Kinda getting fed up with her expecations. Am i wrong ?

[Tomcat33]

She's not going to change. She is old-fashioned, and believes in being courted. You do not agree with this dating principle. So, why are you bothering to date her further so you can still complain about what a princess she is?

 

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Sorry I disagree, she is not old fashioned at ALL, she is a modern spoiled princess that EXPECTS the world from a guy while offering very little in return because she has watched one too many episodes of the Hills and thinks that all women are either Paris Hilton or live in Laguna Beach. And that's not old fashioned at all.

 

I am an old fashioned woman that likes to be courted and likes the man to take charge HOWEVER I show appreciation and I give in return one way or another the man I date NEVER feels taken for granted of. Of course this comes with maturity for some women, and for other women it comes from upbringing, and for other women they will have neither EVER and hence will be a 50 yr old princess expecting a poor sap to bend over backwards for her, just....because.

 

 

Mixwell, sorry I kept calling you Max (don't know why...!?!?) you must dj hence the name, anyway I hear you loud and clear and you are doing nothing wrong here, so chin up and proceed as you see fit, this girl has a hold on you because she knows how to keep you just barely trapped but I think you are being very smart in seeing the big picture long term, and if you talked to her already and she says "it's the guy's role to give and the woman's to take" let her be on her merry way of dillusion because only a CHUMP would accept that attitude no real man would settle for that, so good on ya for questioning things.

[whichwayisup]

I have to ask, how intimate have you two been? Just seems you're both irritated with eachother so soon in this relationship (are you two boyfriend girlfriend and exclusive, or is this still "just" dating) and each of you have certain expectations of eachother.

 

If you do really like her, just spend a day together, talking about stuff. No heated arguments, just honesty and what you both want from eachother. It just might be you both are not well matched.

[mixwell]

No, I gave you logical input. More than once. And that was STOP DATING HER.

 

I am still agog that you are going to continue dating her, even though you have such disdain and bitterness towards her. She's not going to change. She is old-fashioned, and believes in being courted. You do not agree with this dating principle. So, why are you bothering to date her further so you can still complain about what a princess she is?

 

Since you feel she and I think alike on this - take it from me. She will NOT change on this. You feeling that you are worth more than this, or you feeling you don't want to put her on a pedestal, or you thinking she is making you kiss her a**, WILL NOT CHANGE her attitudes on dating.

 

I guess what is so appalling is that you write about her with such underlying venom. It's just chilling to picture you being on a date with her and then thinking and feeling so much hostility towards her. That feels pretty creepy, actually.

 

You also seem to somehow think money spend on a date and who spends it is tied to ones value. Or that you are "devalued" because you are treating her on a date. That is rather twisted logic, no?

 

What I am really starting to get from you is that you are rather insecure, and that you feel that paying for a date is equated with you having to buy her company. I get the vibe that you are not believing she is actually interested in you, but only interested in what you can buy her. THAT is why you keep entwining this money, dating and interest thing.

 

If she doesn't change (which I know its wrong to try to make a person change) then I guess its better to find out sooner rather than later. My mentality when we hang out isn't some underlying hate towards her but more like "this is getting kinda old" mentality. I'm not insecure at all in any aspects of my life but I feel like giving her everything she wants is out of my character and makes me kinda feel like the average chump and no different than the other guys she has dated in the past. Other than this scenario I think what keeps her into me is that I am more of a challenge than other guys because I don't always give into her and I act laid back and don't show 100% interest all the time. I am going to talk to her about it to get this out of the way once and for all. I can take it or leave it so its not a big deal but I'm just disappointed that a girl I could see myself really liking has her mentality (Nothing wrong with her way of thinking but its just not how I view dating)

[mixwell]

I have to ask, how intimate have you two been? Just seems you're both irritated with eachother so soon in this relationship (are you two boyfriend girlfriend and exclusive, or is this still "just" dating) and each of you have certain expectations of eachother.

 

If you do really like her, just spend a day together, talking about stuff. No heated arguments, just honesty and what you both want from eachother. It just might be you both are not well matched.

