Another porn question...

[Mr. Lucky]

I did it partly because I felt so ignored and unwanted. Back then we had sex maybe 1-2x a month. He started having an emotional affair as well with a woman he met in college (although he'll still never admit this). We fought anytime we were together, and we hardly ever even saw each other back then (this was a few years ago). I also did it in part for revenge. I was angry and hurt with him over the EA and the pornography.

 

I guess I would posit in my own gentle way that he feels the same way now. Ignored and unwanted in his mind, his needs perceived as unmet, he therefore justifies what he does. Perhaps he also seeks vengeance based on his anger and hurt.

 

It's a huge challenge in a marriage to give our partner the same rights and considerations we feel are due us. I struggle with it every day as it's so easy to feel that you're just right and your spouse is just wrong. I brought your previous indiscretion simply to suggest that it's not so black and white...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

But isn't the woman getting excited by the vibrator? The fact that there's not a picture of a real person (although who knows, right?) in front of her at that moment of orgasm seems like a meaningless distinction to me. Maybe your BF could whack off to one of those animated or computer generated images like Lara Croft, Tomb Raider. Would that be OK with you since she's not a "real" person ?

 

Well, since it's obvious I think wanking it to porn is somewhat pathetic, wanking it to a cartoon is like scraping the barrell.

 

More seriously, I don't think any of my boyfriends looked at cartoons and masturbated. But who the heck knows with men. I think something like Lara Croft, helps to define an idea of a woman that isn't reaslitc. And as much as men say that isn't what they want of expect, the truth is they do want it on some level and would die happy getting it. And if we have gotten to the point where men are honestly saying "I'd have sex with that 3d image"...you got to double think about how we define sexuality.

 

I just don't see how a dildo is compared to the millions of different women men fantasize about in larger then life scenes. Women that have personalities, have a face, have different assets that make them intersesting enough for a man to want to few and visualize. That is why I think male sex toys are comparable to female sex toys. that is an object on object situation. Comparing an object with no human personality to something that has a human personality doesn't seem like an equal comparison.

 

 

Bottom line Jersey, you simply lack faith in yourself and your own abilities within a relationship.

 

Yeah, unfortunetly I do lack a certain amount of faith in myself. I use to be confident in myself. Thought I was pretty cute. But after awhile you get beat down. I am sick of being in relationships where no matter how hard you try, it's never enough for men. What is the point in trying. They are always looking at something else. And something else that is "bigger" and "better" then anything realistically he is going to have. How do you have something that is a "fantasy" that is "bigger and better" then real life, and go back to being happy with just real life? I am not the only woman that feels this way. Hence all the women that come here that are either hurt and don't want it part of their lives or even the women that are hurt but manage to "compromise" on it. Porn doesn't make some women feel secure in their relationships with men sometimes. Since porn pretty much repersents the direct opposite about what a relationship is suppose t obe about. How do men expect women to trust his word when his actions are conflicted? He says he wants a loving monogomous relationship but when you have your back turned or as soon as you aren't there to meet his needs, he is dipping his hand in the cookie draw. It is over whelming. I suspect as I get older I will struggle with it more. Because most men, even as they get older, are viewing porn of 20 year old girls, not their peers. So I don't understand how men don't get that this can make women feel replaced and unattractive and undervalued. The lure of porn for men is stronger then their willingness to understand the damange porn can cause for alot of women.

 

 

And that surprises the heck out of me, since you seem intelligent, thoughtful, witty and fun. JMHO,

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Thanks...this quite suprised me considering how volatile I am on here and am with you when I disagree with you.

 

 

If men made porn movies about intelligent, thoughtful, witty women we all might be in a better place. But they don't.

[Ruby Slippers]

Hey, Jenn. I completely agree that this is his problem and his addiction that only he can solve. And it sounds as though you have been very patient. But this did jump out at me:

 

So not even two days went by, and not only did he go and look at more porn last night as soon as I went to sleep, he deleted it this time because now since our talk he knows I was looking. Which he said he was not going to do.

 

I know I said he could look sometimes, but I thought maybe, just maybe after a big discussion like this he could go a week?

As emotional and difficult as it is, I think you have to give him some time to adjust after you reach an agreement. Maybe he won't adjust, but I bet he's much more likely to do so if you're not keeping close tabs on him. I also agree that it's important to acknowledge the positive changes he's making, rather than criticize him for slip-ups and shortcomings. I don't see this going anywhere with more guilt and negativity. If he's going to find his way out, he's going to need support, love, and understanding. Maybe it won't work, but it's worth a shot.

[Jennifer26]

Hey, Jenn. I completely agree that this is his problem and his addiction that only he can solve. And it sounds as though you have been very patient. But this did jump out at me:

 

 

As emotional and difficult as it is, I think you have to give him some time to adjust after you reach an agreement. Maybe he won't adjust, but I bet he's much more likely to do so if you're not keeping close tabs on him. I also agree that it's important to acknowledge the positive changes he's making, rather than criticize him for slip-ups and shortcomings. I don't see this going anywhere with more guilt and negativity. If he's going to find his way out, he's going to need support, love, and understanding. Maybe it won't work, but it's worth a shot.

