they had to do. If we stay too much in our self-pitying perspective, we don't learn anything. So, understand that your ex is a free individual whose choice to exclude you from their life, is a choice like any other that should be respected. Baloney. THEY DID DO US WRONG. WE GAVE THEM OUR TRUST, LOVE, APPRECIATION, HONESTY, AND HEARTS AND THEY STOMPED ALL OVER THEM. THEY CAN GO TO HELL. Oh, and we don't have to respect ****. Any guy/girl who dumps you is an idiot. Period. There's no right and wrong here, no winners or losers. Just a bunch of people who are doing what's best for themselves. As the Dumped, we need to adopt the mindset that the break-up was best for us, too. In the sense that being with someone who doesn't want you is worse than being alone, I totally agree. But there is a winner and there is a loser and you have to realize that the one who broke up with you is the loser. And I guarantee they will come crawling back when they realize what they have lost. It's your responsibility to ensure they never get a second chance.
Author kizik Posted June 25, 2008 Author Posted June 25, 2008 I guarantee they will come crawling back when they realize what they have lost. It's your responsibility to ensure they never get a second chance. My thread was not too thought-out and probably offended people; you being one of them. I like your counterpoints and agree with most of them. However, don't you dare fill my head with a bunch of nonsense about how you can guarantee that she'll come back once she realizes what she's lost. At this point, this is the thing I desire most, and most likely it will never happen. You saying that puts me in a thought pattern that is detrimental to my recovery. It is HOPE for me right now, b/c I know I couldn't reject her... yet. I have an ex-ex who contacted me after 5 years and said that she "wasted my love." 5 years. So yeah, my recent ex might realize the err of her ways.. but if it ever does happen, it could be as long as 5 years.
LikeCharlotte Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I have an ex-ex who contacted me after 5 years and said that she "wasted my love." 5 years. So yeah, my recent ex might realize the err of her ways.. but if it ever does happen, it could be as long as 5 years.I've never had a significant ex that didn't do this eventually but hell will freeze over before the recent ex is ever even pleasant to me. The definition of stubborn has his picture next to it. He is proud to be nicknamed after 'an obstacle'. ugh. I don't want that in any way because I think I'd drop dead instantly from surprise and shock. Reality would collapse, we would all be doomed!
Author kizik Posted June 25, 2008 Author Posted June 25, 2008 Sorry he's such a prck, LC. That wholw episode in which he ignored you at the bar sounded really painful. Just know that he's a dumbas* who can't even be civil and is therefore unworthy of your sexy intelligence. You remember how I sent my ex an email, saying congrats on finishing her schoolyear? And I got this perky response? I SO regret sending that. Must have boosted her ego to high heaven. I had a show tonight. I hope she knows this by looking at my MySpace. I hope she wonders how it went. I hope she gives one good goddamn f*ck.
LikeCharlotte Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Sorry he's such a prck, LC. That wholw episode in which he ignored you at the bar sounded really painful. Just know that he's a dumbas* who can't even be civil and is therefore unworthy of your sexy intelligence.Thank you. It just kind of sucks that I fell in love with a pr*ck. I feel pretty stupid for sleeping with him and saying all those things. It's a creepy feeling to know that I never really knew him. I tell myself that he is unworthy and surprisingly it works. I listen to Dresden Dolls 'Truce' when I start to forget. It ends with "I can say without shame that you've lost. Do you know what you've lost?" and she is just screaming her heart out. I love it! You remember how I sent my ex an email, saying congrats on finishing her schoolyear? And I got this perky response? I SO regret sending that. Must have boosted her ego to high heaven. Maybe not... my ex never congratulated me.. but he apologized for it when I asked why in a later brief conversation. He never told me WHY, but I don't care why really. That really matters to me. I don't feel any stronger because I know he thought about it now. I just feel like maybe I was a real person to him and not just a wet hole... emphasis on maybe. I had a show tonight. I hope she knows this by looking at my MySpace. I hope she wonders how it went. I hope she gives one good goddamn f*ck.It's possible. I look at my first loves music and shows all the time. I worry about him from time to time. I hope he is ok.
johnnienaked Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 My thread was not too thought-out and probably offended people; you being one of them. I like your counterpoints and agree with most of them. However, don't you dare fill my head with a bunch of nonsense about how you can guarantee that she'll come back once she realizes what she's lost. At this point, this is the thing I desire most, and most likely it will never happen. You saying that puts me in a thought pattern that is detrimental to my recovery. It is HOPE for me right now, b/c I know I couldn't reject her... yet. I have an ex-ex who contacted me after 5 years and said that she "wasted my love." 5 years. So yeah, my recent ex might realize the err of her ways.. but if it ever does happen, it could be as long as 5 years. Im sorry for getting youor hopes up, if thats what I did. I can't GUARANTEE she will come back, but I can guarantee that if she does, no matter what, she will reject you again. the reason is not you, its because she is ****ed in the head. Don't make the same mistake I did. i was over it, I got over her annd realized what a ****ty girlfriend she was and then she came crawling back in and was so sweet and yap yap yap i caved. Needless to say, Im twice as bad as I was initially now, because she did it AGAIN. So screw her. She doesn't deserve you and by ignoring her completely and working relentlessly on yourself you force her to know it. One thing I totally got from your post is this. There will be a time in my life where I am at where she is at now, when I know I can do better. And that will be the sweetest revenge. To know that she knows she made a huge mistake, and that she gave up everything she needed and wanted in a man, and to be able to walk by and not even blink about it. Good luck man.
