Update on Tongue-Tied!

[spookie]

I was wrong about Lauren. She's not catty and she wasn't trying to steal him.

 

Last night the four of us went out to a bar with some more of our friends. As usual, I was on the lookout for signs that he liked me, which came soon enough: as soon as he was a little buzzed, he invited me outside to the patio to play bags. Since the bar was really busy, all the bag spots were taken, but we stood outside for a long time laughing, talking, and hand-grazing. He told me he was a virgin. (I don't get how, he's not THAT awkward and he's really cute, really smart, and in a frat.)

 

Back at the hotel, as soon as we got to our floor, Laura and his roommate ran to the boys' room and locked us out. So, Tongue-Tied and I made our way to my room and lay down on Laura's bed to read my new David Sedaris book. Somehow, the conversation turned to how intimidating I am to him and how he's afraid to say anything because he thinks I'll judge him. I assured him I didn't, and eventually we were flirting, and then the distance between us diminished until our arms were touching.

 

The AC was on full-blast and it got cold. He pulled the blanket around us, but it wasn't enough, and I moved to my bed. After a while, when he didn't follow, I asked if he'd like to sleep in mine too, and he moved over. Even though we were under the covers together now, we weren't touching. I started cracking up and in one motion, he rolled toward me and hugged me with both arms. We lay like that for a couple of minutes, just savoring each other's touch, and then our hands began to move, up and down each other's backs, over hair and face, and eventually we started kissing.

 

It was very PG, which I liked. It was sweet and I felt like we were being intimate instead of just horny.

 

The best part was this morning, when he woke up and hugged me close, weaving his fingers through mine. :love:

 

However, it was slightly awkward for most of the rest of the day. We were always with Lauren and Brad and both just pretended everything was the same, even though obviously they were the ones who set it up.

 

Tonight Lauren's out of town and Brad and Tongue-Tied and I are going to some actuarial party. I hope we can sleep in the same bed again after.

[melodymatters]

I'm finding this story damn cute ! Enjoy the sweetness after all the wild crap you've been through !

[Nemo]

I'm with Melody. Soooo cute. I really, really hope it works out, because otherwise he'll be hung-up on you for 99 years. (First loves, and all that.)

[shadowplay]

I was wrong about Lauren. She's not catty and she wasn't trying to steal him.

 

Last night the four of us went out to a bar with some more of our friends. As usual, I was on the lookout for signs that he liked me, which came soon enough: as soon as he was a little buzzed, he invited me outside to the patio to play bags. Since the bar was really busy, all the bag spots were taken, but we stood outside for a long time laughing, talking, and hand-grazing. He told me he was a virgin. (I don't get how, he's not THAT awkward and he's really cute, really smart, and in a frat.)

 

Back at the hotel, as soon as we got to our floor, Laura and his roommate ran to the boys' room and locked us out. So, Tongue-Tied and I made our way to my room and lay down on Laura's bed to read my new David Sedaris book. Somehow, the conversation turned to how intimidating I am to him and how he's afraid to say anything because he thinks I'll judge him. I assured him I didn't, and eventually we were flirting, and then the distance between us diminished until our arms were touching.

 

The AC was on full-blast and it got cold. He pulled the blanket around us, but it wasn't enough, and I moved to my bed. After a while, when he didn't follow, I asked if he'd like to sleep in mine too, and he moved over. Even though we were under the covers together now, we weren't touching. I started cracking up and in one motion, he rolled toward me and hugged me with both arms. We lay like that for a couple of minutes, just savoring each other's touch, and then our hands began to move, up and down each other's backs, over hair and face, and eventually we started kissing.

 

It was very PG, which I liked. It was sweet and I felt like we were being intimate instead of just horny.

 

The best part was this morning, when he woke up and hugged me close, weaving his fingers through mine. :love:

 

However, it was slightly awkward for most of the rest of the day. We were always with Lauren and Brad and both just pretended everything was the same, even though obviously they were the ones who set it up.

