michelangelo Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Um, no. male use of sex toys is not equal to female use of sex toys. Why? Because it is not a fair comparison, despite it seeming counter-intuitive. Women masturbate with vibrators. Why? Because by most accounts sex toys are the best enhancement of sexual stimulation for women seeking orgasms by themselves. Men masturbate to porn. Why? because by most accounts porn is the best enhancement of sexual stimulation for men seeking orgasms by themselves.
luvstarved Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Um, no. male use of sex toys is not equal to female use of sex toys. Why? Because it is not a fair comparison, despite it seeming counter-intuitive. Women masturbate with vibrators. Why? Because by most accounts sex toys are the best enhancement of sexual stimulation for women seeking orgasms by themselves. Men masturbate to porn. Why? because by most accounts porn is the best enhancement of sexual stimulation for men seeking orgasms by themselves. Do you guys realize what you are arguing about????? OMG!!! Are there actually humans out there that use sex toys for stimulation and can achieve orgasm that way without the added benefit of fantasy??? Geez, am I naive or something? I was thoroughly convinced that fantasy was a required component of masturbation...shouldn't the argument be about the source of that fantasy???
Jersey Shortie Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Um, no. male use of sex toys is not equal to female use of sex toys. Why? Because it is not a fair comparison, despite it seeming counter-intuitive. How is comparing sex toys to sex toys not a fair comparison? Comparing an inanimate object, to real people protrayed in a movie that your man is thinking about/fantasizing about isn't even close to the same thing. Comparing a hunk of plastic, to real women in a movie, is not the same thing. Men masturbate to porn. Why? because by most accounts porn is the best enhancement of sexual stimulation for men seeking orgasms by themselves. I am already aware how important porn is to men. How men can't be happy with just their SO and need a consistant supply of different women to make themselves feel good about themselves at the cost of their own SO. B
LakesideDream Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 The best part is he is a stay at home dad with our two boys. So literally, I have no where to take our children in the morning to get to work. He also decided to leave with our carseat & stroller in the car, so he effectively left me stranded here. And I have no family or friends who live anywhere nearby (kind of out in the sticks). I am just angry beyond words. Bad planning Jenn. I've read all of your posts on this thread, and have an opinion, for whatever value you give it. First... you forced your H to agree to look at "less" porn, to only a couple of days a week. Anybody who has an addiction of any kind or has dealt with an addiction will tell you that is not a formula for success. Still... he "went without" for a day before returning to his addiction the second day. That was a big deal! Instead of positive reinforcement for succeeding for a day, you literally trashed him for not meeting your expectations. Your expectations. He was doing something for you, making an effort and when that effort wasn't appreciated by you he was hurt. Positive reinforcement is the key to behavior change, not punishment. After his failure, you were not able to try again. He relapsed, was he willing to try again? What did you offer to him to replace his need for porno? Anything? Or.. was your only tool punishment if he failed? Was punishment all he had to look forward to if / when he failed? I gaurentee you that the porn images he looked at never punished him for looking. Quite the contrary, he looked at porno, and achieved an erection (that felt good), continued to watch and masturbated (felt really good). After he ejaculated and was temporarily satisfied nobody yelled at him or threatened him. That is a classic example of Positive Reinforcement. That is, until you discovered his actions (if you did) and punished him for feeling good. Does that seem like a successful formula for breaking an addiction that you view as harmful (and that is harmful to your relationship)? You need to find something he wants, or needs from you to replace the good things he gets from viewing porn and masturbating. It's all about positive reinforcement and value. Find something he wants more than solo orgasms and fill that need. Or hire a babysitter, and buy some new car seats.