PhoenixFromTheFlames Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Maybe not... my ex never congratulated me.. but he apologized for it when I asked why in a later brief conversation. He never told me WHY, but I don't care why really. That really matters to me. I don't feel any stronger because I know he thought about it now. I just feel like maybe I was a real person to him and not just a wet hole... emphasis on maybe. I agree with this. The only thing about this forum is there is alot of talk about our exes being these horrible people. If they contact us at all we're told it's because they are checking we are still on a string and using us for an ego boost, or they are just exercising their power over us and enjoying it. I don't think this is true in most cases. The not represented 'classic dumpers' are being tarred with the same brush as the cheaters and liars. Yes, they may not be in the same state we are, but it doesn't mean that they are enjoying our misery. They probably do feel guilty for hurting us, but thay can't help how the feel (or don't) anymore than we can. At one point we meant alot to our dumpers, at one point we shared values and respect. The love may die, but the other persons personality doesn't have to warp into this hurtful evil ex who enjoys making you feel bad and feeds off your misery. My personality hasn't changed as fundamentally as this, why would theirs? I have contacted exes in the past, and responded to contact from exes, and I would hate to think they thought I was just massaging my ego. One ex in particular meant alot to me. I'm happy to hear from him, I'm glad he's happy.
sunshinegirl Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 In the sense that being with someone who doesn't want you is worse than being alone, I totally agree. But there is a winner and there is a loser and you have to realize that the one who broke up with you is the loser. And I guarantee they will come crawling back when they realize what they have lost. It's your responsibility to ensure they never get a second chance. I loved the strength of this post. I'm pondering the crawling back part: yes, my ex did come back once. We broke up Memorial Day last year; in July he was back and we got back together. And yes, he broke my heart again last month, in the cruellest way by cheating. I continue to hope that things go to hell with the office hooch he left me for and that one day he really is sorry, genuinely remorseful, for having hurt me: after all, there is absolutely nothing I did to deserve what he did. I was an awesome girlfriend and a "keeper" according to him. But at some level I think he probably will never be able to face me, to look me in the eye. I increasingly think he knows deep down that he was a HUGE ****head and he would probably prefer to avoid all reminders of me. I have a hard time imagining him voluntarily seeking me out to apologize. Which is sad, because it also means that he is a coward on top of being a cheater. So...I will probably never get the satisfaction of knowing he knows what he lost in me.
Nevermind Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I hear you, sunshine. Same for me, or even worse: he is changing the past to feel good about himself. Basically the question you have to ask yourself is: why would you need him to feel bad about losing you? You know he lost something great, and I hope you would never go back to him...so what good will it do you to know he is feeling sorry? He won't be happy, you know I believe that characters such as him are not able to feel true happiness or love with anybody. You will. There is your victory.
sunshinegirl Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I hear you, sunshine. Same for me, or even worse: he is changing the past to feel good about himself. Basically the question you have to ask yourself is: why would you need him to feel bad about losing you? You know he lost something great, and I hope you would never go back to him...so what good will it do you to know he is feeling sorry? He won't be happy, you know I believe that characters such as him are not able to feel true happiness or love with anybody. You will. There is your victory. I'm sure it's some ego need I have. I'm afraid that some part of me might always doubt that he lost something great ("maybe I'm just making this up so I don't have to face harsh reality that I was deficient in some way") unless he comes back and acknowledges that he did me wrong. NM, how did you get so strong and confident that guys like our exes really won't find true happiness? How do I channel that for myself? Didn't we have breakups around the same time? What made things "click" for you??
sailing Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 (Apologies for threadjacking, but I wanted to reply and can't PM) I also regret that my ex never gave us a chance to talk things out, to see if there was a way forward instead of a sudden announcement that he was done. Of course, that's his pattern: he bottles everything up until he reaches a boiling point sunshinegirl, critter909, Thank you for your comments. Even though at the time I thought "I can't believe he's doing this to me" I must admit a small part of me wasn't too surprised. It has made me realise that I really can't afford to ignore such little niggles in the future. I like the way you think. I did much the same thing not long ago. Thank you LikeCharlotte. Do you mean to say that the ex-encounter made you change your view? I dread contact more than anything at the moment. I worry about questioning my coping and having my body language betray everything.
orangehose Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I'm sure it's some ego need I have. I'm afraid that some part of me might always doubt that he lost something great ("maybe I'm just making this up so I don't have to face harsh reality that I was deficient in some way") unless he comes back and acknowledges that he did me wrong. I have this need too, but of course we have to remind ourselves that some people just don't have the equipment to appreciate us fully. Doesn't mean we're not fantastic. If it's any comfort, though, your ex does honestly sound pretty messed up, and his issues are going to recur in future relationships. At some point it will catch up to him.
sunshinegirl Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 If it's any comfort, though, your ex does honestly sound pretty messed up, and his issues are going to recur in future relationships. At some point it will catch up to him. Thanks. It helped to hear this - I copied it into my journal to help me re-center myself. I'm having a bad day.
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