Kamille Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Ooh ouch that's a bad down SSG. ((sunshinegirl)) Soon there will be another up. And then, granted, another down. Followed by another up. And little by little the ups will overtake the downs.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 16, 2008 Author Posted June 16, 2008 Thanks Kamille. Crappy downs. I hate them. I want someone to tell me that no, he's a messed up individual. Odds are extremely slim that he's going to find his happiness with this one. I am trying to take the long view, that maybe he'll even have a second divorce in his future, especially if he rushes things with the stupid hooch. But me? I'm going to do my work and NOT INFLICT MY PAIN ON OTHERS, unlike stupid stupid him. I, unlike stupid stupid him, will never cheat on someone else. EVER. I will always be a stronger person than him in that respect. And once I've done my work, I will be open to greater happiness than I've known before, and I'll find it. All I wish is that he would one day offer me a heartfelt apology for having hurt me so badly.
Nevermind Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 He is one messed up individual. He will never find the happiness that you will have. Somewhere in his mind he knows he did wrong, and he knows that the "hooch" was not your high standards. He will always know that somehow something good vanished from his life. Will he try to convince himself that somehow it wasn't his fault? Sure. But that just means that he is not getting any lesson out of it. He will do it again. He will never be able to trust himself, nor any women. Love without trust? I can't see it. Will you got a heartfelt apology? I hope so. But I wouldn't count on it. In order to get on with his life he has to minimize his feelings of guilt. But, as I said, they will haunt him either way. ((hugs)) You are so right. You will be better and you will see greater happiness than he could ever imagine.
Issues & tissues Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 I am going to a wedding and a birthday party today. Now, if we were still together, he would be coming with me to both. And I have to remember that I would have been vaguely uncomfortable with him the whole time... worried about his interest/ability to socialize with my friends, feeling like I needed to 'tend' to him and make sure he was having a good time, worrying that he would say something offensive. I have to remember that he doesn't like people and generally people don't walk away from a conversation with him thinking "wow! what a cool guy I just talked to!" He can't hold up conversation and that was always, always a concern of mine. SO - this means that I get to attend these celebrations unencumbered by a bump-on-a-log boyfriend whose biggest asset was that he is good looking. Wow! You'd think we had been dating the same guy. My ex was a train crash when it came to socializing and everytime we were at someone's birthday party, housewarming or wedding, etc we'd have to leave early because he had "a headache" i.e. he would be in one of his moods and would be sitting to one side looking like he had been sucking on a lemon all evening. Of course, as soon as we'd get home his headache would magically disappear and he'd be up for a quick shag Like you, I would always have to check that he was OK and make sure he was having a good time as his ability to socialize with my friends was about as accomplished as that of a wombat!
Issues & tissues Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 ...and now for the 'down' moment. Brought to you by the letter D. I hate the thought that he's not thinking of me. That he created this rift, this unhealable rift, between us. I've convinced myself that he's found "the real thing" with the hooch and that he is going to get his happily ever after. I hate that I was so easily replaced. I hate that he could go from crying, bawling, telling me I know him better than anyone and I'm right about everything and he doesn't know himself, to sleeping with HER the next day...and apparently never looking back. I have had more than my fair share of these moments too. The only thing that keeps me sane is knowing that I am no longer responsible for his social inadequacies (please see comment above) and that someone else can now wipe up after him! Oh goodey! Looks like the "anger phase" has just kicked in again!
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 He is one messed up individual. He will never find the happiness that you will have. Somewhere in his mind he knows he did wrong, and he knows that the "hooch" was not your high standards. He will always know that somehow something good vanished from his life. Will he try to convince himself that somehow it wasn't his fault? Sure. But that just means that he is not getting any lesson out of it. He will do it again. He will never be able to trust himself, nor any women. Love without trust? I can't see it. Will you got a heartfelt apology? I hope so. But I wouldn't count on it. In order to get on with his life he has to minimize his feelings of guilt. But, as I said, they will haunt him either way. ((hugs)) You are so right. You will be better and you will see greater happiness than he could ever imagine. Awww, thanks NM. Now the question is: did you say all that because you knew that's exactly what I needed to hear? Or do you actually believe it, too, based on what you know of my situation? I won't hold my breath for a heartfelt apology, although I feel like that would be the one thing that could ultimately right or heal this terrible wrong that's happened to me. Just to have him acknowledge how awful he was to me, and that I did absolutely nothing to deserve it... those words would be a healing balm. I could ultimately forgive him if I heard something like that from his lips...someday. I hate that there is this jagged bloody rift between us now, that HE caused, by being so hurtful and selfish. I hate that I am spending time and energy hurting, being angry, hating him, wishing terrible things on him. I know this yucky anger phase is part of healing and hopefully I won't be here forever, but it is (a) exhausting and (b) depressing to have to deal with such an awful, hurtful ending. I have never been cheated on before, and have never had to heal from being betrayed like this before. It's a whole other layer of pain to sort through.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 I have had more than my fair share of these moments too. The only thing that keeps me sane is knowing that I am no longer responsible for his social inadequacies (please see comment above) and that someone else can now wipe up after him! Oh goodey! Looks like the "anger phase" has just kicked in again! I&T: How do you keep that bolded part above front and center in your mind? I mean, I have lists and lists and lists of ways that my ex was uncaring, unresponsive, anti-social, and generally not capable of having a mutually giving, respectful, kind, communicative relationship. Yet as soon as I think of him with the hooch, my mind flips into my worst case scenario: that he is somehow caring, responsive, social, and capable of being in a mutually giving, respectful, kind, communicative relationship. In short, that he is totally different with her and gives her everything I wanted and needed from him.