 

Tonight Lauren's out of town and Brad and Tongue-Tied and I are going to some actuarial party. I hope we can sleep in the same bed again after.

 

I TOLD YOU he liked you and was just intimidated. I knew it.

[jerbear]

So cute...

 

Like I said

 

Spookie and Tongue-tied matched June 2008

Spookie and Tongue-tied married June 2009 (yes 1 month earlier)

Tongkie (little boy) and Spoogue (little girl) both born March 2010.

[Nemo]

I TOLD YOU he liked you and was just intimidated. I knew it.

Yes, LoveShack ought to put a little star next to your name from now on. But if your intuition fades, then expect that star to be ripped away from you just as suddenly as it was awarded.

[Leia]

So cute...

 

Like I said

 

Spookie and Tongue-tied matched June 2008

Spookie and Tongue-tied married June 2009 (yes 1 month earlier)

Tongkie (little boy) and Spoogue (little girl) both born March 2010.

 

Are you having problems with math?

[Leia]

I wish Americans would stop ruining the English Language. It is Maths or Mathematics.

 

I'm not American.

[Leia]

Whatever you are use the actual language that the greatest nation taught your ancestors or use a different language. Math WTF!

 

I use whatever I want. You can see many other mistakes on this forum. Go correct every one of it.

[jerbear]

Are you having problems with math?

 

Ugh no. I'm trying to use the new math they are teaching in grade school. So I guess it means 1 month.

 

Based on another thread and "old" math, the 1 month refers to them getting married 13 months after they were matched. I just moved it up to 12 months.

 

I also increased their "litter" from mini Spook Tied to twins, Tongkie and Spoogue.

[Storyrider]

This is so romantic. You guys should take it slow. I really like how

this is developing.

 

And even though he isn't your first love, although you might be his at some level, I hope you won't be too quick to compare him with your ex, as he seems to be quite lovable in his own right.

[Leia]

Ugh no. I'm trying to use the new math they are teaching in grade school. So I guess it means 1 month.

 

Based on another thread and "old" math, the 1 month refers to them getting married 13 months after they were matched. I just moved it up to 12 months.

 

I also increased their "litter" from mini Spook Tied to twins, Tongkie and Spoogue.

 

So if we had kids, their names would be Jerle or Leiabear?

 

I'm so bad at this.

 

Oh and what do you know, you used 'Math'? jerbear... you're American! It should be Maths or Mathematics!

[spookie]

Well, it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back for me. As always.

 

We messed around again Friday night even though it was kind of awkward during the day, with both of us acting like everything was normal despite the matching hickeys on our necks. Let's just say, I've never been titty-****ed so ferociously. For someone with no naked expereince whatsoever, I am impressed by Tongue-Tied's imagination.

 

On Saturday a big group of us went downtown (which was amazing). We went to the aquarium and checked out Navy Pier, but by 4 PM, had settled comfortably at a bar, where we stayed till 2 in the morning. I was the only girl in the group of 17, squished between two bothers from Ireland and across the table from Tongue-Tied, so aside from some eye contact and a couple of comments back and forth through the course of the evening, we didn't get to talk much. We ended up in sleeping in someone's spare bedroom, however, where he told me I had made him jealous talking to the other guys, and that he thinks I am unpredictable, and sexy.

 

At the time I was drunk, so I didn't think much of it, but the next day, I was bothered by the fact that he had mentioned I had a really strong personality, which scared him; and that he wanted me to take the lead with where this was going because he had no idea what he was doing and didn't know how to read signals from women. I'm not even sure why: by itself that really doesn't sound so bad, but it was sort of awkward with both of us sober, and I remembered how throughout the day before, though he was always by my side, he was entirely unaffectionate; and how he wanted to have sex with me and kept saying that he was an idiot for not bringing a condom (as well as mentioning, in all seriousness, that the worst that could happen if we did it was that we'd have a kid in 9 months, and would I like to?); and it made me feel used. Somehow or other, I've managed to deflower 3 guys this year alone, and the prospect of taking another person's v-card just made me feel like a volunteer vagina.

