Contact or no contact??? .

[mistresswchildren]

I have a different response. Everyone else seems to focus on this friend of yours, but I don't think that you should be worried about him at all. You say that you want your H (soon to be exH) to move on with someone else, and find someone that will make him happy. Why can't you want that for yourself? Your friend is a friend, and it got carried to far. You had an EA, and that happens, but don't continue it. If you want to find love, if you want love in your life, open yourself up to it. Clinging to a hope that your friend will eventually leave his wife will just close your mind to all other options. There could be someone out there for you that you might miss because you are pining away for this man. I realize he is a friend, and that he declined your advances, but he knows you want something more. Although he may never take you up on an offer of a physical affair, it is easy for him to continue to speak with you because it strokes his ego (don't get me wrong, I may be jaded, but that is how I feel). It is nice for him to feel loved and needed. So, all in all, end the marriage, end the EA, and focus on you for a while. The rest should fall into place when you least expect it.

[nadiaj2727]

I have a different response. Everyone else seems to focus on this friend of yours, but I don't think that you should be worried about him at all. You say that you want your H (soon to be exH) to move on with someone else, and find someone that will make him happy. Why can't you want that for yourself? Your friend is a friend, and it got carried to far. You had an EA, and that happens, but don't continue it. If you want to find love, if you want love in your life, open yourself up to it. Clinging to a hope that your friend will eventually leave his wife will just close your mind to all other options. There could be someone out there for you that you might miss because you are pining away for this man. I realize he is a friend, and that he declined your advances, but he knows you want something more. Although he may never take you up on an offer of a physical affair, it is easy for him to continue to speak with you because it strokes his ego (don't get me wrong, I may be jaded, but that is how I feel). It is nice for him to feel loved and needed. So, all in all, end the marriage, end the EA, and focus on you for a while. The rest should fall into place when you least expect it.

 

Good advice mistress, nice to see you around! Hope things are still going well for you with your new degree.

 

chuckgirl I'm not sure why you begged this man to have an affair with you, perhaps if you start with figuring that out you may have more insight into yourself and your situation. In the meantime being friends with him will only complicate things. I know you feel you JUST want to be friends with him but in my opinion it's impossible to go back to being friends with someone after you've crossed the line into emotional feelings. It's not like a light switch you can turn on and off... so being friends with them is kind of a way to keep your foot in the door and hold on to emotions for something more to happen eventually. I think you should put that in your past, figure out what led you up to this point and move on, improving yourself all the way. Maybe you needed this infatuation to show you how to get out of this marraige you've been stuck in. But it's best if you figure out these big life decisions on your own instead of relying on a man/ new love interest. Best wishes.

[Owl]

Here's my take.

 

Either fix, or end, your marriage FIRST AND FOREMOST.

 

I hear that you're in an emotionally abusive marriage with an alchoholic who has resumed drinking.

 

Draw a boundary there now, and STICK TO IT.

 

If you can't handle it, then end it. If he won't stop drinking, and continues to be abusive to you...get out.

 

Do so BEFORE you pursue a relationship with anyone else. Do this out of respect for yourself. Out of respect for what your marriage WAS, if not what it is now. Do it because its the right thing to do. I could go on and on...

 

If you want to give the marriage one more chance, that's up to you...but do so ONLY with the right counseling and therapy in place for BOTH of you...if that's what you decide.

 

From my perspective, you can't do ANYTHING with OM until you've resolved the EXISTING relationship one way or another.

 

Fix one problem at a time...start with your marriage...consider any OTHER relationships later when the time is RIGHT.

[chuckgirl]

Ok. Really great posts since I last read.

Thanks, Owl, Mistresswithchildren, and Nadia, Leia.

 

I am separating. That is happening. He just needs to get a place to stay, at max. it will be at the end of this month. Already have told children. Oldest is fine, youngest didn't get upset. She maybe too young to quite understand. We went through finances today and have come up something that we are both satisfied with.

 

I don't plan to date for a while. I agree, I need some time for my self. And unless I have a committed relationship with someone, I will always be looking, yeah, for myself. However, this will be my 2nd failed marriage. So, I will not be quick into marrying again.