Mr. Lucky Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Comparing an inanimate object, to real people protrayed in a movie that your man is thinking about/fantasizing about isn't even close to the same thing. Comparing a hunk of plastic, to real women in a movie, is not the same thing. I hate to keep pointing this out Jersey, but the image of a person in a movie isn't a real person. It's just a collection of pixels, just as a dildo is just a molded hunk of plastic. Neither is "real"... Mr. Lucky
michelangelo Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Do you guys realize what you are arguing about????? OMG!!! Are there actually humans out there that use sex toys for stimulation and can achieve orgasm that way without the added benefit of fantasy??? Geez, am I naive or something? I was thoroughly convinced that fantasy was a required component of masturbation...shouldn't the argument be about the source of that fantasy??? Oh, I actually agree with you. I just figured that is presumed for either gender's preferred method of wanking. And I have no problem with NOT limiting the fantasies of either sex.
michelangelo Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 How is comparing sex toys to sex toys not a fair comparison? Comparing an inanimate object, to real people protrayed in a movie that your man is thinking about/fantasizing about isn't even close to the same thing. Comparing a hunk of plastic, to real women in a movie, is not the same thing. I am already aware how important porn is to men. How men can't be happy with just their SO and need a consistant supply of different women to make themselves feel good about themselves at the cost of their own SO. B Um, a movie is an inanimate object just as much as that hunk of plastic you refer to. I've seen some of those realistic vibrators. They sure look like a shlong to me. Yet I know they are not. same kind of thinking could be done regarding porn. It's what's the mind that the vibe or the porn stimulates. Why is that so threatening?
Order & Chaos Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I would agree, either it is wrong to have an substitution to the real thing or it's okay. Jersey, by your logic, then, it is wrong for a woman to use a sex toy to masturbate as it is as wrong for men to use porn. Both avenues are artificial and are replacing the spot that the spouse should be filling. So now sex toys are wrong? Or is masturbation wrong? Is it that one should not engage in any sex type activities if their significant other isn't present and accounted for? How far off is this argument now from the Catholic standing that all sex is wrong if not for procreation?
luvstarved Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Again, since fantasy is a required component of masturbation, I would think that the physical device, be it a hand or a dildo or, um, ...a diaper... was irrelevant. It's what's on the mind that matters, and I guess Jersey's objection is really about her H having these other women on his mind instead of her. Personally, when I masturbate, I do not need porn or a sex toy, just my sweet little imagination. And what gets me going is thinking of scenarios including nameless, generic hot people. I am not so dumb as to think that my H thinks of anything he sees in porn as anything really more than that - hot people doing certain things. I don't think he daydreams about being married to any of them. If we're getting specific, what bothers me is knowing that he is thinking of REAL people - neighbors, coworkers, people he actually interacts with on a near-daily basis. I have done this maybe 3 or 4 times in my life, and it honestly made me feel weird being around those people after the fact. When it comes to real people like that, I do worry that he might extend the fantasy to think that they would be a good match - that the great pretend sex makes them appear more attractive, funny, clever, etc when he is actually in their presence - or that he comes to believe that the sex with them would actually be as good as it was in his mind...to me, those are the seedlings of an affair and while, for me, when i have finally 'landed' someone I fantasized about, it was a disappointment (because the fantasies are cosmic!!), the sad fact is that you can't know that until you have already cheated! In my relationship, I am anti-porn because I think porn is anti-intimacy. I understand it, though, and it isn't by itself a dealbreaker. Cheating, however, is...