Kamille Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Yet as soon as I think of him with the hooch, my mind flips into my worst case scenario: that he is somehow caring, responsive, social, and capable of being in a mutually giving, respectful, kind, communicative relationship. In short, that he is totally different with her and gives her everything I wanted and needed from him. How? How would that be possible? How could someone change so much in, well, one day? This sounds like a subconscious fear : basically, you're afraid that the problem was you, that he is capable of love, just not with you. It's not so much about him as it is about feeling lovable. Perhaps he is playing into a fear that you are unlovable. (And I think I can hear your rational mind objecting: but I am lovable. And your rational is absolutely right). In my opinion that's not how it works. People don't change for their partners. People are good and bad matches and maybe you and your ex were just not such a great match. He clearly wasn't giving you everything you needed. Maybe he is better matched with the hooch, but then that would be because she doesn't need the same things you do. What was that? Ah yeah, the universe saved you from him. It doesn't matter what kind of match he and the hooch are (likely not the kind of couple you would want to be a part of anyways). The universe did this for reasons all of its own, and one day it will all make sense.
Issues & tissues Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 I&T: How do you keep that bolded part above front and center in your mind? I mean, I have lists and lists and lists of ways that my ex was uncaring, unresponsive, anti-social, and generally not capable of having a mutually giving, respectful, kind, communicative relationship. Yet as soon as I think of him with the hooch, my mind flips into my worst case scenario: that he is somehow caring, responsive, social, and capable of being in a mutually giving, respectful, kind, communicative relationship. In short, that he is totally different with her and gives her everything I wanted and needed from him. Oh don't get me wrong, I have more than my fair share of doubts about myself and also about him. Funnily enough, my ex would also be completely different around his family, his friends and his colleagues. He would be just as you described: communicative, responsive, sociable, giving, caring, funny, even fluffy. But when with me or with those close to me such as family and friends, he would be the exact opposite: uncaring, unresponsive, bored, anti-social, and generally not capable of having a mutually giving, respectful, kind, communicative relationship, as you so aptly put it. It used to drive me insane! I remember on one occasion fairly early on in our relationship we were at a birthday party and after some time a good male friend of mine took me to one side and said "With all due respect, I think you had better take your man home. He's making everyone feel really uncomfortable! We feel we have done something to upset him!" At the time, I was deeply hurt by this and only much later did I begin to realize exactly how they must have felt. Eventually, I stopped attending social events and celebreations altogether and having friends over dinner became a thing of the past. It was so much easier finding excuses not to attend than it was actually going to these get-togethers with my very "awkward" boyfriend in tow. In summation, I think my ex was very immature and selfish, needing my undivided attention at all times and wanting me all to himself. This was probably a symptom of his low self-esteem and a reflection of his lack of self-confidence and insecurities. He was also very jealous. He would get jealous of just about anything: for example when I'd be on the phone to mum, or when I'd be reading a book or watching television on my own or doing anything which did not involve him. He was very controlling, pointing to his watch and pacing up and down the room if I was on the phone for more than ten minutes or denying me access to the TV or computer as "punishment" for spending too much time with one or the other or giving me the "silence treatment" for wasting money on tampons (I know I shudder even thinking about that now). Family and friends even went as far as describing him as "abusive". I tend to agree with them now. But at the time I just couldn't see it. Probably because he wasn't always like that (or at least it seemed to me) and he was, ironically, rather "communicative", "responsive", "sociable", "giving", "caring", etc. So to answer your question about my previous comment...The only thing that keeps me sane is knowing that I am no longer responsible for his social inadequacies and that someone else can now wipe up after him!...I truly believe that he was and is a fake. That he is somehow caring, responsive, social, and capable of being in a mutually giving, respectful, kind, communicative relationship is simply a lie. Yes, he may be all of those things at the beginning of a new relationship (as he was with me) but in time his true self will manifest itself.