 

As far as intimacy to make it sweet and simple we F**ked after the 3rd date. Right now we are basically just hanging out/seeing each other. Before giving up I will try to have a serious talk to her. The only thing we seem to not be well matched on is the issue with dating. Other than that we get along great and always have something to talk about. Our sense of humor is almost identical and we really enjoy each others company other than the paying factor (which I tried to remove from the equation to feel it out)

[mixwell]

Sorry I disagree, she is not old fashioned at ALL, she is a modern spoiled princess that EXPECTS the world from a guy while offering very little in return because she has watched one too many episodes of the Hills and thinks that all women are either Paris Hilton or live in Laguna Beach. And that's not old fashioned at all.

 

I am an old fashioned woman that likes to be courted and likes the man to take charge HOWEVER I show appreciation and I give in return one way or another the man I date NEVER feels taken for granted of. Of course this comes with maturity for some women, and for other women it comes from upbringing, and for other women they will have neither EVER and hence will be a 50 yr old princess expecting a poor sap to bend over backwards for her, just....because.

 

 

Mixwell, sorry I kept calling you Max (don't know why...!?!?) you must dj hence the name, anyway I hear you loud and clear and you are doing nothing wrong here, so chin up and proceed as you see fit, this girl has a hold on you because she knows how to keep you just barely trapped but I think you are being very smart in seeing the big picture long term, and if you talked to her already and she says "it's the guy's r ole to give and the woman'sto take" let her be on her merry way of dillusion because only a CHUMP would accept that attitude no real man would settle for that, so good on ya for questioning things.

 

I totally agree with you on her not really being old fashioned. Jilly I know you said you're old fashioned but I really think this girl is saying that as an excuse to get what she wants from a guy and she doesn't really believe in being old fashioned. (My pops actually said "if shes soo old fashioned why did she give it up on the 3rd date". I actually thought that was pretty funny) I don't DJ but I love hip hop music -=). I think the whole its the guys role is a line to make me feel okay about paying for everything and acting like a chump.

 

I think there is a difference between being a gentlemen and offer to pay and then being with a bratty girl that expects to be paid for and demands things.. Thank you all for the input I really appreciate it even if I don't agree with everyones opinions I am open minded and will think about all of the advice given even if I don't agree with some of you.

[sfsassy]

On a first or second date, I do expect that the guy will pay, though I always make a point of offering to pay for at least my stuff. And have money for that eventuality. (Usually the first date is a coffee date, so the date will usually then say something like "if I can't pay $3 for this, we probably shouldn't date!";) When ordering food or suggesting places in the early stages I try to be attuned to the date's general financial situation. By date three or four, I start insisting that I chip in for some of it. How much I end up contributing depends on the guy. I dated a poor guy for three years, and I paid a lot of the time, especially if we wanted to go someplace nice. With my last ex, I honestly think he was a trust fund baby, so even though he wasn't working for half of the relationship, he had a lot of money. I still paid some, just because, but he was uncomfortable with it. By date three or four, I usually have started to feel at least some emotional bond, and it's not so much about courting, so much as getting to know each other in different settings. What I did a lot with my last boyfriiend was he would make dinner (He was an EXCELLENT cook) and I would bring the wine. We stayed at his place, so that meant he would have some for himself for the next night or whatever too.

[AriaIncognito]

I dont think the OP is being all that unreasonable. The only thing he's currently guilty of, is not telling her how he's feeling, and that's the part I think he should address.

 

When you are feeling a certain way, it doesn't mean the other person has ANY CLUE as to how you're feeling. The ONLY WAY to be sure the other person is aware, is to TALK TO THEM. Straight up. If she can't handle this light of a topic, then it's likely she's not going to be able to handle a real relationship anyway.

 

Like other posters, I also think she's a little on the young/immature side, and that in a few years, her views on dating might change.

 

I've dated men who have run the gammut. As a matter of fact, I dont think any of my bfs until in my 30s, actually were "old fashioned" and paid for stuff. Every date in high school and college and in my 20s beyond college, was dutch (even in LTRs). And witih the old fashioned ones I was with in my early 30s, I'd offer to pay, or try to pick up some portion of the nights activities, just to offset. Do I like being taken out and whatnot, sure, who doesn't, do I expect it? No.

 

Another case in point is my current R. We either go out in a larger group, or go out just the 2 of us. When we go out with a larger group, he's never paid and I've never wondered why. When we go out just us, he always seems to pay, and I'll try to cover something else (like movie tickets or something). In this day and age, it's a little different. I think back in the day, the men paid because they were the ones that had incomes. Now, we both have incomes, so while it's very nice if the man is "old fashioned" and believes he should be paying, it certainly shouldn't be presumed or expected by the woman.