Ruby, you are right.

 

Since Monday, when we had our huge blowout, I have not gone back to look at what is in his computer history. I'm not saying that I will never look, but I would like to stop focusing on it so much.

 

I started some individual counseling, because I do have some self esteem issues that need to be addressed. And most of these issues have very little to do with him viewing pornography. It doesn't help, but it isn't the cause.

 

I also purchased a book yesterday that is for spouses of sex addicts, and it outlines ways to deal with the behavior and what to do and what not to do. I am hoping to gain some further insight on ways I can make this situation better. I am hoping it gives me some strategies to convince him to seek counseling out for himself.

 

My husband does have a sexual addiction, and as understanding and patient as I may be, I know he has to address it if we're ever going to be successful in our marriage.

[Mr. Lucky]

Thanks...this quite suprised me considering how volatile I am on here and am with you when I disagree with you.

 

 

If men made porn movies about intelligent, thoughtful, witty women we all might be in a better place. But they don't.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I can't sense the obvious committment you have to your position and feelings. You seem to have some history that makes you feel strongly about the parameters of relationships - I respect those kinds of hard-earned battle scars, have a few of them myself !

 

Unfortunately, I think that thoughful, intelligent and witty dialog and plot lines won't be coming soon to mainstream porn. Those qualities would probably interfere with porn's main purpose...

 

Mr. Lucky

[The Collector]

So Jersey_Shortie, if your boyfriend jerked off to the new Sex And The City movie (featuring older, not so hot, borderline witty and intelligent characters) that'd be preferable or even acceptable to you?

 

And everything bad you say about porn can be applied worse to vibrators and dildos - they are not even human. They are a replica sex organ devoid of all personality and intelligence.

 

Another point worth mentioning - men masturbating = shameful, sad, a problem. Women masturbating = sexy & empowering!

[Jersey Shortie]

Unfortunately, I think that thoughful, intelligent and witty dialog and plot lines won't be coming soon to mainstream porn. Those qualities would probably interfere with porn's main purpose...

 

 

To treat women like less then human beings and make them feel like crap about themselves and not really learn anything about what real woman actually like and need?

 

 

 

So Jersey_Shortie, if your boyfriend jerked off to the new Sex And The City movie (featuring older, not so hot, borderline witty and intelligent characters) that'd be preferable or even acceptable to you?

 

What would be preferable to me is men having more self control and extending the kind of respect that men themselves want, to women. How do you expect women to trust men if men's most favorite media refers to women in four letter words and doesn't exactly treat them as human beings? I've asked this question a dozen times and men love to ignore it when directly asked. Men want women to be more sexual and in the same breath we get put down for it as well.

 

I also think porn would be more tolerable, if it was less idealized and more about real sex. But it's not real. And women already have body issues. And porn forces more crap and perceptions about what a woman needs to look like for men to like. It's not really very promising to look towards the future of husbands everywhere who are aging with aging wives and girlfriends to know that 18 year old with implants trumps every time. Will you justify it? I am sure you will ..your a "man" after all and it's okay to do that right? But where and when does a man draw the line? Or is the glow of the computer screen just too much of a lure? where does that leave all those women in the world that build a life with a man and even has his children? Not in a really nice place. There will always be a new crop of porn starlets for "committed" men in relationship to get a happy over. I guess I just find something completely sad and disheartening about that for women and even for men. Neither sex wants to be replaced for things like money or age or looks..or whatever. But porn is exactly that. A replacement of a man's SO to give him the variety he wants and to give it to him in the 18-25 age range. I don't see how you couldn't understand as a man, how that can be threatening and hurtful.

 

 

 

And everything bad you say about porn can be applied worse to vibrators and dildos - they are not even human. They are a replica sex organ devoid of all personality and intelligence.

 

Exactly! They don't have a personality and intelligence. Porn movies are filled with women that have different personalities and different essesnces about them. Hence the reason men are so interested in them. It's easy to not be threatened by something that has no personality in it.

 

 

Another point worth mentioning - men masturbating = shameful, sad, a problem. Women masturbating = sexy & empowering!

 

I find that ironic considering the way women are shamed in porn. They are all "sl*ts" or "wh*res". Men have been shaming women about their sexuality much more and much longer then women have shamed men about theres. It's actually something men use to control women. Men's sexuality is much more free and men are much more able to get away with things that a woman can't. So what you are saying doesn't jive. Perhaps if men treated women more like equals, and not just an inflatable doll there to please him, things would be a little different.

[Ruby Slippers]

I also think porn would be more tolerable, if it was less idealized and more about real sex. But it's not real. And women already have body issues. And porn forces more crap and perceptions about what a woman needs to look like for men to like. It's not really very promising to look towards the future of husbands everywhere who are aging with aging wives and girlfriends to know that 18 year old with implants trumps every time.

