Another porn question...

[trubella]

So if you are doing everything in those movies that the porn chics do and better, why does he still need to turn to porn?.

 

well from my guys perspective, sometimes you just want to rub one off without worrying about the added "pressure" of having to please your partner as well all the time. porn is there to guide him along so to speak.

 

its quick and easy stress reliever for him, who am i to deny him that.

 

im not stupid enough to think he fantasizes about me all the time, just like he knows i dont think of him all time when im *alone*

[torranceshipman]

JS, I think it's hard to intellectualize when you need to rely on generalisations and assumptions about what YOU think men want in order to form these arguments, when really, everyone is an individual and you don't really know what each individual man thinks when they watch porn. If everyone saw the world exactly as you do then yes, you'd have a point, but we're all different and I think it's unfair to be so damning of all men like you are. Also, please acknowledge that a lot of women enjoy watching it too!! True, you may well be right about a minority of men, but not, in my view, the majority.

 

And about the comparing thing...I'm not naive - I just don't take the concept of comparing seriously at all. Guys like porn stars because they are really dirty and convenient (i.e. stored on a dvd and dirty enough to turn them on enough to get their rocks off in 5 minutes). They're just something to jack off to. Whereas a girlfriend....se's a totally different thing - a real, beautiful woman that the guy is crazy about, who he thinks about a lot and is in love with. The two just aren't comparable.

 

And if you're talking about comparing the sex, in reality any self respecting guy would run a mile if these girls hit on them, as they are skanky and have been with about 200 men or something...there wouldn't be a seconds' hesitation in them choosing their girl over that!

 

I literally have no idea why you are SO threatened by this...do you have self esteem issues, or has a boyfriend treated you very badly in the past and used porn as a way of making you feel bad about yourself? If its a case of finding porn distasteful I understand that, but I don't think it follows that people that watch it should be so damned for it!!

[Jersey Shortie]

JS, I think it's hard to intellectualize when you need to rely on generalisations and assumptions about what YOU think men want in order to form these arguments, when really, everyone is an individual and you don't really know what each individual man thinks when they watch porn.

 

Okay but if you are going to use that argument, then that can equally be applied to your generalization that most men don't compare the woman in porn to their woman. Or that most men don't want to be with those women.

 

And if you're talking about comparing the sex, in reality any self respecting guy would run a mile if these girls hit on them, as they are skanky and have been with about 200 men or something...there wouldn't be a seconds' hesitation in them choosing their girl over that!

 

Then why do they choose the idea of the girl in the porn movie over their woman? Because guys do that all the time. Even if it's just for 5 minutes. I don't get it.

 

I literally have no idea why you are SO threatened by this...do you have self esteem issues, or has a boyfriend treated you very badly in the past and used porn as a way of making you feel bad about yourself? If its a case of finding porn distasteful I understand that, but I don't think it follows that people that watch it should be so damned for it!!

 

 

Well, yeah I have my insecurities, I don't deny that. But that isn't the only reason I feel the way I do about porn. I hate the misogony in it. I hate that there are millions of guys out there with wives, daughters and familes that buy into porn stereotypes. And there are a million other reasons as well.

 

I also get frustrated when people say "oh you just are insecure/ have self esteem issues". I find it ironic that we are suppose to be so understanding and open to men and their porn use, using their basic caveman instincts as an excuse to justify behaviors. Yet we condemn the women that are concerned about it and expect them to be so highly evolved not to feel threatened by the millions of porn women out there that he is seeking to masturbate to. Even though both are pretty basic emotions. We justify men's actions and are suppose to be so understanding but when is that recipocated in return? I think it's equally natural for a man to be turned on by porn as it is for a woman to feel threatened by it. We expect women to be so emotionally strong and reserved as to not feel insecure yet we don't expect the same for men because we justify their porn use. Which is basically them just using their emotions as a justification to do something.