 

He wanted to sleep when we got home. I asked him if he'd like to nap with me, in my room, but he refused.

 

That's when, feeling rejected, in typical psycho-spookie fashion, I decided to cut him off. (I must have abandonment issues, or something). I called my friend and we talked about how I thought he was such a pussy, and I told him I missed Wes, and I was getting ready to get completely wasted, when TT did something that surprised me. He showed up at my door. I've been making all the moves in this R, so I was shocked to find him standing there, completely unsolicited.

 

He pinned me to the bed. We started kissing. I was turned on, but blank again, like always. Disconnected. In my mind wanting to know what he was thinking, and what was going on, and if I was being used. But too afraid to ask.

 

But instead of going with the flow, like I would normally, just to resent him later, I took the plunge. I told him we were going too fast (he immediately jumped off me and apologized) and that I needed to know how he felt, and what he wanted, and for him to understand that I want a meaningful, loving relationship. With or without him.

 

And he held me, as I got all this out; and told me it scares him how he doens't know what to expect, and that he has trouble opening up, and trusting, and no experience whatsoever with women. He said it was hard for him to say anything meaningful to anyone he cared about, because it made him uncomfortable (how well I know how that feels). And hearing all this, I felt so much better. For the first time all weekend, I felt close to him, and hopeful once again that something good could happen. For the rest of the day, we cuddled as close as possible while we watched DVD's, and laughed, and went to dinner. Sober and alone. Connecting.

 

So I don't know what we are (and I apologize for the length of this post). But I'm proud of myself for - finally - giving someone a chance to give me what I want, instead of writing him off immediately for not being someone who doesn't even exist outside my memory anymore, the minute he did something wrong.

[johan]

I think he should be respectful of your boundaries, maybe testing them at the same time. But I think you're going to find taking the lead and making the moves to get tiring. You'll want a guy who knows what he wants, and happens to want the same things you want. And who can also stand up to you and isn't intimidated by you.

[shadowplay]

Spook, don't take it the wrong way, but what is it with you and these passive man-children?! This guy sounds eerily similar to Mr. Aspie in terms of his wimpiness, inexperience and lack of assertiveness. I get the feeling you're initially drawn to guys like this, but later recoil once you get a taste of their not-so-sweet forbidden fruit.

 

Perhaps you feel less intimidated by such guys, mistaking their weak personalities for sweetness, but you don't realize that some of the biggest a-holes are inexperienced, passive men.

 

This guy is emotionally unavailable and immature. He has explicitly told you as much. Do you want a boyfriend or a project?

 

I think you need a strong, confident (yet kind and considerate) guy to match your personality.

 

Please stop chasing the lame-os.

[Storyrider]

You'll want a guy who knows what he wants, and happens to want the same things you want. And who can also stand up to you and isn't intimidated by you.

 

Isn't that the b*tch of the matter, though. We want the guy in the driver's seat, but to drive in exactly the direction we are secretly hoping for.

 

 

Spook, don't take it the wrong way, but what is it with you and these passive man-children?! This guy sounds eerily similar to Mr. Aspie in terms of his wimpiness, inexperience and lack of assertiveness. I get the feeling you're initially drawn to guys like this, but later recoil once you get a taste of their not-so-sweet forbidden fruit.

 

Perhaps you feel less intimidated by such guys, but you should realize that some of the biggest a-holes are inexperienced, passive men.

 

I think you need a strong, confident (yet kind and considerate) guy to match your personality.

 

Please stop chasing the lame-os.

 

But this guy took the door off the hinges, was wickedly funny, etc. I don't think he seemed lame on the exterior.

[shadowplay]

 

 

 

But this guy took the door off the hinges, was wickedly funny, etc. I don't think he seemed lame on the exterior.

 

He didn't at first, but her latest post paints a diff picture.

[Storyrider]

He didn't at first, but her latest post paints a diff picture.