 

We have been to counseling for over a year. But no matter how much counseling we have, will not make me love my H, like a wife should. Which makes him more depressed, which makes him drink more.

 

And I definitely was not wanting to contact my friend for a commitment. He is still married, but I miss his friendship, I would rather have him as a friend only than nothing. But I do understand that may not be possible anymore. He may not be able to handle it, and I agree, we went past where it should have gone and may not be able to go back. And it could affect my looking elsewhere, like someone said.

 

Well, I have a few months to really think all of this out, and maybe I will come to my senses by then. I will keep reading this thread, because there have been a lot of good posts here and a lot of good advice. And some very good valid reasons why or why not to contact.

 

Thanks everyone who has taken the time to read and post. All but one, who thought I sugar coating things, have been really great, whether pro or con. Best advice to live by: Take care of myself.

 

[nadiaj2727]

Ok. Really great posts since I last read.

Thanks, Owl, Mistresswithchildren, and Nadia, Leia.

 

I am separating. That is happening. He just needs to get a place to stay, at max. it will be at the end of this month. Already have told children. Oldest is fine, youngest didn't get upset. She maybe too young to quite understand. We went through finances today and have come up something that we are both satisfied with.

 

I don't plan to date for a while. I agree, I need some time for my self. And unless I have a committed relationship with someone, I will always be looking, yeah, for myself. However, this will be my 2nd failed marriage. So, I will not be quick into marrying again.

 

We have been to counseling for over a year. But no matter how much counseling we have, will not make me love my H, like a wife should. Which makes him more depressed, which makes him drink more.

 

And I definitely was not wanting to contact my friend for a commitment. He is still married, but I miss his friendship, I would rather have him as a friend only than nothing. But I do understand that may not be possible anymore. He may not be able to handle it, and I agree, we went past where it should have gone and may not be able to go back. And it could affect my looking elsewhere, like someone said.

 

Well, I have a few months to really think all of this out, and maybe I will come to my senses by then. I will keep reading this thread, because there have been a lot of good posts here and a lot of good advice. And some very good valid reasons why or why not to contact.

 

Thanks everyone who has taken the time to read and post. All but one, who thought I sugar coating things, have been really great, whether pro or con. Best advice to live by: Take care of myself.

 

 

I'm glad you've figured some things out chuckgirl and that you're doing well.

[chuckgirl]

I'm glad you've figured some things out chuckgirl and that you're doing well.

 

Thanks.

[CHD]

Thanks.

 

I am chuckgirl's husband. She contacted her MM 10 times via email within 72 hours of our separation. She was obviously desperately in love with him and hoped he would leave his wife for her. She put no effort into our MC, choosing to spend her spare time on forums such as this seeking approval of strangers to leave me.

 

Now we are finished. I am not the man she says I am. That is what she wants to believe to justify her "the grass is greener", midlife crisis syndrome.

 

Most of you are simply enablers. How can you offer advice to one on such important matters with so little knowledge of the facts? NMost of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Mino]

I am chuckgirl's husband. She contacted her MM 10 times via email within 72 hours of our separation. She was obviously desperately in love with him and hoped he would leave his wife for her. She put no effort into our MC, choosing to spend her spare time on forums such as this seeking approval of strangers to leave me.

 

Now we are finished. I am not the man she says I am. That is what she wants to believe to justify her "the grass is greener", midlife crisis syndrome.

 

Most of you are simply enablers. How can you offer advice to one on such important matters with so little knowledge of the facts? NMost of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

CHD, I dont know why anyone should be ashamed, everyone on the board gave chuckgirl good advice... Why should she put in another 17 years if she is miserable? It takes two.... obvously mc did not work. There comes a time where you just have to face the fact that the marriage is done. I know this is difficult for you. I wish you the best...

[Chrome Barracuda]

CHD, I dont know why anyone should be ashamed, everyone on the board gave chuckgirl good advice... Why should she put in another 17 years if she is miserable? It takes two.... obvously mc did not work. There comes a time where you just have to face the fact that the marriage is done. I know this is difficult for you. I wish you the best...