 

As for the boyfriend thing. It isn't so simplisctic as having dated bad men. I haven't had anyone treat me badly but I've had experiences with men in regards to porn and strip clubs that left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I am sick of having relationships be about me, him and his stupid porn. Every guy I have dated as looked at porn to some extent. And when you try to talk about it with them, they lie or pretend they are something they aren't because they are too afraid that you might actually discover they like porn and think differently about them for it. And frankly, why shouldn't you think differently about him? Considering porn isn't about respecting women and considering the over inflated ideas about women and sexuality that most women try hard to fight everyday and be okay with their "real" selves. Hard to be confident when you try not to buy in to stereotypes that the man you love so very much obvisously does.

 

It's frustrating. And frankly, it makes me wonder why I bother trying since he can get the same reaction out of typing "boobs" and be done with it. I am also sick of the staring at other women when we go out, the comments, the complete selfishness when it comes to guy's sexuality. It seems like anything is an excuse because a guy is a 'guy" after all and that is excuse enough to do anything short of sleeping with other girls.

[Mr. Lucky]

I am also sick of the staring at other women when we go out, the comments, the complete selfishness when it comes to guy's sexuality. It seems like anything is an excuse because a guy is a 'guy" after all and that is excuse enough to do anything short of sleeping with other girls.

It doesn't sound like you like "guys" very much. Have you considered a romantic relationship with a woman?

 

Mr. Lucky

[torranceshipman]

'I am also sick of the staring at other women when we go out, the comments, the complete selfishness when it comes to guy's sexuality. It seems like anything is an excuse because a guy is a 'guy" after all and that is excuse enough to do anything short of sleeping with other girls. '

 

WOAH! No-one is saying 'its ok to watch porn so it's ok to act like a jerk'!! That behaviour should never be tolerated. I see where your attitude is coming from now. This is not about watching a bit of porn, its about a disrespectful guy that treats his girl like total crap and doesnt respect her. If this is your boyfriend you're talking about, dump the loser. And if these are male friends of yours, dump them too - my male friends or boyfriend would NEVER act this way around me.

 

You're making too big a leap to link that behavior to watching porn...the men you are talking to are social pariahs, simple as that....

[Jersey Shortie]

It doesn't sound like you like "guys" very much. Have you considered a romantic relationship with a woman?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It it doesn't seem like most men even like /respect of care for women since they are such pro-activitists of pornography. Something that completely disrespects women all around. And if men don't really believe porn disrepsects women, then they would be A-okay with their daughters, wives, Sos being in them..and we all know they aren't. Funny how you think I don't like men yet women should understand that men really do care and respect women despite their love for things that treat women less then human. That is Ironic Mr. Lucky.

 

 

WOAH! No-one is saying 'its ok to watch porn so it's ok to act like a jerk'!!

 

Isn't that the justifiaction that is given time and time again? "he is a *guy* so it's okay if he likes watching women being treated like "wh*res". "He is a guy so it's okay if he watches the 18 year old girl walk by while he is with his SO.."..."He is a guy so anything sexual he does is okay because that's what *gus* do". SOrry but these are the type of excuses that are given all the time and I think it's crappy.

 

 

This is not about watching a bit of porn, its about a disrespectful guy that treats his girl like total crap and doesnt respect her.

 

You completely missed what I was saying. And I think people have a tendency to try and downplay porn use when they are defending it. How man men really just use a "bit" of porn. My guess is not many considering it's a multi billion industry. Of course, our ideas about what makes up a "bit" of porn could be different. I have heard so many men downplay their own porn use and say "oh I don't look at it that much". only to come out to find that they look at it pretty regularly.

 

 

 

 

If this is your boyfriend you're talking about, dump the loser. And if these are male friends of yours, dump them too - my male friends or boyfriend would NEVER act this way around me.

 

You really aren't undestanding what I am saying. *shrug*

 

You're making too big a leap to link that behavior to watching porn...the men you are talking to are social pariahs, simple as that....

 

No. I am talking about everyday normal men. I am not talking about addicts.

[torranceshipman]

I think you should give up dating, seriously, you seem to really despise men and think really low of them.