Issues & tissues Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 How? How would that be possible? How could someone change so much in, well, one day? This sounds like a subconscious fear : basically, you're afraid that the problem was you, that he is capable of love, just not with you. It's not so much about him as it is about feeling lovable. Perhaps he is playing into a fear that you are unlovable. (And I think I can hear your rational mind objecting: but I am lovable. And your rational is absolutely right). In my opinion that's not how it works. People don't change for their partners. People are good and bad matches and maybe you and your ex were just not such a great match. He clearly wasn't giving you everything you needed. Maybe he is better matched with the hooch, but then that would be because she doesn't need the same things you do. What was that? Ah yeah, the universe saved you from him. It doesn't matter what kind of match he and the hooch are (likely not the kind of couple you would want to be a part of anyways). The universe did this for reasons all of its own, and one day it will all make sense. Your post is spot on especially that first paragraph! I went through the same mind set (and still occasionally do) feeling totally unloved and rejected by him cheating on me and breaking up with me. And I agree with you that this is very much the result of the subconscious fear of being no longer "lovable".
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 Oh don't get me wrong, I have more than my fair share of doubts about myself and also about him. Funnily enough, my ex would also be completely different around his family, his friends and his colleagues. He would be just as you described: communicative, responsive, sociable, giving, caring, funny, even fluffy. But when with me or with those close to me such as family and friends, he would be the exact opposite: uncaring, unresponsive, bored, anti-social, and generally not capable of having a mutually giving, respectful, kind, communicative relationship, as you so aptly put it. It used to drive me insane! I remember on one occasion fairly early on in our relationship we were at a birthday party and after some time a good male friend of mine took me to one side and said "With all due respect, I think you had better take your man home. He's making everyone feel really uncomfortable! We feel we have done something to upset him!" At the time, I was deeply hurt by this and only much later did I begin to realize exactly how they must have felt. Eventually, I stopped attending social events and celebreations altogether and having friends over dinner became a thing of the past. It was so much easier finding excuses not to attend than it was actually going to these get-togethers with my very "awkward" boyfriend in tow. In summation, I think my ex was very immature and selfish, needing my undivided attention at all times and wanting me all to himself. This was probably a symptom of his low self-esteem and a reflection of his lack of self-confidence and insecurities. He was also very jealous. He would get jealous of just about anything: for example when I'd be on the phone to mum, or when I'd be reading a book or watching television on my own or doing anything which did not involve him. He was very controlling, pointing to his watch and pacing up and down the room if I was on the phone for more than ten minutes or denying me access to the TV or computer as "punishment" for spending too much time with one or the other or giving me the "silence treatment" for wasting money on tampons (I know I shudder even thinking about that now). Family and friends even went as far as describing him as "abusive". I tend to agree with them now. But at the time I just couldn't see it. Probably because he wasn't always like that (or at least it seemed to me) and he was, ironically, rather "communicative", "responsive", "sociable", "giving", "caring", etc. That he is somehow caring, responsive, social, and capable of being in a mutually giving, respectful, kind, communicative relationship is simply a lie. Yes, he may be all of those things at the beginning of a new relationship (as he was with me) but in time his true self will manifest itself. Your ex sounds very immature. Ick. Mine wasn't much different with anyone in his life - the exception being his daughter. I think I fell in love with how open, nurturing, loving he is/was with her. I think I assumed he was capable of being that way with me, but now I see he wasn't, really. And he isn't like that with anyone else - he is extremely buttoned up, hard to read, hard to get to know. He seems to have very high walls and nobody, not even me who he once said knows him better than anyone and got him to talk more than anyone, really got to know him. (Yet for some reason I am still paranoid that the hooch will unlock something in him - as Kamille pointed out this is my fear talking, probably not related to the reality that he is going to be just as buttoned up with the hooch.) In your case it must have been very disconcerting to see your ex be great with other people, but completely NOT great with you and your peeps. * * * I'm rambling now. I woke up this morning thinking of how he is with his daughter, and I actually started feeling better about things. He is good at playing with his daughter and telling her he loves her, but he has ****ty instincts as a father. In particular, he had no sense that he should protect his daughter from seeing a parade of girlfriends through her life. He thought it was perfectly fine for me to sleep over from the earliest days of our relationship. *I* put it off for six months because *I* was concerned about the impact on her; I knew I was his first girlfriend post-divorce and I didn't want to be the first of many women in the kid's life. He used to say his daughter was handling the divorce "like a trooper" and seemed to think she was "very mature" and "understood more than you would think"...that she would be totally fine with us sleeping together because, after all, her mother is sleeping with the boyfriend. I remember being skeptical of that at the time because, for pete's sake, she was 5 years old! No 5 year old has the maturity to really understand something as painful as a divorce. My ex seemed to have no connection or understanding to her inevitably fragile emotional state. Why was *I* protecting that child more than he was? So I just thought he made some very bad decisions in that realm and was really careless when it came to her emotional wellbeing.