t_veron Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 Who you will attract is either another gamer who will also be keeping her feelings under wrap until she decides if you're a keeper or more likely not, since it's only a game, or a girl who has low self-esteem, who gets addicted to the game. Bottom line, this isn't how to generate mature interest/love and for that matter, quality women. It might get you laid though and if that's all you're looking for, keep using this technique. This is 100% true. Yes it works and if you have the patience for games and not commitment then go for it. If you're looking for a healthy relationship you won't attract the right person this way. We want what we can't have but when we get it we get bored and move on. This doesn't work in the long run and I'm assuming most posting here are looking for a relationship and not to play games.
Author CaliGuy Posted June 19, 2008 Author Posted June 19, 2008 Hey CaliGuy, this sounds all too familiar. I think you can place most people you run into in these two categories whether they're friends, family, or relationships. When we're young we just want to party and have fun. When we get older we expect more from the people we have in our lives. Agreed. At 39, I look about 10 years younger so I end up dating women between 25-35. But I am amazed that most of them don't know what they want in life. Maybe I am just attracting mentally unstable women? Lol. I'm in the same boat as you and getting tired of playing "the game". Guess we all want a challenge so we go for the one who's not interested. I'm being concious of that and so when someone pursues me I go with it instead of run the other way. Work through the feelings of "man this is boring" and you never know. Might not work out but you can gain a friend, learn something new, or realize being predictable/boring has it's advantages too.... especially how a little reliability can be nice in your life. I don't chase women anymore. If they feel the need to make me chase, then it's much more of a game than a relationship. I just don't have the desire to do that. And maybe that is part of the issue. I haven't chased anyone since I was in my early 20s. I just grew out of that phase. I think that my directness can come off as "needy" sometimes, but I don't really need anyone. If I meet someone I like and want to spend time with them, I tell them. If that turns them off then all I can think of is "this can't possibly be the right person for me." Sometimes you have to wade through a large pile of coal to find a diamond
Author CaliGuy Posted June 19, 2008 Author Posted June 19, 2008 I'm assuming most posting here are looking for a relationship and not to play games. Definitely NOT an assumption as far as I am concerned. I don't want games, I'm not trying to get "laid." I want a quality relationship that will stand the test of time.
imbewildered Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 Agreed. At 39, I look about 10 years younger so I end up dating women between 25-35. But I am amazed that most of them don't know what they want in life. Maybe I am just attracting mentally unstable women? Lol. Yes you may be, and there are a lot of those to choose from. However you still have your dilemma after several pages of "advice". Your problemm is simply that you are revealing and declaring yourself and your feelings way too early. Some of the people who have replied do not understand the dynamics of attraction BUT they gave advice anyways. The fact remains that women in the main are repelled by guys who wear their heart on their sleeve (I expect a torrent of ranting hostility in reply to this statement) It is unfair in a way that a man who is open and honest with his feelings ends up producing the exact opposite of his intentions, BUT, based on your results, that is what is happening to you. It is wise and skillful to reveal your feelings page by page - this is not some "game" as claimed by a few self important posters here. IT is a prudent strategy with is compatable with HER desire to know you and know about you INCREMENTALLY. Rather than ask women about dating success why not seek out a successful man (or men)in your locality or online, and ask them. YOu are more likely to hear the right advice from them.
Trialbyfire Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 Yes you may be, and there are a lot of those to choose from. However you still have your dilemma after several pages of "advice". Your problemm is simply that you are revealing and declaring yourself and your feelings way too early. Some of the people who have replied do not understand the dynamics of attraction BUT they gave advice anyways. The fact remains that women in the main are repelled by guys who wear their heart on their sleeve (I expect a torrent of ranting hostility in reply to this statement) It is unfair in a way that a man who is open and honest with his feelings ends up producing the exact opposite of his intentions, BUT, based on your results, that is what is happening to you. It is wise and skillful to reveal your feelings page by page - this is not some "game" as claimed by a few self important posters here. IT is a prudent strategy with is compatable with HER desire to know you and know about you INCREMENTALLY. Rather than ask women about dating success why not seek out a successful man (or men)in your locality or online, and ask them. YOu are more likely to hear the right advice from them. I'll just link your own thread for posterity sake! Apparently you bagged a gamer extraordinaire! http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t155306/
Author CaliGuy Posted June 19, 2008 Author Posted June 19, 2008 Yes you may be, and there are a lot of those to choose from. However you still have your dilemma after several pages of "advice". Your problemm is simply that you are revealing and declaring yourself and your feelings way too early. Some of the people who have replied do not understand the dynamics of attraction BUT they gave advice anyways. The fact remains that women in the main are repelled by guys who wear their heart on their sleeve (I expect a torrent of ranting hostility in reply to this statement) It is unfair in a way that a man who is open and honest with his feelings ends up producing the exact opposite of his intentions, BUT, based on your results, that is what is happening to you. It is wise and skillful to reveal your feelings page by page - this is not some "game" as claimed by a few self important posters here. IT is a prudent strategy with is compatable with HER desire to know you and know about you INCREMENTALLY. Rather than ask women about dating success why not seek out a successful man (or men)in your locality or online, and ask them. YOu are more likely to hear the right advice from them. Good advice, TBF. I thought I had been doing it page by page (it hasn't been a "I gotta have you!" type of conversation). It's been a "yeah lets hang out" or "let's do this..." etc. But I agree with you. I just need to temper my enthusiasm a tad more and let things progress naturally. Cheers.
