White Flower Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 WF, how you doing? He is a real piece of work. He can't prove he loves her or anyone else, cause he only loves himself and what he wants is all that counts. The W has taken control of her life, now it is time for the op to do the same and kick his @$$ with his head up it, out the door. Thanks, Bent, I'm OK and hanging in there. Haven't posted in a while due to the crazy D proceedings. Hope your summer is going well.
whichwayisup Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I have seen men cheat only to realize they do love the OW and leave for them; marry them. In some cases it does happen, but usually those who leave their spouses for the OW/OM don't STAY in the affair for 2+ years and make promises. They end their marriages and do what is necessary, they don't live a lie and continue to sneak off to the OW/OM while still married. On LS, maybe there's about 5 OW and about 2 OM who have ended up with their MM/MW out of atleast 100 or so. The odds are anyones guess, it ALL depends on how serious MM/MW is about ending their marriage and leaving, divorcing.
SerenityX2 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 CMC ...thanks for the update. You do sound like you've had enough, and just need a little more strength to walk away, I know you "want" to believe him, and that must be hard...but look objectively at some things...see his true colors, they are pretty clear. You're right in the aspect that "if" he loved you....he would comfort, reassure etc instead of blame and that's the key....when the going is tough he "blames." Please think about how he handles conflict...this won't just go away even if you do end up with him...I'm not speculating that you'd be a BS I'm saying that life would more than likely be filled with a lot of strife just in general, seeing his pattern of running away from things, and worse, shifting blame. BIG red flags. Do yourself a huge favor and see it as a lesson learned, and move on...Nadia can really help you there. I know I keep saying that to people, but she's been there...she completely relates. Step away and define your non negiotiables and don't "settle" for less...there really are guys like that out there, life's too short for this kind of turmoil. Again, I'm sorry for my previous post, my frustration in why women allow men to almost use them as puppets shows, and I know it doesn't have to be like that. Good luck
nadiaj2727 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I have seen men cheat only to realize they do love the OW and leave for them; marry them. My father did, so I have faith in certain MM. My father did the right thing by declaring his love for her publicly and moving in with her. I agree that if MM truly loves the OW, the right thing to do is what your father did-- declare his love for her publicly and be with her... in which case she isn't the OW for very long. To leave her waiting and hoping and settling for second place and being kept a secret is not love IMO, it's just using her for his own benefit. Likewise if MM truly loves his wife, I think he will inform her of his affair, apologize, see if she wants to reconcile, and of course stop seeing OW... therefore OW wouldn't be OW for long either and BW wouldn't be BW for long. Those are the ideal circumstances where MM realizes he is so in love with OW and he wants to be with her no matter what the cost, or he realizes he loves his wife and he has made a horrible decision and he fesses up about his actions no matter what the cost. These actions put SOMEONE, presumably the person he truly loves, above his own interests, and there is a certain amount of risk and bravery involved. Everything in the middle-- continuing the affair and secrecy-- IMO is just cowardly cake-eating by someone who loves only himself and feels he is entitled to have both the marriage and the affair. I'm glad it worked out for your dad and I guess your stepmom. I realize that sometimes people fall in love while they are with someone else-- not the ideal way to start a relationship but IMO if it is real then they will do what your father did and not what *most* of the MMs (or MWs) who come here do and try to juggle both at once! It's nice to hear about someone who was brave enough to take action. To me the affair was wrong but leaving to be with his love in the open is righting the wrong just as much as stopping the affair and telling his wife would be. What bugs me is when the cheating spouse continues the secrecy and betrayal without righting the wrong to either person. I don't understand why it's so hard for most people to just be honest... and by saying that I'm including the fact that I truly don't understand how I was able to do something so secretive and hurtful in the past. But I came to realize how true the old saying is that the truth will set you free. Once I started telling the truth TO MYSELF no matter how ugly it was, I realized that I had been captive to my own self-deception. Anyway sorry to ramble, I agree with what you said.