I agree. I'm just pointing out I don't think she was initially attracted to him because he seemed virginal, etc. That was a surprise, I'm pretty sure. Maybe it is more the reverse, that virginal guys are attracted to Spookie.

[shadowplay]

OK, maybe I was too harsh in my initial post. I hope things work out for her with this guy. I just worry that Spookie seeks out guys who can't give her what she needs.

[spookie]

Spook, don't take it the wrong way, but what is it with you and these passive man-children?! This guy sounds eerily similar to Mr. Aspie in terms of his wimpiness, inexperience and lack of assertiveness. I get the feeling you're initially drawn to guys like this, but later recoil once you get a taste of their not-so-sweet forbidden fruit.

 

Perhaps you feel less intimidated by such guys, mistaking their weak personalities for sweetness, but you don't realize that some of the biggest a-holes are inexperienced, passive men.

 

This guy is emotionally unavailable and immature. He has explicitly told you as much. Do you want a boyfriend or a project?

 

I think you need a strong, confident (yet kind and considerate) guy to match your personality.

 

Please stop chasing the lame-os.

 

Haha. I am wondering wtf is up with me also.

 

I didn't realize Tongue-Tied was completely inexperienced and shy, because he is really hot (tall, muscular, pretty), likes sports, is in a fat and is a social person who obviously understands social cues since he is popular, well-liked, and fits into that WASPY upper middle class. It was only as I got to know him better that I realized many of his "interests" and "opinions" SO he could fit in, and that his excessive drinking (which is ridiculous btw) was because it must be hard for him to be sober. I don't get what his deal is with women, and despite all his questionable external qualities and well-masked insecurities, I have a feeling he's a really good, genuine person.

 

I also think Storyrider is right that I wasn't attracted to him for his virgin-ness, like I was with AS. If anything, the opposite is true - I was initially intriqued by how I was able to connect to someone who seemed so different from me (very social, etc.) and it was shock to find out, for example, that he was a virgin. I also think she might be right that virginal guys are attracted to ME, which doesn't make me feel that great, actually. I don't tend to view myself as a leader or a teacher, but apparently I'm not bad at either, like I thought all my life.

 

Mr. AS seemed dead on the inside - I can't really explain why- and I am actually convinced, in hindsight that given the right (easy) opportunities he'd have turned out to be an unbelievable ashsole. TT reminds me of myself a little bit, just more of a conformist than I could ever be.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm bad at explaining, but they're really different and I don't think they're motivated by the same positives. The negatives, maybe - fear, insecurity - but their nearly opposites with all their other traits. (Oh, and did I mention TT is HOT and we have amazing chemistry?)

 

TT also makes me laugh, and while with Mr. AS I always felt like I was completely replacebale with any other girl who'd pay him attention, with him I'm actually convinced (after today) that he likes ME.

 

He's got flaws, you're definitely right that he's immature, and that I know I still haven't seen his center, but my gut is telling me for some reason that he's someone I need to (and can) get to know the inside of, that he's worth the effort and is someone I can connect with and maybe be happy with. Re: the emotional unavailability, I'm not so sure you're right. He's an amazing cuddler, and when I watch his face I can tell he's easily moved, just maybe not the best at verbalizing that.

 

I think I'll just back off to give him some opportunity to man up and grow some balls.

[shadowplay]

OK, well then your instinct is probably right. If you sense he's a good person he probably is. Just be careful.

[shadowplay]

 

Mr. AS seemed dead on the inside - I can't really explain why- and I am actually convinced, in hindsight that given the right (easy) opportunities he'd have turned out to be an unbelievable ashsole. TT reminds me of myself a little bit, just more of a conformist than I could ever be.

 

TT also makes me laugh, and while with Mr. AS I always felt like I was completely replacebale with any other girl who'd pay him attention, with him I'm actually convinced (after today) that he likes ME.

 

Wow, I can really relate to this part. I dated two guys like this.

