OMG, he left in the middle of the night!

[Cherry Blossom 35]

 

I mean back on the first page Jilly asked Cherry what her takeaway was and she wasn't sure what to take away from this!?!?

 

I can't imagine recounting a story like this and having nothing to take away from it in terms of a lesson learned. Maybe that's just me... (!)

 

Let me make this very clear. I was NOT saying that I did not think there was anything to take away from this. You state that you "can't imagine recounting a story like this and a have nothing to take away from it". Please. As if. What I did say was that I needed to think about it. I am feeling overwhelmed with emotions today and my brain is quite foggy. Might I need some time to process this? I think so. Why do you think I posted here? So I could read a bunch of strangers telling me I f*** up and I should have learned my lesson? I realize there will be all sorts of responses to a thread like this and I realize not all answers will make me feel hunky-dory. I wanted to gain some insight and some of the posts here, including yours, Tomkat, have helped me a lot.

 

I am a complex person with complex emotions. Please give me the benefit of that doubt.

 

By the way, when I told my two friends today what happened, they were both really surprised. They said they would not have left me alone if they thought the guy was creepy at all. He was there with a bunch of people working on the Presidential campaign and he seemed really courteous, smart, and funny. You don't always get what you bargained for.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

The immediately preceeding is why I bend every effort to give someone the benefit of the doubt...yikes, so sorry to hear that story CB35

 

Thanks for your thoughts, Carhill. As always, you have been thoughtful and kind.

 

It is truly scary what some people are capable of.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Hey CB,

 

That's pretty scary!

 

I went through a really bad period after my last relationship fell apart. I began drinking a lot and as a result repeatedly put myself in risky situations where I very well could have been raped. I remember going home with a guy after a bar and I got a bad vibe when I got to his place so I took off. I was so drunk and I didn't know where I was, my cell phone was dead and I ended up walking home in the middle of the night and let some stranger give me a ride home. That was my wake up call.

 

I did something similar to what you did last night. I was on vacation in Florida when I was young and my friend met a guy and invited him and his friend to come back to her condo. The friend and I ended up making out- and he too got very aggressive and it ended up with him penetrating me and me being passive about it because I was afraid.

 

I agree that there is something about those of us that put ourselves in risky situations like that. It's a problem that needs an intervention.

 

I hope you are doing okay.

 

I should have said this in my previous post, but I am sorry this happened to you.

 

I like your shark!

[Trialbyfire]

What's frightening Cherry, is that I'm seeing in your thread, much of the same attitudes that prevent rape victims from reporting the crime.

 

It's very disappointing.

[MaxManwell]

Don't put yourself in the position where men might be able to

'be aggressive' towards you.

[Calisto]

Don't put yourself in the position where men might be able to

'be aggressive' towards you.

 

Men, when asked to leave and walked to the door, don't forcibly pull your d**k out and forcibly pull up a woman's skirt and use physical force to pick her up when she is trying to lock the door on your way OUT. Also, "Time to leave" doesn't mean "try to use force to have sex with me."

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Men, when asked to leave and walked to the door, don't forcibly pull your d**k out and forcibly pull up a woman's skirt and use physical force to pick her up when she is trying to lock the door on your way OUT. Also, "Time to leave" doesn't mean "try to use force to have sex with me."

 

Very well said.

 

I think it's important to note here that it is easy to pick on me because I met this guy in a bar and let him into my apartment that night. The fact is, however, that this can happen in other situations too. When you don't know people you just don't know people. If you meet someone online, have several dates, then let him into your apartment you think you're being careful, right? So what if the guy is aggressive at that time? You met him online so you probably don't know his friends or family. Not that that makes a difference necessarily either. In high school a friend of mine was forced to have oral sex with this guy from our neighborhood. We knew him since we were really little.

 

This is not to say that I did not engage in risky behavior, because I did. I will not be doing that again, for the record. I've been scared straight, so to speak.

 

So now we all know what I did wrong and that I used bad judgement. Agreed. But I still place a lot of blame on this guy for not listening to me when I was very clear in the beginning. I would say he had pretty poor judgement as well.

 

I'm willing to bet that most of the male posters on this thread would have left when the woman said she was not into this, walked you to the front door, and asked you to leave. Most reasonable people would. A person who believes it is his right to take what he wants will keep pushing and pushing. A person with no respect for boundaries will do this. A person who does not respect my right to say no will do this. That behavior is disgusting, and I appreciate the posters who have made note of this.

[MaxManwell]

Men, when asked to leave and walked to the door, don't forcibly pull your d**k out and forcibly pull up a woman's skirt and use physical force to pick her up when she is trying to lock the door on your way OUT. Also, "Time to leave" doesn't mean "try to use force to have sex with me."