 

On another note, LOTS of women watch porn. Do you think they are scumbags too? And of the women that do watch porn (using your example now), how many do you think would really want their boyfriend or son taking part in these movies? None, obviously, just as the men who watch it wouldnt want the females in their life doing it. So is that also 'ironic' of the women, as you stated in your earlier post about men?

 

I guess that makes all female porn watchers dirty, porn obsessed scumbags too, or is that not the way it works?

[soserious1]

Just returned from errands with my husband, he saw 2 hotties today that were so jaw dropping beautiful that conversation stopped mid-sentence as he scanned them coming and going. He was so scrambled by the visuals that he was almost stuttering as as he asked me to repeat what it was that I'd said.

 

I smiled sweetly and told him that what I'd said is that I wished that I were dead.

[torranceshipman]

'I wish I were divorced and you might soon be' might've been better :laugh:

[Jersey Shortie]

I think you should give up dating, seriously, you seem to really despise men and think really low of them

 

What have I ever said that gives you the impression I depise them, other then my disagreement with pornography and the way men use pornography? You really have no grounds to stand on. Please be fair though. If you think I despise men for my dislike of porn, then perhaps men despise women for their like of porn. Since porn isn't anything close to be being about respecting women. And believe me, there seriously are times when I don't know what the point is trying with men. been there, done that.

 

 

 

I guess that makes all female porn watchers dirty, porn obsessed scumbags too, or is that not the way it works?

 

I think men and women are treated differently in porn and by porn. Women get called sl*ts for being in porn and men don't get that same negative label. That is one small example. But I do think women are treated differently in porn then men are.

[fral945]

I think men and women are treated differently in porn and by porn. Women get called sl*ts for being in porn and men don't get that same negative label.

 

What about those poor male pornstars with the big cocks? They are just objectified and used like a piece of meat. They don't make nearly the money the women do and many times don't even get to show their faces on video. I feel sorry for them.

[michelangelo]

Well, that isn't the case for me. I am pretty open minded in bed. I just draw the line at having other women in bed with me.

 

 

 

I am sure they didn't. But the amount that is out there today, the amount that is expected to be accepted, is over whelming. The playboys of yesterday is not like the interent porn of today.

 

Um, I was around for the playboys of yesterday and can tell you that even back then there was hardcore/softcore available of all stripe if you wanted to see it.

 

Maybe today there is easier access, I'll give you that.

 

It may interest you to know that some of the earliest artwork ever made, from cavemen (many thousands of years ago) to the Greek and Roman civilizations is erotic or pornographic in nature.

 

I'm wondering if there was somje cave lady all pissed at mr caveman for carving one of those little statues of a lady with big bazooms, railing on about how that awful man was objectifying women.

[Sum1'sGot2RepThe530]

Ouch. Dr. Phil. I actually can’t stand that guy. And it’s cool that you call me a “semi-constant annoyance” as well. I’d hate to be similar to you. So pointing out our differences is fine as well. The lazy thing to do is avoid talking or even addressing the subject of sexual integrity and pass me off to some stupid moral high ground. It’s what I expected of you. If you have low sexual integrity and your wife has low sexual integrity then great! I’m sure that works. Sounds like you were made for each other. After considering the varying level of integrity amongst married couples, I think your point was Jen would see that it would be “ok” if she just dumbs it down and accepts it. For real? Is that the best you’ve got?

 

You're logic was "I won't talk about integrity...but hey look at me! I do it... my wife does it...and we're still married. This means it's ok." Seriously?? And you did an end-run around sexual integrity when you said "the women that this affects should stop letting it affect their self esteem so much."... you did a "table-turn" and now this is the women's problem? wow...there's some anti-wisdom right there.

 

So to recap, being a “porno-king (porn in marriage watcher and promoter)” does put you in the low to no integrity camp. You just lack the understanding to realize it. The bum in the street doesn't see himself as a bum in the street - he's just homeless.

You're right, I should have clarified some points. I labeled you a "semi-constant annoyance", because you were only present on a couple of pages of this thread, not the whole thing. But hey, I didn't come on here until now, and 2 more pages have been added since my last post.

