My new(born again Christian) sort of Girlfriend is really getting on my nerves!

[Balthazar]

Ok, dating is really starting to suck.

 

A few weeks ago I posted about a woman I was interested in(stealing a GF thread).

 

Anyway, the woman(Joanne,30) had broken up, and a common friend(Maria,35) let me in on her newly single status. Actually, she had broken up in March but I didn't find out till late May.

 

Before I proceed, Joanne and Maria are born again Christians(or something of the sort). They go to church every Sunday and fast once or twice a week.

In fact, before I went on a date with Joanne, Maria had told me she was worried about how I would feel about her religious practices.

 

Anyway, we go out on our first date(Saturday, May 31) , which is her birthday. Dinner and drinks. Good conversation and I play around with her hands a bit. Nothing else.

Second date the following Friday(June 6); nice Italian restaurant where we have a good meal and talk some more. Conversation up to now is light and airy, nothing heavy. Some casual touching on my part, nothing too heavy.

Third Date is on Sunday(June 8). We go for drink to a nice beach side bar. During our conversation, I start playing with her hair, hold her hands a bit, and kiss her once or twice on the cheek(no reason, I just did it while we were talking). She seems a bit embarrassed but doesn't pull away or anything. Maybe a sort of deer hit by headlight look.

 

Fourth date is last Thursday, where we go to a restaurant and have drinks afterwards. This is the first date where I hold her hand and keep holding it. She doesn't let go until I do. She also reveals to me that she canceled her wedding on her wedding day when she found out her hubby-to-be was in a relationship with one of the bridesmaids(who was a friend of his). She said she turned to Christianity after this.

 

Fifth date was last Saturday. Nice seaside rock concert followed by drinks. We hold hands again, she squeezes this time.

 

So what is wrong?

 

1.I have been on 5 dates with this woman and I haven't kissed her yet. This is a first for me and I am not sure how or if to proceed.

We always kiss on the cheek at the end of dates, but surely she should have acquiesced to a full kiss on the lips by now?

2. She never calls me. She always seems happy to hear me, and will agree to anything I propose 4 times out of 5.

BUT, she never calls! I get the feeling we would never see each other again if I didn't pick up the phone and call her.

3. She rarely(if ever) uses my name. I didn't notice it at first, but now it is getting on my nerves. I mean, she never says "Hi Balt! Nice to hear from you." just "How are you?"

 

Problem is I really like Joanne and want to give it a shot. She is fun to talk to, and I have given up dating other women these past 2 weeks(well almost!).

However, things are proceeding very slowly and I am not sure how interested she is. I understand she has had her share of failed relationships, but isn't she going too slowly?

Maria tells me Joanne is interested in starting a family and that I should keep this in mind.

Finally, I don't know how her religious beliefs play into this situation; any experiences anyone?.

I am considering having a talk with her this week about these matters to see if our relationship can progress.

Again, I really like her, but I am not sure her heart is into it.

 

Any advice on how to go about things LS-ers?

 

CHeers,

[Balthazar]

That's a pretty long post , isn't it?

Sorry folks!

[dreamergrl]

Maybe fear of getting involved again?

[Jilly Bean]

If she's that "born-again", I would think she wouldn't be having sex with you until your wedding night. So, the hand-holding is probably right on par with where she wants to be right now.

 

Clearly you are dating someone who is playing by rules that are outside the normal "3 date" parameters.

 

I think she sounds interested, but also very old-fashioned and is making you do all the work. If you are THAT interested, then you will need to exercise a LOT of patience. This is going to be a long-haul situation, and only you can decide if she is worth the commitment.

[SugarKiss]

I never call a guy in the early stages of dating unless it is to return his call. Until we start kissing and becoming more exclusive and expressing more interest towards each other. I always let the guy make the move and works out just fine that. I show interest by accepting dates, if I lose interest I stop dating the guy.

 

Now on the other hand I dated a guy for about a month and a half going out every weekend and he would make all these elaborate plans to date me like getting expensive tickets to shows really nice dinner places etc but he never kissed me, I ended up asking him if he just saw me as a friend or what, his response "no but I am waiting to let the chips fall where they may" to which I ended up dumping him. I figured if he is waiting for the chips to fall I don't have another three months to play rullette, and I figured he was not that interested. Most guys I date can't keep their paws off me even on a first date, or in the least will prod to see if I'll kiss at the end of the night which I don't on a first date. Two or three dates is fine no kiss, four dates it borders on strange, more than 4 he is not that into me and only wants friendship or too shy for my liking either way it's not good enough for me.

