Another porn question...

[Jennifer26]

Which is why porn use and any concerns about it should come up much earlier in the relationship than after marriage! How are all these couples getting married without knowing anything about each other's fantasy lives and masturbation habits and views?

Oh, I did this. I was very upfront in the very beginning of our relationship that I didn't like porn, and absolutely will not tolerate strip clubs.

 

My husband, then boyfriend agreed with me that strip clubs were for desperate men, and that he had only gone a few times during his time in the navy because friends wanted to go and that he mostly just sat in the back rooms and played pool and drank beer.

 

He also said porn was no biggie to him, and he could go with or without it.

 

Both were blatant lies. I caught him once going to a strip club, and this while I was pregnant with our first child and god knows how many times he has gone before and after that. He knows that I would absolutely flip if I knew, I almost left him the first time, so I am sure if he does go he does everything he possibly can to avoid getting caught.

 

With the porn issue, I am actually more lax about it then I was when we were dating. I used to HATE it, these days I am not as bothered, except by the frequency of his use and how it effects out sex life.

 

But he knew without a shadow of a doubt how I felt from day one. He chose to marry me with this knowledge and has just lied about things to me. He wants to have his cake and eat it too.

[Mr. Lucky]

Oh, I did this. I was very upfront in the very beginning of our relationship that I didn't like porn, and absolutely will not tolerate strip clubs.

 

My husband, then boyfriend agreed with me that strip clubs were for desperate men, and that he had only gone a few times during his time in the navy because friends wanted to go and that he mostly just sat in the back rooms and played pool and drank beer.

 

He also said porn was no biggie to him, and he could go with or without it.

 

Both were blatant lies. I caught him once going to a strip club, and this while I was pregnant with our first child and god knows how many times he has gone before and after that. He knows that I would absolutely flip if I knew, I almost left him the first time, so I am sure if he does go he does everything he possibly can to avoid getting caught.

 

With the porn issue, I am actually more lax about it then I was when we were dating. I used to HATE it, these days I am not as bothered, except by the frequency of his use and how it effects out sex life.

 

But he knew without a shadow of a doubt how I felt from day one. He chose to marry me with this knowledge and has just lied about things to me. He wants to have his cake and eat it too.

Jennifer:

 

You sound like you neither love nor respect your husband. Why stay married under those circumstances ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Meaplus3]

When I go out in public and I see a man with his family, the real truth is behind that is a man that wants to watch 18 year old with implants have sex.

 

Jersey, I see your point and tend to agree. However, who cares.. as long as it's not acted on.

 

AP:)

[LucreziaBorgia]

My husband, then boyfriend agreed with me that strip clubs were for desperate men, and that he had only gone a few times during his time in the navy because friends wanted to go and that he mostly just sat in the back rooms and played pool and drank beer.

 

He also said porn was no biggie to him, and he could go with or without it.

 

I'm not so sure it was lies so much as it was him telling you what you wanted to hear, so that he would better be able to hold on to you.

 

Would you have stayed with him if he had not agreed with you, and was completely honest about liking strip clubs and porn? Probably not, hence why he led you to believe otherwise.

 

He probably lied because he felt you put him in a position to - perhaps he knew that being truthful would cause him to lose you.

 

Of course, it came back and bit him in the ass anyway - but I can see why he misled you to begin with.

[Jennifer26]

Jennifer:

 

You sound like you neither love nor respect your husband. Why stay married under those circumstances ?

 

Mr. Lucky

I have a lot of harbored resentment. After years of going round and round on the same issues, countless hours of me reading relationship books, spending time on forums discussing our relationship, even speaking on a radio show once to a phsychologist and then of course the attempt at marriage counseling - well none have worked. I am at my wits end and I no longer no what to do. Nothing I've tried has worked thus far, and I am pretty sick and tired of discussing the same old issues only to be placated.

 

Why do I stay? Well, for start we have two younger children. I know that I would be able to make it on my own, but at the same time I went through my parents divorce, and it was hard. I don't want to do that to my kids and then of course there are the things about him that I do love.

 

I find him very attractive, smart, funny. . most of the time he is really good about helping me out with stuff, comes to all my family functions with me, spends a good deal of time with me and the kids and is always telling me how beautiful and great he thinks I am.

 

I want to just move past this issue, I wish it could be worked out. Because there are so many great things about him besides this. But like I said in previous posts, I don't know if my resolve will last forever.

[Jennifer26]

I'm not so sure it was lies so much as it was him telling you what you wanted to hear, so that he would better be able to hold on to you.