 

MINO CHD is right, some if not most posters on the OM/OW board condones the affair. None of you guys told her it was a bad idea. She said she was she was emotionally abused for 17 years? Hell no that's a lie. All waywards lie to justify the affair.

 

It takes two but one can ruin it. and she did, she wanted out, she would not give up her so called "friendship" for her husband and her family so now they both start over. She finds someone new, he finds someone new. the kids are shuttled back and forth between homes and they both got new stepparents and new siblings to deal with.

 

CHD take it from me, I've been on LS a long time and marriage is not forever with people here. It doesnt mean anything to them. they dont care who they ruin. or what lives they crush in the process for their happiness.

 

I know your probably pissed because marriage is forever!!! when you got married you did not say for 17 years so the wife can leave you for the OM sticking you with the bill.

 

The best thing is to not despair, from what I seen your better off with out your wife, she has alot of issues and baggage! and your gonna say to yourself what the F was I fighting for? Is this what I'm fighting for? This woman who cant even see past her own wants and needs, very selfish I might add.

 

The damage is done. Let her go. The wife you knew and loved is dead. Come over to the divorce/seperation section. You are welcome there. because trust me, these fogged out people aint gonna help you.

[White Flower]

MINO CHD is right, some if not most posters on the OM/OW board condones the affair. None of you guys told her it was a bad idea. She said she was she was emotionally abused for 17 years? Hell no that's a lie. All waywards lie to justify the affair.

 

It takes two but one can ruin it. and she did, she wanted out, she would not give up her so called "friendship" for her husband and her family so now they both start over. She finds someone new, he finds someone new. the kids are shuttled back and forth between homes and they both got new stepparents and new siblings to deal with.

 

CHD take it from me, I've been on LS a long time and marriage is not forever with people here. It doesnt mean anything to them. they dont care who they ruin. or what lives they crush in the process for their happiness.

 

I know your probably pissed because marriage is forever!!! when you got married you did not say for 17 years so the wife can leave you for the OM sticking you with the bill.

 

The best thing is to not despair, from what I seen your better off with out your wife, she has alot of issues and baggage! and your gonna say to yourself what the F was I fighting for? Is this what I'm fighting for? This woman who cant even see past her own wants and needs, very selfish I might add.

 

The damage is done. Let her go. The wife you knew and loved is dead. Come over to the divorce/seperation section. You are welcome there. because trust me, these fogged out people aint gonna help you.

How can you claim she is lying about her H's condition? You don't know them. The OP sees him as a certain character. If he is not that character, then he needs to make the changes that are neccessary for her to see him as he wants her to see him. Very simple.

 

Most of us OWs/former OWs have warned her to stay away from the MM. How can you claim that we have done otherwise?

[Chrome Barracuda]

How can you claim she is lying about her H's condition? You don't know them. The OP sees him as a certain character. If he is not that character, then he needs to make the changes that are neccessary for her to see him as he wants her to see him. Very simple.

 

It's too late now, he sounds just about done. lol. I know if I was in his place I'd be too. He can change all he wants bottom line is she's gonna do what she wants to do. She's leaving and she's gonna end up without the husband or the OM. While she's still proclaiming he's her true love. give me a break. Your right I dont know them, but their situation is one of many that is displayed on this board is it not?

 

 

Most of us OWs/former OWs have warned her to stay away from the MM. How can you claim that we have done otherwise?

 

Alot of times there are others who give great advice. Then you have others who condone the affair. It's simple as that. Maybe my statement was generalized for that I apologize but the fact remains there are more people letting the affair slide and not taking the OP to task, then to actually giving her examples of what can and will go wrong. Take for example PG' love's thread. She left her kids and husband for the OM, right and she comes here wanting help ton continue her affair and some people suggest filing a restraining order against her husband??? WTF? just so he wont come around. She wondered why her family took her husbands side? WTF? Come on. people come on here and play right into you guys hands and you believe every word they say. I was abused for years? C'mon.

 

it's called re-writing marital history...

[Lookingforward]

How can you claim she is lying about her H's condition? You don't know them. The OP sees him as a certain character. If he is not that character, then he needs to make the changes that are neccessary for her to see him as he wants her to see him. Very simple.

