backsliding big time

[sunshinegirl]

Even after all the work I've done to understand that my ex isn't what I needed, couldn't give what I wanted, and showed me his (weak) character early, I am missing him big time today. I am out of town for work, there aren't even great or big reasons for being so triggered. Maybe the only thing is that last night I found notes I'd written right after our breakup, where he said some things that gave me hope we'd work out.

 

But I just miss him, miss our daily check-in phone calls which, even though they were just reporting on our days, were a comfort. I miss his body. I wish he were calling me from Yosemite. I am focusing on the good things we had and it's making me incredibly, incredibly sad and anxious about my future. I can't picture the next better wonderful man that I'll be crazy about and who won't disappoint me. I am stuck still wanting THIS man, despite everything.

 

I am teaching a class today for a client and am noticing that every woman in this room is married. I am consumed with jealousy - are they all happily married? Why could they find a husband and I still can't?

 

Crap. Please help me find my center.

[kizik]

I can guarantee you they're not all happily married. It's funny, I've found myself actually starting to PITY people in relationships instead of feeling jealous, because they have compromised themselves in SOME way, as I did.

 

I miss my girl too. But you know what? She's probably happy. So now I have to do everything I can do to be happy, too. I refuse to be the hung-up loser.

 

You and I REALLY need to learn the joys of being single. Having alone time. Thoughts. Doing whatever we choose. I know it sounds trite, but we no longer are responsible for that person's emotions! We don't have to fight! It's very liberating.

 

This is what I tell myself...

 

For me, "looking around" actually lowers my self-esteem. My self-esteem is raised when I don't assess a "prospect" in every woman I see or meet. My advice is, stop looking.

[sunshinegirl]

I've spent most of my adult life as a single person, kizik. I don't have trouble being by myself, but I AM sick to death of loving men who wind up leaving me, so I have to start the whole damn process over again and mourn someone who isn't thinking of me, doesn't care about me, and is escaping unscathed into some stupid happy life while I lick my wounds. Again.

 

Right now I just want him back. I miss the good parts of what we had. I'm in the city where his ex-wife lives. Believe me it has actually occurred to me, again, to contact her to get some kind of additional closure from her - to hear, first hand, how hard it was to be married to him and why she left and how happy she is now with her new husband.

[carrotgirl]

I'm in the city where his ex-wife lives. Believe me it has actually occurred to me, again, to contact her to get some kind of additional closure from her - to hear, first hand, how hard it was to be married to him and why she left and how happy she is now with her new husband.

That's not a bad idea. You were lucky. You got rid of one of the I could have been stuck for good ones. Maybe you need a reminder.

 

Carrot

[sunshinegirl]

I did not wind up contacting the ex-wife. Among other reasons, she just got remarried Saturday and is either honeymooning this week or else probably would not be very inclined to sit around and talk about her ex-husband.

 

I am back in my home city now and I have had a number of ups and downs since I posted this thread - par for the course, I suppose.

 

I am reading Eat Pray Love and am in the India part of the book. I've strangely found it more inspiring than I expected, and last night I had this sudden thought of "the universe saved me from him". That I might not have been strong enough to walk away even if/when things got really bad/unhappy between us, so the universe had to conspire to rip him out of my life.

 

Then, this morning I started thinking about the fact that I was NOT on a path with him toward becoming the person I want to be. If anything, I was regressing, away from compassion and care for other people, and into an insular small world.

 

I remember telling my ex one time that I was interested in becoming a 'divorce coach' in the collaborative divorce process - I'm a trained mediator and my career is in conflict management. The idea of being able to help others through a very dark and difficult time in their lives really appealed to me, and I had started doing research on what it would take to start doing it part-time. I told my ex about it, thinking that he might find it interesting, and I remember him saying, incredulously, "why would you want to get involved in other people's problems?"

 

Why that didn't scream out to me that he is a small man with a small heart and small mind, I don't know. Why I didn't see that he would be a man completely uninterested in supporting me and my goals and dreams in life, I don't know. Why it didn't shock me that that was his view even though he himself was going through the trauma of divorce, I don't know.

 

Why I love(d) him, I still don't know.

 

But right now I am trying to cling to "the universe saved me from him" idea. Otherwise I am afraid I will keep sinking into the "I miss him" and "what does hooch have that I don't?" obsessive thoughts.