Jersey Shortie Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 LakesideDream, your post places alot of blame on Jennifer and completely negates and doesn't even attempt to address her husband for his own accountiblity for his own choices and actions. She "forced him"...she "didn't praise him" even though he broke his word...She did this..she did that. In a relationship it takes two people. You would think the way you were talking that her husband was a 5 year old unable to process information logically or remain true to his word as a grown adult man. I hate to keep pointing this out Jersey, but the image of a person in a movie isn't a real person. It's just a collection of pixels, just as a dildo is just a molded hunk of plastic. Neither is "real"... Mr. Lucky So when you have a picture taken of you, you aren't a real person? Seriously, I don't agree with your "logic". Heck, I don't even understand how you think that makes any sense at all. The movie itself is an object. But since the guy isn't taking the cd and poking his willy in that little donut hole, I think we can safely say he isn't having sex with the movie or little dots, which seems to be your argument. He is however visually and mentally exciting himself with other real women. Women with facial expressions, women who make their own little sex sounds, women who protray a certain amount of personality on screen that either makes him more attracted to a particular women in a movie or not. I am sure Mr. lucky, that you have seen pornos where you found one type of women more exciting then another. A dildo provides no such personality or differences as the variety in porn of women does. So yes, the cd that the movie is playing on is an object. The actual person protrayed in the movie is a real live person. And arguing that that person isn't real, or that a man isn't getting excited by the imagery of a real woman protrayed on film, doesn't make any logical sense. Um, a movie is an inanimate object just as much as that hunk of plastic you refer to. Oh I agree. A movie is an inanimate object. No doubt about that...a cd or video tape is a "noun". A person protrayed in a movie that showcases a certain amount of personality, is not an object. It's still a real person on screen. And as I explained to Mr.Lucky, a dildo provides no such personality as a porno provides for men. So you see, if we were to logically compare sex toys for women, to sex toys for men, it makes much more sense since both provide no other stimulous then what they are meant to provide. You also are failing to take into account how alot of women are protrayed in porn compared to a hunk of plastic. There are so many other tricky subjects and questions within pornography then there will ever be regarding a sex toy. The over inflated ideals about beauty in porn, the degrading ways that women are often refered to in porn or treated, the way women are shown to be worth less then men in porn, the misogny. After all, we all know men love porn but when it comes down to what men really think of women in porn, they don't exactly hold much respect for them. I do often wonder, as a woman, how men really think of women considering the mixed messages men send. They say they respect women, but they are all for watching a girl be called a four letter word and used by a guy just to get off. That doesn't seem like respect if you ask me. Does it to you? A movie IS just an object, but these women in the movies are very real. They have names. They have names that men remember... I.E. Jenna Jaminison. A dildo is a hunk of plastic with no name. A dildo is a hunk of plastic that isn't a real person being used just to get another one off. A didlo is a hunk of plastic period. I've seen some of those realistic vibrators. They sure look like a shlong to me. Yet I know they are not. I have never see a male sex toy but I am sure it resembles a vagina. Why is that so threatening? Because a dildo isn't attached to another man with a face and personality. Unlike porn movies where a man is looking at the whole package, not just a vagina. Because the ideals of beauty in porn are so fake and hard for real women to meet. While a man watches and lusts after impossible standards, how is his SO suppose to feel safe and want to be vulnerable with him knowing what *really* turns him on? For the fact that with the amount of variety porn provides, it really jsut feeds mens' never ending expectations and unhappiness with just being loyal to one woman..need I go on?
Jennifer26 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 First... you forced your H to agree to look at "less" porn, to only a couple of days a week. I have to take argument with this. I did not tell him he had to stop, or demand he stop. Rather, I brought it up and said *I* was having an issue with how often he was looking at porn, because of how it effects *our* sex life. I never said he was a bad person, or his porn habit was dirty, or tried to make him feel bad over it. But the truth is that IT IS having a negative impact on our sexual relationship and probably other areas as well. Anybody who has an addiction of any kind or has dealt with an addiction will tell you that is not a formula for success. Still... he "went without" for a day before returning to his addiction the second day. That was a big deal! Instead of positive reinforcement for succeeding for a day, you literally trashed him for not meeting your expectations. Your expectations. He was doing something for you, making an effort and when that effort wasn't appreciated by you he was hurt. Positive reinforcement is the key to behavior change, not punishment. I trashed him? I brought up that he lied to me, yes. He said he would