 

It's too late now, he sounds just about done. lol. I know if I was in his place I'd be too. He can change all he wants bottom line is she's gonna do what she wants to do. She's leaving and she's gonna end up without the husband or the OM. While she's still proclaiming he's her true love. give me a break. Your right I dont know them, but their situation is one of many that is displayed on this board is it not?

 

 

Most of us OWs/former OWs have warned her to stay away from the MM. How can you claim that we have done otherwise?

 

Alot of times there are others who give great advice. Then you have others who condone the affair. It's simple as that. Maybe my statement was generalized for that I apologize but the fact remains there are more people letting the affair slide and not taking the OP to task, then to actually giving her examples of what can and will go wrong. Take for example PG' love's thread. She left her kids and husband for the OM, right and she comes here wanting help ton continue her affair and some people suggest filing a restraining order against her husband??? WTF? just so he wont come around. She wondered why her family took her husbands side? WTF? Come on. people come on here and play right into you guys hands and you believe every word they say. I was abused for years? C'mon.

 

it's called re-writing marital history...

 

In PG's case I believe they are legally separated and a divorce has been filed so yes, she does have the right to expect her stbx H to respect those boundaries. No-one has the right to hound and harass someone who is no longer living with them.

[Lookingforward]

I am chuckgirl's husband. She contacted her MM 10 times via email within 72 hours of our separation. She was obviously desperately in love with him and hoped he would leave his wife for her. She put no effort into our MC, choosing to spend her spare time on forums such as this seeking approval of strangers to leave me.

 

Now we are finished. I am not the man she says I am. That is what she wants to believe to justify her "the grass is greener", midlife crisis syndrome.

 

Most of you are simply enablers. How can you offer advice to one on such important matters with so little knowledge of the facts? NMost of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

then if you had read through these posts you would see that most if not all posters advised her to not contact him and it seems she had a different agenda which wasn't clear at the time of her last posts.

 

I don't think you can call that enabling by those who offered that advice, based on the situation as she had posted it.

[OWoman]

I am chuckgirl's husband. She contacted her MM 10 times via email within 72 hours of our separation. She was obviously desperately in love with him and hoped he would leave his wife for her. She put no effort into our MC, choosing to spend her spare time on forums such as this seeking approval of strangers to leave me.

 

Clearly, if she ignored the majority of the advice she was given and contacted him regardless. I hope she finds her happiness, with or without him.

 

And, CHD, I hope you do too, once you're able to move on from your anger.

[OWoman]

In PG's case I believe they are legally separated and a divorce has been filed so yes, she does have the right to expect her stbx H to respect those boundaries. No-one has the right to hound and harass someone who is no longer living with them.

 

LF it seems some (some, note, not all) of them male posters here have a hard time accepting that women have any right to leave a M without their H's permission. They reckon that if the W checks out but the H is not done yet, it's the W's obligation to remain bound to her H until such time as he's ready to let her go - if ever. When some people talk about "owning" a spouse, they really do mean it

[LakesideDream]

Owoman, this is the 21st Century. Wives have the absolute "right" to walk away from their marriages as do men. Many more of both sex's are doing it every day.

 

The problem isn't "rights". Realationship carnage is spreading through the culture quicker than the latest flu. Even the married men, and married women are cheating on their affair partners.

 

The freedom to hurt other people with abandon may be creating a society of throw away families. That's the biggest problem IMO.

[carhill]

LsD, it's like a "peer pressure" of a completely different sort. I saw a lot of the same thing a generation ago in business, where, in the truest pragmatic sense, the ends justified the means. That philosophy still permeates our society, and it is truly difficult to "go it alone" in a maelstrom of competing messages and self-involved behaviors. I've done it for many years. Even my wife pressures me to do things contrary to my more "traditional" moral code, simply because "everyone else is". It's very frustrating.

 

I hope my advice in this thread was gender-neutral, as I truly meant it to be that. I have always seen men and women as equals in relationships and marriages; another contravention of societal norms, I suppose

[OWoman]

Owoman, this is the 21st Century. Wives have the absolute "right" to walk away from their marriages as do men. Many more of both sex's are doing it every day.

 

The problem isn't "rights". Realationship carnage is spreading through the culture quicker than the latest flu. Even the married men, and married women are cheating on their affair partners.