t_veron Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 Rather than ask women about dating success why not seek out a successful man (or men)in your locality or online, and ask them. YOu are more likely to hear the right advice from them. Very well said. I'm also 39 and look much younger and date the same age bracket so this thread is pretty close to home. The only difference is I know by age 30 a women should be very well settled so if she's still flaky, needy, etc it's going to be more of an uphill battle than dating the 25yo who's the same but has wiggle room to adopt better habbits and flexible with you and 5 years to improve bad habits and still have kids at a healthy age and the energy to run after them. I don't listen to women unless it's a question about what another girl's actions might mean. Women have no idea what they want and even when they do they change their minds when they get it. Once you are okay with this it can be draining but cute because they communicate indirectly. The only thing that matters are their actions. The good ones just need support and trust and they usually do the right thing. It's true, a good woman is worth dedicating your life too. Being too open and needy is a turns off the goods ones and the bad ones.
carrotgirl Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 I don't listen to women unless it's a question about what another girl's actions might mean. Women have no idea what they want and even when they do they change their minds when they get it. Once you are okay with this it can be draining but cute because they communicate indirectly. The only thing that matters are their actions. The good ones just need support and trust and they usually do the right thing. It's true, a good woman is worth dedicating your life too. Being too open and needy is a turns off the goods ones and the bad ones. Arf! Arf! What? Arf! Arf! What's that? Arf! Arf! What is it girl? Arf Arf! I don't understand this direct, yet non-verbal communication! t_v, I'd say you're looking for a dog, not a mate, but even Lassie had more character than you ascribe to women. Carrot
Author CaliGuy Posted June 19, 2008 Author Posted June 19, 2008 Being too open and needy is a turns off the goods ones and the bad ones. I might be too open but if there anything I am not, it's needy. Cheers.
Trialbyfire Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 No matter how many games you play or rules you try to follow, dating isn't a science. There will either be chemistry or not. Perhaps that's why certain men get so confused by women? I don't know. What I do know is that more often than not, not having chemistry has nothing to do with the guy involved, regardless if he's chock full of positive traits or not. You can't force chemistry. The challenge is finding the right person to mesh with.
audrey_1 Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 I applaud you for being competent. However you have taken over the "management" of his personal issues in believing that you can do it better that he can. THese were HIS problems , THere is a huge difference between "support" in which you stand beside him while he works on his own difficulties and "taking over" in which you "manage and direct " his affairs for him while he watches from the sidelines. Which of these two appoaches more closely resembles YOUR methods ? In any case he has you in the FriendZone - not a great place to be for a "smart and capable " woman like you.. No, no, I'm not managing his affairs. But I did "support" him, and now he's standing by to see how it works out. And it will be up to him to manage any and all from that point. I simply collaborated. But if my "support" isn't even welcome, then this is not the type of relationship I want, so it would be better to be friends. I'd prefer a stronger man than this in an LTR.
Adamagnet Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 Anyone else having Seinfeld flashbacks? George: "Oh, what's the point? When I like them, they don't like me, when they like me, I don't like them. Why can't I act with the ones I like the same way I do with the ones I don't like?" Jerry: "Well, you've only got another fifty years or so to go before it'll all be over..."
wierdmunky Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 Does anyone else out here experience this? 1. I like someone, I express that I like them, they show little to no interest in return. 2. I don't like someone, I show zero interest in them, they won't leave me alone. kinda just sounds like bad karma lol
t_veron Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 Arf! Arf! What? Arf! Arf! What's that? Arf! Arf! What is it girl? Arf Arf! I don't understand this direct, yet non-verbal communication! t_v, I'd say you're looking for a dog, not a mate, but even Lassie had more character than you ascribe to women. Carrot Cute.... Are you always so pleasant hun? I must of hit a nerve.... Tell you what, because you're here my post doesn't include you because everyone here is trying to better themselves. If you still think I'm a dog because I want to find a girl who's not screwy or into games then ruf ruf ruf.