My boyfriend told me he likes amateur porn with real sex the best. He also said he hates makeup, implants, dumb shoes, props. He says he doesn't like the spitting, the name calling, or any of that fakey stuff. He told me that what it really comes down to for him is that he loves sex, and in addition to having sex, he enjoys watching real people have sex on video.

 

Just one example to illustrate why your insistence upon lumping all men into one broad category is narrow-minded.

[The Collector]

Ruby Slippers, your boyfriend is typical. Most porn I've seen doesn't throw around terms like slut and whore very much, if at all. There's a market for that, but as I've said before to Jersey Shortie who of course ignored the point, most porn is 'vanilla' and not about shaming or degrading the women involved. Contrary to her repetitive claims, positive terms like 'babe' 'honeys' and 'beauty' are more much more likely to feature in the title than anything mean. Is there a top 100 adult movie list or something that someone would care to examine for misogynistic terms? I bet the vast majority wouldn't be considered hateful in any way.

 

Also 'slut' can be seen as non-pejorative and sexy in the context of an adult movie, if one removes their man-hating blinkers.

[Jennifer26]

JS, my heart truly goes out to you. I think myself, and many other women can relate to how you feel on this subject.

 

For me it is especially hard because I don't fantasize about other men, I do have a sex toy - but I never use it. I'm sure it has an inch of dust on it at this point. For me, my husband has always been enough. He is the only man I care about, the only man I think of when it comes to sex, intimacy, etc.

 

Maybe men and women are wired differently. Men are wired to want to "spread their seed" to as many women as possible. And usually women in this 18-25 age range you mention are best suited for pregnancy and having healthy children. So it makes sense if you look at it from this stand point. Yet, it is hard to accept that when you love someone so much and the two of you have chose to spend your lives together in a monogamous relationship.

 

Truthfully, I don't think humans are meant to be with only one partner. Of course we have higher reasoning and we choose to be in this arrangement, but it seems that nature is constantly reminding us that this isn't how it is supposed to be. And men especially, seem to struggle with having only one mate for life. So they turn to porn for an outlet. In some ways I guess porn can be looked at as a good thing, because it does give men this outlet and probably prevents many from going out and actually physically cheating.

 

It sucks.. but this is the way it is. I don't think it is ever going to change. Men's desire for sex, and not just sex, but sex with different women is overwhelming. It is probably up there with his need for food.

 

We live in an especially difficult time now with internet pornography as well. I wish I lived in the days when what I was up against was a nudey magazine. Now, with a couple of clicks, my husband can see anything and everything his heart desires. It is the crack-cocaine of pornography and it is becoming such a problem for married couples. Pornography addiction is through the roof these days and message board after message board is filled with women pouring their hearts out over how upset they are that their husbands are devoting so much time to viewing the pornography.

 

Not only that, but I see so many women complaining about the same thing I have complained of - that their husbands won't even come to them for sex on a regular basis anymore because they are so wrapped up in the online porn. Men not wanting to sleep with their wives, it used to be the other way around.

[trust]

Trust(?),

Ummm, what are you talking about? This sounds like a very strange pseudo-philosophical rant that doesn't fit in this post and leads NOWHERE. First of all, I just asked for some advice. I didn't keep posting and responding to everyone who added a thread, so that should be an indicator that I was reading and listening to the advice. As a matter of fact the constructive advice actually helped. For MY husband, yes, I wonder why he's jacking off to porn and looking at it every time he's on the computer. As I stated, I have a high sex drive, I'm attractive and I'm ready to have sex all of the time and he still looks at porn. I don't like it. Also if you bothered to read the other post I made, you would have seen the part where I said that he got mad about me making a comment about another man on television, mind you, I was NOT RUBBING ONE OUT to another man as he's done to other women in porn movies. My issue is that it's supposed to be okay for him to look at other women, I'm supposed to be fine with that because it's "natural" and he's a man and all that other garbage. The bottom line is that I have the right to feel the way I feel. YOU don't have to agree with it, but there are many women who do not like when their partners look at porn and there are those who simply don't care. I just happen to be one of the people who care. It's not about trying to "recruit" people into my camp, I was just stating how his habit made me feel and seeing the advice people had to offer...that's it. And if the post of yours that I just quoted was your attempt at trying to offer your own version of "beneficial help" please don't do it again. It wasn't helpful.

 

1.) I back tracked all of my posts in this thread, and I failed to see where I was quoting you or even differing in your point of view. What the h*ll are *you* talking about? Just that alone tells me how confused you are. Get a grip on your emotions chic. Repeat after me: I'll take a deep breath before I type...I'll take a deep breath before I type.

 

2.) If I ranted, then just exactly what do you call that crap you typed out?