 

I've never done that to a woman and neither has anyone I know, that I know of or any woman had it done to her. Sure, one of my best female friends had a creep following her round a bar making passes, you know what she did ? Told him firmly no and didn't respond to his advances. She told me about it and I told him to leave my girlfriend alone. Problem solved.

 

She certainly did not let him walk her home, or go to her home, or start making out with him. What signal do you think that would send to a man looking for sex ?

 

Sorry, your feminist utopia might work well in your own head and your man hating tendancies might seem justified, in the same place. But in the real world; they will only get you hurt.

[Calisto]

Uh, don't know where you're getting the feminist man-hating part. That doesn't describe me at all. However the other actions the guy did...forcibly pulling his penis out while she was trying to lock the door as he was leaving and forcibly picking her up.....there is something wrong there and it is definitely assault of some kind.

She was not asking for it in any way and made herself very clear. This is not normal behavior, this is rapist aggressor behavior she has described.

She already stated she wasn't as careful as she should be, that is not the point. The point is he was acting aggressively when it was made clear to him she wanted him to leave.

Your way of thinking is a LOT more dangerous. Oh, she was making out with him on the couch so it's OK if he forces himself on her. Oh and making out on a couch means that sex is expected. That is so wrong.

[MaxManwell]

How can you 'forcibly' pull your penis out ? Were his pants stuck ? Hilarious.

[MaxManwell]

Oh and making out on a couch means that sex is expected. That is so wrong.

 

Nope, but it does mean after a drinking at a bar, with a strange female and making out on her couch; that any sane man is going to try really hard to get sex.

 

My way of thinking is that he never ever has to ask to come inside, because she got in a taxi at the bar and goes home alone. Using common sense and protecting herself instead of blaming men for her personal boundary problems.

[SeraBella]

Nope, but it does mean after a drinking at a bar, with a strange female and making out on her couch; that any sane man is going to try really hard to get sex.

 

My way of thinking is that he never ever has to ask to come inside, because she got in a taxi at the bar and goes home alone. Using common sense and protecting herself instead of blaming men for her personal boundary problems.

 

The OP was not actually blaming men for her "personal boundary problems." As far as I read, she was not even calling this rape, it was other posters who were, she was trying to see if there were other women who act in the same way and she was trying to gain an understanding of why she behaves this way.

 

Your posts keep repeating the same thing. We get it. You think it was all her fault. Fine. She is not arguing that point with you. You successfully argued your point (although it wasn't necessary because she said the same things at the beginning)...but you have not said anything to actually help her find an answer to her question or help her gain insight on why she engages in risky behavior.

 

OP - I agree with the others who have said therapy would likely be beneficial to you, especially given some of the history you have posted here. I'm glad you are not hurt, and hopefully you can avoid situations like this in the future. Perhaps you should also evaluate some of the friends you hang out with if they encourage this type of behavior.

[Tomcat33]

Cherry I can only speak for myself, and I apologise if it came across as if I was picking on you, that was not my point. Believe me I am against lectures and judging others on their choices etc. I suppose since you wrote some posts on the first and second page and then you had to go the last I saw of you was where you had said over on the first page you had to think about what had happened before you could decide what your "take-away" was so that rather caught my attention since when a person does something that they feel has put them in a dangerous place or in the wrong they are quick to reflect on this, and that didn't seem to happen with you.

 

But in your defense and in all fairness I will say this, not everyone sees things as easily on the inside as they do from the outside and I failed to recognise that and perhaps this is why some of us were having expectations that you would react a certain way to what you had lived and wouldn't take a lot of thinking to reach that conclusion.

 

Having said that, I think you really need to explore this scenario and the dangers of how real something like this is and how tragic a situation can become if you continue to put yourself in situations such as this.

 

I have seen this type of behaviour in a close friend of mine who was also raped as a child, as an adult she had some seriously skewed views on sex and intimacy and she continually put herself in dangerous situations and at one point went through a phase where she was behaving in a self destructive way and became extremely promiscuous, something similar to this happened to her and it woke her up. That "living on the edge" attitude had to stop because she did not want something terrible to happen to her. But she was only able to see this when she stepped away.

 

We urged her to seek therapy, and though she had never had real intimacy with a man let alone even a relationship, no amount of us explaining to her that this was not the way to go was enough to help her see what she was doing. As much as we tried to advise her and coach her on how to handle guys and how to nurture a healthy relationship with a man, this was something none of us had any experience with or even tha capability to reach out to her. When there is rape involved in someone's past there is serious damage that happens to a human being because of this, and rightly so, what that monster did to her/you will mold your psyche forever, and not in a positive way. So this needs to be adressed professionally.