[Kamille]

Hi Sunshine

 

Right now I am starting to feel the effects of the great void. Yes, I am also wondering why it is that most of my friends are coupled off by now and I am still single.

 

I guess it's not for me to figure out and I am happy anyways. In fact, I feel more balanced then I have in a long time, although I can't blame my ex for that. My well-being is my responsibility right?

 

 

In the case of your ex, yes it does sound like the universe conspired to save you from him. You sound like someone who is really good at making relationships work, even with the wrong partner. Are you perhaps someone who has a history of falling in love easily? Or does it take awhile for someone to win your heart?

[sunshinegirl]

In the case of your ex, yes it does sound like the universe conspired to save you from him. You sound like someone who is really good at making relationships work, even with the wrong partner. Are you perhaps someone who has a history of falling in love easily? Or does it take awhile for someone to win your heart?

 

I'm not sure how to answer that. I am 34 and have had (only) 4 relationships in my life. Generally speaking my bar is very very high, such that I am not attracted to the vast swath of men out there. Once I meet someone who "wows" me in some way, and they seem to meet my needs/criteria, then yes, I do tend to let my guard down easily and fall in love.

 

What's weird about this ex is that 9 months into our relationship I still wasn't sure I loved him. I went back and forth, a lot, actually. We had a great time together, and I loved that, but as friends have pointed out, I was always concerned about his lack of communication and wondered even back then whether I would eventually get bored.

 

Somewhere around Thanksgiving, I made a conscious choice/decision that I loved him despite everything. And once I made that decision, there was no going back - I guess I'm a very loyal person and if I believe in someone and love them, I am all in. I will try to make it work even if at great cost to myself and my happiness. And perhaps that's why I think that the universe intervened.

[Kamille]

I'm very much like you: men I can fall for are few and far between, but when I do I seem to let my gard down rapidly. I made the all-in decision in February, the one where I went: yes, I love him and I want to make this work.

 

And now I'm glad he actually saw through the dynamic of our relationships and was able to call it off, no matter what a harsh slap in the face it was back then.

[sunshinegirl]

And now I'm glad he actually saw through the dynamic of our relationships and was able to call it off, no matter what a harsh slap in the face it was back then.

 

What did he see that you didn't?

 

You're saying you're glad now that you broke up?

[Kamille]

What did he see that you didn't?

 

You're saying you're glad now that you broke up?

 

Yes in a way, I am glad we broke up. I loved him, still love him, still wish him well. What he saw that I didn't was that the dynamics of our relationship weren't working for us, and hadn't from the get-go.

 

We never seemed to be able to strike the right balance. Either he was into it more then I was, or I was into it more then him. A great many things were compromises, from how often and when we have sex to how we talk about work.

 

As I try to answer this I realize one thing: I was exhausted throughout our relationship. I had a professional burn out last June, and am only starting to truly be out of it now. In many ways, he helped me with work-related anxieties, but the crisis exploded between us when things calmed down at work and I tried, in good ways and bad ways, to regain my own balance. Basically, in Feb I suddenly felt like I needed to have more control over my life and, since he had been such a part of my balance from Oct-Jan, I acted in many co-dependant ways. He questioned not only the harmful ways I tried to regain balance (by, for instance, questioning him on his habits), but also my beliefs about what could make me feel better (eating lighter meals, making myself a home somewhere, exercising/yoga, my relationship to my body).

 

And, also, he loves extremes and I love balance.

 

I still wonder, had I been in a better place when we met (ie, not having a burn out) if 1) things would have worked out between us; or 2) if he needed me to be fragile, needed to be "the strong one", in order for the relationship to work.

[sunshinegirl]

So what was the attraction? What did you love about him?

 

My counselor asked repeatedly last week: what did you love about E.?

 

And I struggled to answer. I loved that he loves his daughter. I loved that he knows how to do a lot of things I'm less good at - I could admire and learn from him (cooking, rock climbing especially). The sex was great; then again, he was my first so what do I know? Maybe sex can be way better.

 

But character qualities? I don't know how I was so blind. He doesn't value communication. He doesn't value people. He doesn't value finding deeper/higher meaning in life. He isn't compassionate, kind, thoughtful, or caring toward anyone outside his tight circle. He can't empathize with others. He is cut off from his feelings. Everyone but me saw this.