 

The freedom to hurt other people with abandon may be creating a society of throw away families. That's the biggest problem IMO.

 

LsD I think you're reading my post a little wrong. I was responding to an earlier post which slammed another poster (PGL) for wanting to prevent her stbxH from continuing to harass her after the separation. The assumption of the poster in question was, well, he's her H, he has every right to continue harassing her and she has absolutely no right unilaterallly to declare the M over by separating and leaving. The poster in question seemed to feel that until the H decided the M was over - irrespective of the fact that they were separated - the H still had every right to harass his stbxW because "he was just trying to keep his family together". That, to my mind, seemed a very short step away from seeing the W as a possession of the H.

[White Flower]

LF it seems some (some, note, not all) of them male posters here have a hard time accepting that women have any right to leave a M without their H's permission. They reckon that if the W checks out but the H is not done yet, it's the W's obligation to remain bound to her H until such time as he's ready to let her go - if ever. When some people talk about "owning" a spouse, they really do mean it

This is so true a lot of the time. Women can't own a man (and wouldn't want to) but men certainly are entitled by nature, society, or instinct to own women.

[White Flower]

Owoman, this is the 21st Century. Wives have the absolute "right" to walk away from their marriages as do men. Many more of both sex's are doing it every day.

 

The problem isn't "rights". Realationship carnage is spreading through the culture quicker than the latest flu. Even the married men, and married women are cheating on their affair partners.

 

The freedom to hurt other people with abandon may be creating a society of throw away families. That's the biggest problem IMO.

Women certainly have the right to walk away by law, but OWoman is commenting on how some men seem entiltled to decide if and when the M ends. You, LsD, were not one of those controlling types.

 

The bolded part is also true. Some seem to turn to another out of love and finding their true soul-mate while others are just players. Screw the players. Big time.

[sfsassy]

I would hasten to add, we don't know whose story is true. (or if there is truth to both of the stories). My ex boyfriend had a ex wife, who was verbally abusive to him, and me. (and she was his his ex at the time we dated, so not a betrayal thing) I thought she was a witch. (or a word that rhymes with it! And I don't use that lightly at all!) Anyway, I would talk to my then boyfriend about it, and he would always say "There is her truth, my truth and the actual truth". I later found out that there wre extenuating circmstances he hadn't shared with me, though nothing that warranted her tirades, lol!

[2sunny]

Ok. I have been really thinking about it and listening to everyone's advice. And I think this is exactly what I am going to do. I was thinking that I will send a bd card (a few months away) and that is it. He knows my situation and what my plans were going to be. He can then feel no pressure, no worries, and certainly I won't be putting him in a situation that he does not want to be in. And other than saying thanks to me, if he asks no questions, I will know to never bother him again.

 

And for you cynical people out there, I am only asking for his friendship. I do not want him to leave his wife for me. I begged for an affair, which he declined. I respect him for it. I am not saying I am innocent, but I would never ask him again, esp. since I will be single and he will be married. Weird, I know, don't know if I can explain that one!

 

i can relate to this because i was in an emotionally abusive marriage much like you describe for almost 20 years. i finally put my foot down when i found out he cheated again and took my self respect to another level and ended the marriage.

 

i also have had a very dear male friend for many many years. on many levels he and his wife are not compatible. but that is not for me to say to him. he has had many times where he has wanted to leave her and has asked me if i would marry him if he were to divorce. i have always said no. i really need him as a friend more than anything... why mess up a good thing? if he really wanted to leave her - he would leave because HE wants to - not because he has someone waiting there for him.

 

i encourage him to stay married (he -almost 35 years) as his wife is a lovely gal and they have several kids. i have contact with him every few weeks - although we do exchange e-mails (humor) almost daily. like i said - i enjoy him as a friend and would never put his marriage in jeopardy. yes, his wife and adult kids know we have been friends for years.

 

bottom line for you = stay out of it... he will do what is best for himself and you need to move on and do what's best for you. if you do stay friends for years to come then that is awesome. whether or not he divorces is beside the point of friendship... that is his decision to make - not based on what you are doing or not doing.