 

Another thing: my original point (which I should have stated more clearly), was that in our instance (my wife and myself's occaisonal usage) I think it's ok, but in Jen's instance, it's clearly not ok. I definitely agree that her husband subscribes to a whole lotta issues. And it's not Jen's problem, it's his. I just think that occaisonal usage is ok and if the one spouse takes issue with that (man OR woman), then they're out of line. Sorry I didn't state that originally.

 

If what we do in our marriage puts us in your "low integrity camp", then so be it. We "realize it" and are not going to lose sleep over it.

[Sum1'sGot2RepThe530]

If your wife is asleep most of the times when you're ready to get it on,how does that equal a terrific sexual life? Not trying to be picky here but the two statements seem at odds with each other.

 

And as far as the porn goes, I have no problem seeing and knowing that the stars are all "hotter,younger and have bigger boobs" and my husband has no problems letting me know this in ways subtle and not so subtle.

 

My issue is not with the porn per say but rather with a man who seemingly wants it all ways...

 

I can accept that he lusts/longs for things that I can never be or never give him.. what I can't accept is that I'm supposed to walk around acting like I'm in a great marriage with a loving husband.Reality... he doesn't want me,I'm too old to excite him sexually. He's angry because I speak reality and reject the chaste,non-sexual love he offers up as proof of his devotion.I also feel that on some level it offends him that at my age I still have any interest in sexuality and he gets upset because I refuse to stay quietly in the grandmother/mother/sisterly love compartment he's placed me in.

We do it a lot during the morning or daytime usually. My wife's anemic so she's usually in bed by 10 pm, and I'm not. So that's what I meant by that.

 

All I can say about your situation though is that I'm sorry you're going through that. Doesn't sound fair at all.

[Sum1'sGot2RepThe530]

Lastly, Sum1'sGot2RepThe530, It hardly makes sense to be “touting around” *your* arch nemesis catch phrases from your moral low ground (“I’m no saint”, “you’re a Dr. Phil”, “You’re on a moral high ground”, “it’s no big deal”, “you’re unrealistic”, “you think your opinion is gospel” ) while putting me down for doing the same thing.

Ok you got me. BS called.

And on a totally unrelated note: Are you / were you in the military? I wanted to give you a sincere thanks for serving our Country.

 

I'm going to guess his ID is based on the fact he's from Northern CA...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Ok, I'll address the speculation. Yes, I'm a former Marine. Served from 2002-2006, with a tour at Camp Fallujah, Iraq for 7.5 months in 2004 during OIF III. I was a computer network technician though, so I wasn't kicking doors down and busting skulls, just taking mortar and rocket fire.

 

And yes, my ID is based on my need to bring attention to the North side of California, the side few people know about.

 

And I'm going to guess his avatar (which I thought was creative and funny), is based on the likelihood that possibly he's in a non-Army branch of the military. My dad (retired military) used to joke with the other branch's as being sort of "inferior" to his. That avatar reminds me of that behavior.

 

Correct.

[Sum1'sGot2RepThe530]

Easy to say when it's not your gender being degraded. ANd when it's not your wife enjoying watching other men being treated in a negative manner. I will say that I often find that men attempt to down-play porn, while you think that I am over-playing it, and maybe somewhere in the middle of that is the real truth.

 

 

 

Yeap, that is certainly the point. Bigger then life ideas, that no real woman can compete with. So the other women are always "Bigger" and "better". And watching your guy get off to something that is so very obviously a bigger idea and concept then what he has, is kind of a little disconcernting. You could understand that right?

 

I think it's easy for a guy to say that woman shouldn't let it effect their self esteem but the reality is that porn pretty much exploits everyone of woman's inherent insecurity about their looks and attraction, it's not exploiting men's because it cater to men. And porn has such a market consuming number or variety and sexual aspects, that for a woman it can be pretty darn over whelming.

 

The truth is that most porn caters to men, it's not about the ways women find men lacking. However, it does seem to be about the way's men find women lacking. So it's easy for guys to say that it shouldn't make a woman feel a certain way but then I guess a woman could in return say that porn shouldn't make men feel horny. We could both sit here and say the effect something should or shouldn't have on someone or we can be realistic about the effect it can sometimes cause.