[Kamille]

So what was the attraction? What did you love about him?

 

 

I have been wondering the same thing.

 

I have two answers and they are radically opposed.

 

Answer 1: I loved him

 

Answer 2: I loved the way he loved me.

 

I loved him. I loved his strenght loooooved his strenght. He was strong physically and intellectually. It makes sense that I was drawn to that since I was feeling perticularly weak. We were both teaching at the time and he was going it so effortlessly, meanwhile I struggled with every decision, questioned myself at every step. He taught me that at one point, you just have to believe in yourself and follow your own course of actions.

 

I loved his energy: like I said, he loves extremes, so if he was into something he was into it 100%, with almost childlike candor. I guess the correlate to that was that he could also be 100% jaded.

 

I also loved how generous he was, how giving and how open to others in all their complexities.

 

But I think the initial attraction was the way he loved me; although that was also what caused us the most problems. Within two dates, he had decided I was "the one", in typical extreme fashion. That he loved me faults and all, that he took me all in. It's part of the reason why I wonder: had I been in a better place, would it have worked out? Basically, because he was all in, I was really confused about how I felt, and, because he is really strong, I really struggled to assert my own boundaries.

 

mmer. I miss him. But I still wonder if the person I am currently is a match for him, or if he needed me to be fragile in order to be the person he wanted to be in the relationship.

[sunshinegirl]

mmer. I miss him. But I still wonder if the person I am currently is a match for him, or if he needed me to be fragile in order to be the person he wanted to be in the relationship.

 

I imagine there might be a clue to this in looking at his past relationships. What kind of women did he date before you?

 

---

 

God. I am having an awful morning. Anxious, depressed, missing him, angry that I can't seem to admit to myself the depths of my own doubts about him and our relationship. Worried that if I stop grieving what we had, no one will be thinking about it anymore...and that will mean what we had was nothing; it might as well not have even existed. That my love was nothing, meant nothing, and brought nothing good into the world or his life - especially since he trashed it so carelessly.

[Kamille]

God. I am having an awful morning. Anxious, depressed, missing him, angry that I can't seem to admit to myself the depths of my own doubts about him and our relationship. Worried that if I stop grieving what we had, no one will be thinking about it anymore...and that will mean what we had was nothing; it might as well not have even existed. That my love was nothing, meant nothing, and brought nothing good into the world or his life - especially since he trashed it so carelessly.

 

Ah Sunshine, take that step and stop grieving. You won't stop thinking about it, it will only slowly become a more positive souvenir. I know our situations differ to some extent, but once you let go and stop grieving, you will slowly be better placed to appreciate the role your ex played in your life (and YES it is a tricky road, full or relapses (fond memories hit harder then bitterness), but I am in a much better place now thanks to it).

 

 

 

 

I imagine there might be a clue to this in looking at his past relationships. What kind of women did he date before you?

 

All I know about his past relationships is what he would tell me about them, and well, he didn't tell me much about them. One clue though: when we met, like I said, I was under great stress at work, going through a lot of anxiety and had really let my appartment slide, couldn't find time to cook or shop, basically was a domestic disaster, which, when I am well, I am not. One day, early in the R, after I thanked him for cooking yet another meal and doing the dishes he said : "Don't worry, all my exes were domestic disasters. I don't mind taking care of you. I love you just the way you are." So all I know is that his exes were domestic disasters.

 

Let's just say he was amazed to find out I could cook the first time I did cook him a meal and when I started cleaning the appartment more.

 

I am reading Eat Pray Love too, am currently in Bali and read a passage that made me think of you, about falling in love with a man's potential. Anyways, when you get there (you will know which passage I mean), please let me know what you think of it.

[Nevermind]

God. I am having an awful morning. Anxious, depressed, missing him, angry that I can't seem to admit to myself the depths of my own doubts about him and our relationship. Worried that if I stop grieving what we had, no one will be thinking about it anymore...and that will mean what we had was nothing; it might as well not have even existed. That my love was nothing, meant nothing, and brought nothing good into the world or his life - especially since he trashed it so carelessly.

