Author Kamille Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 Either way, the gift of love is a rare and precious gift. So true, whether it be for a day, seven months or a lifetime.
marlena Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 IMO, this is the downside of thinking too much in relationships. Yes, I think overthinking a relationship- dissecting it into a million pieces, kills the passion and the potential for it to grow.
melodymatters Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 I guess the trick is to grab a hold of your emotions as if they are the horses and you are driving the chariot. Sure, they provide the locomotion, but ultimately you have to be the one in control of what direction they are going in, or you could end up upside down in a ditch on the side of the road of life. Ok, I like the chariot analogy. I do say sensible things to myself. I just feel like my emotions are organic, and that supressing what I'm really feeling, TO MYSELF, feels false and self defeating. But, don't want to thread jack. Kamille, I am sorry I am not of more help, I suffer from this malady myself, so my advice would be worthless !
Trialbyfire Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Ok, I like the chariot analogy. I do say sensible things to myself. I just feel like my emotions are organic, and that supressing what I'm really feeling, TO MYSELF, feels false and self defeating. But, don't want to thread jack. Kamille, I am sorry I am not of more help, I suffer from this malady myself, so my advice would be worthless ! This is one and the same with Kamille and many of us who have had the experience. You do have to pull yourself back, taking it one step at a time, while still trying to keep an open mind to something that might have the potential to be real. Most often it burns out as quickly as it begins.
Nevermind Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Kamille: Are you looking for somebody to fill some kind of void you feel you cannot fill yourself? Is there something you think is missing that only a partner can provide? Are you capable of having "a fling" or are you a "relationship girl"? What is your idea(l) of love?
Author Kamille Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 Just got home from a pleasant walk in the rain, where I was mulling over a few concepts. A friend of mine sent me an article because she thinks her bf might be emotionally unavailable. The article struck multiple cords with me, but it made me wonder if I had a tendency to be emotionally unavailable, because I don't know how to assert my boundaries. I haven't really been abandoned as a child, but was extremely criticized by mother, and then my sister proceeded to make me feel like I was completely socially inapt, often turning the whole group of neighbourhood kids against me (having them spy on me; or publicly humiliating me in front of them and then, when we were alone, telling me it was proof no one liked me). She also constantly reminded me that no boy I fancied could possibly be interested in me. It took me a long time to believe boys could actually be attracted to me. And I think this still plays into how I fall in love. I find it reassuring when a man comes on strong, because it's proof that I am attractive. I need men to convince me they are into me. And even when they do, I still protect my emotions, convinced they will one day realize that I'm not all that they cut me out to be. Both my exes complained that I was cold, that I didn't display love enough, or, even, that I didn't love them love them, the way they loved me. Ok... that's a whole lot to put out there - but I would love to have your comments...
Author Kamille Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 Kamille: Are you looking for somebody to fill some kind of void you feel you cannot fill yourself? Is there something you think is missing that only a partner can provide? Are you capable of having "a fling" or are you a "relationship girl"? What is your idea(l) of love? I can't have flings, but I can date and decide that the guy isn't the right match for me. Before meeting the ex, I had a series of 3 one month dating relationships, where things ended either because the guy wasn't relationship material, the other one was truly just a fling (we both agreed it wasn't going to get serious) and the third one I just didn't feel it for him (and he took it hard). I don't think I am turning to partners to fill a void... I have been, and currently am, very happy on my own. In fact, it's when people turn to me for affection, when people need me that I freak out and back away.
dreamergrl Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 I can't have flings, but I can date and decide that the guy isn't the right match for me. Before meeting the ex, I had a series of 3 one month dating relationships, where things ended either because the guy wasn't relationship material, the other one was truly just a fling (we both agreed it wasn't going to get serious) and the third one I just didn't feel it for him (and he took it hard). I don't think I am turning to partners to fill a void... I have been, and currently am, very happy on my own. In fact, it's when people turn to me for affection, when people need me that I freak out and back away. I think one can be very happy on their own and still have the urge to fill an empty spot, because we ourselves can't make up for the things a relationship brings.
Author Kamille Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 I think one can be very happy on their own and still have the urge to fill an empty spot, because we ourselves can't make up for the things a relationship brings. Ooh yeah: I do have a huge void: I miss having someone who cooks me dinner every other night !