 

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to send me the change. :-)

[Tomcat33]

I totally agree with you on her not really being old fashioned. Jilly I know you said you're old fashioned but I really think this girl is saying that as an excuse to get what she wants from a guy and she doesn't really believe in being old fashioned. (My pops actually said "if shes soo old fashioned why did she give it up on the 3rd date". I actually thought that was pretty funny) I don't DJ but I love hip hop music -=). I think the whole its the guys role is a line to make me feel okay about paying for everything and acting like a chump.

 

 

LOL I think your dad totally rocks!!! He was so right in making that comment. I love that you talk to your dad about this, no one will give you better advice than your own dad, to a certain point of course. I think it's great you have this kind of connection with him. I have the same connection with my folks and when I was in my teens and on they opened my eyes up to a lot too.

 

Anyway, I think what bothers me most about this chick is that she expects all of this and makes you feel like she expects it and I think that in itself shows a lot of disregard for you as person and as a man and her disregard is something that she doesn't even fully comprehend. She knows that she needs to expect this of you but she can't really justify why and this will carry over in other areas of your relationship. Don't get me wrong I am all for the guy paying and courting a woman, I do like it when a man takes charge like that, and I will be completely honest if a guy ever asked me to go dutch a date I would prob never see him again, it happened to be once and it completely turned me off.

 

 

I can imagine it is turning you off to see this girl be so demanding in what she wants and to offer nothing in turn to make you feel appreciated.

I don't know you but I get the sense that a "thank you for the drinks I had a lot of fun at X" or "wow the food here at this restaurant is soo yummy, what a great idea to come here thanks for dinner" or "let me come and get you tonight" would go a LONG way in terms of what you would give her in return. Comments like that serve as fuel to actually make you work harder at looking for more ways to impress her because you love seeing the object of your desire so happy. But if everything you do is just expected and even when you do it it's still not recognized what the heck is the point of trying hard?

 

See when guy feels appreciated he will give to no end, he won't be calculating what he is spending he just does because he loves impressing the object of his desire, it is such a basic premise that this girl isn't aware of yet. She is still very young so she prob doesn't know better and no one has taken the time out to open her eyes to this. all she knows is that she needs to receive because she is female. Not sure who put these ideals in her head but it's too bad.

[sfsassy]

I dont think the OP is being all that unreasonable. The only thing he's currently guilty of, is not telling her how he's feeling, and that's the part I think he should address.

 

When you are feeling a certain way, it doesn't mean the other person has ANY CLUE as to how you're feeling. The ONLY WAY to be sure the other person is aware, is to TALK TO THEM. Straight up. If she can't handle this light of a topic, then it's likely she's not going to be able to handle a real relationship anyway.

 

Like other posters, I also think she's a little on the young/immature side, and that in a few years, her views on dating might change.

 

I've dated men who have run the gammut. As a matter of fact, I dont think any of my bfs until in my 30s, actually were "old fashioned" and paid for stuff. Every date in high school and college and in my 20s beyond college, was dutch (even in LTRs). And witih the old fashioned ones I was with in my early 30s, I'd offer to pay, or try to pick up some portion of the nights activities, just to offset. Do I like being taken out and whatnot, sure, who doesn't, do I expect it? No.

 

Another case in point is my current R. We either go out in a larger group, or go out just the 2 of us. When we go out with a larger group, he's never paid and I've never wondered why. When we go out just us, he always seems to pay, and I'll try to cover something else (like movie tickets or something). In this day and age, it's a little different. I think back in the day, the men paid because they were the ones that had incomes. Now, we both have incomes, so while it's very nice if the man is "old fashioned" and believes he should be paying, it certainly shouldn't be presumed or expected by the woman.