 

Would you have stayed with him if he had not agreed with you, and was completely honest about liking strip clubs and porn? Probably not, hence why he led you to believe otherwise.

 

He probably lied because he felt you put him in a position to - perhaps he knew that being truthful would cause him to lose you.

 

Of course, it came back and bit him in the ass anyway - but I can see why he misled you to begin with.

 

I know why, but I think it is a pretty **** thing to do.

 

If you know that there are things you cannot or will not give up, then why marry a person you know is adamently against it?

 

Seems pretty selfish if you ask me.

[Ruby Slippers]

I know exactly what you mean. It bothers me too. I have all sorts of idealistic notions I am quite fond of, and life would a lot easier if "reality" would accommodate them a little better.

Again, YES.

 

Only the most idealistic amongst us can ignore pragmatism for long. Life has a way of forcing it on us, whether it be politics, relationships, or whatever.

Ugh, I know! I think I was much happier in my little rose-colored bubble of wonder and magic, when from all I could see my (ex)boyfriend only had eyes for me and found me endlessly fascinating. I had this whole mythology of love created in my mind, and he was only too happy to join the story as the male lead.

 

I saw a cool quote on here the other day... "We all either end up boring or mentally ill eventually." I think you could say the same thing about idealism... in the long run, we either end up compromising, or we go totally crazy. Each has it's advantages.

That is funny. I am STRONGLY resisting letting go of my naive illusions about life and love. And my guy, who usually quite irritatingly has his act together and has great conflict resolution skills, patiently waits for me to "get real".

[Ruby Slippers]

If you know that there are things you cannot or will not give up, then why marry a person you know is adamently against it?

Jenn, is this a deal breaker for you or not? If it is, lay down your bottom line and stick to it. It's the only way you'll find any peace.

[The Collector]

Jersey_Shortie, suppose a man was uncomfortable with his partner wearing make-up and dressing attractively? He might argue that her choices were making him upset and unless she wore a sack hiding everything but her eyes (as some cultures do), she is provocatively inflaming other men's desires and disrespecting him. Does the man have the right to demand this of his partner? Should she acquiesce to soothe his jealousy?

[Starman]

I'm not so sure it was lies so much as it was him telling you what you wanted to hear, so that he would better be able to hold on to you.

 

Would you have stayed with him if he had not agreed with you, and was completely honest about liking strip clubs and porn? Probably not, hence why he led you to believe otherwise.

 

He probably lied because he felt you put him in a position to - perhaps he knew that being truthful would cause him to lose you.

 

Of course, it came back and bit him in the ass anyway - but I can see why he misled you to begin with.

 

That is probably the exact reason he was less then truthful. This forum is a perfect example, most (not all) women dislike porn/strip clubs/wandering eyes. And obviously most men know this too, not like it's a big secret the way women rant about it constantly.

 

For a guy who has in interest in such things, unless the woman he is with shows some level in interest in it too, he more then likely will not mention it or deny that he does it. Cause the guy knows that odds are the woman would leave him for someone else or put down an ultimatium that he is not comfortable living within.

 

And since we know that most all men have a wandering eye for looking at women, a large majority of men do in fact look at porn and a smaller percentage go to strip clubs, it looks like the only lasting relationships that would make it are the ones where the women have an interest in it too and aren't insecure about it or the guy complete forgos all of the previous stuff and only has eyes for her. That is if we are talking about guys being 100% honest about things and that women choose to not be with a guy that does any of the things they feel guys should not do concerning these things.

 

Like I said before, this issue will NEVER be resolved so both sides will continue to argue about it ad nausem.

[Starman]

What is so bitter and twisted about this line?

Most men look at porn, we all agree on that, don’t we?

If you see a man in public with his family, chances are looks at porn - at least occasiaonally.

 

The reason I said it was bitter because that is the first thing she seems to think about when she sees a man with his family, that he has some terrible porn habit. Maybe you don't think that comes off as bitter but I sure do. That's harboring some real resentment and hatred about something to feel so strongly about it that it is the first thought someone has when they see a man.

[Jennifer26]

The reason I said it was bitter because that is the first thing she seems to think about when she sees a man with his family, that he has some terrible porn habit. Maybe you don't think that comes off as bitter but I sure do. That's harboring some real resentment and hatred about something to feel so strongly about it that it is the first thought someone has when they see a man.

I have to admit, sometimes I do the same thing.

