OMG, he left in the middle of the night!

[Cherry Blossom 35]

When I said you just won't take no for an answer, I did not say this in a joing way. And no, I was not laughing my head off or anything. I just rolled my eyes and let out a little peep. My internal reactions was, really? Did he really do that? Who does that?

[Cherry Blossom 35]

What is your point here? You are basically saying that it was all Cherry's fault again and since the guy didn't commit full-on rape under gunpoint, he is completely innocent.

 

He is SO not completely innocent. I think it is funny that a certain poster (a guy) said I was blaming my "personal boundary issues" on men.

 

Does this guy not have an issue with personal boundary issues too? I would say he has a major problem. He did not respect my boundaries that I was clearly laying out.

[Tomcat33]

What is your point here? You are basically saying that it was all Cherry's fault again and since the guy didn't commit full-on rape under gunpoint, he is completely innocent.

 

And you are twisting my words YET AGAIN.

 

 

My "point" is that if we are going to talk about this openly then let's. No point in having a bunch of strangers speculating over what happened.

 

Cherry came her for help, she came here to understand why she does this and she came here for insight on why she repeatedly does this and to STOP doing it. If we brush the incident under the carpet and speculate what is the point?

 

If Cherry wants to answer the question it still stands if she doesn't then that's fine too, I leave that in her jurisdication. Really Calisto, I was asking her not you, but I hope this answers your question.

[Tomcat33]

We were at the door. I had already asked him to leave. I turned around to unlock it and when I turned back around I saw that he had pulled out his penis. Then he lifted my skirt and said he "wanted one last look". This is when I should have turned back around and shoved him out the door. I kind of laughed, because I thought it was funny that that penis was staring at me!

 

I made a comment along the lines of "oh you just won't take no for an answer, will you?" then he picked me up and took me to the bedroom. BTW, I'm 5.2 and 130 pounds and he was at least a foot taller than me. So we went back there and that's when I was like, ok, fine, we'll do it. I really didn't want to but his overwhelming persistance broke me down. This is where my past has really clouded my reasoning. The truth is I was not very excited at this point. Yes, he had touched me in some areas which caused me to be momentarily "turned on", but was I feeling really horny? No, I wasn't. I went along with it because I just felt like well, this is what I need to do. So no, he did not force me in that sense. He did not have a gun to my head. He did not hold me down. I just felt like, well, this is what I have to do.

 

 

 

Ok Cherry thank you very much for answering that honestly and in full detail, as I see you recount what happened I am now 100% confident this was not rape.

 

However I do want to comment on the parts I bolded since I do think you need to explore exactly that. Those words I bolded and you wrote, sit down and explore what it was that prompted you to feel what you were feeling. Why you felt that you "had" to do something you really weren't inclinded to do. This is what you need to explore in therapy and figure out what this running theme is, what do you hope to get from this kind of intimacy and if he had slept there all night and woke up next to you do you think you would have seen him again if he was so inclined to take you out again? And moreso do you think you would have felt as poorly as you did had the he not snuck out in the middle of the night cheapening the experience even more.

 

You see I think that what is going on here is that you went with the one night stand mentality, forget about that you were in a dangerous situation or that this guy was extra agressive and scary and the overall risk of the situation, but you went with a one night stand scenario and yet I don't really think that is deep down what you truly wanted. You wanted it even less when he became so animated and agressive and you were even turned off but you figured, heck I am here might as well get it over and done with. Then when he left in the middle of the night it made you feel worse, because on top of the fact that you were not that into him in the end he pulled that stunt. So this is what you need to explore and figure out what is underlyning this need that is misinterpreted as a sexual need when perhaps it is not sexual at all. you are relating to the wrong types of men through your sexuality when perhaps that is not the intimacy you really need up front or even crave, get what I am saying?

 

And I agree there is NOTHING innocent about that guy, he did not act like a gentleman, he acted like a pig.