carrotgirl Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 Cute.... Are you always so pleasant hun? I must of hit a nerve.... I've been eating meat. Tell you what, because you're here my post doesn't include you because everyone here is trying to better themselves. If you still think I'm a dog because I want to find a girl who's not screwy or into games then ruf ruf ruf. I wasn't saying that you are a dog. I was suggesting that your post likened women to being of somewhat less value than your average dog, which could be flattering if you're a woman that secretly desires to be a somewhat less than average dog. Carrot
daphne Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 I chuckled at both your posts carrot, vern. I think what carrots referring to is your subtle put down of women, as if they are fickle children. Although I thought it was funny, and occasionally truthful in some aspects, it was fairly condescending from a female's point of view. At least mine. Cali, I'm getting both 1 and 2 myself. Mostly 2. Last night a guy called that I thought I had let down gently. A week or two before that I was getting bombarded with telephone calls from a guy I wasn't intersted in and who got my number from someone else. THe one I wanted to be with (that I guess I gave off the 'you have me' vibe) pulled the fickle nonsense. Everyone else chases well past the due date. Good thing I don't want the fickle one anymore. I guess that means he'll be calling soon... There is something to be said about never allowing yourself to be convinced that someone is right for you until WELL after the relationship has developed. And even then, they need to appreciate that you can live without them if they die, cheat on you, neglect or disrespect you. All done very subtly, btw, of course.
D-Jam Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 Thoughts? #1, I agree in the sense of showing interest when you meet someone you like, and not trying to play things off in a "I don't care" or "hard to get" mode. I for one think it's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in dating where we turn away those interested and chase after those disinterested. If it was just a case of someone not being attracted to their looks, personality, etc...then I'd understand. But when I see men and women think someone is awesome, then do a 180 because he/she didn't play hard to get or didn't play aloof, or showed genuine interest...then that's ridiculous. #2, your case is nothing new. I meet women I'm not attracted to, be nice to them, friendly, but not show any interest...suddenly they're all deep in love with me. However, I'll meet a woman I am into, show interest, be friendly, charming, etc...and she's turned off or not interested. I think part of the case is probably the women you and I want are the ones many men want, or many men chase, so they're so used to guys coming on to them that our interest is meaningless unless we happen to be what they want in a man. With the women I wasn't interested in, they don't get a lot of men chasing them, so they tend to take any nice polite gestures as a hope of interest. #3, as much as men like you or I would want to tell a girl that we are attracted to them right off the bat, most women operate on a logic where they want the guy who is more relaxed and not all up on her. Too many guys will put on an act in a hope to get the girl while being relaxed and normal with the women they're not into. You need to be the relaxed and normal person with the women you're attracted to. Be flirty and show them you're not looking for "just friends", but also don't be all heavily interested that she'll think "creepy". Best thing I've learned to do is be flirty and charming with women I like, but don't sit there hoping to get them as a date or girlfriend. Just play it in your mind that she could get creeped out at your interest and run, but you wouldn't care or be bothered by it. You'd more think she's the weirdo and it's her loss. Also don't go out on dates with expectations. Go out only to spend some time with a pretty girl and be sociable. There are going to be women who won't be interested in your relaxed normal self. That's life. Whether it's because of real reasons or shallow reasons isn't the point. The only thing you remember is that's the time to walk and move on to the next woman. Not stick around and think she'll change her mind.
t_veron Posted June 19, 2008 Posted June 19, 2008 I've been eating meat. You trying to turn me on? Good thing I got a new friend cuz I was thinking I had to move from here cuz the crazies are following me again There is something to be said about never allowing yourself to be convinced that someone is right for you until WELL after the relationship has developed. This is where I think there's a disconnect with people. Not sure who's fault it is but being a guy I'm leaning towards women. But seriously, relationships end before they have a chance to develop. We want what we can't have.