 

Also, I often wonder when I see a man checking me out, if he is going to go home and masturbate to that image. It creeps me out to think about, but I can't help it. I think I've gained too much knowledge about men via the internet.

 

I kind of wish I could go back to the days when I was naive and thought like a previous poster had mentioned, that my BF only had eyes for me and was unaware of how most men operate.

[Order & Chaos]

No one is saying that masturbation isn’t natural. I just think it’s ridiculous to defend porn as being natural and completely ignore the consequences that can come from porn that are equally natural. I actually agree and think it is “natural” to a degree for men to want to masturbate and look at porn. I however just ask for more “self control”. That doesn’t seem to be something most men really want to engage in. I find irony I defending the natural aspect of masturbation and porn and not being honest and realistic enough to admit that super imposed images of a harem of never ending women doing crazy stuff, isn’t going to cause women to question their men or their place in their man’s life. I don’t think you are being honest, fair or realistic to not recognize that or understand it.

 

 

 

The truth is that we all do things in a relationship that either builds the security of the relationship, or takes away from the security of the relationship. For some women, porn takes away from the security of the relationship. For a vast amount of equally “natural” reasons. We all do things in a relationship to either make our partner feel more secure in the relationship, or we do things that take away from that bond. For some women, porn takes away fro mthe bond. And again, that is something else that is perfectly “natural”.

 

Because that is really what this porn issue is all about, women with low self-esteem and feelings of insecurity feel much better about themselves if they know their men are not looking or fantasizing about other women. Even if their man is loving, caring, and compliments them, the fact that he looks at porn negates all of that

 

That isn’t really the whole story. But yes, part of the issue is insecurity. No matter what we do for our men it's never good enough. A bouncing 23 year old with implants out does it all.

 

How difficult is it for men to understand that here they have a billion dollar industry that caters to everything men like, that is on a never ending supply, where they can see beautiful women doing crazy things in crazy situations, and that a woman isn’t “naturally” going to feel a little put out. That is just as natural as a man getting turned on by porn. However I find that most men do not want to be honest about that respect. They want to defend their “natural” quick impulses but they have no sensitivity and heart to a woman’s natural impulses and reactions. The amount of things that men expect women to be okay with his over whelming. We are suppose to be okay with everything from porn, to him thinking everyone from the college coed down the street to our sisters. It’s over whelming, and yes it’s threatening and yes it causes insecurity and concerns about what are men are *truly* * really* about. I am sorry that you don’t want to be honest about that, but from a woman, that’s about as honest as it gets

 

 

 

Are you in turn open to discussing such things with her? Or do you try to make her feel bad about her dislike for porn? I’m just curious because you don’t seem very open to the female side of it and I know when I have tried to talk to me about it I have closed up because it was very obvious where his loyalty lay. And it wasn’t with me. It was with the porn. So at the end of the day your wife ends up with a man that beats it off to porn behind her back.

 

 

I wish there were more men that treated their wives girlfriends like they truly deserved. Gave them the loyalty they truly deserve instead of giving it to porn. There should be more men like that, that’s for sure! Not more men that spend more time looking at more pornography and making their wives feel bad about it.

 

Now, why is porn bad again?

 

It's not bad for men. It's great for men. Men can have their cake and eat it too and don't have to make any kind of real commitment to the woman they claim the love.

 

Porn isn't about what women want from men. It's easier for men to accept porn because porn is about all the ways men wished women were. All the ways men obviously find real women lacking and need to have this whole world where they can have exactly the kind of woman they really want why they settle for their "real life" women. So yes, porn isn't bad for men. Porn isn't calling men names and degrading them. Porn is great for men. All those men out there, fathers, brothers, husbands, lawyers, doctors, who have loving women in their life and it's never enough for men. Because at the end of the day, men need porn.

 

When I go out in public and I see a man with his family, the real truth is behind that is a man that wants to watch 18 year old with implants have sex. That is the sad truth and alot of women are on the side lines paying for it. You can love a man, try to meet his needs sexually and emotionally, have his children and at the end of the day it's never enough. Porn is what men want. Porn caters to men and what men wished women were. Not what women wished men were. So yes, porn is great for men. men aren't the ones being degraded and used and substituted. Men aren't the ones being told they aren't good enough.

 

if you can't discuss your fantasizes with your wife, perhaps you haven't created a bond or environment that makes her feel safe in expressing things.

 

If masturbation is okay to expect people to not think of others? Do you ever fantasize about anything other than your husband when you do so?