 

 

 

I don't think any woman honestly fears that her husband /boyfriend is going to run off with a porn star. So I don't really understand this argument. Because it's like saying that if he did have the option to run off with one, then you should be worried. Which for alot of woman, is just as bad as him watching said porn woman and thinking about her.

 

 

 

Come on though, you aren't looking at porn because you are being so benevolent about your feelings and attitude towards her. I dislike when men try to make it sound like they use porn out of consideration for their SO. Porn isn't about consideration.

 

Good points. All I'm going to say is that you're a woman with your own point of view, and I'm a man with my own. Hopefully we learned something from each other.

[Sum1'sGot2RepThe530]

Have to agree with Trust, Jersey Shortie...I don't think you need to intellectualise so much on this particular topic. I think using porn is not a means of comparing young girls with their older wives and preferring the young girls-it is just watching hotties doing something naughty to get a bit of a thrill, and its forgotten as soon as the 'dead is done' if you know what I am referring to, lol!

 

If these men look at porn, as I said before, I consider it a need being met - and a need that some women meet through enjoying porn too. It doesnt float my boat personally, but fine, I have no problem with people who do it (as long as it isnt extreme/weird in nature)...and I wouldn't care one way or another if I found out my lovely boyfriend watches porn. In my view it wouldnt bother me any more than finding out he masturbates and hell, all men do that!! Well technically I suppose they'd do both at the same time but you know what I mean.... :D

Well said!

[Sum1'sGot2RepThe530]

And if you're talking about comparing the sex, in reality any self respecting guy would run a mile if these girls hit on them, as they are skanky and have been with about 200 men or something...there wouldn't be a seconds' hesitation in them choosing their girl over that! Then why do they choose the idea of the girl in the porn movie over their woman? Because guys do that all the time. Even if it's just for 5 minutes. I don't get it.

Because it's just an IDEA. No actual physical cheating or risk of disease. This goes back to my "dude's not going to run off with a pornstar" argument, that you didn't understand earlier.

 

So I think we can conclude from all of this that you might be single for a long time unless you can get lucky and find a man who never has, and never will, watch porn. I wish you luck (seriously).

 

Now I'm off to bed. Goodnight. Hope I didn't annoy you all for posting 6 times in a row.

[JerseyShortie]

Fral

What about those poor male pornstars with the big cocks? They are just objectified and used like a piece of meat. They don't make nearly the money the women do and many times don't even get to show their faces on video. I feel sorry for them.

 

They don't make the same money because men would have sex with those women without the money and go merrily on their way without a care in the world. Women pay a bigger emotional and social price for it because women, regardless of what porn wants you to believe, don't have emotionless sex as easily as men do. Women release a bonding chemical when they have sex with a man, making them more attached then the man. Obviously, a woman in porn knows what she is getting into. I am not arguing that. But women get paid more because it comes for a bigger price for women: phsyically, emotionally, and socially. I don't think you can really disagree with that. Women are "skanks" for liking sex and having it but men aren't. And that point is illustrated all over these topics about porn by both men and women. Women get called names, and the men don't.

 

As for the guys that don't even show their faces, I would safely bet they don't because they don't want to be recongnized. Not because they fear degradtion. Your arguments are not applicable here.

 

 

michelango

Um, I was around for the playboys of yesterday and can tell you that even back then there was hardcore/softcore available of all stripe if you wanted to see it.

 

Maybe today there is easier access, I'll give you that.

 

It may interest you to know that some of the earliest artwork ever made, from cavemen (many thousands of years ago) to the Greek and Roman civilizations is erotic or pornographic in nature.

 

I'm wondering if there was somje cave lady all pissed at mr caveman for carving one of those little statues of a lady with big bazooms, railing on about how that awful man was objectifying women.

 

I have no doubt that there was hardcore porn available. But what is out there today is much more in your face, easier to get then ever before. A man picking up a Playboy once a month is not like it is today where you have millions of men in committed relationships going to the internet a couple times a week or even everyday.