 

3.) Please don't offer help that disagrees with your "opinion?" Even if I did, which I didn't, isn't that exactly what you just asked me not to do? And if I did disagree with you, what exactly are you going to do about it, other than get over it?

 

4.) If you're still confused... don't you owe me ten dollars?

 

***** I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID ******

[Ruby Slippers]

JS, my heart truly goes out to you. I think myself, and many other women can relate to how you feel on this subject.

Great post, Jenn, and I agree with all of it.

 

I am beginning to accept that for a woman who wants to be in a long-term committed relationship with a man, being with a guy who doesn't cheat but who looks at porn from time to time in a non-addicted way is about the best you're gonna get. I am pretty sure it will always make me sad to some extent, but I think it comes with the territory in heterosexual relationships and I have to learn to deal. It is probably true that men harbor a certain amount of sadness from feeling that they never quite live up to what their women really want, or something similar. That's just the way it is.

[Jennifer26]

Great post, Jenn, and I agree with all of it.

 

I am beginning to accept that for a woman who wants to be in a long-term committed relationship with a man, being with a guy who doesn't cheat but who looks at porn from time to time in a non-addicted way is about the best you're gonna get. I am pretty sure it will always make me sad to some extent, but I think it comes with the territory in heterosexual relationships and I have to learn to deal. It is probably true that men harbor a certain amount of sadness from feeling that they never quite live up to what their women really want, or something similar. That's just the way it is.

Ruby,

 

I brought up the issue of porn with my counselor this week, and even he told me to try to not take it personally. He said men will look, and it doesn't mean they want to cheat, or that they don't love you. And I do agree with this.

 

I mean, if there was a hot, available woman offering sex to my husband - I guess I do have my doubts if he would pass it up. I was reading a study that came out recently about men seeing women in bikini's and how it clouds their judgment and makes them impulsive. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366102,00.html

 

So if a really beautiful woman was offering sex, would he be able to think about me, our relationship, and use good judgment? I don't know.

 

I guess the porn, other than the fact it decreases his sexual encounters with me, isn't such a big issue. What scares me more often is the thought of him seeking out more than the porn. I guess the porn is just a reminder to me that he does enjoy looking at other women and makes me question things further.

[Jersey Shortie]

That is "just the way it is", but that doesn't mean that is the way it has to be. The unfortunte thing is women just slink off with their tail tucked between their legs, continuing to be sad about it but dealing with it anyway because under it all they do love men. And the thanks wome nget for their efforts is the guys go on merrily using the women in porn and their own woman interchangably. She grows older with him, supports him, has his babies, and at the end of the day 18-25 year old girls trump all for men. Well it's discourging and pretty much hopeless because men don't care. They just plain don't care to understand and they just plain don't care to be compasionate and think about how it can effect their woman at home. The real one at home that is suppose to mean more to him then those other women but turns out that she is the last one that gets defended or stuck up for over his pornography. That's what it has come down to today in this day and age but that isn't how it has to be. I think in history if the statement were made "that's just the way it is"..nothing would have ever changed. And just because something is "just the way it is", doesn't mean it's right or that it's going to make relationships successful or that that is how it has to be.

 

It is amazing the number of women that are all over the internet pouring out their hearts about their struggles with porn, and the men that come on the internet defending porn, and pointing out all the "postives" and explaing why it's "okay", and ignoring the hurt, and the fear and the truth about how porn uses/objectifies/ and sets a bar that no real woman can meet. Men never admit to the negatives, or want to seriously address the issues women face and how they relate to men in return. They don't want to admit that sitting infront of your computer masturbating to Housewife Sl*ts 5000000000 isn't exactly the thing of respect for women or even himself. Real men today pathetically sit infront of their computers instead of engaging with real women. It's discouraging. But I refuse to believe that is the way it just has to be. I just find it ironic that the number thing all men want is respect, but they don't want to return that respect to women.

 

And I completely understand why men like porn, or like looking at younger women. We all understand nature. But the truth is that neither men or women want to be replaced. However, that is exactly what millions of husbands/boyfriends do to their women everyday when it comes to porn. And men expect women to sit there with smiles on their faces and be ready to spread their legs like it's some great honor to be of service to him after he was just fantasizing about x amount of women.

 

Women like providers. It doesn't mean it's okay for women to exploit men for this. How come it's okay to exploit women for sex? Men HATE when women use them/replace them for money. So gentlemen, remember how you feel when you feel like you are being used for money or just seen as a walking wallet, because that is exactly how alot of women end up feeling when it comes to porn. I don't expect most men to care at this point anymore. I give up hoping for men to be on real women's side insteadof the side the are truly loyal to..which is so obviously pornography. But I guess men can feel good in the fact that they win, women loose. And when your woman gets too old, you can just trade her up for some naive stupid 18 year old girl in a porno. That must be what love is about to men. I don't know.

[michelangelo]

JS, when you riff on all men like this i can see that you are hurting from some specific man doing something you find offensive. But please, do you really have to hate all men and base that hatred on flawed reasoning? You do not know the mind of all men anymore than any man does.