Nevermind Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Mh. So, you think the reason might be because you need the validation that comes with a strong courtship? And once you have it, you can "let your guard down" and therefore fall easily? Could you accept validation that comes in a less intense way?
dreamergrl Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Ooh yeah: I do have a huge void: I miss having someone who cooks me dinner every other night ! Well geeze, casually date a chef lol jk I'm okay with being single myself, but there are times when I wish I wasn't. I'm not displeased with who I am alone, but I have a drive to be with someone.
Author Kamille Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 Mh. So, you think the reason might be because you need the validation that comes with a strong courtship? And once you have it, you can "let your guard down" and therefore fall easily? Could you accept validation that comes in a less intense way? Yeah, strong courtships give me the validation I need to let my guards down. Could i accept less intense validation? I guess it has to do with how I feel loved. There's always been a discretpancy between my own love ideal and my relationships. My ideal love is comfort, easy-going, happy moments with lots of room for each partner, but at the same time, a definite show of love. My relationships have often involved me feeling smothered. Like my partners wanted more intensity then I did. So maybe now that I am starting to be aware of why I fall for triple Es, I can try to find someone who matches my relationship ideal, not my initial need for validation.
carhill Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 IMO, this is an important post.... A friend of mine sent me an article because she thinks her bf might be emotionally unavailable. The article struck multiple cords with me, but it made me wonder if I had a tendency to be emotionally unavailable, because I don't know how to assert my boundaries. So, you recognize your boundaries but have difficulty asserting them? If so, that's good news. You can always learn the assertion part. I haven't really been abandoned as a child, but was extremely criticized by mother, and then my sister proceeded to make me feel like I was completely socially inept,<snip> She also constantly reminded me that no boy I fancied could possibly be interested in me. How are your familial relationships today? It took me a long time to believe boys could actually be attracted to me. And I think this still plays into how I fall in love. I find it reassuring when a man comes on strong, because it's proof that I am attractive. I need men to convince me they are into me. And even when they do, I still protect my emotions, convinced they will one day realize that I'm not all that they cut me out to be. Do you feel that you're worthy of a man's love? Why? Both my exes complained that I was cold, that I didn't display love enough, or, even, that I didn't love them the way they loved me. What was your response to this? How are you with others you love, like family and friends? I ask these questions because I see many similar signs (and feel the distance) with my wife. Always have, but am now mature enough to understand what I was/am sensing better. I'm the polar opposite, over-investing my emotions and psyche. Equally unhealthy. Interesting how life works
carhill Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 My ideal love is comfort, easy-going, happy moments with lots of room for each partner, but at the same time, a definite show of love. I've had fulfilling platonic friendships with women that could be described this way. I enjoyed them immensely but achieved little growth or insight from them. Kind of like a fun vacation. Do you think it's unhealthy for you if someone both supports you and challenges you to grow? What you described in your quote is a lot like the current state of my marriage, sans any overt indicator of love. Perhaps my perspective is skewed by the reality that I lived alone for 20 years as an adult. If I wanted that kind of peace and quiet, I'd be single
Author Kamille Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 IMO, this is an important post.... So, you recognize your boundaries but have difficulty asserting them? If so, that's good news. You can always learn the assertion part. Actually, I have a hard time recognizing and asserting my boundaries. I think I am getting better at it; as I am getting better at accepting that I'm allowed to make mistakes. I often also need time before I can assess how I feel about a situation. My biggest problem with boundaries is that always see at least fours sides to everything (I am a gemini ). How are your familial relationships today? Always complicated. My sister and I have compartamentalized each other. My mother complains, too, that I don't spend enough time with her and my dad, which in turn means that there must be some fondamental problem with me and that I am incapable of happiness (yes she said exactly that to me). See, she is codependant, so she often figures that her unhappiness with a situation is because other people have problems she can help them with. And did I mention I try to go visit my parents at least once a week and call every 3-4 days (and get the spiel above -or at least some comment about what a neglectful daughter I am- when I don't?) Do you feel that you're worthy of a man's love? Why? Tough question. It's easier now for me to answer that I am worthy of love, yet when you phrase it as "a man's love" I somehow choke. I'm going to need more then an afternoon to ponder this one. I guess I don't feel I know what it means to be worthy of a man's love. My first relationships were with men who were unavailable, where