 

Again if porn is that big of a deal why do you stay married to someone that looks at it?

 

Please do not group all women into your beliefs. Not all of us have such a narrow definition on what is acceptable for men and what isn't. It isn't "natural" that ALL women find porn to be wrong.

 

And you should state your posts on what you are really saying. Porn is wrong for you, porn makes you feel bad and your significant other disappoints you when he views it. He negates your relationship by not accepting your beliefs on it and following suit.

 

Have you guys been to therapy to deal with this issue? It is obvious something you guys really need to address.

[Order & Chaos]

I have to admit, sometimes I do the same thing.

 

Also, I often wonder when I see a man checking me out, if he is going to go home and masturbate to that image. It creeps me out to think about, but I can't help it. I think I've gained too much knowledge about men via the internet.

 

I kind of wish I could go back to the days when I was naive and thought like a previous poster had mentioned, that my BF only had eyes for me and was unaware of how most men operate.

 

You seriously think that!?! Just b/c you think a guy is checking you out?

 

You know I know men aren't perfect but my goodness I feel some much more accepted with my male friends than most women I talk to. Goodness life is too short to be this unhappy and critical of others.

[Jennifer26]

You seriously think that!?! Just b/c you think a guy is checking you out?

 

You know I know men aren't perfect but my goodness I feel some much more accepted with my male friends than most women I talk to. Goodness life is too short to be this unhappy and critical of others.

I've been told numerous times, by men, that often when they're checking out a woman they're saving a picture so to speak, for later on.

 

I didn't believe it. I thought there is no way that men do this, maybe some, but certainly not most.

 

But I've been told time and time again (mainly online discussions) that many men do infact do this.

 

It isn't that I am being critical of men. I was told that this is what men do, so now I can't help but to think of it if I do notice a man checking me out.

[ahah2322]

and so what if they do? i don't see anything wrong with that at all. it's all fantasies.

[Jennifer26]

and so what if they do? i don't see anything wrong with that at all. it's all fantasies.

I was just saying it makes me feel awkward with this knowledge when I catch a guy looking. Before I would feel more flattered I guess, but now I feel kind of weird about it.

[Starman]

I was just saying it makes me feel awkward with this knowledge when I catch a guy looking. Before I would feel more flattered I guess, but now I feel kind of weird about it.

 

So basically nothing that guys are doing is any different now then it was 10 yrs ago when you were younger, but now that you think they are all taking "mental snapshots" for later use you feel wierd? Interesting.

 

I would think most women would get a little kick out of guys checking them out without over thinking it.

[Jennifer26]

So basically nothing that guys are doing is any different now then it was 10 yrs ago when you were younger, but now that you think they are all taking "mental snapshots" for later use you feel wierd? Interesting.

 

I would think most women would get a little kick out of guys checking them out without over thinking it.

Like I said, I did find it flattering. I would have never dreamed that men actually did more than just look, and then move along.

 

I actually got into quite the argument with a group of men on a different forum and accused them of just being perverts. They insisted I was naive and that it is pretty common for men to do this.

 

I argued why would men need to use these visual aids, when they have an overabundance of free porn online and I was told that sometimes for men it can be exciting to think about a real person rather than a porn star they know they could never obtain. But that they still like the porn too.

 

Trust me, I did not come up with this on my own, and I don't even know if I fully believe it. But I do know now I can't stop thinking about it. I'm not a prude and I'm not totally disgusted by the thought... but now I get to a point where if I catch a guy looking I almost blush with the thought.

 

I know, it is crazy. I think I need to stay away from online forums.

[Starman]

Like I said, I did find it flattering. I would have never dreamed that men actually did more than just look, and then move along.

 

I actually got into quite the argument with a group of men on a different forum and accused them of just being perverts. They insisted I was naive and that it is pretty common for men to do this.

 

I argued why would men need to use these visual aids, when they have an overabundance of free porn online and I was told that sometimes for men it can be exciting to think about a real person rather than a porn star they know they could never obtain. But that they still like the porn too.

 

Trust me, I did not come up with this on my own, and I don't even know if I fully believe it. But I do know now I can't stop thinking about it. I'm not a prude and I'm not totally disgusted by the thought... but now I get to a point where if I catch a guy looking I almost blush with the thought.

 

I know, it is crazy. I think I need to stay away from online forums.

 

Well some women actually get turned on knowing they can have that sort of reaction on men.