 

I think you are not liking the effects of growing old and are taking it out on all those "porn-loving, only lusting for 18-year-old girls" men that you believe are all men.

 

Please reassess your thinking.

 

That is "just the way it is", but that doesn't mean that is the way it has to be. The unfortunte thing is women just slink off with their tail tucked between their legs, continuing to be sad about it but dealing with it anyway because under it all they do love men. And the thanks wome nget for their efforts is the guys go on merrily using the women in porn and their own woman interchangably. She grows older with him, supports him, has his babies, and at the end of the day 18-25 year old girls trump all for men. Well it's discourging and pretty much hopeless because men don't care. They just plain don't care to understand and they just plain don't care to be compasionate and think about how it can effect their woman at home. The real one at home that is suppose to mean more to him then those other women but turns out that she is the last one that gets defended or stuck up for over his pornography. That's what it has come down to today in this day and age but that isn't how it has to be. I think in history if the statement were made "that's just the way it is"..nothing would have ever changed. And just because something is "just the way it is", doesn't mean it's right or that it's going to make relationships successful or that that is how it has to be.

 

It is amazing the number of women that are all over the internet pouring out their hearts about their struggles with porn, and the men that come on the internet defending porn, and pointing out all the "postives" and explaing why it's "okay", and ignoring the hurt, and the fear and the truth about how porn uses/objectifies/ and sets a bar that no real woman can meet. Men never admit to the negatives, or want to seriously address the issues women face and how they relate to men in return. They don't want to admit that sitting infront of your computer masturbating to Housewife Sl*ts 5000000000 isn't exactly the thing of respect for women or even himself. Real men today pathetically sit infront of their computers instead of engaging with real women. It's discouraging. But I refuse to believe that is the way it just has to be. I just find it ironic that the number thing all men want is respect, but they don't want to return that respect to women.

 

And I completely understand why men like porn, or like looking at younger women. We all understand nature. But the truth is that neither men or women want to be replaced. However, that is exactly what millions of husbands/boyfriends do to their women everyday when it comes to porn. And men expect women to sit there with smiles on their faces and be ready to spread their legs like it's some great honor to be of service to him after he was just fantasizing about x amount of women.

 

Women like providers. It doesn't mean it's okay for women to exploit men for this. How come it's okay to exploit women for sex? Men HATE when women use them/replace them for money. So gentlemen, remember how you feel when you feel like you are being used for money or just seen as a walking wallet, because that is exactly how alot of women end up feeling when it comes to porn. I don't expect most men to care at this point anymore. I give up hoping for men to be on real women's side insteadof the side the are truly loyal to..which is so obviously pornography. But I guess men can feel good in the fact that they win, women loose. And when your woman gets too old, you can just trade her up for some naive stupid 18 year old girl in a porno. That must be what love is about to men. I don't know.

[trust]

Here's a scenario: You're in an 18 year LTR. Your SO has little to no sex drive. She does not see this as an issue. You, on the other hand DO see this as an issue. You've tried to be understanding, you've pounded your head against the wall, you've thought about ending the R, hell, you've even posted some of your big ticket issues on a web-forum. All the while, you've never strayed outside of the relationship, however the resentment has grown and you one day find yourself an angry, bitter individual. Your SO sees this and tells you to go on anti-depressants or you can leave. You agree, and lo-and-behold, they work! You no longer care that you have a miserable sex life! An additional bonus is that the anti-depressants have ....er...sexual side-effects. Now, you have ED! Yay! Never was a problem before. So, one day you think "Hmmm it's been almost 2 months since I had sex, and at least 2 weeks since anything has stirred down there. Maybe I'll pleasure myself and try to reconnect with that part of me that is (was) a sexual creature". Alas, you can not make your member perform. Then you remember that you have a few Penthouse magazines stashed in the basement. You leaf through the first one you find, and voila...you have confirmed to yourself that your reproductive organs still work. You are still a man. Now, if your SO had been so inclined to even care about your dillema, well...that's a whole other scenario isn't it.

 

So my question to you is: What are your "Higher ground" thoughts on a man who uses porn as a replacement of his SO because his SO has made herself unavailable? Even moreso, your thoughts in the scenario above where the SO has been a factor in forcing ED upon her spouse?

 

Uhhh. no. Not an excellent post. To that I say: masturbate to the thought of having sex with your wife! Wow! There's a thought. It's what I did when I was out of town on business trips. *And* you are sidestepping the issue of sexual integrity with that most non-excellent post.

[trust]

“Order and Chaos” , if you haven’t already started doing so…skip this post.. it’s not for you.