 

to me, his actions (staying in the marriage) is a big sign that he doesn't intend to change his current lifestyle.

 

he may intend to ask you to be his side dish in the future and you need to be prepared with a response as to what your goal is from him: lover or friend...

 

keep in mind the lover part may come with a lot of resentments of what he gave up to have you...

 

the friendship part is something that can't be replaced easily and is way more beneficial in the long run.

 

good luck.

[Lookingforward]

Are you DIM? I stated that the ex and I are talking about reconciling. It is MY decision if we do. I have no problem with my ex's past affairs, as that was before me (well, excluding the one where I turned her out). I learned a ton about the behaviorial patterns of married middle-aged women from her and the reasons for what they do. I have never been married, but I have thrilled a great number of married women, and their reasons (excuses) for the affairs are eerily similar, and point to one thing: personal satisfaction at the expense of their own dignity and with total disregard for the feelings of others. If they say admit to having one affair, bet your a55 it's two. I do know what I am talking about here, but I digress...

 

I think that I can do a better job without y'all's advice IF I decide to reconcile with the ex...

 

There is a ton of anger on this site, and it is not coming from me...

 

 

Ah so you're a serial cheater enabler, I see, can't get a SG interested is that it ?

 

btw that's not waves of anger headed for you, I believe it's disgust

 

good luck with your reconciliation.........

[me003]

the counselor looked at us both, noticing we both looked defeated and asked did we still want to work on our marriage. I then said no.

 

But I know I will never love my H the way I should as his wife. I have been hurt too much over the years. We really aren't good for each other, we don't make each other happy. We've grown apart. I feel bad, because it is me. He loves me and wants us to work. We (via MC and the counselor himself) didn't ever know if it could ever work, because of how I've been treated. Didn't ever know if the wall would ever come down. The minute it comes down, he does something to bring it back up and it gets stronger and stronger each time.

 

And I agree, that I can't work on myself with the MM in my life.

 

We have separated several times before and gotten back together. But the problems that were suppose to go away, really only faded until we were back together and they came back.

 

And if we didn't have some of the issues we have or had, I think it could have worked. He was very good at showing my husband how his thinking was not correct. And yes, sometimes mine was wrong. But my husband never would realize that the way he thought about things was not good for a good marriage.

 

What chuckgirl wrote was her truth, H has his truth. Regardless of who was trully telling the truth has nothing to do with the fact that she had cheated and that she wanted out of the marriage. Maybe the A was the stepping stone she needed maybe not. As a person in a comitted or loving relationship, how can anyone be in a marriage where the other person is just there passing time?

They say that once couples got to MC it is because it is too late. they have realized that something is broken and that it needs fixing. I tried MC and it was too late. Maybe it works for some.

[OWoman]

Are you DIM? I stated that the ex and I are talking about reconciling. It is MY decision if we do. I have no problem with my ex's past affairs, as that was before me (well, excluding the one where I turned her out). I learned a ton about the behaviorial patterns of married middle-aged women from her and the reasons for what they do.

 

That sounds very scientific. You reckon I can learn "a ton" about the behavioural patterns of German people from Adolf Hitler then, or "a ton" about the behavioural patterns of American people from Ted Bundy?

 

I have never been married, but I have thrilled a great number of married women, and their reasons (excuses) for the affairs are eerily similar, and point to one thing: personal satisfaction at the expense of their own dignity and with total disregard for the feelings of others. If they say admit to having one affair, bet your a55 it's two. I do know what I am talking about here, but I digress...

 

Thrilled them, huh? That what they told you? :lmao: Gosh your need for approval from Momma must have been really obvious if all of these "middle aged married women" felt they had to tell you you'd "thrilled" them. You're right about the part of it being at the expense of their own dignity though - from what you describe, they really were "mating down" when you were "thrilling them", but perhaps they wanted a walk on the seedy side of life?

 

Still, if we all had to extrapolate to everyone else on the basis of our own partial experience, with such absolute certainty and assurance, there'd be no need for schools or universities since everyone else would also know it all... so those of us who teach in them could retire happily.

 

Keep it up, Dangling, I'm sure there are lots more MAMW out there dying for your thrilling...