[Tomcat33]

I am a really confident person in many areas of my life but there are a couple of areas where I severely lack esteem, and this is one of them. I just feel like an overwhelming personality smothers me and I just submit. Not good, I know.

 

 

You know something... this reminds me so much of my friend, she is a beautiful successful professional with a sparkling and gorgeous personality and yet when it came to this one area of men she really didn't have the confidence to carry it through yet she is a very self confident woman. And I hear you say these things and it breaks my heart because this is all due to the fact that some peice of shiiit lower than low poor excuse for a humna being did this to her or you back in your past. But at least you recognize your vulnerabilites and I think that is huge and is also why you really should consider working on your past to completely understand what drives you now.

 

 

Anyway enjoy the gym, I am going to work out too catch you later.

[Jilly Bean]

And you are twisting my words YET AGAIN.

 

TC - you're not going to make any headway with this poster. She twisted everything I said, too, and seems to have turned this into a personal attack on you and I. Best to let it go, my sister...

 

I think you and I made a very good point, that seems to fall silent to some on here. That being, of COURSE the guy was a pig, of COURSE he was out of line, of COURSE no decent man should behave like that. I don't think we refutted that for a moment, nor did we condone his actions.

 

BUT, as we also pointed out, if you are going to take home strangers from a bar, then you certainly run the risk of encountering people who will not respect your boundaries.

 

I think to gloss over this would condone CB's actions, and I can't do that either. I am tremendously relieved she was not harmed physically, but she does need to accept some responsibility for putting herself in harms way. Its just a simple matter of using good judgement.

[Jilly Bean]

So we went back there and that's when I was like, ok, fine, we'll do it. I really didn't want to but his overwhelming persistance broke me down.

 

CB - I think if you felt like your safety was in jeopardy, or that if you resisted, that things would have escalated, then you were smart to turn submissive. It's what most people would do when facing down an attacker. It's self-preservation, and I'm not sure I would have acted any differently, if I truly felt threatened.

 

Thing is, not to put yourself in such a situation again so this doesn't repeat. (the pink elephant, I know...).

 

I always believe EVERYTHING happens for a reason. Even the bad things, CB. Perhaps this was a gentle wake-up call to get you to resolve the earlier attack, or to somehow change your behavior to prevent something worse from happening down the road. Yes, still a HORRIBLE thing for anyone to go through. Even though it was not rape, it was still a violation.

 

I hope you're feeling a bit better today...

[Calisto]

yeah, you're just repeating what you already have done yet again because whenever I bring up the point that guys need to understand what "no" and "please leave" mean, you make it a point to think I'm attacking you.

I could say the same thing "Of COURSE we know that you should watch who you bring home. Of COURSE you shoud watch your safety, blah, blah, blah" Yeah, we got that, in fact CB already stated in the original post that she realized she shouldn't have done some things.

It's just that I'm not going to let you sit here and think that your agenda of promoting safety over and over and over again is the point of this entire thread.

I'm making it a point to say "Men, using force to get sex is not acceptable."

So...I said it again, Jilly Bean, deal.

I still do feel (know) that the guy was at fault here and that the issue is that he thought he was entitled when he wasn't.

Nobody was glossing anything over, it's just that I brought up another point that this guy was basically a rapist and you always refuted that by making it about your own agenda (over and over and over again).

There were some male posters who agreed with me but nope...got to bring it back to the same ole point we've already heard over and over and make it clear that JillyBean's point is the most important one.

 

TC - you're not going to make any headway with this poster. She twisted everything I said, too, and seems to have turned this into a personal attack on you and I. Best to let it go, my sister...

 

I think you and I made a very good point, that seems to fall silent to some on here. That being, of COURSE the guy was a pig, of COURSE he was out of line, of COURSE no decent man should behave like that. I don't think we refutted that for a moment, nor did we condone his actions.

 

BUT, as we also pointed out, if you are going to take home strangers from a bar, then you certainly run the risk of encountering people who will not respect your boundaries.