 

As for your caveman comparison. A caveman drawing a naked women with big "bazooms" is no where near the extent to what alot of porn incorporates today. Surgical enhancements, make-up, lighteting, positioning...etc etc etc. I never said being interested in the female naked body was bad or unnatural. However, alot of what porn is about is unnatural yet it's put on some sort of pedestal of female beauty. And the degrading nature of porn goes way beyond a naked woman draw on a cave wall. I also bet that they did not spend as much time on it as men spend on porn.

 

 

I just think that occaisonal usage is ok.....

 

How would you define occasional usage? How would the guys here define occaisonal usage? Because I have heard men say this before, downplaying their porn use, only to come and find out that "occasional usage" actually means "quite regularly".

 

Good points. All I'm going to say is that you're a woman with your own point of view, and I'm a man with my own. Hopefully we learned something from each other.

 

Good points but you really don't care do you because most men will continue to view porn. I really just don't even think men want to learn where some women stand on this. And if they do learn, they don't care because their desire to look at porn trumps all.

 

 

Because it's just an IDEA. No actual physical cheating or risk of disease. This goes back to my "dude's not going to run off with a pornstar" argument, that you didn't understand earlier.

 

Yeah, no one is arguing that it's actually phsyically cheating or risk of disease being invovled. What I understand about the "dude's not going to run off with the pornstar" argument is that men are saying that man won't run away with a porn star because he will never have the option to do so. So in his mind, he can have sex with x amount of porn stars wishing he could. But if he actually did have the option, well who knows what he would do because after all pornstar women are men's ultimate fantasy. So I don't understand how a man could think that would make a woman feel secure in a relationship with him. Like that should make all those women out there that love their man feel really good knowing that the only reason a man is with her and not the porn star is because he doesn't have the option to be with the porn star. And seriously, comments like this are made and then we expect women to be confident in the relationship with men when men are basically saying the only reason porn is safe because he doesn't have the option to be with that girl. Do you not see how insulting that is the woman in the relationship? Basically saying that the porn star option is better in theory and that the only reason he wouldn't leave his real life girlfriend with her imperfect body is because he doesn't have the option to have the porn star? Do you seriously not see the diconnect between that line of thinking?

 

So I think we can conclude from all of this that you might be single for a long time unless you can get lucky and find a man who never has, and never will, watch porn. I wish you luck (seriously).

 

Actually, am not single. What I have learned though that I will never be completely vunerable or open with men or have the type or close relationship I really an hungry for with man. As men don't create the environment for that to happen. Their loyalties lie with porn, not with the real women in their lives and not in protecting or respecting women. As much as I love men and will have relationships with them, I will never be completely vunerable with one as men have taught me that they don't really value that anyway. What they value is their pornography and will do anything in their power to have their cake and eat it too.

[michelangelo]

 

Actually, am not single. What I have learned though that I will never be completely vunerable or open with men or have the type or close relationship I really an hungry for with man. As men don't create the environment for that to happen. Their loyalties lie with porn, not with the real women in their lives and not in protecting or respecting women. As much as I love men and will have relationships with them, I will never be completely vunerable with one as men have taught me that they don't really value that anyway. What they value is their pornography and will do anything in their power to have their cake and eat it too.

 

OK, did you really mean to write this? That you believe that porn is what is preventing you from have a full intimate relationship with a man? Men's loyalties to porn? And linking that "loyalty" to not protecting the women in their lives?

 

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

 

Stunning -- and sad.

 

Why? I think because you have a lot of hostility towards men and have latched onto this as your expression of it.

 

I really think somebody specific really did a number on you early on in your life. I am sorry for you.

[Jersey Shortie]

OK, did you really mean to write this? That you believe that porn is what is preventing you from have a full intimate relationship with a man? Men's loyalties to porn? And linking that "loyalty" to not protecting the women in their lives?

 

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

 

Stunning -- and sad.

 

If you have read alot of the porn threads here that women have written about, you will see that they feel the same way to varying degrees. Maybe it is sad but that's the reality of how alot of men are.