not attempt to hide when he looks at porn - he did. I said I was disappointed that the very next day after our conversation he was back to viewing porn. I don't think I "trashed" him. And I don't think "my expectations" are unreasonable. I'm making compromises here. I've never told him what he can or cannot do, rather what I will and will not put up with in a relationship. And maybe this makes me a selfish bitch, but I won't stay married to a man who won't have sex with me unless I bring it up and practically have to guilt him into sex. I've tried to be here for him. I am always careful how I broach things and I would never try to make him feel ashamed or dirty. But I do think it is important that I clarify the issue I am having with all of this and give him the opportunity to change it before I walk out on him. After his failure, you were not able to try again. He relapsed, was he willing to try again? What did you offer to him to replace his need for porno? Anything? Or.. was your only tool punishment if he failed? Was punishment all he had to look forward to if / when he failed? What was my replacement for the pornography? Have you even been reading my posts? My offer for him is SEX. With a real live woman, who is into it and is adventurous and is not afraid to try new things. I gaurentee you that the porn images he looked at never punished him for looking. Quite the contrary, he looked at porno, and achieved an erection (that felt good), continued to watch and masturbated (felt really good). After he ejaculated and was temporarily satisfied nobody yelled at him or threatened him. That is a classic example of Positive Reinforcement. That is, until you discovered his actions (if you did) and punished him for feeling good. Does that seem like a successful formula for breaking an addiction that you view as harmful (and that is harmful to your relationship)? You need to find something he wants, or needs from you to replace the good things he gets from viewing porn and masturbating. It's all about positive reinforcement and value. Find something he wants more than solo orgasms and fill that need. Or hire a babysitter, and buy some new car seats. No, I'm sure porn has never made him feel bad, because porn is not real. Look, I can't break his addiction or solve this for him. He has to want to do it and he has to take the steps. I'm under no illusion that I can do this for him. I am willing to be here for him, and make this work. Even though I have been sexually frustrated for years, I am still here and I have never strayed from our marriage. I am willing to go to counseling with him, I am willing to help him in any way he needs. But I am not willing to do this if I don't even see a desire on his part to try. And going back the very next day, and hiding it, is not trying. What he did is what he's done in the past, and that is to placate me and continue on with the behavior. I'm at a point where I really need to see an effort from him, or I will be finding that new babysitter and car seat. And he did come back, about two hours later. He said he knows he screwed up and that he is sorry for it. I told him I don't need an apology from him, and that this whole thing did not need to get blown out of proportion. Yes, I brought up that I knew he looked and hid it. But I wasn't expecting him to grovel at my feet. I just wanted to know if he was serious when he told me he was going to try to cut back. I don't want to be lied to and placated. He said he did mean it, and that he just screwed up. I am fine with that, really. I know there are going to be slip ups, and I know he isn't perfect and that this is going to be somewhat hard for him. I just want to know he is in this with me and not lying to me.
Starman Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Jen, I sure hope things take a turn for the better. It is everyone's best interest that it does. Good luck!
LakesideDream Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I have to take argument with this. I did not tell him he had to stop, or demand he stop. Rather, I brought it up and said *I* was having an issue with how often he was looking at porn, because of how it effects *our* sex life. I never said he was a bad person, or his porn habit was dirty, or tried to make him feel bad over it. But the truth is that IT IS having a negative impact on our sexual relationship and probably other areas as well. I trashed him? I brought up that he lied to me, yes. He said he would not attempt to hide when he looks at porn - he did. I said I was disappointed that the very next day after our conversation he was back to viewing porn. I don't think I "trashed" him. And I don't think "my expectations" are unreasonable. I'm making compromises here. I've never told him what he can or cannot do, rather what I will and will not put up with in a relationship. And maybe this makes me a selfish bitch, but I won't stay married to a man who won't have sex with me unless I bring it up and practically have to guilt him into sex. I've tried to be here for him. I am always careful how I broach things and I would never try to make him feel ashamed or dirty. But I do think it is important that I clarify the issue I am having with all of this and give him the opportunity to change it before I walk out on him. What was my replacement for the pornography? Have you even been reading my posts? My offer for him is SEX. With a real live woman, who is into it and is adventurous and is not afraid to try new things. No, I'm sure porn has never made him feel bad, because porn is not real. Look, I can't break his addiction or solve this for him. He has to want to do it and he has to take the steps. I'm under no illusion that I can do