[spookie]

I don't know if this is relevant, but I also wanted to add:

 

I liked Mr. AS (and every other guy I've dated since splitting from my ex) for his laundry list of compatible-seeming characteristics (smart, nerdy, hard-working, willing to please, liberal, strongly non-religious.)

 

With TT none of that matters. In fact, he doens't even have many of the characteristics I expected to find in someone "compatible" and that I exclusively dated others for.

 

I like him for the way he looks at me when I am telling stories or jokes or saying something out-there philosophical or angry (really anytime I'm being "genuine" rather than acting the way I've learned to act to make people feel comfortable). I like him for the way his face lights up when he smiles (I know that's cheesy, but it's true), cause he's naturally boyish and athletic, and cause he's hot.

 

Having dated a ton of guys who could have been right but just weren't (no butterflies), I know those are all really good reasons (they're stupid enough). I think that's important.

[shadowplay]

I envy that you've found a guy you have such chemistry with. It's not easy to find.

[Stockalone]

...where he told me I had made him jealous talking to the other guys, and that he thinks I am unpredictable, and sexy.

 

At the time I was drunk, so I didn't think much of it, but the next day, I was bothered by the fact that he had mentioned I had a really strong personality, which scared him; and that he wanted me to take the lead with where this was going because he had no idea what he was doing and didn't know how to read signals from women.

 

I would say that feeling jealous is a normal reaction at this stage. If he is a virgin, inexperienced in and also bad at reading signals from women, he can't tell the difference between you being flirty with other men and normal behaviour that doesn't call for jealousy on his part.

 

About you leading. Maybe that is just me, but I was like him with the woman I lost my virginity to. I had no idea what was expected from me and I trusted her to make the right decisions.

 

 

I'm not even sure why: by itself that really doesn't sound so bad, but it was sort of awkward with both of us sober, and I remembered how throughout the day before, though he was always by my side, he was entirely unaffectionate; and how he wanted to have sex with me and kept saying that he was an idiot for not bringing a condom (as well as mentioning, in all seriousness, that the worst that could happen if we did it was that we'd have a kid in 9 months, and would I like to?); and it made me feel used.

 

Was he sober or drunk when he said that? It just seems very odd, no, not even odd, it's just wrong.

 

Who says something like that? What also bugs me is how he wants you to take the lead and then mentions that he wants to have sex, even unprotected sex if you are up for it.

 

 

It was only as I got to know him better that I realized many of his "interests" and "opinions" SO he could fit in, and that his excessive drinking (which is ridiculous btw) was because it must be hard for him to be sober.

 

Does that mean that he is just trying to fit in and drinks because in reality he feels miserable about what he is doing? If that is the case, that would worry me.

 

 

I don't get what his deal is with women, and despite all his questionable external qualities and well-masked insecurities, I have a feeling he's a really good, genuine person.

 

...

 

He's got flaws, you're definitely right that he's immature, and that I know I still haven't seen his center, but my gut is telling me for some reason that he's someone I need to (and can) get to know the inside of, that he's worth the effort and is someone I can connect with and maybe be happy with.

 

You better try to find out. If a guy is a virgin in his 20ies, there is a reason for it. How old is TT?

 

It doesn't have to be something bad, but I think it is important for you to know what it is. If he, too, wants a meaningful relationship, he will have to open up. He has to let you see what is inside of him.

 

I don't know if TT is like me, but I needed a lot of hand holding and sometimes even needed to be spoonfed during the initial stages of my first relationship. I was immature and had no clue what I was supposed to do or what was appropriate for me to do. That certainly can't have been easy for my gf.

 

Maybe all he needs is a bit of encouragement and to be pushed in the right direction from time to time. Whether or not that is enough to overcome his insecurities and immaturity remains to be see. But who knows, he might be a quick study.

 

Not every shy guy turns out to be a keeper once you get him out of his shell, but if your gut tells you that he is worth a try, I say go for it. Keep cautiously optimistic and see where your gut feeling leads you. You certainly deserve a lucky break.