 

 

Why? I think because you have a lot of hostility towards men and have latched onto this as your expression of it.

 

Not Hostility..bitterness yes...but not really hostility. Even if I come off gun-ho in my posts.

 

I really think somebody specific really did a number on you early on in your life. I am sorry for you.

 

It's just what I have learned to come and expect from men.

 

Guys just always end up standing by the pornography. that's what is important to alot of men.

 

If I feel sorry for you too does that make us even?

[Jennifer26]

In some situations women do enjoy the porn too, and will even incorporate it in the bedroom. In these situations, I guess I see nothing wrong with the porn.

 

What about all of those situations out there where women have expressed to their significant others that they are NOT okay with porn? Is it still okay for men to go and do it anyway? To lie about it, and hide they fact they do it? Is that okay? Because many men out there are doing this. And then they go and make up excuses for why it is okay.

 

If you're going to look at porn, and you're not willing to part with it - then make that clearly known. I hate that so many men out there feel it is acceptable to be deceptive about it. It's not. If she can't handle your porn use, and you can't give it up and no compromise can be made then maybe it is best you go and marry a woman who is okay with it. Lying and hiding things isn't okay period. I don't care if it is porn or a different issue.

 

I've seen so many men give the justification that they're men, and that is what men do, so women should just deal with it. And that is good enough reason to lie about it to their wives/gf's. Because the woman is just being unreasonable and unrealistic.

 

And whether you think it is ridiculous or not that a woman should feel bad about herself over the porn, it isn't fair to continue a relationship knowing this is the outcome and act utterly selfish towards someone else's feelings. Especially not someone you claim to love. If porn is nothing more than just some flippant past time that men indulge in every so often for a quick release, it shouldn't be so difficult to give it up then if it is causing some grief to someone you love. I think many men are far more reliant on the porn then they care to admit.

 

I know my husband falls into the category of people who use it compulsively. And this past weekend I found out a lot as to why he does this, which I won't go into because it is far too personal.

 

We got into a rather long discussion again on the porn, and things that have happened over the years. I asked him outright why he married me. I made it ever so clear to him in the dating phase of our relationship my stances on things, such as the strip clubs. He went to a strip club before we had ever moved in together and he told me about it. My reaction was not good, and he told me he was sorry. That for so long he had been a bachelor and he wasn't used to considering another person when doing these things. He agreed it was wrong for him to go, and told me he'd never be doing that again. But he lied about that. He did go again, after he'd asked me to marry him and after I was carrying our first child. He said the other night he went when I was pregnant because, even knowing how hurt I would be because he wasn't at the same level with me then as he is now. I just don't understand this. He asked me to marry him. I never even brought up marriage. The ring was a complete surprise. He hadn't knocked me up, and he wasn't bound to me in any way. He did not have to marry me. But he decided that he wanted to, and then he tells me that he didn't care enough about me back then to not go to a strip club and in his words have "tits and pussy in his face." It utterly sickens me. Even though he has said it was wrong, I just find I can't trust him. He told me the first time it was wrong and that he cared too much about me to hurt me, but that didn't stop him the next time.

 

He's told me many times he'd cut down or stop the porn, because he cares too much about me, but that has never happened either.

 

Sometimes I wish he had never asked me to marry him. Then I might have had a chance to meet someone who truly respected me, and didn't do things they know will hurt me. What he is doing is so selfish.

[michelangelo]

Not Hostility..bitterness yes...but not really hostility. Even if I come off gun-ho in my posts.

 

It's just what I have learned to come and expect from men.

 

 

So, you do not see bitterness as hostility?

 

Just flipped through my dictionary and found this definition of bitterness:

 

A feeling of deep and bitter anger and ill-will.

 

Seems as though you can't own your own feelings.

 

if anything, bitterness sounds like an extreme form of hostility worth addressing within yourself so you can be happy.

 

 

Guys just always end up standing by the pornography. that's what is important to alot of men.

 

If I feel sorry for you too does that make us even?