 

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to send me the change. :-)

I'm not quite as hardcore as you I think. The first two dates I consider more courting, and I like when guys pay for the date. (Always make a show of offering though, as not offering just seems rude to me. I also thank them profusely.) I can't remember anyone ever taking me up on the offer for help in the early dates. I wouldn't have a problem on the second date with me chipping in, though may consider it a yellow flag, if someone took me up on it on a first date. In later dates, if I pay, he or we split it there, that is it. I had a terrible experience where sometimes my ex (this was long, long ago) would pay at the places we went to and said I could pay my half later , but then would have it exactly his mind down to the penny what I needed to pay back. So when he said "pay me $17.23 later on" and I gave him $17.22 later on, he would harrass me for the penny! Whereas when I paid like that, I would round it down to the nearest dollar. The thing is he was staying at my place, downstairs for free, (No sharing of ANY bills, long story on how that came about, lol) so he could afford to not be that stingy . He never took me out anywhere either, lol. He asked me for 5 cents back when I kicked him out. (After I had told him how selfish he was! Not just because of that though. Way to confirm that view!) Ever since that lovely experience, I told other guys that whoever pays, pays, end of discussion! If someone wants to go halfies, I do it right there at the venue. It only takes a couple of extra miutes, and saves me headaches later on! I have found other guys aren't quite as anal as him either. Usually they round it down like I did or round it down at least a bit, to the nearest 5 or 10 cents. Haven't thought of that in ages! I have never seen another guy get mad at me for not having exact change. At least I have moved on from that jerk! (Good times, not!) I tend to pay for one event and boyfriends another when I have one, and we go to dinner and a movie, or whatever.

[mixwell]

I dont think the OP is being all that unreasonable. The only thing he's currently guilty of, is not telling her how he's feeling, and that's the part I think he should address.

 

When you are feeling a certain way, it doesn't mean the other person has ANY CLUE as to how you're feeling. The ONLY WAY to be sure the other person is aware, is to TALK TO THEM. Straight up. If she can't handle this light of a topic, then it's likely she's not going to be able to handle a real relationship anyway.

 

Like other posters, I also think she's a little on the young/immature side, and that in a few years, her views on dating might change.

 

I've dated men who have run the gammut. As a matter of fact, I dont think any of my bfs until in my 30s, actually were "old fashioned" and paid for stuff. Every date in high school and college and in my 20s beyond college, was dutch (even in LTRs). And witih the old fashioned ones I was with in my early 30s, I'd offer to pay, or try to pick up some portion of the nights activities, just to offset. Do I like being taken out and whatnot, sure, who doesn't, do I expect it? No.

 

Another case in point is my current R. We either go out in a larger group, or go out just the 2 of us. When we go out with a larger group, he's never paid and I've never wondered why. When we go out just us, he always seems to pay, and I'll try to cover something else (like movie tickets or something). In this day and age, it's a little different. I think back in the day, the men paid because they were the ones that had incomes. Now, we both have incomes, so while it's very nice if the man is "old fashioned" and believes he should be paying, it certainly shouldn't be presumed or expected by the woman.

 

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to send me the change. :-)

 

I have no problem paying for everything but it would be nice to hear a " well since you paid for the movies I'll cover dinner or vice versa" I have no problem paying for everything at times but for someone to expect it to be paid and expect to get picked up all the time seems selfish and uncaring. I don't have any change for your 2 cents sorry ^_^ haha

[AriaIncognito]

I have no problem paying for everything but it would be nice to hear a " well since you paid for the movies I'll cover dinner or vice versa" I have no problem paying for everything at times but for someone to expect it to be paid and expect to get picked up all the time seems selfish and uncaring. I don't have any change for your 2 cents sorry ^_^ haha

 

Yes, a simple thank you wouldn't be all that hard coming from her. Hopefully she'll wisen up, after you talk to her about how you've been feeling.

 

[AriaIncognito]

And I suppose you had no change from my 2 cents because you need it to save up for your next date :-) :lmao:

[D-Lish]

It seems she pulls out the b**chy card really easily.

I don't think I would like it much if someone was trying to tell me what shoes I should wear.

 

Honestly, she does sound like a princess.

You gave it a shot and are now finding out she is who she is and isn't likely to change.

 

Personally, when I date, I like to take some initiative to plan dates and always offer to pay half. But that is just my personal dating style.

 

I think I'd write this one off, regardless of how good the sex is.

[Calisto]

I think she is just inexperienced and has possibly been told by her parents, friends, dating books, etc. that the guy is supposed to make all the effort in dating. She is kind of goofing up by outright telling you it is your job to make all the effort.

She doesn't thank you for dinner, which is rather rude, but she could just be forgetting that.

I do think a talk is in order because now you are intimate and she can drive to see you occasionally and offer to pick up the popcorn at the movie or even offer to treat for a meal every once in a while.