 

When we experience intimacy with another human being there are things that come out in that experience that were cemented in our personalities from as early as when we are babies. Everything that we experience and learn in our upbringing is played out in how we relate to others in a romantic rel. But when there is something as traumatic as rape in the earlier stages of development (by that I mean until a teen is 24, did you know that a teen's brain is NOT fully developed until they are 24? so any traumtic experience that happens during those crucial years will hinder a person's natural development and it will play out later in life. This is why therapy is so important to help you understand they "why's" and "how come's" which as you already explained in the opening post to this thread you already have these questions. And only a trianed professional can help you explore that.

 

In the meantime the reason I urge you not to put yourself in a situation where you can become vulnerable as in asking a man you hardly know to go up to your home, is not because I think men who behave like this have a right to do so, but because your use of reason is clouded by your past and unless you can fully comprehend these risidual emotions you cannot clearly guage what is a right feeling and what is a wrong one.

And it's not about BLAME, it is about protecting yourself because no one else will.

 

Take good care.

[Calisto]

Nope, but it does mean after a drinking at a bar, with a strange female and making out on her couch; that any sane man is going to try really hard to get sex.

 

My way of thinking is that he never ever has to ask to come inside, because she got in a taxi at the bar and goes home alone. Using common sense and protecting herself instead of blaming men for her personal boundary problems.

 

Yes but she didn't want him to come in in the first place. Pulling a penis out and pulling up her skirt after he was being pushed out the door is NOT normal behavior. It is forceable, assault behavior. You are saying it's OK that he use force and his physical strength and advantage to get sex. Yes she realizes she made a mistake but he is WAY more at fault and if you think he acted in an average Joe way by being forceful when she was trying to lock him out, then you have issues. Some guys have also commented on here that he was way out of line and had rapist/assaulter tendencies.

[lino]

Take this as a lesson - no more one night stands with guys you just met that night. Live and learn.

 

.

 

IMO this is what it comes down to. If you can't handle yourself to get out of a one night stand that goes wrong then you shouldn't have them!

[Calisto]

.

 

IMO this is what it comes down to. If you can't handle yourself to get out of a one night stand that goes wrong then you shouldn't have them!

 

Not really because he was WAY out of line. Maxwell is trying to tell me that the guy is not responsible for his actions, even though he pushed his way in to get in in the first place to her house, he kept going over boundaries and manipulating CB. Originally she didn't want him to come in and told him that, but he begged to come in anyway.

What it comes down to is that the guy was exhibiting assaulting forceable behavior and men need to be responsible for their actions. Just because a guy is let into your house, doesn't mean he is allowed to behave the way he did. According to Maxwell, he is off the hook simply because she allowed him in in the first place. Maxwell is saying it is OK to assault a women just because you are in her home.

Men need to exhibit responsible behavior,too. When you are lead to a door and asked to leave, you follow that, you don't forcibly pull your penis out and lift her skirt up and lift her up and carry her without her permission (that is actually kidnapping, by the way).

[lino]

Not really because he was WAY out of line. Maxwell is trying to tell me that the guy is not responsible for his actions, even though he pushed his way in to get in in the first place to her house, he kept going over boundaries and manipulating CB. Originally she didn't want him to come in and told him that, but he begged to come in anyway.

What it comes down to is that the guy was exhibiting assaulting forceable behavior and men need to be responsible for their actions. Just because a guy is let into your house, doesn't mean he is allowed to behave the way he did. According to Maxwell, he is off the hook simply because she allowed him in in the first place. Maxwell is saying it is OK to assault a women just because you are in her home.

Men need to exhibit responsible behavior,too. When you are lead to a door and asked to leave, you follow that, you don't forcibly pull your penis out and lift her skirt up and lift her up and carry her without her permission (that is actually kidnapping, by the way).

 

I agree he was way out of line. I don't know if what he did was assault though, she said he didn't physically hurt her at all if I read correctly. If I'm mistaken & he did physically force his way into her place or into her pants then yes of course he is totally accountable for what he did. However begging to come in isn't forcing..it's begging. The OP also said she liked the aggressive way he was acting.

Any one night stand can go wrong that's why if someone is worried about that happening they shouldn't have them.

 

Also OP, thinking that 2 drunk people who met in a club/bar will both be content simply to kiss on a couch is very wishful IMO. One will nearly always want it to go further than the other..remember that.

 

Also I disagree with what Maxwell is saying!