 

I’m not sharing this experience like a “yay me..look at me..” because after all, I am anonymous on this forum. I choose to keep myself anonymous so that I can be COMPLETELY honest (as long as I’m honest with myself). There’s no reason for me to lie here so please give this some thought. I am a man. I was married. When I was married I did *not* look at porn. Not only did I not look at porn, I didn’t ogle after hot chics either. That’s not to say I didn’t see any hot women. When I did see a hot woman, the moment I started having thoughts of “what I would do” I immediately switched the thoughts of this woman with thoughts of my wife. This worked very well for me. Guarding your mind (unlike watching porn while married) is also a big step forward in keeping yourself in check with the next step (because you are playing with the idea when you look at porn… not to mention all of this talk I’ve made concerning sexual integrity). The next step would be acting out what you’ve seen. Heck, you’ve already rehearsed it over and over in your head with some other girl… I’m not saying that because “I think bad things” that “I will do bad things” in every case, every time…what is important here is to guard your mind from those things so you would be less likely to screw up. Does this make sense? I’m sure it doesn’t to the “die hard” porno kings posting in this thread.

 

But *why* do I behave this way? Many reasons. 1. I was raised with high regard to integrity. If one has low to no integrity (specifically sexual integrity), then of course they will do the porn and pass it off as ok. This is the way these guys are. They’ve resigned to it. And they have no system in place to be open for correction because they don’t subscribe to sexual integrity. They subscribe to an “anything goes” philosophy. They are “live and let live” types. 2. Since I had this modicum of sexual integrity and a conscience to go with it, I would actually feel guilty if I were to have thoughts of having sex with someone other than the one I vowed to be with in marriage. 3. Prior to my marriage, we talked about porn and agreed that it was unacceptable behavior for the both of us (we both had much integrity). That’s the key here; find someone who is on the same level of emotional development as you.

 

And Jersey Shortie, I’ve got to tell you that you have a lot more steam than I do because I’m about to give up on these clowns and just write them off as being too hard to reach. I only work with the willing. Jen, however, is not too hard to reach. It sounds like she’s on the right track for improvement. I just hope these same clowns don’t convince her that some porn in her marriage is “ok” and that she should go along with it. It doesn’t even make sense for these porno kings to be pro-porn and at the same time they are trying to console her. Give me a break!

 

P.S. When you get rid of that porn in your home, send it to these porno-kings’ homes. If they have enough of it already, they can always pass it down to their kids when they are of age.

[Jersey Shortie]

JS, when you riff on all men like this i can see that you are hurting from some specific man doing something you find offensive. But please, do you really have to hate all men and base that hatred on flawed reasoning? You do not know the mind of all men anymore than any man does.

 

Please reassess your thinking.

 

I am quite young in my 20s. But I do wonder what happens as I get older. We all know most men don't like the fact that women do anything as human as age. Men are great as they get older. Apparently men find women less valuble as they get older. Men don't want to be replaced as they get older but that is exactly what most seem to want to do with women. You failed to comment on the truth that a woman can stand by her man, be by his side, have his children, and at the end of the day he is turning to 18-25 year olds in porn. It seems like "hey hunnie, thanks for having my babies but your old news". And I guess women are suppose to love men for this and respect them for it? Please tell me how you suppose that works out?

 

I don't hate men Michelangelo, but I won't pretend there aren't things men do that hurt.

 

First you tell me I have flawed reasoning. That not all men are the same and then you take a cheap shot and say : "I think you are not liking the effects of growing old and are taking it out on all those "porn-loving, only lusting for 18-year-old girls" men that you believe are all men."

 

It's exactly that kind of thinking that makes women bitter. OF COURSE alot of women would get insecure about their place in their man's life if he is looking at porn where most of porn is made up of a limited age group. Do you not understand how that could come off to a woman? Or do you just not want to discuss that because you are too afraid that that makes men look like the "bad guy". I don't want to make men into the "bad guy", I do want men to realize though where women can come from sometimes.

 

And there is something completely discouraging about wanting to build a life with a man, love him, have him love you , take care of him, respect him, and at the end of the day he will turn on the porno of the young girls. So as you both continue to get older, he can soon be masturbating to images of girls his daughter's age. I am not saying this to be mean, or say men are awful. I don't think men are awful at all. It would be nice though if men understood what it was like to be replaced as often as men replace the real one woman in his life that actually loves him. I am sorry that you don't want to open up to that and really hear me out. You ask me to reasses my thinking but in the same breath you try to make me seem like the bad guy for being bothered by being replaced by x amount of women in porn. Perhaps its your thinking that needs a shift as well.

[trust]

Jersey Shortie, I love you to death… you’re nice.. and sweet… have a passion for what’s right… you’re my pro-integrity partner and all but…I’m gonna have to call Shenanigans on that one. Hahahaha Let me see some ID! Hahaha I find it haaaaaaard to believe that you are in your 20’s. Come on now. The likelihood of you having that kind of understanding and also being in your twenties is a stretch. You don’t have to go there to up your legitimacy.

 

To everything else you said… you are absolutely correct. Shame on most men!