Lookingforward Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 In some cases it does happen, but usually those who leave their spouses for the OW/OM don't STAY in the affair for 2+ years and make promises. They end their marriages and do what is necessary, they don't live a lie and continue to sneak off to the OW/OM while still married. On LS, maybe there's about 5 OW and about 2 OM who have ended up with their MM/MW out of atleast 100 or so. The odds are anyones guess, it ALL depends on how serious MM/MW is about ending their marriage and leaving, divorcing. yes, but by the same token , how many that everything worked out fine for do you think even feel the need to look for a forum such as this, let alone post ? Same as most of the Ms we read about on here have problems........ doesn't mean they're representative of all marriages, does it ?
White Flower Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I agree that if MM truly loves the OW, the right thing to do is what your father did-- declare his love for her publicly and be with her... in which case she isn't the OW for very long. To leave her waiting and hoping and settling for second place and being kept a secret is not love IMO, it's just using her for his own benefit. Likewise if MM truly loves his wife, I think he will inform her of his affair, apologize, see if she wants to reconcile, and of course stop seeing OW... therefore OW wouldn't be OW for long either and BW wouldn't be BW for long. Those are the ideal circumstances where MM realizes he is so in love with OW and he wants to be with her no matter what the cost, or he realizes he loves his wife and he has made a horrible decision and he fesses up about his actions no matter what the cost. These actions put SOMEONE, presumably the person he truly loves, above his own interests, and there is a certain amount of risk and bravery involved. Everything in the middle-- continuing the affair and secrecy-- IMO is just cowardly cake-eating by someone who loves only himself and feels he is entitled to have both the marriage and the affair. I'm glad it worked out for your dad and I guess your stepmom. I realize that sometimes people fall in love while they are with someone else-- not the ideal way to start a relationship but IMO if it is real then they will do what your father did and not what *most* of the MMs (or MWs) who come here do and try to juggle both at once! It's nice to hear about someone who was brave enough to take action. To me the affair was wrong but leaving to be with his love in the open is righting the wrong just as much as stopping the affair and telling his wife would be. What bugs me is when the cheating spouse continues the secrecy and betrayal without righting the wrong to either person. I don't understand why it's so hard for most people to just be honest... and by saying that I'm including the fact that I truly don't understand how I was able to do something so secretive and hurtful in the past. But I came to realize how true the old saying is that the truth will set you free. Once I started telling the truth TO MYSELF no matter how ugly it was, I realized that I had been captive to my own self-deception. Anyway sorry to ramble, I agree with what you said. Thanks, Nadia. The part I bolded is what I agree with you on. It hurts so much to believe a man can continue to just play the game in order to benefit himself. What goes through his mind? Even if he loves the OW, how can he justify dragging it out for so long and leave her to wonder why she just isn't valuable enough? It is my hope that each and every OW on this site see the light and demand to know their value.
LakesideDream Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Thanks, Nadia. The part I bolded is what I agree with you on. It hurts so much to believe a man can continue to just play the game in order to benefit himself. What goes through his mind? Even if he loves the OW, how can he justify dragging it out for so long and leave her to wonder why she just isn't valuable enough? It is my hope that each and every OW on this site see the light and demand to know their value. WF, Is it possible that "nothing" is going through his mind? Could it be that the OM/MM is just "weak"? That he won't "rock the boat" as long as his needs are being met by the OW? That he just want or needs to continue to persue what he needs (sexual and emotional gratification) in the present without thinking about the effect his actions are having on the other woman future? The womans value to him may limited to her sexual and emotional availability. The only way to determine this would be to become unavailable and watch his response. Does he begin searching for another sexual / emotional outlet?
bentnotbroken Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 WF, Is it possible that "nothing" is going through his mind? Could it be that the OM/MM is just "weak"? That he won't "rock the boat" as long as his needs are being met by the OW? That he just want or needs to continue to persue what he needs (sexual and emotional gratification) in the present without thinking about the effect his actions are having on the other woman future? The womans value to him may limited to her sexual and emotional availability. The only way to determine this would be to become unavailable and watch his response. Does he begin searching for another sexual / emotional outlet? This is Mr. Messy. He is a weak, emotionally crippled, incapable of love other than for himself. He will continue to look for his next fix, no matter what he says. He isn't going to seek help with his problems and will continue to inflict emotional damage on anyone who comes in contact with him.