 

I think to gloss over this would condone CB's actions, and I can't do that either. I am tremendously relieved she was not harmed physically, but she does need to accept some responsibility for putting herself in harms way. Its just a simple matter of using good judgement.

[Ruby Slippers]

CB - I think if you felt like your safety was in jeopardy, or that if you resisted, that things would have escalated, then you were smart to turn submissive. It's what most people would do when facing down an attacker. It's self-preservation, and I'm not sure I would have acted any differently, if I truly felt threatened.

First off, I agree with you that this guy sounds like a total creep, but that it is her job to work on making better decisions about what sorts of situations she gets herself into.

 

But a number of things I have read on self-defense say submitting is rarely a good idea unless you have absolutely no other choice. I read an article in which a number of convicted rapists interviewed said that if the woman puts up much of a fight, they'll decide she's not worth it and leave the scene.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

TC - you're not going to make any headway with this poster. She twisted everything I said, too, and seems to have turned this into a personal attack on you and I. Best to let it go, my sister...

 

I think you and I made a very good point, that seems to fall silent to some on here. That being, of COURSE the guy was a pig, of COURSE he was out of line, of COURSE no decent man should behave like that. I don't think we refutted that for a moment, nor did we condone his actions.

 

BUT, as we also pointed out, if you are going to take home strangers from a bar, then you certainly run the risk of encountering people who will not respect your boundaries.

 

I think to gloss over this would condone CB's actions, and I can't do that either. I am tremendously relieved she was not harmed physically, but she does need to accept some responsibility for putting herself in harms way. Its just a simple matter of using good judgement.

 

I'm not asking anyone to condone my actions. I've stated several times throughout the thread that I've accepted responsibility. I'm not going to do it again and again because it is getting to the point where people feel like it is okay to make me feel bad about myself and I've already been there and gotten the t-shirt. I HAVE ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY. I KNOW WHAT I DID WRONG. And yes, the fact that several people have pointed out the danger in this situation DOES make me realize how important it is to never do this again. But I'm not a bad person because I made a bad judgement call. I'm not going to flog myself for that. Listen to advice? Understand I need to work on some things? Hear some differing opinions that may be critical yet supportive of me? That's what I came here for. I have received that from you, JillyBean, and others.

 

I'm a good person who made a bad decision.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

yeah, you're just repeating what you already have done yet again because whenever I bring up the point that guys need to understand what "no" and "please leave" mean, you make it a point to think I'm attacking you.

I could say the same thing "Of COURSE we know that you should watch who you bring home. Of COURSE you shoud watch your safety, blah, blah, blah" Yeah, we got that, in fact CB already stated in the original post that she realized she shouldn't have done some things.

It's just that I'm not going to let you sit here and think that your agenda of promoting safety over and over and over again is the point of this entire thread.

I'm making it a point to say "Men, using force to get sex is not acceptable."

So...I said it again, Jilly Bean, deal.

I still do feel (know) that the guy was at fault here and that the issue is that he thought he was entitled when he wasn't.

Nobody was glossing anything over, it's just that I brought up another point that this guy was basically a rapist and you always refuted that by making it about your own agenda (over and over and over again).

There were some male posters who agreed with me but nope...got to bring it back to the same ole point we've already heard over and over and make it clear that JillyBean's point is the most important one.

 

I realize that I'm the one posting here, looking for advice, and I can only control and change my actions, so most of the advice will be on how I can better take care of myself in the future.

 

The one thing that bothers me when reading through this thread, is this.

 

What if this guy HAD raped me? What if he put a gun to my head or choked me or held me down? What would the posters say then? It must have been my fault. Poor judgement. Slutty girl who picks up men in bars.

 

Honestly, if I had been forcibly raped there is nothing in this story that would change as far as my actions. I still met him in the bar, I still let him walk me home, I still fell prey to his persistance. What would people say then? That I deserved the rape? After all, I let him in. Shouldn't have done that. Shouldv'e known that could happen.