[The Collector]

Men often have to deal with a woman's 'anti-slut' defences. Many women want to be 'swept along' with some vague protesting. Being asked to leave is pretty clear, but if he gives it one last go and she responds with any kissing or receptiveness, that's a sign to keep going. If she'd said NO and struggled, he's crossing the line into rape. She admits she was swept away and responded. Case closed.

 

As for what the OP is asking, from the title of this thread she is ashamed of her behaviour and insulted that he left in the middle of the night. Well in a one night stand scenario that can be par for the course. Don't take it personally and don't do ONS if you don't feel good about them.

[Tomcat33]

Pulling a penis out and pulling up her skirt after he was being pushed out the door is NOT normal behavior. It is forceable, assault behavior. You are saying it's OK that he use force and his physical strength and advantage to get sex.

 

You know what else is not normal? Not closing the door behind a guy like this and saying "get out and stay out, we are done. Here is the phone if you come near me I will call 911 now GO.

 

 

 

First of all Cherry let him into her house he did not force his way up there.

Second of all, she repeatedly told us there was no physical force so where are you getting that he used his physical force to take advange of her sexually? Yes he was very agressive but there were some fine lines happening there that bordered on what is part and parcel of a one night stand and what is considered inapropriate behaviour on his part.

 

Do you see how you are twisting the turn of events around to read a tad differently than what actually went down? That does not discount what happened to Cherry was bad, it was.

 

Do you not see how you are coddling her inability to put her foot down firmly, and you are making it seem like she did everything she could to prevent this. When clearly she did not. Out of her own sense of misguided emotions she did not do all she could to stop this situation and the only way this will not happen again is if she clearly understands this.

[Calisto]

She said he was very forceful. this guy has probably raped before. What he did is on the borderline and men on here have agreed with this statement. Pulling out your penis at the door and lifting up someone's skirt is assault.

You are stating that this guy had no responsibility for his actions and this is normal and he is just an average Joe guy and this is how any guy would react. This guy was VERY pushy.

Lifting her up without her permission IS forceful. He has the physical strength to overpower her. HE moved her without her permission and carried her to the bedroom. She even stated that she was made to felt that if she didn't give in, he would take what he wanted anyway, so she just gave in.

You are so naive, this is RAPE. What this guy did is WRONG.

She ALREADY clearly understands what she needs to do to prevent this from happening again; I'm not here to be a JillyBean and lecture her on HER behavior, but to let you all know that if you have acted ANY way like this to a woman, you are WRONG and exhibiting ASSAULTING RAPIST behavior.

I am allowed to state this. You and JillyBean are allowed to focus on her being a "bad little girl", etc. and lecture her on "safety" etc. I am al

d to state that his behavior was NOT normal and NOT to be expected. I am pointing out to men that picking up a woman against her will and carrying her to her bedroom is ASSAULT. Pulling out your penis when a woman is telling you to leave and is in fact trying to LOCK THE DOOR BEHIND YOU is ASSAULT.

I am telling men to RESPECT when a woman is telling you to leave and is telling you NO THANK YOU. If she doesn't say it exactly in the method you describe, this doesn't mean that SHE is WRONG. YOU ARE because you didn't respect what she has TOLD you she DIDN'T want.

Since you are preaching what women should do to protect themselves, I am letting guys know what is acceptable and what is ASSAULT.

 

You know what else is not normal? Not closing the door behind a guy like this and saying "get out and stay out, we are done. Here is the phone if you come near me I will call 911 now GO.

 

 

 

First of all Cherry let him into her house he did not force his way up there.

Second of all, she repeatedly told us there was no physical force so where are you getting that he used his physical force to take advange of her sexually? Yes he was very agressive but there were some fine lines happening there that bordered on what is part and parcel of a one night stand and what is considered inapropriate behaviour on his part.

 

Do you see how you are twisiting the turn of events around to read a tad differently than what actually went down? That does not discount what happened to Cherry was not bad, it was.

 

Do you not see how you are coddling her inability to put her foot down firmly, and you are making it seem like she did everything she could to prevent this. When clearly she did not. Out of her own sense of misguided emotions she did not do all she could to stop this situation and the only way this will not happen again is if she clearly understands this.

[Tomcat33]

She said he was very forceful. this guy has probably raped before. What he did is on the borderline and men on here have agreed with this statement. Pulling out your penis at the door and lifting up someone's skirt is assault.

 

Ok let me turn this around on you, if that were you in that situation what would you do?

 

 

You are stating that this guy had no responsibility for his actions and this is normal and he is just an average Joe guy and this is how any guy would react. This guy was VERY pushy.