OWoman Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Same as most of the Ms we read about on here have problems........ doesn't mean they're representative of all marriages, does it ? Quite possibly it does. I've never heard of a M with no problems. How those problems get addressed / resolved will no doubt determine whether those Ms last or not. Same as an A or any other R. Only difference is, when most people read that the R is a M, their advice is supportive ("M = good") whereas when they read that the R is an A, their advice is to end it ("A = bad"). For those on the receiving end of the advice, if they're susceptible to what they're being told, and act on it, the reinforcement of the prejudice ("M good, A bad") will help predetermine the outcome, and so fewer As will pan out in the long run, and more Ms will continue. And few people are going to post here and then just totally blow off what they're told. Even the most hard-arsed will find the continuous stream of negativity wears at them - which is perhaps why so few of the long-term successes stick around. They want to move into a happier space without being called on to defend their happiness and success for the ritual bashing.
NoIDidn't Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 yes, but by the same token , how many that everything worked out fine for do you think even feel the need to look for a forum such as this, let alone post ? What an invalid argument! How many times have I read from OP that didn't even know that a place such as this existed for discussion and (emotional) support (not enabling poor judgment). Sooooo, how many hurting or happy OPs do you think even feel the need to look for a forum such as this, let alone post? Whether they are happy or hurting? We can all make the claim that there are more scenarios of success or failure out there that we don't see posted on the forum. WWIU was only mentioning those that have posted, and we can't possibly know how things have fared for all of the OPs that have ever posted here if they don't update the forum. Every time someone posts about the number of alleged success stories versus breakups, the lame argument about society is brought up, when only the posters of this forum are in the running. Why try to argue a point that can't be proven? We can go through the threads and come up with the numbers for the forum, but we can't poll everyone in society. Same as most of the Ms we read about on here have problems........ doesn't mean they're representative of all marriages, does it ? This was thrown in to make it look balanced.
NoIDidn't Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 And few people are going to post here and then just totally blow off what they're told. Even the most hard-arsed will find the continuous stream of negativity wears at them - which is perhaps why so few of the long-term successes stick around. They want to move into a happier space without being called on to defend their happiness and success for the ritual bashing. Or maybe they just get tired of reading about the majority of "failed" affairs? Relationships are messy. To try to say that the opposite of M = good, A= bad is true makes one wonder then, why some many OPs want exclusivity (which really is what marriage is with or without the *paper*) with their AP? Why want the good affair to turn into a bad normal relationship? That doesn't make any sense at all.
OWoman Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Or maybe they just get tired of reading about the majority of "failed" affairs? Relationships are messy. To try to say that the opposite of M = good, A= bad is true makes one wonder then, why some many OPs want exclusivity (which really is what marriage is with or without the *paper*) with their AP? Why want the good affair to turn into a bad normal relationship? That doesn't make any sense at all. I didn't, and wouldn't, make that claim (though others might, I don't know.) I judge each case on its individual merits. I have issues with M as an institution, but that doesn't mean that I think every single M sucks, or that all Rs which are not Ms are necessarily better. Nor did I say that As or not "normal Rs" so I'm not sure how that got inserted as an opposition. I juxtaposed As with Ms, not As with "normal Rs" and nowhere did I equate Ms with "normal Rs". As and Ms are both "normal Rs" IMO, each with their own structural peculiarities and each with the potential to be good or bad in spite of / because of this.