 

Just a thought.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

 

You see I think that what is going on here is that you went with the one night stand mentality, forget about that you were in a dangerous situation or that this guy was extra agressive and scary and the overall risk of the situation, but you went with a one night stand scenario and yet I don't really think that is deep down what you truly wanted.

 

 

 

You wanted it even less when he became so animated and agressive and you were even turned off but you figured, heck I am here might as well get it over and done with. Then when he left in the middle of the night it made you feel worse, because on top of the fact that you were not that into him in the end he pulled that stunt. So this is what you need to explore and figure out what is underlyning this need that is misinterpreted as a sexual need when perhaps it is not sexual at all. you are relating to the wrong types of men through your sexuality when perhaps that is not the intimacy you really need up front or even crave, get what I am saying?

 

 

 

And I agree there is NOTHING innocent about that guy, he did not act like a gentleman, he acted like a pig.

 

The only thing not quite right here is that I did not want sex.

 

Other than that, I TOTALLY get what you are saying. You have helped me make some sense out of my actions. Thank you.

[mortensorchid]

Yuck. Well, we all make mistakes in regards to a situation like this. I am not speaking about your date rape situation, but, just about this evening. It's ok to feel dirty, as long as you don't put yourself in the situation again. Consider yourself lucky that this ended when it did. You can move on now.

[SoulSearch_CO]

Wow. I can't imagine not fighting. I can't even comprehend it. I never understood it. You're not the only woman with that mentality that it's going to happen anyway, so to just go with it. Yikes. Guys can pick up on women that have that kind of mentality. Maybe an assertiveness class or better yet, self-defense, is in order. You have to imagine victory in order to get there. I can't even imagine being raped. The guy would get so sick of fighting me, he'd finally give up and leave me alone. I think it's this mere thought that has kept me out of serious trouble. Guys (ESPECIALLY predators) can pick up on your self-confidence. You really need to do something to change this mindset so that it doesn't happen again. Your original answer of, "No, you can't come in" should have stood. With each "No...well, okay..." he got the message that it was okay to ignore your "no." Assertiveness and self-confidence would serve you well.

 

I am most certainly NOT saying you deserved this - NO woman does.

[Tomcat33]

I realize that I'm the one posting here, looking for advice, and I can only control and change my actions, so most of the advice will be on how I can better take care of myself in the future.

 

The one thing that bothers me when reading through this thread, is this.

 

What if this guy HAD raped me? What if he put a gun to my head or choked me or held me down? What would the posters say then? It must have been my fault. Poor judgement. Slutty girl who picks up men in bars.

 

Honestly, if I had been forcibly raped there is nothing in this story that would change as far as my actions. I still met him in the bar, I still let him walk me home, I still fell prey to his persistance. What would people say then? That I deserved the rape? After all, I let him in. Shouldn't have done that. Shouldv'e known that could happen.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

That is a valid question that deserves an answer.

 

If this guy had forced himself on you and held you down and actually raped you that still wouldn't change the idea that you put yourself in a situation that was potentially dangerous, and hence the worst possible outcome happened. YET no one deserves to be raped CB, you are NOT a slut because you invited a man up to your place after a bar. And I repeat NO one deserves to be forced to do something they are not willing to do.

But if this man did make you feel forced, then you need to report him. You need to reach out to the authorities and let them deal with what this guy did to you, but I just don't think you are convinced of that because your role in this was passive agressive. While you were not convinced you wanted him to continue you did not stand your ground and stand firm with him really either or you just did not know how, which brings me to the next point...

 

You see you can invite a man back to your place and you can walk on the wild side and do the risky thing but ALWAYS ALWAYS be prepared that if things don't work out as you planned you must be capable to deal with the "what ifs" of a guy you barely know who can't take no for an answer.

I have never had a one night stand but if I did I have it clear in my head and have played it out what I would do if a man tried to force me to do what I don't want to do. And trust me I have had to fight off my share of men, yes I have been on dates where they were more agressive and more persuasive than the rest and I have removed myself from that situation leaving NO room for misinterpretation, when I say no I mean no even if I have to act it out with all my being, if that is what it takes I don't give a damn the message will be heard and seen and I will put up a good fight to be heard.