I would be stuck in the dynamic of always trying to prove I was worthy of love. My last two relationships are the ones where I set the boundaries pretty high, where they had to come and get me if you will, prove that they were into me before I would let my gard down. I guess I need to find a happy medium. What was your response to this? How are you with others you love, like family and friends? I think friends would describe me as warm and loving. They often say: "you will find someone; you're such a loving person". I don't remember how I responded in my relationship with my ex ex. Perhaps just self-defense: yes I love you! In this last relationship I responded in three ways, which followed each other in the timeline of our relationship: 1) what does it mean? maybe you are right and I don't love you 2) maybe we just don't show love the same way but I do love you and finally 3) please tell me what you need to feel love because I do love you, and I want you to feel loved. He always said he wanted me to be more affectionate, and towards the end I was starting to be more affectionate. Just not in public, which was important to him, but which I found inappropriate. Other then that, he couldn't really articulate what more he needed. Interesting how life works I still think it has something to do with your previous posts, where when you find a good match, then negotiating boundaries isn't as hard as it has been for me in past relationships. There were moments when I shudder thinking about how my ex would ignore my boundaries. I've told this story before, but once, we were at a family dinner, and my ex started kissing me, pinning me against the counter and making me feel incredibly unconfortable (and he knew PDAs made me unconfortable, and he also knew I have an issue with my brother in law, who keeps making sexual jokes about me). My brother in law could see us, as could one of my uncles. I kept telling him (quietly) to stop but he wouldn't. Finally, my father turned around and saw the scene and was like: Woah! leave my daughter alone! Which was when my ex finally let up. He would do the same thing around my friends, to the point where my friends would comment that it made them feel unconfortable.
Author Kamille Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 I've had fulfilling platonic friendships with women that could be described this way. I enjoyed them immensely but achieved little growth or insight from them. Kind of like a fun vacation. Do you think it's unhealthy for you if someone both supports you and challenges you to grow? What you described in your quote is a lot like the current state of my marriage, sans any overt indicator of love. Perhaps my perspective is skewed by the reality that I lived alone for 20 years as an adult. If I wanted that kind of peace and quiet, I'd be single Not at all unhealthy to support and challenge. That tends to be what I offer in a relationship, and what I like to receive in exchange (as long as the challenging doesn't make me feel belittled). I guess my last two exes were, hmmm, too challenging. In my mind, there should be room for support, acceptance and challenge. I shouldn't have to defend myself everytime I make a decision (the case with my ex ex) or everytime I want to spend some time on my own, (the case with ex).
carhill Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Not at all unhealthy to support and challenge. That tends to be what I offer in a relationship, and what I like to receive in exchange (as long as the challenging doesn't make me feel belittled). OK, this is a key issue for me. Often I find my sharing of knowledge, experience and perspective being perceived as belittling, condescending and treating someone "like they are a child". No matter what tone of voice I use, no matter how much effort at self-deprecation ("I'm trying to figure this out too", etc), it still apparently comes across like a father disciplining a child. Weird thing is, I was socialized in an environment where I was both challenged and supported and not abused in any way. I have no wish to control or belittle anyone. So, perhaps, when I'm with someone not socialized in that environment, I have no way of concretely understanding their perspective, especially if they experienced abusive socialization, and therefore always have to catch myself before sharing anything that could be construed as a challenge. For me, that's a lot of emotional work and it overwhelms me. With MC, it's getting better. The funny thing is, for example in the case of my wife, she has no problem challenging me, or offering up a brutally honest opinion, but whenever I reciprocate in kind, I'm "demeaning" her. I don't get it. I take opinions, criticisms and challenges in the context of the entire relationship and process my response based on that totality, where, perhaps, viewed in the vacuum of the moment, they could be considered demeaning. Perhaps that realization gives me insight into how "loved" my wife feels or allows herself to feel. I think she'd be very satisfied with your description of an ideal relationship, especially the part about a lot of space and easy-going. I just described disparate perspectives What I have to get over is that my perspective is "wrong". It's not wrong, any more than yours or hers is. It's just different, and perhaps incompatible. MC has really helped with this stuff. I'm so glad that I can now talk with her about these things in an unemotional (read without anger) and clear way. As a program note, thank you for a great thread. I think introspection and self-analysis are great tools and are one of the reasons LS has been key to my recovery and insight. Hope it works for you too
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