 

 

You see you are doing it again you are twisting words around. While I did say that a guy will try to push for more and that some guys are more agressive than others, NOWHERE in my comments have I said that what this guy did was normal. I don't consider his behaviour normal and me personally in that situation and at the second sign of agression I would have stood up grabbed the phone, opened the door and said "please get out or I will call someone to get you out" So don't put words in my mouth and don't twist what I am saying to make it seem like something else.

 

There is nothing normal about what this guy was doing which is even more reason to wonder why the night was not cut to an end then and there?

 

Lifting her up without her permission IS forceful. He has the physical strength to overpower her. HE moved her without her permission and carried her to the bedroom. She even stated that she was made to felt that if she didn't give in, he would take what he wanted anyway, so she just gave in.

You are so naive, this is RAPE. What this guy did is WRONG.

 

 

If she was raped she should report it. Stop with all the speculation back and forth here and flat out report what happened. End of story.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Serabella: I have spoken with my friends and we all agreed that we won't leave anyone behind in the future. Honestly, they did not fear for me because I don't live that far away and they thought the guy was really nice.

 

Tomkat: Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your follow-up post. You have put some thought into this and given me some real-life examples which is helpful.

 

Calisto: THANK YOU :) for emphasizing this man's HORRID behavior. I realize that I need to protect myself and use better judgement. however, that does not let this a**hole off the hook! Honestly, if any of you were flies on the wall, you would have been really pissed off at this guy. And the fact of the matter is that when I say you need to leave, you need to leave. You do not need to take your penis out, lift up my skirt, and pick me up and take me to the bedroom. This is the point where my reason was clouded (Tomkat) and this is the point where I need to explore my actions in therapy. Because this guy's behavior was really outrageous.

 

I asked him what makes him think I want to have sex with him. Do you know what his answer was? Because I was wearing a thong and had make-up on. I wear thongs because they are comfortable (I'm sure many women would agree with me). I did not put a thong on because I wanted to have sex. I certainly did not put make-up on for this guy.

[Tomcat33]

Hey Cherry there is a lot of speculation going on here and I think it is distracting away from what really happened.

 

Can I ask you something? When you were at the door and he was about to go how did he take you back into the room? Did he force you back to the room and you were trying to struggle out of his arms or did he pick you up and just ended up "seducing" you back to his ways again?

 

If you were afraid for his forcefulness why didn't you call someone to come to your aid? That is what I don't understand.

[Calisto]

Hey Cherry there is a lot of speculation going on here and I think it is distracting away from what really happened.

 

Can I ask you something? When you were at the door and he was about to go how did he take you back into the room? Did he force you back to the room and you were trying to struggle out of his arms or did he pick you up and just ended up "seducing" you back to his ways again?

 

If you were afraid for his forcefulness why didn't you call someone to come to your aid? That is what I don't understand.

 

What is your point here? You are basically saying that it was all Cherry's fault again and since the guy didn't commit full-on rape under gunpoint, he is completely innocent.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Hey Cherry there is a lot of speculation going on here and I think it is distracting away from what really happened.

 

Can I ask you something? When you were at the door and he was about to go how did he take you back into the room? Did he force you back to the room and you were trying to struggle out of his arms or did he pick you up and just ended up "seducing" you back to his ways again?

 

If you were afraid for his forcefulness why didn't you call someone to come to your aid? That is what I don't understand.

 

We were at the door. I had already asked him to leave. I turned around to unlock it and when I turned back around I saw that he had pulled out his penis. Then he lifted my skirt and said he "wanted one last look". This is when I should have turned back around and shoved him out the door. I kind of laughed, because I thought it was funny that that penis was staring at me!

 

I made a comment along the lines of "oh you just won't take no for an answer, will you?" then he picked me up and took me to the bedroom. BTW, I'm 5.2 and 130 pounds and he was at least a foot taller than me. So we went back there and that's when I was like, ok, fine, we'll do it. I really didn't want to but his overwhelming persistance broke me down. This is where my past has really clouded my reasoning. The truth is I was not very excited at this point. Yes, he had touched me in some areas which caused me to be momentarily "turned on", but was I feeling really horny? No, I wasn't. I went along with it because I just felt like well, this is what I need to do. So no, he did not force me in that sense. He did not have a gun to my head. He did not hold me down. I just felt like, well, this is what I have to do.

 

I am a really confident person in many areas of my life but there are a couple of areas where I severely lack esteem, and this is one of them. I just feel like an overwhelming personality smothers me and I just submit. Not good, I know.

 

I hope this clears things up and I hope that my explanation gets across. Going to the gym, will check this out later.