sunshinegirl Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 I was torn about where to post this (addictions? coping?). As I keep turning over every angle of my relationship with my ex, I remember something my counselor asked me about a couple of weeks ago. I was talking about his lack of feeling/empathy/communication in general and she said he sounded a bit narcissistic. Then she asked: "does he drink a lot?" And the answer is, yes, yes he does. If we ever went out for lunch or dinner, he always had a pint, or two, of beer. He's a wine aficionado and would drink 2-3 glasses to my one glass - and we always had wine when we had dinner at home. Sometimes preceded by a cocktail for me and beer for him. He threw back his share of bourbon/whiskey when we were with his guy friends. If we went rock-climbing he often brought beer for the post-climb chill out part. He liked perfecting his cocktail-making skills. I have a hard time recalling any meals we ate together where he DIDN'T have a drink, often two. (Except breakfast.) I can't think of a time when he's turned down alcohol...maybe when he was sick. But he never acted drunk so I didn't think a whole lot about it. He didn't talk excessively about alcohol, it didn't seem to take up disproportionate space in the relationship. I had one or two moments of wondering whether he drinks too much, but because it didn't seem to affect him, I didn't worry that much. The only time it really affected us was when we had sex after he'd had a lot to drink. I didn't like it...he took forever if you know what I mean. Is this nothing and now I'm just making crap up to feel better? Or might his drinking have made him even less able to connect to his feelings/communicate? ...or...???
roghornio Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Doesn't sound like he drinks that much! If you said once he starts he can't stop and his average night out is 8 or 9 pints plus chasers or drinking till he can;t stand fine. I wouldn't worry about it... In factyou shouldn't. Your just torturing yourself looking for an explanation or looking at it from a different angle for an answer. Let it go!!!!!
ioncebelieved Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 I disagree... and each to his own. In my experience the amount you mentioned would be way too much for my liking!!! My ex wife was a drunk, hence why I divorced her and I have never missed her once since we divorced. I put up with it for almost 5 years and she started out by drinking a few a day until it turned into 8-10 a day that I knew about. The amount mentioned is not terribly much in a sitting, but that will increase and increase. Sounds like an alcoholic to me!!! BTW, experts tend to say if you are intoxicated more than (2) times in a calendar year, you are considered an alcoholic. Not sure I quite agree with that, but come to think of it, I do not drink a whole lot.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 20, 2008 Author Posted June 20, 2008 I disagree... and each to his own. In my experience the amount you mentioned would be way too much for my liking!!! My ex wife was a drunk, hence why I divorced her and I have never missed her once since we divorced. I put up with it for almost 5 years and she started out by drinking a few a day until it turned into 8-10 a day that I knew about. The amount mentioned is not terribly much in a sitting, but that will increase and increase. Sounds like an alcoholic to me!!! BTW, experts tend to say if you are intoxicated more than (2) times in a calendar year, you are considered an alcoholic. Not sure I quite agree with that, but come to think of it, I do not drink a whole lot. Wowza! That's a pretty strict definition. I don't know much about alcoholism but have a friend whose ex-husband was what she called a 'functional alcoholic'. When she told me the whole sordid story of their relationship, it made me panic because I thought - geez, maybe E is a functional alcoholic. ie he is perfectly able to manage his life, you barely notice it, he doesn't seem like someone with a problem...but, as I had noticed even back then, he rarely missed an opportunity for a beer or glass of wine. Do you know how things have played out for your ex-wife since your divorce? Sounds like she spiralled downward pretty severely. I'm sorry.
ioncebelieved Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Wowza! That's a pretty strict definition. I don't know much about alcoholism but have a friend whose ex-husband was what she called a 'functional alcoholic'. When she told me the whole sordid story of their relationship, it made me panic because I thought - geez, maybe E is a functional alcoholic. ie he is perfectly able to manage his life, you barely notice it, he doesn't seem like someone with a problem...but, as I had noticed even back then, he rarely missed an opportunity for a beer or glass of wine. Do you know how things have played out for your ex-wife since your divorce? Sounds like she spiralled downward pretty severely. I'm sorry. My ex wife WAS A CLASSIC FUNCTIONING ALKY!!!!!!! I heard that she broke her wrist one time, I am assuming from a fall from being drunk. She remarried and when have only been divorce about 2 years. I do not know the guy she married. I am not sure if she still sucks on suds daily, but I gave her ample opportunity to clean it up. I would never, never again involve myself with a heavy drinker!! Funny tidbit for ya... Through my dating after my divorce, I dated one women that drank more than my wife, that lasted about 3-4 weeks before I kicked her curb wise and I met another women and went on 2 dates and she drank a good bit on those dates and that was enough warning for me to say hell with it!!!