NoIDidn't Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I didn't, and wouldn't, make that claim (though others might, I don't know.) I judge each case on its individual merits. I have issues with M as an institution, but that doesn't mean that I think every single M sucks, or that all Rs which are not Ms are necessarily better. Nor did I say that As or not "normal Rs" so I'm not sure how that got inserted as an opposition. I juxtaposed As with Ms, not As with "normal Rs" and nowhere did I equate Ms with "normal Rs". As and Ms are both "normal Rs" IMO, each with their own structural peculiarities and each with the potential to be good or bad in spite of / because of this. I don't really understand the first sentence of the last paragraph. So I am going to assume that "or" is supposed to be "are". That being said..... An A is not a normal R. It is a parasitical R. It takes the nourishment from the main or supposed to be primary R. Lots of Rs can be parasitical in nature too, not just As. But As by nature are parasites. Not saying the people in them are parasites, just the relationship to the host R that is being imposed upon. My question could read: why want the good relationship type to turn into the bad relationship type (if we assume that M is bad, A is good)?
OWoman Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I don't really understand the first sentence of the last paragraph. So I am going to assume that "or" is supposed to be "are". That being said..... thanks - yes it was a typo. An A is not a normal R. It is a parasitical R. It takes the nourishment from the main or supposed to be primary R. Lots of Rs can be parasitical in nature too' date=' not just As. But As by nature are parasites.[/quote'] In some cases, I'm sure that is so. But I don't think that is so of necessity. If I look at my parents' M as a case in point: my father's A contributed what energy, what engagement there was - before the A he was completely withdrawn, depressed, melancholy. Once the A was underway he was far more "present" at home - he engaged with us, he wasn't always unhappy, he wasn't always lying on his bed or hiding in his garage. The M itself was a downer, sucking life out of both parents, long before the A started. Sometimes the "supposed to be primary R" is already dead, and there is no nourishment to be had from it. Sometimes the "supposed to be primary R" receives nourishment from the A. Sometimes the MM is so adept at compartmentalising that neither affects the other. And sometimes, yes, the A may sap nourishment from the "supposed to be primary R". But I don't think any of these are structurally inevitable.
Lookingforward Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 This was thrown in to make it look balanced. Or just MAYBE...that's because I generally take a balanced view of things ? unlike some ? LOL
OpenBook Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 yes, but by the same token , how many that everything worked out fine for do you think even feel the need to look for a forum such as this, let alone post ? I have always struggled to understand this. If (as some married people claim here, for example) their real lives/marriages/relationships are so peachy-keen, why are they spending so much time on LS?? I know I wouldn't be posting nearly so much here if I was happily in a relationship right now. Most of my time and focus would be invested in him, doing things with him. Posting on LS is definitely a solitary activity! But I'm not other people... and I'm definitely not married!! So I really don't know. Or just MAYBE...that's because I generally take a balanced view of things ? unlike some ? LOL No, LF, that CAN'T be it.:lmao:
GreenEyedLady Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 WHAT DO YOU THINK? Did I CHEAT on him? Someone who was married to another woman? We told each other that we were committed to each other, but then he went BACK! He promised he was not having sex with her, but he was sleeping in her bed and going home to her every night for weeks and weeks...... I had no clue what was really going on. It drove me crazy.... I would lay in my bed every night SICK over it. What do you think....???? I love him and I am not ready to give up on our relationship. We finally have a real chance, but now he is blaming me and making me feel like crap and like I'M THE CHEATER. You didn't cheat on him. Take that stance. Don't let him use it against you. If he wanted you to stay faithful, he shouldn't have kept going back to his W. He has someone in his bed, you had someone in yours. Be unapologetic and I bet he'll sing a different tune. GEL
NoIDidn't Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Or just MAYBE...that's because I generally take a balanced view of things ? unlike some ? LOL Your posts are certainly more balanced than some other previous OW here that haven't reformed. But on this one, it was an after thought that wasn't as developed as the main point you wanted to make. IMO.