this for him. I am willing to be here for him, and make this work. Even though I have been sexually frustrated for years, I am still here and I have never strayed from our marriage. I am willing to go to counseling with him, I am willing to help him in any way he needs. But I am not willing to do this if I don't even see a desire on his part to try. And going back the very next day, and hiding it, is not trying. What he did is what he's done in the past, and that is to placate me and continue on with the behavior. I'm at a point where I really need to see an effort from him, or I will be finding that new babysitter and car seat. And he did come back, about two hours later. He said he knows he screwed up and that he is sorry for it. I told him I don't need an apology from him, and that this whole thing did not need to get blown out of proportion. Yes, I brought up that I knew he looked and hid it. But I wasn't expecting him to grovel at my feet. I just wanted to know if he was serious when he told me he was going to try to cut back. I don't want to be lied to and placated. He said he did mean it, and that he just screwed up. I am fine with that, really. I know there are going to be slip ups, and I know he isn't perfect and that this is going to be somewhat hard for him. I just want to know he is in this with me and not lying to me. As stated in the beginning of my post, my opinions only have the value you give them. There is something you might want to do before discounting my opinion completely. Go through the above post of yours carefully. Count the number of "I's", then look for a "We". Do the "I's" have it?
Jennifer26 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 As stated in the beginning of my post, my opinions only have the value you give them. There is something you might want to do before discounting my opinion completely. Go through the above post of yours carefully. Count the number of "I's", then look for a "We". Do the "I's" have it? I am sure they do - see I posted two right in this sentence. How I discuss things here, and with him are different. Here I am venting a bit, when I discuss these issues with him I am far more careful of how I phrase things because the last thing I want is for him to feel that I am trying to control him or that I am looking down on him about all of this. Truly, I am not. I love him very much, and I think he is a good person. I understand many of the points you were making, but I feel some of them weren't applicable here. As for the porn not making him feel bad, and me being the bad guy. I just find this ridiculous. And the truth is, porn DOES make him feel bad. He has told me many times after he masturbates he has a strong feeling of guilt. Not because of my stance on it either, but because of how his mother made him feel in terms of masturbation and pornography being evil and disgusting. I don't feel either are bad things, and I've never said anything that would make him think that I do. He's said many times porn conflicts with his morals. Personally, I have no moral objection to porn. My only issue is how often he does it, and how little he comes to me for sex as a result. And I also resent that you've said I've punished him. I've never punished him. I don't shout at him, I don't say derogatory things to him about it. I only express concern about how it impacts our relationship and he's agreed with me that it does affect how he feels towards me and sex with me. If bringing up an issue with him is punishment, I don't see how we're ever going to have a good marriage. You have to be able to discuss things I think. And I always try to do so in the most mature fashion that I can. I can't pat him on the head and give him a cookie whenever he goes one day without porn. I don't think he'd honestly want that either. I think he'd rather I stay out of his fantasy time altogether, and I am more than happy to do so - so long as it stops impacting OUR real life. I might make him feel bad bringing up issues, but that is something I can't help. This is real life, and we're grown ups with children, a mortgage and responsibilities. His fantasy world may make him feel more happy, but fantasy isn't reality. You can't retreat from life just because sometimes it makes you feel bad. And like I said, I am usually pretty delicate about how I broach these things because of the understanding his mother made him feel so shameful about it in his youth.
LakesideDream Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Jenn, I don't think you are a bad guy in the relationship. I your diagnosis is correct, and your husband is "addicted" to porno then there are techniques you may find valuable in dealing with it. Addicted people are very immature, especially in modalities that surround their addictions. Telling, or making a bargain with an addict to change a behavior is not a successful stratigy. Offering to trade one behavior for another isn't a successful stragity either. Addicts can be expected to suffer setbacks. Punishment for setbacks is not a successful stratigy. There is literally millions of pages on sex addiction available free, thousands on porn addictions. If you want to help your H, help him, don't punish him for his behavior. You sound like a smart, feisty, sexy lady who has had it with her husband jacking off to porno. I don't blame you one bit. If I were you I'd be pissed too. You also sound like a woman who loves her husband and can't understand why he chooses porno images over your, his real life lover. That's even more understandable. The answers to many of your questions are available. Find them and put the techniques you learn to use to save your marriage. What you are doing now isn't working. Good Luck.