 

If you like her go for it already, once before she puts you in the "just friends" category you are toast. It sounds like you are letting her religious beliefs hinder your romantic pass at her. Try it, she is not that saintly, othewise she would not be out drinking with you all the time.

[Balthazar]

Maybe fear of getting involved again?

 

That may be part of it Dreamer.

You know this is all your fault by the way?

 

You are too far away, so I have to date other women:love:.

[Balthazar]

I never call a guy in the early stages of dating unless it is to return his call. Until we start kissing and becoming more exclusive and expressing more interest towards each other. I always let the guy make the move and works out just fine that. I show interest by accepting dates, if I lose interest I stop dating the guy.

 

Now on the other hand I dated a guy for about a month and a half going out every weekend and he would make all these elaborate plans to date me like getting expensive tickets to shows really nice dinner places etc but he never kissed me, I ended up asking him if he just saw me as a friend or what, his response "no but I am waiting to let the chips fall where they may" to which I ended up dumping him. I figured if he is waiting for the chips to fall I don't have another three months to play rullette, and I figured he was not that interested. Most guys I date can't keep their paws off me even on a first date, or in the least will prod to see if I'll kiss at the end of the night which I don't on a first date. Two or three dates is fine no kiss, four dates it borders on strange, more than 4 he is not that into me and only wants friendship or too shy for my liking either way it's not good enough for me.

 

If you like her go for it already, once before she puts you in the "just friends" category you are toast. It sounds like you are letting her religious beliefs hinder your romantic pass at her. Try it, she is not that saintly, othewise she would not be out drinking with you all the time.

 

WOW!

 

This was a really useful post Sugar! Thanks for the insights.

[Shygirl15]

I never call a guy in the early stages of dating unless it is to return his call. Until we start kissing and becoming more exclusive and expressing more interest towards each other. I always let the guy make the move and works out just fine that. I show interest by accepting dates, if I lose interest I stop dating the guy.

 

Now on the other hand I dated a guy for about a month and a half going out every weekend and he would make all these elaborate plans to date me like getting expensive tickets to shows really nice dinner places etc but he never kissed me, I ended up asking him if he just saw me as a friend or what, his response "no but I am waiting to let the chips fall where they may" to which I ended up dumping him. I figured if he is waiting for the chips to fall I don't have another three months to play rullette, and I figured he was not that interested. Most guys I date can't keep their paws off me even on a first date, or in the least will prod to see if I'll kiss at the end of the night which I don't on a first date. Two or three dates is fine no kiss, four dates it borders on strange, more than 4 he is not that into me and only wants friendship or too shy for my liking either way it's not good enough for me.

 

If you like her go for it already, once before she puts you in the "just friends" category you are toast. It sounds like you are letting her religious beliefs hinder your romantic pass at her. Try it, she is not that saintly, othewise she would not be out drinking with you all the time.

 

Share the same views as SugarKiss. It somewhat becomes weird if there's no attempt whatsoever on male's part by the 4th date. I also don't call guys during initial stages of dating, so Balthazar, her not calling you until you call her may just be a female thing. I think she likes you a lot, perhaps just waiting for you to make that move. I do the same; never initiates anything until a guy does.

[dreamergrl]

That may be part of it Dreamer.

You know this is all your fault by the way?

 

You are too far away, so I have to date other women:love:.

 

Sure blame it all on me!

 

I'm curious, is the ex fiance the one she broke up with in March?

[Shygirl15]

She rarely(if ever) uses my name. I didn't notice it at first, but now it is getting on my nerves. I mean, she never says "Hi Balt! Nice to hear from you." just "How are you?"

 

Oh, the same happens to me with my current love interest of 3 weeks and 5 dates. Calls me EVERYDAY, but hardly ever uses my name, be it on the phone or in person. I'm beginning to wonder if he remembers my name .. So, yeah, I would like to get others intake on this one too.