 

I think you attach importance to porn that most men do not. The opposite of your bitterness towards porn is not a loyalty to porn, an obsession taking over a life. It just is not that way. Ten minutes of viewing as an aide during masturbation is not an obsession taking over a life.

 

It's like anything in life that is found interesting. Women like pretty shoes. Some buy more than a few pair, they love shoes. Imelda Marcos loved shoes so much she bought thousands of pairs. They are in a museum now in the Philippines as proof of the corruption of excess.

 

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that most men spend far more time and interest on their women, their kids, their hobbies (have you seen a golf freak's set of clubs?), than on what you see as an all-consuming interest that is a rejection of their woman's sexuality.

 

You don't have to feel sorry for me, I'm doing fine.

[michelangelo]

In some situations women do enjoy the porn too, and will even incorporate it in the bedroom. In these situations, I guess I see nothing wrong with the porn.

 

What about all of those situations out there where women have expressed to their significant others that they are NOT okay with porn? Is it still okay for men to go and do it anyway? To lie about it, and hide they fact they do it? Is that okay? Because many men out there are doing this. And then they go and make up excuses for why it is okay.

 

If you're going to look at porn, and you're not willing to part with it - then make that clearly known. I hate that so many men out there feel it is acceptable to be deceptive about it. It's not. If she can't handle your porn use, and you can't give it up and no compromise can be made then maybe it is best you go and marry a woman who is okay with it. Lying and hiding things isn't okay period. I don't care if it is porn or a different issue.

 

I've seen so many men give the justification that they're men, and that is what men do, so women should just deal with it. And that is good enough reason to lie about it to their wives/gf's. Because the woman is just being unreasonable and unrealistic.

 

And whether you think it is ridiculous or not that a woman should feel bad about herself over the porn, it isn't fair to continue a relationship knowing this is the outcome and act utterly selfish towards someone else's feelings. Especially not someone you claim to love. If porn is nothing more than just some flippant past time that men indulge in every so often for a quick release, it shouldn't be so difficult to give it up then if it is causing some grief to someone you love. I think many men are far more reliant on the porn then they care to admit.

 

I know my husband falls into the category of people who use it compulsively. And this past weekend I found out a lot as to why he does this, which I won't go into because it is far too personal.

 

We got into a rather long discussion again on the porn, and things that have happened over the years. I asked him outright why he married me. I made it ever so clear to him in the dating phase of our relationship my stances on things, such as the strip clubs. He went to a strip club before we had ever moved in together and he told me about it. My reaction was not good, and he told me he was sorry. That for so long he had been a bachelor and he wasn't used to considering another person when doing these things. He agreed it was wrong for him to go, and told me he'd never be doing that again. But he lied about that. He did go again, after he'd asked me to marry him and after I was carrying our first child. He said the other night he went when I was pregnant because, even knowing how hurt I would be because he wasn't at the same level with me then as he is now. I just don't understand this. He asked me to marry him. I never even brought up marriage. The ring was a complete surprise. He hadn't knocked me up, and he wasn't bound to me in any way. He did not have to marry me. But he decided that he wanted to, and then he tells me that he didn't care enough about me back then to not go to a strip club and in his words have "tits and pussy in his face." It utterly sickens me. Even though he has said it was wrong, I just find I can't trust him. He told me the first time it was wrong and that he cared too much about me to hurt me, but that didn't stop him the next time.

 

He's told me many times he'd cut down or stop the porn, because he cares too much about me, but that has never happened either.

 

Sometimes I wish he had never asked me to marry him. Then I might have had a chance to meet someone who truly respected me, and didn't do things they know will hurt me. What he is doing is so selfish.

 

What you are describing is not the norm at all. Your husband is a compulsive person who lies to hide that compulsive behavior.

 

I am sorry you are experiencing that.

[Jennifer26]

What you are describing is not the norm at all. Your husband is a compulsive person who lies to hide that compulsive behavior.

 

I am sorry you are experiencing that.

He is. But that isn't what I addressed in many of my points. Many men lie and hide the porn, not only those who have deeper issues such as my husband.

 

Why do so many men feel this is okay?