Lookingforward Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Your posts are certainly more balanced than some other previous OW here that haven't reformed. But on this one' date=' it was an after thought that wasn't as developed as the main point you wanted to make. IMO.[/quote'] Well fwiw , I'm not a "previous OW that hasn't reformed" LOL and I apologise - I tend to post in short bursts rather than write a novel, so sometimes my thoughts aren't as "developed" as some who do
White Flower Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 WF, Is it possible that "nothing" is going through his mind? Could it be that the OM/MM is just "weak"? That he won't "rock the boat" as long as his needs are being met by the OW? That he just want or needs to continue to persue what he needs (sexual and emotional gratification) in the present without thinking about the effect his actions are having on the other woman future? The womans value to him may limited to her sexual and emotional availability. The only way to determine this would be to become unavailable and watch his response. Does he begin searching for another sexual / emotional outlet? I hate to admit that you're probably right. I think most would say I did this once but never again and the rest would go out and find a replacement. The ones who are actually in love might do something about it, but then again there is the comfort zone vs all that work. Sad, really.
White Flower Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 You didn't cheat on him. Take that stance. Don't let him use it against you. If he wanted you to stay faithful, he shouldn't have kept going back to his W. He has someone in his bed, you had someone in yours. Be unapologetic and I bet he'll sing a different tune. GEL I agree. He doesn't like the taste of his own medicine.
White Flower Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Well fwiw , I'm not a "previous OW that hasn't reformed" LOL and I apologise - I tend to post in short bursts rather than write a novel, so sometimes my thoughts aren't as "developed" as some who do That's OK. For those of us who write novels, it gets tiresome, let me tell ya;)
nadiaj2727 Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Thanks, Nadia. The part I bolded is what I agree with you on. It hurts so much to believe a man can continue to just play the game in order to benefit himself. What goes through his mind? Even if he loves the OW, how can he justify dragging it out for so long and leave her to wonder why she just isn't valuable enough? It is my hope that each and every OW on this site see the light and demand to know their value. I honestly don't know the answer to this. I have read some MM posts on here and other forums where they are just being selfish and refusing to admit it (or some do admit it). I also think they are confused. In my case I wonder, why did xMM separate/ move out only to drag his feet? That was prolonging the pain for both me and his BS. Sometimes I think it means he loved me but was afraid to leap, and sometimes I wonder if it was all just a stunt to make me THINK he was for real. I know for sure that he had to be telling his wife something completely different from what he was telling me! So in the end I think if he cared for one of us or both of us he would have told the truth a lot better. All I can conclude is that he was confused and weak, and he put off making a decision because he was too afraid to pick one and really go for it. I don't want a man like that. Sometimes I hate him and sometimes I feel sorry for him. Usually I just try not to think about him, to move on. And ALL THE TIME I feel so good about myself for letting him go and walking away. It was so hard to do and no matter how down I get about what I did in the past or why, or wonder if he ever loved me or if it was just about his own self-gratification etc., I am always proud of myself for demanding all or nothing. I know you did the same thing and I too hope that other OWs figure out that they are worth way more than that.
Chrome Barracuda Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 If the OP is single why does she even care. Does she owe the MM loyalty???
MichelleS1983 Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 Ahhh, so Mr. MidLife Crisis didn't like his toy being tainted by another, is that it? I'm still trying to control my gag reflex since this guy is 42 and the OW is only 25 (too young to know better). He's quite the sleazy little liar, isn't he? Trying to keep his 25 year old girlfriend on the side and play happy husband at home. Yeah, sure he hasn't had sex with the wife since December. I have a bridge I'd like to sell you, if you're interested. The fact that you even think you 'cheated' on this lying snake is actually laughable, but again, you're only 25. Are you going to waste your child-bearing years on this middle-aged wonder?
Recommended Posts