[michelangelo]

I am quite young in my 20s. But I do wonder what happens as I get older. We all know most men don't like the fact that women do anything as human as age. Men are great as they get older. Apparently men find women less valuble as they get older. Men don't want to be replaced as they get older but that is exactly what most seem to want to do with women. You failed to comment on the truth that a woman can stand by her man, be by his side, have his children, and at the end of the day he is turning to 18-25 year olds in porn. It seems like "hey hunnie, thanks for having my babies but your old news". And I guess women are suppose to love men for this and respect them for it? Please tell me how you suppose that works out?

 

 

This is the flawed reasoning I was referring to.

 

Your conclusions are based on your emotional responses to something, not truth. We all do not know what you say we know.

 

 

I don't hate men Michelangelo, but I won't pretend there aren't things men do that hurt.

 

First you tell me I have flawed reasoning. That not all men are the same and then you take a cheap shot and say : "I think you are not liking the effects of growing old and are taking it out on all those "porn-loving, only lusting for 18-year-old girls" men that you believe are all men."

 

It's exactly that kind of thinking that makes women bitter. OF COURSE alot of women would get insecure about their place in their man's life if he is looking at porn where most of porn is made up of a limited age group. Do you not understand how that could come off to a woman? Or do you just not want to discuss that because you are too afraid that that makes men look like the "bad guy". I don't want to make men into the "bad guy", I do want men to realize though where women can come from sometimes.

 

 

I wish you didn't take what I wrote as a cheap shot. That was not my intent. Maybe if you reread what I wrote you'd glean what i intended. namely, that men are not as you think they are just because you think they are that way.

 

 

And there is something completely discouraging about wanting to build a life with a man, love him, have him love you , take care of him, respect him, and at the end of the day he will turn on the porno of the young girls. So as you both continue to get older, he can soon be masturbating to images of girls his daughter's age. I am not saying this to be mean, or say men are awful. I don't think men are awful at all. It would be nice though if men understood what it was like to be replaced as often as men replace the real one woman in his life that actually loves him. I am sorry that you don't want to open up to that and really hear me out. You ask me to reasses my thinking but in the same breath you try to make me seem like the bad guy for being bothered by being replaced by x amount of women in porn. Perhaps its your thinking that needs a shift as well.

 

Hey, I am positive that neither gender has a lock on understanding rejection. You don't think men get tossed aside by some wives?

 

For someone so young (as you claim), you sure are obsessed with the idea of older men wanking to images of younger women.

 

This is why I commented that I felt you were worrying about the effects of aging on yourself.

 

If you want to remain stuck on the idea that evil porn is ruining the lives of all women I cannot stop you, clearly. But if you stop to think about it a little differently, you just might not be in such agony over this issue. And then maybe achieve some growth in understanding of the male psyche.

[annieo]

While I would agree that there is a large market out there for young women, porn-wise, I've also perused enough porn to have learned a couple of things:

 

- most search type, free intro porn-sites I've "researched" have categories, so the person looking can find their particular niche. There is the predictable stuff (teens, big boobs, babes, hardcore) but there is also mature, women in control, gay, lesbian, etc., etc.

- the sites I've seen usually start with "teens" (no surprise there!) but the next category is invariably "mature". I am pretty sure that the web masters don't organize it this way to be politically correct, but because that is a BIG market, too. It's all about market, and money.

 

I think that there is an awful lot of paranoid, overly-simplistic generalizing going on here, particularily by JS (sorry, I do understand how you FEEL, but sometimes we have to use a little reason as well).

 

My H is 9 years younger than me (I'm 43, he'll be 34 in a couple of weeks). He was a swinging single bachelor when we met. His previous girl (only lasted a month) had huge boobs, was his age, and was a complete disappointment. She was ridiculously insecure, not very bright, and bored him to tears in about two days, in and out of bed.

 

Why didn't he stick with her, instead of getting himself messed up with an older woman with kids, small breasts, in the midst of a messy divorce? Because he found me more desirable, that's why.

He hasn't always been perfect, but he isn't a stereotype, either. And most men aren't. They're just normal, flawed, usually lovable humans, just like women.

[soserious1]

I'm in my early 50's and at this point am basically living in a sexless marriage, seeing as I can count on one hand the number of times we've had sex in the past year.

 

My husband loves naked women, sexual images... as long as none of them include me.

 

I've tried talking, compromise he says things like "Sex is over rated" ït isn't worth the work" he's sais he doesn't mind helping me out occasionally, just as long as I don't ask more than every couple of weeks... and I'm supposed to pretend not to notice when he seldom orgasms with me or loses his erection when I remove my clothing.his attitude that having sex with me is like some sort of distasteful but obligatory chore is libedo killing to the max and more humilating than words can describe so of course I never lower myself to asking. The 2 times he's approached me in the last year were clearly porn inspired and I declined his offer. All I feel now when I think of sex is shame.