This is the final proof that reality is nothing and that the world is just an idea in my head. Because I must have written that since it is exactly how I feel.

 

He doesn't care. I think he did, but his feelings were so shallow that he could easily quit thinking about it. He is not a very great guy. He speaks bad about women in general, he doesn't respect them. One example of many: When we were still together he told me about an ex-girlfriend of his once. He had been her first boyfriend, they had had sex for the first time, it was big for her. Years later she is now with one of his friends. Which he finds weird, he feels bad for his friend because "it's like eating out of my trash can".

 

Yet, I really want him to still care. To not think about me like this. And he will, or he does. I want to be a memory to him, and I want him to think of me as a girl who treated him great, and who made him happy. Yet, he won't. It's upon me...as it was the entire time we were together.

 

Sunshinegirl, there is no way out of this feeling. Stick to no-contact and do what you're doing right now: be social, do things you like. This is a slow process. One day, you'll stumble upon a remainder of old times and you'll realize that you haven't thought about him for a long time. Then, you are healed.

 

(((hugs)))

[sunshinegirl]

I am reading Eat Pray Love too, am currently in Bali and read a passage that made me think of you, about falling in love with a man's potential. Anyways, when you get there (you will know which passage I mean), please let me know what you think of it.

 

I just read that passage last night!

 

What's crazy is that I didn't realize I was in love with E's potential. I had been in love with my first ex's potential, big time, and thought I had learned that lesson.

 

It's sweet that you thought of me when you read it.

 

The thing about the Bali part of the book, for me, is that I am getting depressed reading about her growing happiness - it's taken her a world of travel and months and months and months of work and I am just so. not. there. I could relate much better to her being in India and being so angry and frustrated and stuck in her past that she couldn't meditate.

 

I need to make E. smaller. And me bigger. The only ways I know how to do that right now are to criticize him and try to remember the moments where I looked at him and thought "Eh. He's just a guy, nothing that special. He doesn't inspire me. He doesn't make me think or want to be a better person. He doesn't even seem to see ME, and what kind of idiotic, blind, self-centered guy can't see what I have to offer?"

 

The universe saved me from him. The universe saved me from him. The universe saved me from him.

 

Ugh.

[sunshinegirl]

Ah Sunshine, take that step and stop grieving.

 

I'm not ready to. It's only been about 6 weeks, after over a year together.

[Kamille]

I'm not ready to. It's only been about 6 weeks, after over a year together.

 

But hey, at least you recognize it's the next step, which means it's starting to happen.

 

Nevermind and Sunshine, I wonder... I know in both your cases you've rationalized that your exes no longer think about you because they have moved on... But, do you think it diminishes what you meant to your exes? Do you think it diminishes what you shared, and the role you had in their lives? Is it at all possible that when they think of you (and let's face it, I'm sure they do), they think of you with guilt AND fondness?

[sunshinegirl]

But hey, at least you recognize it's the next step, which means it's starting to happen.

 

Nevermind and Sunshine, I wonder... I know in both your cases you've rationalized that your exes no longer think about you because they have moved on... But, do you think it diminishes what you meant to your exes? Do you think it diminishes what you shared, and the role you had in their lives? Is it at all possible that when they think of you (and let's face it, I'm sure they do), they think of you with guilt AND fondness?

 

I had to excuse myself to go to the bathroom when I read this, because it made me burst into tears for some reason.

 

To the degree Eric is capable of feeling guilt, I am sure he feels guilty. But he is extremely good at compartmentalizing, so he may very well be trying to stuff down any thoughts of me at all.

 

He is rock climbing with a mutual friend in Yosemite this week, a mutual friend whom he had told two months ago that I was "a keeper", and when he told the friend about our breakup, said that he should "punch him in the face, hard, twice" next time he saw him. So my guess is that he has not been totally able to escape thinking of me on this trip. The friend was completely shocked. What I wonder is how much Eric is going to tell him about his cheating and the hooch.

 

Part of what I can't fathom is that Eric had a complete meltdown the day we broke up - I've never seen so many tears or so much snot. He had to take his shirt off to use as a hankie. But then, less than 24 hours later, he boned the hooch. Doesn't that mean he didn't care anymore, went into shutdown mode, just decided he was moving on, stopped thinking of me? Is now in some happy la-la new relationship?