 

For me though, yeah I notice attractive women at work and out and about. Do I fantasize about each and every one of them? Of course not, that would be impossible to do. I would think most guys have their favorite fantasies, whether that person is a celebrity, porn star, neighbor, co-worker, and they use those fantasies over and over again, with only once and a while throwing in a new girl in. At least that is how I am, I can check out a hot chick and not have to run home and think about her while I'm masturbating.

 

So yes, those guys are accurate that they do fantasy about a girl they pass on the street...from time to time. But I bet that 90% of their fanasty time is spent with an old familiar fantasy that they know works everytime.

[trust]

Jennifer: I want to make sure I understand you. I pass by you and look at you. Now you are thinking about me, thinking about having sex with you. I'm thinking about you thinking about me having sex with you. This equals you thinking about having sex with me. You are now just as guilty. Did we just have sex? No? Then why are you blushing? You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

All kidding aside. You are over thinking this.

[Jennifer26]

Jennifer: I want to make sure I understand you. I pass by you and look at you. Now you are thinking about me, thinking about having sex with you. I'm thinking about you thinking about me having sex with you. This equals you thinking about having sex with me. You are now just as guilty. Did we just have sex? No? Then why are you blushing? You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

All kidding aside. You are over thinking this.

ROFL!

 

Yeah, I probably am. I am honestly not that upset by it, it was just an interesting piece of information that was passed on to me that I found kind of, er, interesting..

 

As for the original issue, I just want to reiterate I don't really have an issue with porn itself. Infact sometimes I find it kind of fun to incorporate it in the bedroom. Kind of like a threesome, without the risk of consequences.

 

If my husband could keep his use to a more moderate level, I think I'd be perfectly okay with it.

[trust]

ROFL!

 

If my husband could keep his use to a more moderate level, I think I'd be perfectly okay with it.

 

Jen: When I replied, I had only read your latest post. I just saw your original post. Didn't know you had an addiction on your hands. Hmmmmm....you sound like you have a pretty good attitude right now... but I have been around girls enough to know that they are a lot like ducks...they look beautiful, peaceful, and serene floating on the surface of the water, but underneath, they are paddling like crazy trying to get where they're going.

 

Don't loose your sense of humor. It's extremely attractive. I can't really relate to what you're going through since I'm a guy. And I can't even make you feel better by doing a "me too" concerning the porn and marriage. When I was married, I was totally in love with my wife (not saying he's not totally in love with you). My wife was a totally hot pageant girl which was great, but I later found that it didn't really matter much what she looked like..her good looks only got my attention in the beginning. I had dropped the porn habit when I met her. Very weird thing happened. I lost total interest in porn AND I had lost total interest in even looking at other women. That was VERY odd because I'm one of the worst guys I know when it comes to checking out and chatting with women (sorry, I love beautiful girls and they can't seem to resist me because I'm so darn good-looking, charming, and funny and all...just kidding).

 

Personally, I think it's a sad thing. And if it bothers you, then it's especially sad. As for your self esteem....I've seen this before. You are well on your way to being ripe for an affair. Don't do it. Don't be that duck who has her feathers all messed up on the back of her head.

[Order & Chaos]

I've been told numerous times, by men, that often when they're checking out a woman they're saving a picture so to speak, for later on.

 

I didn't believe it. I thought there is no way that men do this, maybe some, but certainly not most.

 

But I've been told time and time again (mainly online discussions) that many men do infact do this.

 

It isn't that I am being critical of men. I was told that this is what men do, so now I can't help but to think of it if I do notice a man checking me out.

 

Yes and I believe most things I read on the internet. Must be a fact.

 

Your problem isn't porn, it's a lack of compromising between you and your husband based on differing beliefs.

[Lookingforward]

Like I said, I did find it flattering. I would have never dreamed that men actually did more than just look, and then move along.

 

I actually got into quite the argument with a group of men on a different forum and accused them of just being perverts. They insisted I was naive and that it is pretty common for men to do this.

 

I argued why would men need to use these visual aids, when they have an overabundance of free porn online and I was told that sometimes for men it can be exciting to think about a real person rather than a porn star they know they could never obtain. But that they still like the porn too.

 

Trust me, I did not come up with this on my own, and I don't even know if I fully believe it. But I do know now I can't stop thinking about it. I'm not a prude and I'm not totally disgusted by the thought... but now I get to a point where if I catch a guy looking I almost blush with the thought.

 

I know, it is crazy. I think I need to stay away from online forums.

 

men aren't the only ones to do the "save the 'snapshot' thing" - women do it too LOL