v33 Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 So sad, my ex-gf drank daily to intoxication. She drank before she met me, and it slowly got worse. I look back now to before the split, when she emotionally checked out and I can tell when it happened as she drank so much for the last 6 months she never even came home till I was in bed. Her way of getting over me I suppose. She never thought that it was the reason for me withdrawing from her, neglecting her and generally judging her and commenting on her drinking all the time. She took those as good reasons for leaving me, but she never thought that I did it because of her drinking....I just wouldn't "Accept her as she was!".... Sorry, I can't accept a drunk for a partner. I hear she has cleaned up for the new man...well that's the word on the street. Who knows? Can an alcoholic really just stop drinking one day because they fall in love?
ioncebelieved Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 r. Can an alcoholic really just stop drinking one day because they fall in love? I really do not believe so. The addiction is the first priority in that person's life. Now with that said, if you find someone that you love enough, I assume you could trade in on a new addiction. Glad I do not have that demon to battle.
v33 Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 I really do not believe so. The addiction is the first priority in that person's life. Now with that said, if you find someone that you love enough, I assume you could trade in on a new addiction. Glad I do not have that demon to battle. Well, perhaps thats what she has done. Spends every moment of every day with him, said she loved him almost right away and has a very active sex life now. (I knew far too much about her new life with this guy). So maybe she is just addicted to "him" now. Anyways, not my problem anymore.
ioncebelieved Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Yeah, but I know it tears you up man!!! That is why we are all here!!
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 20, 2008 Author Posted June 20, 2008 iob and v33 it sounds like you dealt with bona fide, easily identifiable alcoholics. I wasn't facing that, myself...there wasn't obvious disruption and I didn't really make any links until my counselor asked if he drank a lot just after we had been talking about his lack of feelings/communication. I guess I still don't know if there are any links there, but maybe I'm just looking for more reasons to add to the list of why it's good he's not in my life anymore. If I could say with some confidence that he had a problem with alcohol, I feel like I could wash my hands and move on. Why his lying and cheating isn't enough to help me get there is something I'm still grappling with. I think I'm still making excuses for his behavior. ("he's a wounded hurting divorcee, he just acted out his hurt on me, the poor little bird")
ioncebelieved Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Well dealing with alcoholics I have much experience in!!! Have several in my family including my dad and I spent about 10 years in law enforcement dealing with them on all kinds of levels, as well as EMS(current profession) taking them to addiction clinics/ rehabs/ crazy hospitals. I know a drunk when I see one!!! Like I stated earlier, when I start back dating if a women appears to drink too much on the first few dates, I am out of there with the quickness!!!
v33 Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 when I start back dating if a women appears to drink too much on the first few dates, I am out of there with the quickness!!! I am going to adopt this stance from now on!
LikeCharlotte Posted June 21, 2008 Posted June 21, 2008 I think that any substance abuse or over use indicates an unstable person. I dated an addict many years ago and since I will not tolerate it. I've met a few decent guys that I dropped very fast because I saw their addiction and knew three things: it was eventually going to hurt methey were not dealing with their own life honestly or soberly and thus would treat me with the same respect (at best) as they have themselvesI had to get out fast without looking back Someone who drinks daily is self-medicating if it is not an addiction. Obviously something is wrong inside and it won't come to the surface anytime soon. Sunshine, he really sounds closed off. I wonder if he endured any abuse or neglect as a child...
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 21, 2008 Author Posted June 21, 2008 Sunshine, he really sounds closed off. I wonder if he endured any abuse or neglect as a child... Interesting you say that! He is SO shut down that a few weeks ago I started wondering that very thing: if something traumatic happened to him at a young age. His parents were fantastic people, I really enjoyed them, but I guess you never really know the inner dynamics/secrets/shame of a family (or their neighbors/friends etc). And yes, I could definitely see a self-medication aspect of my ex's drinking even if it doesn't meet the 'addiction' definition. Man. People are so complicated. Add in the zodiac discussion over in the dating forum, and you get 'oh yeah and he's also a Capricorn' - people apparently known for being distant/aloof/unemotional/entitled. I'd never put much stock in zodiac stuff but those descriptors do fit...
