Art_Critic Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 It is really up to the individual to decide whether or not they are taking things too far. I think labelling spookie and TT alcoholics is misguided and unhelpful. You are correct.. it is for the individual to decide.. Spookie has posted REPEATEDLY that she is an Alcoholic and the she HAS a drinking problem.. The individual who has the problem has already posted on more than a dozen occasions that she can't control her drinking.. So why is it that YOU continue to tell her that she doesn't have a problem ?? If your words are to be taken seriously then let Spookie's own words define it.. She HAS a problem drinking... Duh !!! and telling her she doesn't is a very misguided and unhelpful thing ..
blind_otter Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 On the other hand, BO and Art are alcoholics who weren't able to come out that other side as easily, so they cannot comprehend someone getting trashed for fun. Look at the issues BO is currently having with her SO. Shadow has no experience with this either, from her own admission. Um, I quit drinking when I was 26. And you still drink heavily and party regularly, so I don't see how you "came out that other side"....yet. If you weren't indulging with the frequency that you do, I would be able to take you more seriously. The fact is - I have seen and heard the same justifications and explanations from alcoholics that I hear from you and Nemo. Verbatim. Interesting coincidence, eh? Also, I fail to see why my SO's alcoholism is an issue of concern or says anything about my own sobriety?
Author spookie Posted June 24, 2008 Author Posted June 24, 2008 I talked with my best friend from college last night and we decided we aren't alcoholics, cause we don't drink alone, only with other people when they're drinking; which just happens to be constantly. This is the same friend who prophecized I'd fail my drug test cause he was convinced I was addicted to marijuana, since I'd been smoking it daily for years and seemed unable to stop. For what it's worth, I stopped when I had to, passed my test, and haven't touched the stuff in about a month, since it seems socially inappropriate here. Alcoholic or not, though, I do need to curb my habit somewhat, cause I'm tired of coming in to work exhausted and hungover.
blind_otter Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I talked with my best friend from college last night and we decided we aren't alcoholics, cause we don't drink alone, only with other people when they're drinking; which just happens to be constantly. Huh. I guess I was never addicted to cocaine, then. I never did it alone. I was always with "friends".
Art_Critic Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I talked with my best friend from college last night and we decided we aren't alcoholics, cause we don't drink alone, only with other people when they're drinking; which just happens to be constantly. Drinking alone isn't an indicator of whether or not a person has a drinking problem. the opposite is also untrue.. because someone drinks alone is also doesn't mean they have a problem either.. It is why a person drinks alone that really matters... A binge drinker who drinks in bars never drinks alone.. but there are millions or Alcoholics that never drink alone and get plastered in front of a bar with the company of others. Spookie.. a person who doesn't have a problem with Alcohol doesn't ask themselves and others if they do.. You have a problem... the extent of the problem is what is in question.. Do you need to seek treatment ?.. I don't know.. only you know for sure... One thing is for sure.. you need to at the very least cut back to not getting drunk or trashed anymore.. If you cannot cut back and cannot drink and remain fairly sober while drinking then you are not in control of your drinking and should seek treatment of some sort.. AA for example...
whichwayisup Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I talked with my best friend from college last night and we decided we aren't alcoholics, cause we don't drink alone, only with other people when they're drinking; which just happens to be constantly. But you know your behaviour changes when you're drunk. You do and say things that you wouldn't do sober. It's obvious you can't handle drinking - Something in you changes. Some people are happy drunks, some are mean and some completely lose themselves and become a stranger, some do stupid things and put themselves in dangerous situations. This is your life and yeah you may not 'be' an alcoholic in the sense of having withdrawal and feeling the need to HAVE to have a drink daily, but when you drink it's out of control so you do have a drinking problem. Go to AA, get a sponsor, and change your lifestyle otherwise it will ruin you.