[AriaIncognito]

I dont think the name thing matters. I don't use names often in general speaking either. I dont say "Hi X how are you" i say "hi, how are you". I don't figure they need to hear their name, they know I know it.

 

Also I do tend to let the guy do all the calling in the beginning as well. With the guy I'm seeing now, it's still pretty much that way unless I need to call him about something more urgent (like if we are getting together that day or whatever).

 

In general, women seem to be taught to let the man pursue, so you'll find that oftentimes, it's just that.

 

I am confused by your post though, are you 2 women, or no? Joanne and Maria and both female names, yet you say this woman was engaged to a man, so I'm confused...lol.

[AriaIncognito]

Oh and also about the kissing thing, I didn't kiss him until he kissed me. And it took him a LONG time to do it. Women usually let the man lead on that too.

[AriaIncognito]

Oops, now i see that Maria was just a common friend, not a lover. I was confused :-) Nevermind that last question. :-) All the rest still applies, though. :-)

[Pedigree]

She also reveals to me that she canceled her wedding on her wedding day when she found out her hubby-to-be was in a relationship with one of the bridesmaids(who was a friend of his). She said she turned to Christianity after this.

 

1.I have been on 5 dates with this woman and I haven't kissed her yet. This is a first for me and I am not sure how or if to proceed.

We always kiss on the cheek at the end of dates, but surely she should have acquiesced to a full kiss on the lips by now?

 

5 dates, no kisses, and she talked about how her marriage ended before it even began.

 

Better do something quick, Balt, if this goes on it's the friendzone for you.

[the_blur]

I would have ditched her as soon as I found out she was Christian Taliban to be honest. If you are not Christian Taliban yourself, nothing good will come of it no matter how attractive she may seem man, save yourself the (potentially serious) heartache. Unless you are a fundie yourself, don't date fundies, their divorce rates really suck (34% for some branches, so that's what you're buying into).

[Balthazar]

Dreamer:

She and her ex fiance broke up on the day of her wedding in 2004.

Afterwards, she was in a relationship for about 2 years but broke up last summer.

Got back together with the guy last October, broke up again last March.

 

 

Aria:

Maria is a common friend who first introduced Joanne to me(we were colleagues at work).

Maria and Joanne are friends and go to the same church.

 

Pedigree:

Not really Pedigree. There can be no Friend-zoning here unless I desire it. Romantic interest was clearly established at the start. It's an all or nothing situation.

 

The Blur:

Hmm...you might be right on the money Blur!

[Balthazar]

UPDATE

 

Joanne calls me yesterday afternoon(Monday) and asks if we could go out for a drink at around 8:30pm.

I answer that we could go later but she says she wants to get back home to work and that I could make plans for later if I wished to.

 

I pick her up and we go to a small seaside cafe. As we are walking to the cafe, I intertwine my fingers with hers; she follows my lead but then disengages.

 

We sit and talk about this and that. At some point, she says the reason she wanted to see me was to explain how she feels about our relationship.

 

She understands that things are going very slowly and that this is unfair to me, so she feels she needs to step back.

Her life is very confusing at this time and she has quite a lot of work(translations,seminars etc.)

I look at her calmly and tell her to proceed.

She continues, stating that she isn't ready to be in any kind of relationship.

She ,supposedly, realized this when I asked her to go on a 2 day trip last weekend.

She didn't come yet felt as if she was holding me back and feels bad about this.

So, in a nutshell, she wants to be fair to me and believes we should break off or that I should agree to proceed veeeeeeeery slowly with her.

 

I look at her calmly, and respond that she has mistaken me for one of her students. She looks at me and I tell me that I am not 17 , or 27 even. I am 37 and have been around the block enough times to know what she REALLY means.

I add that it is OK, and that if she is not into me or our relationship, that cool. Let's just drop it.

 

This is where things become funny.

She doesn't seems satisfied by me just letting her off the hook(which is what, to my mind, I did).

 

She wants to talk the matter(and me) to death.

She says that I don't understand her and how she feels.

I respond that I don't understand her because she is not making much sense. I stress that, IMO, things are clear. You either want to be with someone, or you don't. SIMPLE AS THAT.

Furthermore, I tell her that I deserve to be with someone who is 100% into me. With this in mind, it's better that she broke it off after 5-6 dates rather than in a month or two.