 

While this can happen to any woman who takes a chance on letting a virtual stranger into her home (or in ANY CIRCUMSTANCE for that matter) the idea that a woman such as yourself who has self admitted that she has a hard time asserting herself with personalities that are more powerful than her own, makes you aware enough to recognize this so it contradicts your gutsy behaviour in allowing a virtually strange man come back to your place under the circumstances that you were in. This SHOULD be noted and focused on.

 

Again, me personally, I am not trying to make you feel bad for your choice, we all make bad choices. Trust me I know that ALL too well. Anyone can and will make a bad choice. It is important however to know what your boundaries are and to understand what you are capable of and what you are not. If you make a choice to do something and you later realise it felt worse than you had anticipated then why continue with that behaviour hoping for a different outcome the next time around? I say this because you said you have done this before, you let it get to the point where you don't really even want to have sex with a guy and go for it anyway.

 

Now if you had said look I've had my share of one night stands and I love it, and have a great time and can move on from that because I enjoy it for what it is and I feel in control of what I am doing, then there is nothing to second guess here. Here is a woman who feels empowered with what she does and she handles a night of no strings attached sex and enjoys it and that's that. But your opening post clearly states that you want to understand why you do this when you don't even want it. So I sense an internal battle going on here in terms of the choices you make.

 

As per what would be different if you said this guy had physically forced you to have sex I would be urging you to contact the authorities to make this creep pay for what he did.

[Calisto]

The issue is that CB didn't do anything wrong and she is being made to feel like she is the one with issues and who did something wrong.

The GUY is the one who has ISSUES and has an ENTITLED and RAPIST mentality. He clearly has anger issues and a disrespect if not hatred for women.

HE is the one who needs therapy.

CB, don't beat yourself up thinking you are flawed in anyway and that you did anything wrong.

 

HE is the one with issues, NOT you. HE is the one who needs intensive therapy so he doesn't do this to any other women.

[Tomcat33]

Other than that, I TOTALLY get what you are saying. You have helped me make some sense out of my actions. Thank you.

 

 

CB I am glad this gave you some clarity, that was my only intent. I am NO ONE to judge you or your actions my heart goes out to you and no one should have to go through what you did in your past, I feel bad and sad for all those injustices in this world.

 

You know sometimes we get stuck in a rut so it is easier for others to see what we can't.

 

Takes a lot of guts to talk about this stuff and to be as honest as you have been out here with us, just thought you should know.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

CB I am glad this gave you some clarity, that was my only intent. I am NO ONE to judge you or your actions my heart goes out to you and no one should have to go through what you did in your past, I feel bad and sad for all those injustices in this world.

 

You know sometimes we get stuck in a rut so it is easier for others to see what we can't.

 

Takes a lot of guts to talk about this stuff and to be as honest as you have been out here with us, just thought you should know.

 

Thanks a lot! I knew that by posting here I might get some crazies but I also knew that I would get some thoughtful people who would be supportive and tell me their opinions, even if those opinions might sometimes be hard to hear. I've also gotten some really supportive posts by people who made me feel that even if I made some mistakes, I'm not a bad person, just a person who ran into the wrong guy.

 

And while I may have some esteem issues, I also have good relationships and good men in my life so I have that to draw from as well.

 

I'm feeling better today

[Calisto]

The one thing that bothers me when reading through this thread, is this.

 

What if this guy HAD raped me? What if he put a gun to my head or choked me or held me down? What would the posters say then? It must have been my fault. Poor judgement. Slutty girl who picks up men in bars.

 

Honestly, if I had been forcibly raped there is nothing in this story that would change as far as my actions. I still met him in the bar, I still let him walk me home, I still fell prey to his persistance. What would people say then? That I deserved the rape? After all, I let him in. Shouldn't have done that. Shouldv'e known that could happen.

 

Just a thought.