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 How? How would that be possible? How could someone change so much in, well, one day? This sounds like a subconscious fear : basically, you're afraid that the problem was you, that he is capable of love, just not with you. It's not so much about him as it is about feeling lovable. Perhaps he is playing into a fear that you are unlovable. (And I think I can hear your rational mind objecting: but I am lovable. And your rational is absolutely right). In my opinion that's not how it works. People don't change for their partners. People are good and bad matches and maybe you and your ex were just not such a great match. He clearly wasn't giving you everything you needed. Maybe he is better matched with the hooch, but then that would be because she doesn't need the same things you do. What was that? Ah yeah, the universe saved you from him. It doesn't matter what kind of match he and the hooch are (likely not the kind of couple you would want to be a part of anyways). The universe did this for reasons all of its own, and one day it will all make sense. Thank you for this. So who would be a good match for someone who is cut off from his own feelings, doesn't communicate (a chronic problem, both in his marriage and with me), doesn't genuinely like people, and doesn't appear to care about anything deeper than surface issues? Is it possible for some mythical person out there to happily couple up with a man like him for a lifetime? I really don't think I'm exaggerating here, either. I spent over a year with him and it is now in retrospect that I am seeing how little he regarded me and others. My gut was firing off warning signals throughout the whole relationship...I was just ignoring them. I guess I am stuck thinking - well if I can't be happy with him, I don't want anyone else to be happy with him either.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 While I'm at it, here is my sad/depressing thought for the day: it hurts to think that with every day that passes we are becoming more and more strangers to each other. I used to know him better than anyone, we talked every day. That process of becoming strangers is so painful. My memories are just a little bit less vivid now; it almost feels like a dream, the year+ we were together. I suppose that's good for healing, but it's bad for realizing I no longer know what's going on in his life, or he mine. I may never see his daughter again. If/when we run into each other, it will be awkward and awful and sad because we probably won't have anything to say to each other. (Unless of course he finally came forward with a GIANT mea culpa.)
Kamille Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 So who would be a good match for someone who is cut off from his own feelings, doesn't communicate (a chronic problem, both in his marriage and with me), doesn't genuinely like people, and doesn't appear to care about anything deeper than surface issues? Is it possible for some mythical person out there to happily couple up with a man like him for a lifetime? Two kinds: the kind who needs a project, or the kind who is exactly the same.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 Two kinds: the kind who needs a project, or the kind who is exactly the same. Ugh. Two plastic Ken & Barbie people together. Who would be pretty to look at but who would lack substance...what an icky, boring life. To be honest I have always questioned whether such people experience true, deep happiness in life. I suppose that's pretty judgmental but I just can't see it. It's the whole "the unexamined life is not worth living" thing, I guess. I'm all for hedonistic pleasure, sure, but I honestly do not believe that's all life is. The pursuit of pleasure inevitably wears thin. In my opinion. So you would think that I could have developed this kind of objectivity about Eric way back when, when he was clearly demonstrating to me his lack of interest in anything meaningful. Grrr. Someone needing a project, I suspect, would ultimately get sick of dealing with him. I think I have subconscious urges for 'projects' and I was starting to see a bunch of (unfixable) cracks in the relationship. I am 99.9% sure I would have been miserable over the course of a lifetime with him. That doesn't stop me from missing him, though. Dammit.
Nevermind Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Now the question is: did you say all that because you knew that's exactly what I needed to hear? Or do you actually believe it, too, based on what you know of my situation? I believe it. He has been cheated on and now he is a cheater. This kind of trauma will never really leave him. He is his own worst nightmare. And since he knows how little words mean, he will never be able to fully trust another person. He couldn't be trusted, why should he trust someone else? I don't see happiness coming his way. Not if he doesn't work on his problems. And he doesn't seem to be the guy to do that.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 18, 2008 Author Posted June 18, 2008 Today I feel kind of numb and kind of sad. Sad: I hate that my memories are becoming just a little bit less sharp and clear. I hate that we are strangers to each other. I hate that he's going to Croatia next week, had invited me to go, and now very well may be taking the hooch. Numb: I'm not crying. I'm not panicked. But I feel flat, kind of empty.
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