Nemo Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I talked with my best friend from college last night and we decided we aren't alcoholics, cause we don't drink alone, only with other people when they're drinking; which just happens to be constantly. Definitely. There's no way you're alcoholics. Just young people having a good time. It's the youth culture to enjoy life to the full, and party like there's no tomorrow. Those things certainly don't make all young people alcoholics - how ridiculous. This is the same friend who prophecized I'd fail my drug test cause he was convinced I was addicted to marijuana, since I'd been smoking it daily for years and seemed unable to stop. For what it's worth, I stopped when I had to, passed my test, and haven't touched the stuff in about a month,Yes, giving up was almost effortless. This is the case for the vast majority of people in their early twenties. They can alter their behaviour at the drop of a hat, and turn course on a dime, because they're so resilient. It's a fabulous time that comes but once in a life, and you should be taking full advantage of it. Alcoholic or not, though, I do need to curb my habit somewhat, cause I'm tired of coming in to work exhausted and hungover.Like ProdigalPrincess said, I still party but no longer as hard, I simply no longer have the desire. This too will eventually happen to spookie, it'll just wear thin after awhile. Please try to relax, and enjoy yourself. You seem to be very self-aware, and too much analysis is not helpful. This is the time in your life for no regrets, and to do what feels good. Oh soooo good...
Art_Critic Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Definitely. There's no way you're alcoholics. I'm curious... I haven't said she was an Alcoholic or not as I don't know her.. but I have said she has some drinking problems which is obvious.. How is it that you can say there is no way they are Alcoholics ??. What are you basing this diagnosis on ??.. There is a fairly good chance that she has got some issues with Alcoholism.. She isn't drinking like a 22 year old drinks and by telling her without a doubt that we are all wrong and she is just going thru a phase could very well be a very dangerous method of helping someone..
Nemo Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 She isn't drinking like a 22 year old drinks and I think she's drinking exactly like a 22 year old drinks. You have to consider the circumstances - she has a well-paid job, no rent, and the company is paying for as many drinks as they want. This is a progressive company that knows there is no harm in having fun, and it's actually very beneficial to encourage their employees to engage in social activities. Anyway, we can all tell that spookie and TT are very much in love, and drinking is just one of many ways of recovering from a hard, fast day at the sharp-end of corporate life. It's a great way to chill out, relax, unwind, and prepare for another hot night of uninhibited passion. It's all good.
blind_otter Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 You have to consider the circumstances - she has a well-paid job, no rent, and the company is paying for as many drinks as they want. This is a progressive company that knows there is no harm in having fun, and it's actually very beneficial to encourage their employees to engage in social activities. Anyway, we can all tell that spookie and TT are very much in love, and drinking is just one of many ways of recovering from a hard, fast day at the sharp-end of corporate life. It's a great way to chill out, relax, unwind, and prepare for another hot night of uninhibited passion. It's all good. Just for curiosity's sake - what would you consider to be "problem drinking" (if you even believe such a thing exists)? Also, I had no idea one could be considered "very much in love" after knowing someone for only a handful of weeks. How interesting.
Calisto Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I would think if you are an alcoholic, drinking alone a lot would be a very telling sign because it would show that you were more than just a social drinker, you really didn't have control over the drinking. If spookie had true alcoholism, she couldn't stay away from it and would be buying it and stashing it in her hotel room and drinking all the time. The fact that she doesn't drink alone shows that she can stop if she wants to. Oh and I don't claim to be an expert and I haven't really been (knowingly) around alcoholics.
blind_otter Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I would think if you are an alcoholic, drinking alone a lot would be a very telling sign because it would show that you were more than just a social drinker, you really didn't have control over the drinking. If spookie had true alcoholism, she couldn't stay away from it and would be buying it and stashing it in her hotel room and drinking all the time. I am a recovering alcoholic. I never drank alone. I didn't stash alcohol in my house. I didn't drink all the time. This statement speaks volumes about how little is truely understood about alcoholism, by the general public. And it is how I managed to maintain my alcoholism and addictions for so many years, by justifying and telling myself I really didn't have a problem because I didn't do x, y, or z.
Art_Critic Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I think she's drinking exactly like a 22 year old drinks. You might be right.. I drank like that when I was 22 ......................but...........................I'm an Alcoholic
Art_Critic Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 If spookie had true alcoholism, she couldn't stay away from it and would be buying it and stashing it in her hotel room and drinking all the time. The fact that she doesn't drink alone shows that she can stop if she wants to. She can't stay away from it... She probably has it in her hotel room... She does drink to excess all the time.. every day... Not drinking alone is not a gauge of being an alcoholic or not.. it simply doesn't play a role in telling if someone is or isn't a problem drinker.. I would add though that a drinker who does drink alone has to look at why in order to see if that is a tell tale sign of problem drinking.. I never hid my drinking or bottles until I admitted to my friends and family that I had a problem... Then I hid my drinking because I had to show them I quit.. but I never did...