mousse Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 I completely agree with imbewildered. Here's a really good article by tom mcknight about that subject. http://www.lovetactics.com/previewart2.php Why It Pays To Play Hard to Get by Tom McKnight According to Bertrand Russell, "Human nature is constructed so that it gives affection most readily to those who seem to demand it the least." This being the case "and I assure you it is" then what hope can any normal human being who intensely craves love and affection have of winning the one they want? Won't their very need for the other person be the thing that turns the one they want away from them? The answer is "NO!" It is not the need for love, which all people inherently feel which drives others away from them, but it is their indiscretion about exhibiting that need. What we need to learn is to make a distinction in our lives between the way we feel and the way we act! Or, in other words, we must learn self-control. Not that we should suppress our emotions to the degree that we deny to ourselves what we are feeling. No, no indeed. We should always realize and be honest with ourselves what we are feeling inside. But we must be discerning, discreet and wise about the things we know about ourselves, which we share with others. Just because you find yourself desperately wanting someone, for example, doesn't mean you should act desperate. But neither does it mean you should try to deny the feeling in yourself. So you feel desperate! So what?! There's no shame in that. Join the club. Millions of wonderful, great, fantastic people who have lived long before you have felt this way. There's nothing wrong with wanting. But what I warn you against is not trying to control the way you talk about it to others. You see, a dog should wag his tail, not have the tail wag the dog. And YOU are the one who ultimately controls your behavior, your emotions should not be doing that. Remember when you were small and felt unhappy and upset about not getting your way? What did most of us do? We would lie down on the floor and act out our emotions by beating our fists on the floor and kicking wildly. But when we got older we learned to put away childish behaviors and hold back, except in the area of romance. What I'm saying is that we need to be mature in this area as well. "But," someone cries out, "isn't it dishonest to not express what you feel?" "No," I answer. "It's a simple matter of growing up." The mature thing to do is to learn to distinguish between feelings and actions. Feel intently, deeply and honestly. But keep your behavior in check. That person who keeps his behavior separate from his feeling ultimately commands the most respect, and love from others. Remember how, as a child, you were instructed that if a big dog came rushing up to you, you must do your best not to show any fear? The reason was that, if you show fear, it encourages the dog to bite you. Well, sadly, the same thing applies in human relationships. If you tip your hand too soon that you're feeling vulnerable to the other person, then it actually invites them to emotionally burn you in some way. So act as brave as you can and keep your feelings to yourself. The key thing to learn from Bertrand Russell's statement is that love is given to those who seem to least demand it. Because the truth is we all need love "desperately" but we can overcome the built-in disadvantage by learning how to act.
OpenBook Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Remember how, as a child, you were instructed that if a big dog came rushing up to you, you must do your best not to show any fear? The reason was that, if you show fear, it encourages the dog to bite you. Well, sadly, the same thing applies in human relationships. If you tip your hand too soon that you're feeling vulnerable to the other person, then it actually invites them to emotionally burn you in some way. So act as brave as you can and keep your feelings to yourself. The key thing to learn from Bertrand Russell's statement is that love is given to those who seem to least demand it. Because the truth is we all need love "desperately" but we can overcome the built-in disadvantage by learning how to act. Uh, if the other person considers my display of vulnerability as an invitation for them to emotionally burn me, then I guess I really don't need their love all that desperately. In fact, if it's all the same to you, I'll just skip it.
mousse Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Uh, if the other person considers my display of vulnerability as an invitation for them to emotionally burn me, then I guess I really don't need their love all that desperately. In fact, if it's all the same to you, I'll just skip it. Read the sentence again, it says if you tip your hand too soon. It means that at the beginning of the relationship, it's better not to express your feelings too early to the other person. It might scare the person, make you look needy and make them lose attraction for you.
Trialbyfire Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Read the sentence again, it says if you tip your hand too soon. It means that at the beginning of the relationship, it's better not to express your feelings too early to the other person. It might scare the person, make you look needy and make them lose attraction for you. Maybe the question should be, why do people have strong feelings for someone they barely know? They've either created a fantasy person or are infatuated with the superficial. In either case, no thanks! I do agree with OpenBook. If anyone burns me when I show them a vulnerability, it doesn't bode well for a continued relationship. Pass...
mousse Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Maybe the question should be, why do people have strong feelings for someone they barely know? They've either created a fantasy person or are infatuated with the superficial. In either case, no thanks! I do agree with OpenBook. If anyone burns me when I show them a vulnerability, it doesn't bode well for a continued relationship. Pass... Tom mcknight isn't saying they will automatically burn you when you're vulnerable but if you express your feelings too quickly, it will show them you don't protect yourself enough and that they have power over you.
Trialbyfire Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Tom mcknight isn't saying they will automatically burn you when you're vulnerable but if you express your feelings too quickly, it will show them you don't protect yourself enough and that they have power over you. Then Tom McKnight isn't talking about a mature relationship, since relationships aren't a game of power! When you play like this, both parties end up to be losers.
imbewildered Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 Read the sentence again, it says if you tip your hand too soon. It means that at the beginning of the relationship, it's better not to express your feelings too early to the other person. It might scare the person, make you look needy and make them lose attraction for you. THis is just good advice. It is very good because it WORKS ,and declaring "how you feel " TOO early in the relationship does not. Men should NOT declare their feelings UNTIL the woman has proved herself worthy of "the talk " and a successful and rewarding bond has formed. The "mousse" understands.
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