[Nevermind]

Guilt? No. He isn't capabale of feeling deeply about anything or anybody that lies in the past. He also isn't able to feel really bad about himself, except in one area: his university career. He has shown me plenty of times that he is able to completely uncare about a person, once he is done with them. One of his best friends called him "pathetic" once, and my ex completely shut out every friendly feeling for the guy. He also has no bad feelings - they are still in the same circle, he just doesn't care anymore. It took him about 2 days to do that.

 

Fondness: About himself, maybe. About me? I doubt it. He must have made himself see me in a really bad light to feel good about himself, so there is no basis for any fondness connected to me.

[sunshinegirl]

Guilt? No. He isn't capabale of feeling deeply about anything or anybody that lies in the past. He also isn't able to feel really bad about himself, except in one area: his university career. He has shown me plenty of times that he is able to completely uncare about a person, once he is done with them. One of his best friends called him "pathetic" once, and my ex completely shut out every friendly feeling for the guy. He also has no bad feelings - they are still in the same circle, he just doesn't care anymore. It took him about 2 days to do that.

 

Fondness: About himself, maybe. About me? I doubt it. He must have made himself see me in a really bad light to feel good about himself, so there is no basis for any fondness connected to me.

 

NM, it seems like the bolded parts above might be one of the keys to your healing. Can a person like this really be trusted? Someone who doesn't feel remorse when they do wrong... is that good long-term partner material? If he can just "shut off" feelings... to be honest that sounds like deep insecurity at work. Someone who can't handle anyone uttering a critical word about him is someone who is not going to function well in an intimate relationship. Because we all do uncaring, selfish things in relationships and you need to be able to talk about it, own your own stuff, apologize and make adjustments or amends as needed. Your ex sounds like he hates himself, to be honest, and creates a wall/shell to keep out anything that might threaten him.

[Nevermind]

He is very smug. Hating himself? I doubt it. I hope not. I wouldn't want him to feel bad. And I wouldn't want to cause him pain. I never did. I truly loved him. Therefore, I will always care about him a bit. He won't. This is sad, but not to be changed. My love might not have been worth much, but it was there nevertheless.

 

He could never accept guilt really. And it was always me who was wrong, even in those times when clearly he had behaved badly. So maybe he is in an inner conflict. He definiately has problems of losing control. He controls everything, always (which made his behaviour so much worse). I wouldn't want to be there when this vulcano erupts.

 

 

So...I do not wish to be in a relationship with him anymore. Not the way he is and was the last months. But he was my first love, we spend 2 years together. I would like to be able to stay in contact, maybe even be friends some day.

 

As far as healing goes...the heart ache is gone. I gave myself one month of feeling as bad about it as my heart wanted. I think so far...it's going pretty well. I still think about him, but not heartbrokenly. Just disappointed.

[Nevermind]

Now isn't this great? The heart-ache just came crawling back.

 

Two weeks without a pity-party and now I could just lay down and cry again.

 

Argh.

 

*sniff*

[sunshinegirl]

Healing's a bitch. Up and down, up and down.

 

I am going to a wedding and a birthday party today. Now, if we were still together, he would be coming with me to both. And I have to remember that I would have been vaguely uncomfortable with him the whole time... worried about his interest/ability to socialize with my friends, feeling like I needed to 'tend' to him and make sure he was having a good time, worrying that he would say something offensive. I have to remember that he doesn't like people and generally people don't walk away from a conversation with him thinking "wow! what a cool guy I just talked to!" He can't hold up conversation and that was always, always a concern of mine.

 

SO - this means that I get to attend these celebrations unencumbered by a bump-on-a-log boyfriend whose biggest asset was that he is good looking.

 

Clearly I'm in a better place emotionally right now than I was when I started this thread - see? Up, down. Up, down.

[sunshinegirl]

...and now for the 'down' moment. Brought to you by the letter D.

 

I hate the thought that he's not thinking of me. That he created this rift, this unhealable rift, between us.

 

I've convinced myself that he's found "the real thing" with the hooch and that he is going to get his happily ever after. I hate that I was so easily replaced. I hate that he could go from crying, bawling, telling me I know him better than anyone and I'm right about everything and he doesn't know himself, to sleeping with HER the next day...and apparently never looking back.