Art_Critic Posted June 21, 2008 Posted June 21, 2008 Interesting you say that! He is SO shut down that a few weeks ago I started wondering that very thing: if something traumatic happened to him at a young age. His parents were fantastic people, I really enjoyed them, but I guess you never really know the inner dynamics/secrets/shame of a family (or their neighbors/friends etc). And yes, I could definitely see a self-medication aspect of my ex's drinking even if it doesn't meet the 'addiction' definition. Man. People are so complicated. Add in the zodiac discussion over in the dating forum, and you get 'oh yeah and he's also a Capricorn' - people apparently known for being distant/aloof/unemotional/entitled. I'd never put much stock in zodiac stuff but those descriptors do fit... Remember sunshinegirl that it isn't up to you to fix them.. The addict and alcoholic need to be responsible for their own behavior..If they are going to quit then they have to do it themselves for themselves..
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 21, 2008 Author Posted June 21, 2008 Remember sunshinegirl that it isn't up to you to fix them.. The addict and alcoholic need to be responsible for their own behavior..If they are going to quit then they have to do it themselves for themselves.. Hi Art, thanks for weighing in. To be clear, we are over and done with and I have made (and will make) no efforts to contact him. I started this thread not to find ways where I might help or fix him (I agree with you it wouldn't be my job!) but to help me come to terms with the ending of our relationship, and I suppose, to assure myself that we would have been a terrible match long-term. Threads like this are a way for me to knock him off the pedastal, knock some common sense into me, and soothe myself. I guess in part these threads are helping me figure out whether there is some serious "fixing" that he needs to do on his own before he can have a truly healthy relationship with anyone (not just me!), or whether we were simply two mismatched people. It feels better to think he needs fixing.
LikeCharlotte Posted June 21, 2008 Posted June 21, 2008 Interesting you say that! He is SO shut down that a few weeks ago I started wondering that very thing: if something traumatic happened to him at a young age. His parents were fantastic people, I really enjoyed them, but I guess you never really know the inner dynamics/secrets/shame of a family (or their neighbors/friends etc).I recently heard stories of a parent child relationship that I consider neglectful and borderline abusive but the child in the relationship is now grown. I don't think he can see it that way because he lost his father years ago. I think that he has not dealt with the negative way he was treated or the loss because the feeling associated with both are in conflict. Losing a parent or loved one makes you want to remember them in a positive light. I think he had not truly dealt with his feelings when his father passed and also wanted to be supportive of his mother so the conflict of his childhood was put away never to be revisited. He is very closed off emotionally now. I believe he is seeking therapy for the first time for other reasons. I can only hope it helps him open up so he can manage his feelings of alienation, frustration and loss. I've known abuse victims of various degrees and I am as well. It is somewhat common for an abuse victim to use drugs, alcohol or some other addiction to distract and self medicate. Many victims are very emotionally guarded. You will probably never know for sure Sunshine but some of my favorite people are Capricorns so my bet is that it is more than likely abuse, neglect or trauma. I know you are trying to resolve your feelings and believe me, I do the same thing and try to cover all the bases. I just hope you keep in mind that there are some things you will never know for sure and no matter what the situation is for him Art is right, he is ultimately responsible for himself. Since you will no longer be contacting him you can only hope that for his own sake he gets healthier rather than repeating the same cycles. You might find a million reasons "why" and I applaud your courage and thoroughness in your quest to understand. When you are through the things you see and resolve while in the midst of this debacle and reflection will be a great comfort for you and you will not worry about what might have been because you have faced each feeling head on. When his ghost comes to haunt you later on you will be prepared tell him exactly what sunshine thinks and where to go.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 21, 2008 Author Posted June 21, 2008 You might find a million reasons "why" and I applaud your courage and thoroughness in your quest to understand. When you are through the things you see and resolve while in the midst of this debacle and reflection will be a great comfort for you and you will not worry about what might have been because you have faced each feeling head on. When his ghost comes to haunt you later on you will be prepared tell him exactly what sunshine thinks and where to go. Thanks for this. Some people tell me to just get over it, who cares, there's no point in speculating. I think I am just wired to need this kind of analysis after a breakup. Once I've turned over every possible angle, I'm generally better able to put things to rest and be completely resolved -- and glad -- the relationship ended. I'm not there yet, but I think I'm making progress. And, oh, what a delicious prospect of one day telling the ghost of eric past to stick it where (this) sun don't shine!!!
Trialbyfire Posted June 21, 2008 Posted June 21, 2008 I don't think there's a formula for being an alcoholic. It's dependency to it, that defines whether or not a person is, regardless if it's one drink or 10 drinks a day. One indicator, albeit not definitive proof, is whether he drinks alone consistently. Another, does he NEED that drink?
ioncebelieved Posted June 21, 2008 Posted June 21, 2008 One indicator, albeit not definitive proof, is whether he drinks alone consistently. Another, does he NEED that drink? ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY!!!! That is a major warning sign for the drunk. Likes to do it alone!
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