 

I asked him how he would feel if a woman made it clear that the only reason she was having sex with him was because she felt obligated.. if he'd be ok with that,how he'd feel knowing she got no pleasure from it and regarded it as work, he said he'd be fine with it and go for it.

 

 

He won't agree to opening the marriage, he won't agree to any sort of counseling. He doesn't come right out and say it but he infers that I'm the one with a problem, I should be thrilled with the chaste grandma kisses he gives me.At this point in time my self-esteem is non-existant, I have a husband who's clearly interested in sex as long as it's not with me yet insists he loves me and becomes totally offended when I try to discuss these issues with him.

 

 

Do I think porn is the cause of all our problems? no, that would be too easy, overly simplistic, do I think that the free availability of such large amounts of this material has raised the bar in terms of what it takes to excite him? Yes, without a doubt. I cannot compete in any way shape or form with the images he browses daily, nor with the young women he openly scans right in front of me.There's women you long for /lust for and there's women you love in a chaste fashion,like your grandmother,mother, sister ...or an aging no longer physically attractive wife.

I'm in the latter slot.. but he gets really mad when I try to openly acknowledge this.. I'm supposed to just quietly accept that I'm now some sort of sexless, unexciting entity and not be bothered by this.

 

I sleep on the sofa most nights now and basically pray for an early death .

[Mr. Lucky]

I mean, if there was a hot, available woman offering sex to my husband - I guess I do have my doubts if he would pass it up. I was reading a study that came out recently about men seeing women in bikini's and how it clouds their judgment and makes them impulsive. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366102,00.html

Hey, this must be true. Not only was it on TV, it was on Fox News. No source higher or more dependable than that ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[annieo]

I'm in my early 50's and at this point am basically living in a sexless marriage, seeing as I can count on one hand the number of times we've had sex in the past year.

 

My husband loves naked women, sexual images... as long as none of them include me.

 

I've tried talking, compromise he says things like "Sex is over rated" ït isn't worth the work" he's sais he doesn't mind helping me out occasionally, just as long as I don't ask more than every couple of weeks... and I'm supposed to pretend not to notice when he seldom orgasms with me or loses his erection when I remove my clothing.his attitude that having sex with me is like some sort of distasteful but obligatory chore is libedo killing to the max and more humilating than words can describe so of course I never lower myself to asking. The 2 times he's approached me in the last year were clearly porn inspired and I declined his offer. All I feel now when I think of sex is shame.

 

I asked him how he would feel if a woman made it clear that the only reason she was having sex with him was because she felt obligated.. if he'd be ok with that,how he'd feel knowing she got no pleasure from it and regarded it as work, he said he'd be fine with it and go for it.

 

 

He won't agree to opening the marriage, he won't agree to any sort of counseling. He doesn't come right out and say it but he infers that I'm the one with a problem, I should be thrilled with the chaste grandma kisses he gives me.At this point in time my self-esteem is non-existant, I have a husband who's clearly interested in sex as long as it's not with me yet insists he loves me and becomes totally offended when I try to discuss these issues with him.

 

 

Do I think porn is the cause of all our problems? no, that would be too easy, overly simplistic, do I think that the free availability of such large amounts of this material has raised the bar in terms of what it takes to excite him? Yes, without a doubt. I cannot compete in any way shape or form with the images he browses daily, nor with the young women he openly scans right in front of me.There's women you long for /lust for and there's women you love in a chaste fashion,like your grandmother,mother, sister ...or an aging no longer physically attractive wife.

I'm in the latter slot.. but he gets really mad when I try to openly acknowledge this.. I'm supposed to just quietly accept that I'm now some sort of sexless, unexciting entity and not be bothered by this.

 

I sleep on the sofa most nights now and basically pray for an early death .

 

This is essentially your husband's problem, and it is unfortunately being inflicted on you. Don't let it!!!!

You are no different than a younger woman who is being ignored by her spouse. There are lots of women who post here who are in their 20's and 30's, sexually available and enticing, who have partner who has turned off them, either due to porn, boredom, wanting other women, yeesh, any number of lame-ass reasons.

This is NOT about your age, or your attractiveness, or porn. It's about your husband being a dickwad for taking for granted what he has. Or being too lazy and insecure to have an actual sexual relationship. You shouldn't lie on the couch and pray for death, he should, and what he should wish for is to WAKE UP! And you should wake up, too, honey.

Don't let him mess with your head in this way. If he won't change, then maybe you have to start thinking about what/who you want in your life. It ain't over at 50, as your own desires are telling you. Take care of your own, sweet self!

[trubella]

JS, my heart truly goes out to you. I think myself, and many other women can relate to how you feel on this subject..

 

I wonder what a ballpark percentage would be of how many women hate porn compared to how many dont mind it/dont care if their spouses watch it.

 

maybe im in the minority here because i could care less when my SO watches, sometimes i even watch. i think it should only be a problem when your SO is addicted to it and neglects you.

 

I do feel bad for women in those cases..