 

She replies that she IS interested in me, but the timing in her life is not right. If she wasn't interested , she wouldn't have gone out on 5 dates. I respond by saying that I think she just wants some justification for going out on 5 dates, when she shouldn't have gone out with me more than once or twice. Moreover, I could tell she was not into the relationship; I'm not a fool.

 

The interesting thing is that she is still talking to me as if I DON"T understand the situation.

I repeat that I do; she is just not into me.

She says it's not that;

it's that she never even gave our relationship a chance because she is just not OK in her life(she says she is over her ex, but referred to some "situation" in her life;honestly, I didn't really give a damn at this point).

 

After her words I just go silent as I don't know what to say. It seems as if she just feels guilty(I showed her a good time for 5 dates) and wants some sort of absolution.

 

We had arrived back at her home, so I tell her to forget it. My words:

"Joanne, I like you, but a few drinks tonight and a date tomorrow and I'll be fine.

I hope you get out of your "phase" and find happiness with somebody. Have a nice summer."

 

She asks why I am acting this way, it's not like we are not going to see each other again.

"Good night Joanne.''

I just chuckle and let her out.

 

Next post has my thoughts on this matter folks.

[the_blur]

Good for you brother. There's plenty of other fish in the sea. Try to find the non-crazy fish. Atheists have the lowest divorce rates (and crime rates) btw. Just sayin. Religious girls in general are a pain, you made the right decision imo because she will always love her imaginary friend (god) more than you and you deserve better than that.

 

Cheers.

[imbewildered]

5 dates, no kisses, and she talked about how her marriage ended before it even began.

 

Better do something quick, Balt, if this goes on it's the friendzone for you.

 

Frankly Balt, you are acting like a girl. What are you waiting for ? Grab her and plant one right on her. TAKE HER ! Remember the 12 second rule ? If a chick maintains lip contact for 12 seconds or longer she is putty under your spatula.

You da man- this is not 1890, dude- the only thing missing from your post is a mention of a chaperon. Sheesh..

JUst go for it otherwise you will be posting here about shaking tamborines, and going door to door with those little booklets.

 

Good hunting, my man.

[Lovelybird]

you may misunderstood her. If she is a born again Christian, then she maybe wants to wait sex until marriage, and she hopes you don't progress the sex apartment and put no pressure on her, and so she doesn't have to hurt your feelings by rejecting sex.

 

She maybe into you, but difficult to tell you about the sex wait thing because sex before marriage is the expectation of this society.

 

If wait isn't what you want, then it is good that stop the relationship

[Balthazar]

you may misunderstood her. If she is a born again Christian, then she maybe wants to wait sex until marriage, and she hopes you don't progress the sex apartment and put no pressure on her, and so she doesn't have to hurt your feelings by rejecting sex.

 

She maybe into you, but difficult to tell you about the sex wait thing because sex before marriage is the expectation of this society.

 

If wait isn't what you want, then it is good that stop the relationship

 

I don't think so Lovelybird. I never pressed her for sex. I did go for a kiss once, and there was some stroking, but nothing too serious.

 

If she has such ideas about sex, she never shared them with me.

 

Even if she did, she would have explained that she likes me, wants to see me, but that I have to go slow.

 

Joanne did nothing of the sort.

She said the situation is unfair for me and that she isn't in the right frame of mind for a relationship.

Doesn't seem to have much to do with her religious beliefs, does it?

[dreamergrl]

Screw her, well not literally. If she's not ready, or she's not into you, at least you found out now instead of later. I almost wonder if she's thinking of getting back with the last one, since she has a history of doing just that.

[Balthazar]

Screw her, well not literally. If she's not ready, or she's not into you, at least you found out now instead of later. I almost wonder if she's thinking of getting back with the last one, since she has a history of doing just that.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing Dreamer.

And yes, it is better to find out after 5 dates than 2 months.

 

Thanks,

[Balthazar]

Excerpt from an email Joanne sent me today

 

Even if you are right when focusing on the final outcome, which remains the same in this case, I would again insist on changing the phrase "failed personal relationship" into "it was rather me failing to give a chance at this time".

 

MY THOUGHTS

 

This lady is pretty full of herself, don't you think?

I think I may have avoided a lot of trouble.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

She certainly is annoying.