LakesideDream Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Jenn, you say you don't want to give him a cookie for going a day without porno... I don't get that. Isn't that how addictions are broken, one day at a time? OH, and get him some serious psych. help for his "mommie" issues. That stuff is way beyond lay people like you and me to deal with.
Jersey Shortie Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You also sound like a woman who loves her husband and can't understand why he chooses porno images over your, his real life lover[/FONT][/COLOR] Most men, at some point, choose porn over their partner. Everytime he looks at porn, or picks it up, he is choosing that over his real life partner. It would seem that the majority of men and 100% of men that look at porn, at some point choose porn over their partner. Disheartening, but true.[/FONT][/COLOR]
Jennifer26 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Jenn, I don't think you are a bad guy in the relationship. I your diagnosis is correct, and your husband is "addicted" to porno then there are techniques you may find valuable in dealing with it. Addicted people are very immature, especially in modalities that surround their addictions. Telling, or making a bargain with an addict to change a behavior is not a successful stratigy. Offering to trade one behavior for another isn't a successful stragity either. Addicts can be expected to suffer setbacks. Punishment for setbacks is not a successful stratigy. There is literally millions of pages on sex addiction available free, thousands on porn addictions. If you want to help your H, help him, don't punish him for his behavior. You sound like a smart, feisty, sexy lady who has had it with her husband jacking off to porno. I don't blame you one bit. If I were you I'd be pissed too. You also sound like a woman who loves her husband and can't understand why he chooses porno images over your, his real life lover. That's even more understandable. The answers to many of your questions are available. Find them and put the techniques you learn to use to save your marriage. What you are doing now isn't working. Good Luck.Thanks, and I am sorry if I jumped your case a little. I suppose I feel pretty raw about all of this right now. I appreciate any input on this, whether I agree or not. It is always good to gain different perspectives. I think counseling for him would be wonderful, but he is very adamantly against it. The stories he has told me about his childhood are heart wrenching, and honestly sometimes I am amazed that he's turned out as well as he did. His mother is a very cold, unforgiving person. I could go on for pages with the things she did to him as a child, up until she threw him out at 16 and they've never had a relationship since. She's never met or even spoke to me and my husband and I have been together about nine years now. She's never met either of her two grandchildren. I tried sending her an email once with pictures and to extend an olive branch and introduce myself. She never replied back. It is really tragic. I wish there was someway I could help my husband move past being rejected by his own mother. But I don't know how and like I said counseling isn't something he wants to do. I've tried pushing it before, but never with any success. I think it is key though in helping him resolve some of this stuff and I hope to find new ways to convince him of this. As for the sex/porn addiction.. I've certainly done my share of looking up information on this topic. What I tend to find is mainly christian websites which condemn any porn use altogether. Also, I've heard solutions such as removing the computer completely from the home (impossible since he is a student and I use it to work from home often) or if you cannot remove the computer to set up a system where he can only be on the computer if I am in the room. I'm just not willing to do this. I don't want to feel like a prison warden. As for rewarding him when he's not looking at porn.. how could I go about this? I don't really want to tell him when I've been viewing what he is doing on the computer. Infact, I'd like to stop monitoring this altogether. I hate doing it. Again, it makes me feel like I am trying to control him. I guess any further advice would be helpful. I'm not really sure what I can do here.
michelangelo Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 If what your H is experiencing is a sexual addiction focused on jerking off to excess, at the expense of marital relations with you, I am sorry for that. I was listening to the radio last night and that "Doctor Drew" was on love line. They addressed sexual addiction, how to cure it. Anyway, it was Dr. Drew's contention that you cannot fix it by getting an addict to have an "aha" moment. Therapy, while good for getting an intellectual understanding of a person's behavior, is not going to fix it. According to Dr. Drew, research has found that the best level of success for avoiding addictive behavior is being active in a 12-step program.