 

Exactly! It is a bit disconcerting and scary that people aren't getting that.

[tinktronik]

I realize that I'm the one posting here, looking for advice, and I can only control and change my actions, so most of the advice will be on how I can better take care of myself in the future.

 

The one thing that bothers me when reading through this thread, is this.

 

What if this guy HAD raped me? What if he put a gun to my head or choked me or held me down? What would the posters say then? It must have been my fault. Poor judgement. Slutty girl who picks up men in bars.

 

Honestly, if I had been forcibly raped there is nothing in this story that would change as far as my actions. I still met him in the bar, I still let him walk me home, I still fell prey to his persistance. What would people say then? That I deserved the rape? After all, I let him in. Shouldn't have done that. Shouldv'e known that could happen.

 

Just a thought.

It WOULD be a different story if this had happened , and I was not asserting that you are a slut in any manner.

I think at the heart of the matter you simply need to learn to assert yourself even if you continue to choose to put yourself into "iffy" situations.

This guy does sound like a creep to me and not someone I would have any interest in, but not a rapist. Perhaps a man that needs things obviously spelled out for him.

Just learn how to be assertive and maybe stop drinking for a while if it makes you behave as you would not normally.

I don't think there is anything at all wrong with having one night stands, as long as you can get yourself out of a situation you are uncomfortable with.

[MaxManwell]

Yes but she didn't want him to come in in the first place. Pulling a penis out and pulling up her skirt after he was being pushed out the door is NOT normal behavior. It is forceable, assault behavior. You are saying it's OK that he use force and his physical strength and advantage to get sex. Yes she realizes she made a mistake but he is WAY more at fault and if you think he acted in an average Joe way by being forceful when she was trying to lock him out, then you have issues. Some guys have also commented on here that he was way out of line and had rapist/assaulter tendencies.

 

Look I don't care anymore and this is a load of rubbish anyway. Rape is bad if you don't want to be raped protect yourself.

 

Don't be promiscuous, don't be a slut, don't take home strange men from bars. Stop BLAMING men. The legal system will deal with it; rape is a crime, we all know that.

 

Accept the reality that you are physically weaker than men, and that most of them, if you are attractive; will want to penetrate you. That is something you need to be cautious and protective of, for your own sake. Morality, lies ,feminism, and your ideas of, ' what should happen' are all meaningless.

 

Because as Cherry has discovered none of that will do you any good when the man is already in your home. On that note men are what we are we are sexually driven and aggressive creatures. Deal with that and accept it rather than fighting it and trying to change our nature.

 

Advice : Stop sleeping around and you won't feel bad when he leaves in the middle of the night. Find a decent guy, settle and have a supportive relationship. Maybe then your poor view of men will change.

[carhill]

No words of wisdom here, but wanted to preserve the sanctity of the perspective above

 

CB35, glad to see you're doing better....

[Calisto]

The aggressiveness and force he exhibited is NOT normal. I have dated a lot and I've never had a man treat me in this way. You are also saying that men are feeling entitlement and naturally don't respect when they have been told to leave. You are basically saying that it is normal behavior to pick up a woman against her will.

 

 

Look I don't care anymore and this is a load of rubbish anyway. Rape is bad if you don't want to be raped protect yourself.

 

Don't be promiscuous, don't be a slut, don't take home strange men from bars. Stop BLAMING men. The legal system will deal with it; rape is a crime, we all know that.

 

Accept the reality that you are physically weaker than men, and that most of them, if you are attractive; will want to penetrate you. That is something you need to be cautious and protective of, for your own sake. Morality, lies ,feminism, and your ideas of, ' what should happen' are all meaningless.

 

Because as Cherry has discovered none of that will do you any good when the man is already in your home. On that note men are what we are we are sexually driven and aggressive creatures. Deal with that and accept it rather than fighting it and trying to change our nature.

 

Advice : Stop sleeping around and you won't feel bad when he leaves in the middle of the night. Find a decent guy, settle and have a supportive relationship. Maybe then your poor view of men will change.