Nemo Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 This statement speaks volumes about how little is truely understood about alcoholism, by the general public. No, I think it speaks volumes about how much has changed, yet the general public hasn't been able to move with the times. So much is assumed about people today, and it seems that almost everybody is laying claim to be an expert, and to slap a label on a person. I think it's part of the "instant" and "impatient" culture that appears to be here to stay. Labels for everything, and everything must have a label. Well, I'm sorry, but outdated views will probably never again become mainstream. The vast majority of young people enjoy pushing their drinking to the limit, and this process of learning about oneself is a vital step towards becoming a balanced and responsible individual. If one isn't aware of their limits, then they are destined to always be confined below their potential. And that would be a disaster for all young people. I just hope that the preaching will stop. It's the usual self-righteous, "do gooder," holier-than-thou mentality.
Art_Critic Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I just hope that the preaching will stop. It's the usual self-righteous, "do gooder," holier-than-thou mentality. You're preaching that the preaching stops There is nothing self righteous about my posts or my trying to "help" spookie.. She has posted more than once about her quest in trying to figure out if she has a problem.. in fact she has even started other threads about it.. This seems to be a continuing question in her mind that begs looking further into and calling people who disagree with you nemo " do gooders " and holier than thou is just plain insulting.. You know better than that !!!
shadowplay Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I don't think any of us are concerned with starting a large cultural debate or tagging whole groups of people. We're merely looking out for the well-being of one person, Spookie. We all want to see her do well and succeed.
Nemo Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 She has posted more than once about her quest in trying to figure out if she has a problem.. in fact she has even started other threads about it.. Yes, it's the ones that don't think they have a problem that you have to worry about. And that's not spookie. She's just reacting to all the labelling going on in society today. People are planting these doubts in her mind, when there is absolutely nothing to worry about. It's naked jealousy. Her lifestyle is completely normal for her age.
Nemo Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 We're merely looking out for the well-being of one person, Spookie. We all want to see her do well and succeed. Exactly. But we don't want to see her miss out on the time of her life, and the intense fireball of wild, uninhibited fun that is one's youth. That's the only danger here - that she will listen to the hard-line conservatives. The proverbial "wet blankets" who are nothing more than thinly-veiled control freaks.
Art_Critic Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Yes, it's the ones that don't think they have a problem that you have to worry about. And that's not spookie. Actually nemo.. people without drinking problems don't ask themselves or others if they have a problem ... You paint this wonderful picture of her life and her drinking.. like it just started when she got this great job.. You know that isn't true... She has questioned her drinking and drugging for quite a while now... How about helping her instead of enabling her ??
Tomcat33 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I talked with my best friend from college last night and we decided we aren't alcoholics, cause we don't drink alone, only with other people when they're drinking; which just happens to be constantly. Wow you are way misguided. Do you think any of those famous people that end up in rehab do it alone? You don't think most of those people started off binge drinking or doing drugs recreationally socially? I have been to funerals of people that hung themselves, od'ed and just lost the plot and ended up in a mental ward for a while because they repeatedly try to kill themselves due to "recreational" use of substances and alcohol week-ends only. Yet we all hung out and partied socially and went back to our schools or jobs during the week and did it ALL over again the following weekend. None of those people sat at home drinking on their own. But heck it's what you do when you are 20 not to worry "party on. and go hard or go home" Some people are proned to have addictive personalities others not. I partyed REALLY hard in my 20's and then one day hit a wall and said no more. And I never looked back, not so for some of my friends at the time some ended up in rehab time and time again, some are still alcohoilics and of course we lost touch funny how you have very little in common when you no longer share the same interest in partying. A lot came from very wealthy families it was "all taken care of" and under control, doesn't mean they weren't abusive of their drinking or substance use and totally going off the deepend, they WERE. Alcoholic or not, though, I do need to curb my habit somewhat, cause I'm tired of coming in to work exhausted and hungover. Spookie if it feels out of control, it IS out of control. There is a reason why you feel as you do, so listen to YOURSELF.
Nemo Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I partyed REALLY hard in my 20's Exactly. It's a basic rite of passage. Completely normal. Like I said, if you don't take full advantage of this wild, uninhibited time in your life, then you will probably regret it forever. It's a time of profound learning about oneself, and a time of pushing the limits. For those that don't push their limits are destined to be confined within them. Now is the time to party. Hard. Now.