Jennifer26 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 If what your H is experiencing is a sexual addiction focused on jerking off to excess, at the expense of marital relations with you, I am sorry for that. I was listening to the radio last night and that "Doctor Drew" was on love line. They addressed sexual addiction, how to cure it. Anyway, it was Dr. Drew's contention that you cannot fix it by getting an addict to have an "aha" moment. Therapy, while good for getting an intellectual understanding of a person's behavior, is not going to fix it. According to Dr. Drew, research has found that the best level of success for avoiding addictive behavior is being active in a 12-step program. I think he'd divorce me before he'd go to something like that. I'm not kidding.
popey Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I haven't been here for awhile, but I am sadly not surprise but disheartened to see how prevelant this problem is, and worse how much offense is projected by some when a woman simply reports, "this hurts me, and consequently my relationship." Anyway, to those who say its harmless fantasy. Do your homework. B/c scientific study and academic research have found quite the oposite. I could be wrong, but I have yet to find any research that studies the long-term effect of porn. even w/o doing your homework. how about just using ur brain. Pavlov's dogs people! Yes, human beings are easily conditioned. And what could be a more powerful rienforcer than an orgasm? Good God. How lazy have we gotten that so many people are willing to even turn over control of their sexual imaginations to another heartless billion dollar industry?
Jersey Shortie Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Let's get married.... That is, if you're male
Jennifer26 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I went back a few pages in this thread and realized that I had missed this. I was also surprised that no one else commented on it. There is more than a little bit of irony in your anger with your H's use of porn if you've sent nude pix of yourself to other men... Mr. LuckyMr. Lucky: I didn't see this post until just a few minutes ago. I will fully admit that what I did was wrong, and I am not proud nor do I think what I did was in any way shape, or form okay to do. It was disrespectful to my husband, myself and our relationship. My husband never discovered I did this. I came out and admitted it to him because I felt bad about having done it. I did it partly because I felt so ignored and unwanted. Back then we had sex maybe 1-2x a month. He started having an emotional affair as well with a woman he met in college (although he'll still never admit this). We fought anytime we were together, and we hardly ever even saw each other back then (this was a few years ago). I also did it in part for revenge. I was angry and hurt with him over the EA and the pornography. I learned from my mistake, and I've never made it again. I don't think it is fair to say because I screwed up one time it isn't okay for me to be upset over the pornography issue.
Mr. Lucky Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 And arguing that that person isn't real, or that a man isn't getting excited by the imagery of a real woman protrayed on film, doesn't make any logical sense. But isn't the woman getting excited by the vibrator? The fact that there's not a picture of a real person (although who knows, right?) in front of her at that moment of orgasm seems like a meaningless distinction to me. Maybe your BF could whack off to one of those animated or computer generated images like Lara Croft, Tomb Raider. Would that be OK with you since she's not a "real" person ? Bottom line Jersey, you simply lack faith in yourself and your own abilities within a relationship. And that surprises the heck out of me, since you seem intelligent, thoughtful, witty and fun. JMHO, Mr. Lucky
Order & Chaos Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 But isn't the woman getting excited by the vibrator? The fact that there's not a picture of a real person (although who knows, right?) in front of her at that moment of orgasm seems like a meaningless distinction to me. Maybe your BF could whack off to one of those animated or computer generated images like Lara Croft, Tomb Raider. Would that be OK with you since she's not a "real" person ? Bottom line Jersey, you simply lack faith in yourself and your own abilities within a relationship. And that surprises the heck out of me, since you seem intelligent, thoughtful, witty and fun. JMHO, Mr. Lucky Actually that is a good point. If it is cartoon porn or animated porn is it alright then? They are fantasy then and not real.
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