Art_Critic Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Exactly. It's a basic rite of passage. Completely normal. Are you to say that Society is telling her it is okay to drink and party Here is an interesting link Alcoholism is a Disease, Not a Rite of Passage http://www.aa-uk.org.uk/alcoholics-anonymous-reviews/2007/04/alcoholism-is-disease-not-rite-of.html They are talking about teen drinking.. but it still applies Another link: http://alcoholismacoacodependency.blogspot.com/2008/01/alcoholism-is-disease-of-family.html Attitudes in the Home Influence Youth Drinking Even in families where alcoholism isn’t present, permissive attitudes about alcohol can have a profound impact on youth. Though far more kids drink than use illicit drugs, parents are more likely to excuse getting drunk as a “rite of passage.” Unless a car is involved, some just don’t take it seriously.
Tomcat33 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Exactly. It's a basic rite of passage. Completely normal. Like I said, if you don't take full advantage of this wild, uninhibited time in your life, then you will probably regret it forever. It's a time of profound learning about oneself, and a time of pushing the limits. For those that don't push their limits are destined to be confined within them. Now is the time to party. Hard. Now. C'mon Nemo, that is not what I said. NOW is the time to listen to Spookie's question and concerns about her out of control drinking. If she is questioning it who are you or anyone to talk her out of that and to try to stop her from doing that? Would you rather read about how one weekend she fell a sleep in a pool of her own vomit and ended up choking on it and died? And how would you feel knowing she tried to talk to us about this and we just told her "mehhh don't worry about it have another drink!" Please go push your drug advocacy somewhere else and if you really need to discuss the advantages of living a drug filled life then by all means start a topic on that I'm sure people have their share of funny stories on that but I am also positive they have their share of really UGLY ones. Someone is reaching out for help here, let her get the help she seeks and let those that are trying help her do that. It's the responsible and mature thing to do Nemo. PS Nemo I am going to be really blunt with you, this "it is time of profound learning about yourself and pushing yourself to your limits" crap is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. If you want to push yourself and learn more about yourself and really test your limits go volunteer with kids that have incurable diseases. Go to a foreing country in a completely different continent to a culture completely different than yours and spend a few months there and learn to relate to a bunch of people who's language you don't even know or food you can't even recognise, learn a new language, be a volunteer at a home where mentally challenged kids are taught, if you REALLY want to push your limits and find more about yourself THAT's the way to do it. Now, if you want to piss your weekend away talking garbage, and having some fun hazy times and doing stuff you will more than likely regret in the morning, sure!! have as many drug and alcohol enduced weekends as your heart desires. But PLEASE do not pass it off like getting blitz is the only way to build character and to find oneself when in fact all it does id INHIBIT your character and it is the one SURE way to lose your soul. It just doesn't get any more simplistic than that kind of thinking Nemo.
blind_otter Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 NOW is the time to listen to Spookie's question and concerns about her out of control drinking. If she is questioning it who are you or anyone to talk her out of that and to try to stop her from doing that? Would you rather read about how one weekend she fell a sleep in a pool of her own vomit and ended up choking on it and died? And how would you feel knowing she tried to talk to us about this and we just told her "mehhh don't worry about it have another drink!" Please go push your drug advocacy somewhere else and if you really need to discuss the advantages of living a drug filled life then by all means start a topic on that I'm sure people have their share of funny stories on that but I am also positive they have their share of really UGLY ones. Someone is reaching out for help here, let her get the help she seeks and let those that are trying help her do that. It's the responsible and mature thing to do Nemo. PS Nemo I am going to be really blunt with you, this "it is time of profound learning about yourself and pushing yourself to your limits" crap is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. If you want to push yourself and learn more about yourself and really test your limits go volunteer with kids that have incurable diseases. Go to a foreing country in a completely different continent to a culture completely different than yours and spend a few months there and learn to relate to a bunch of people who's language you don't even know or food you can't even recognise, learn a new language, be a volunteer at a home where mentally challenged kids are taught, if you REALLY want to push your limits and find more about yourself THAT's the way to do it. Now, if you want to piss your weekend away talking garbage, and having some fun hazy times and doing stuff you will more than likely regret in the morning, sure!! have as many drug and alcohol enduced weekends as your heart desires. But PLEASE do not pass it off like getting blitz is the only way to build character and to find oneself when in fact all it does id INHIBIT your character and it is the one SURE way to lose your soul. It just doesn't get any more simplistic than that kind of thinking Nemo. Excellent post.
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