What it is that bugs you really?

[carrotgirl]

This post http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t154818/ was just the latest in a long line of posts I've read where a lot of things were written that perpetuate some mythic ideas about what relationships with pretty people are (and are not) all because of their looks.

 

How many people do you know who are responsible for the way they look? If you want to be bitter or angry at the people largely responsible, then start blaming everyone's parents! For the most part, I did not choose to look the way I do.

 

I think that what is happening throughout these threads is a lot of people are mixing up the concept of beauty with those of charm and confidence. While there is certainly evidence that people find certain looks attractive, there's also evidence that this requires social context.

 

For me, looking a certain way means almost every woman I meet decides she doesn't like me twenty paces in advance of our introduction. When entering a social gathering among women I don't know I'm often closed out on sight. All because of how I look.

 

It means when I go to the grocery store, the Home Depot, the airport, on a train, at a foot race, eating my lunch, just walking around town, men I do not know watch me, sometimes they follow me. It doesn't matter if I'm with someone either.

 

Often when I'm out with GD random passers by say things like "She's so beautiful. You're a lucky man to be with someone as hot as her." Do you think this a compliment or an insult? To which one of us? I know what I think. What do you think?

 

Have any of you ever been one of those people?

 

Have you avoided being near people who are attractive specifically because they are attractive? Have you been annoyed by the sight of an attractive person receiving attention? Do you think that only certain types of people deserve to find love together?

 

Do you recognize this as prejudice?

 

Carrot

[Nevermind]

I have had some pretty bad encounters with really good looking people. Insults like "you look like a russian prostitute for 10 bucks" do not really make you feel great about yourself. But I also met nice gorgious girls and I know that there is cannot deduce what people they are from looking at other persons' faces. Generalizations are never true. Take your cues from their behaviour with subordinates or general outlook on life, not from the shape of their lips or size of their breasts.

 

However, I DO feel intimidated by beautiful people. Maybe the insults went deeper than I thought, I don't really know, but I tend to shy away when in pretty company. But this is my problem.

 

02 cents for today.

[iwish]

That was my thread!! And i wasn't ripping into beautiful girls, i was missing my beautiful ex.

 

Carrot you come across like you really think your gods gift to men.. It's a bit much. I mean you seem to think your drop dead gorgeous. What happened to modesty?

 

I mean it's great that your confident but you make it sound like being attractive is a bad thing and it's not. I'd rather be a hot girl than a troll. Who has it harder?

 

i think the troll

[carrotgirl]

Iwish, it was your thread and I didn't want to thread-jack, but I do have some strong feelings about this kind of sweeping assignment of values based on looks. Nor did I take issue with anything you said on your thread. I think everything you said was all pretty understandable. It was the other comments that sucked.

 

That said, your comments here are illustrating the double-standard. You want to admire the beautiful things but you don't want the beautiful things to have any self awareness? False modesty is not a virtue.

 

I know what I look like. Personally, I don't think my physical appearance is what gets me noticed. I think it's presence. I don't carry myself like I owe the world an apology for my looks.

 

Now about this other comment, you think "trolls" have harder lives than hot girls? I think you'd be hard put to divide the girls up into trolls and hotties and then get a straight answer but from my own experience, I think I've got my fair share of hardship.

 

Carrot

[carrotgirl]

NM, I strongly believe that whatever compelled the people who said those things to you, it was not their looks. It was the sick, sociopathic fuccks they were. (If you'll allow me a little sincere humor while I sweep?)

 

Yah. I wasn't told I looked like a hooker, but a guy (NOT someone I'd dated) once said, You think you're special because you're beautiful and smart but you're not even worth as much as a hooker and it's too bad you're not a hooker because then at least I could feel something for you. And then he beat me up.

 

I've been on the other side of your discomfort with pretty people. I'm not above purposely looking bad when I think it's really important. Currently, my favorite vice is those sheets of nori for making sushi. I tear a piece off and stick it right on my front teeth and smile grandly for hours.

 

GD despises me for doing this and so do I really, but it helps.

 

Carrot

[Trialbyfire]

I personally find false modesty annoying as hell. It's so transparent and many times is used as a way to draw flattering comments.

 

It's also annoying to be judged by what you look like...but...you can also use it to your advantage.

 

For example, I'm petite (a PC way to describe being short) and feminine-looking. I get judged sometimes as being vacant and condescended to. This causes me to play up the vacancy and sandbag them, when they least expect it.

[carrotgirl]

I personally find false modesty annoying as hell. It's so transparent and many times is used as a way to draw flattering comments.

Tri! I'm so fat! Do you think this post makes me look fat?

[Trialbyfire]

Tri! I'm so fat! Do you think this post makes me look fat?

Of course not carrot! You're beautiful, as you are!

[carrotgirl]

Of course not carrot! You're beautiful, as you are!

I'm sure you're just saying that. I'm not beautiful. Do you really mean it?

I'm definitely feeling so two-dimensional in this post .... pout pout pout.

Let's go shopping! I need reeeally BIG sunglasses to hide my sorry face!

[sunshinegirl]

I have sometimes worried that boyfriends have wanted to date me just so they can say they "conquered" me. I worry that it's related to some combination of looks, smarts, accomplishments I have that generally seems to intimidate men.

 

I'm not sure my most recent ex truly appreciated me for me, who I am on the 'inside'. He was quite taken with my outside...as I was with his 'outside'. I thought I fell in love with his insides, too, but now I'm not sure how developed or deep his insides really are. I don't know. I'm confused. I miss him right now.

[Trialbyfire]

Haha...carrot. There's a methodology to big sunglasses. The bigger the sunglass and the more hair you pull over and around your face, the better looking you become!

[Nevermind]

It might surprise you, but there are people who really want to hide their face, and who do not find it funny to read jokes about this sentiment from beautiful people. It's nice that you two don't have this problem. But don't underestimate it. Trolls might not know the troubles of being pretty, but you also have no idea what it's like to be a troll. We all have our own life to live and making fun of other's (no matter in which direction) isn't going to improve it.

 

sunshinegirl: I think your ex had issues that didn't relate to you at all. Whatever made him be what he is, it wasn't you.

[Trialbyfire]

Nevermind, I've saw your pic when you posted it. Why do you feel you're a troll? I think you're far from it.

[carrotgirl]

{{{sunshine}}}

 

That is a tough worry. It's one of the reasons I only date guys I've been friends with for a long while (GD included). I don't want to wonder about what a guy sees in me.

 

Carrot

[Nevermind]

I know how I am viewed by other people. The russian prostitute? Not the only time I heard things like this. That's being a troll. People follow you when you go out? I get pushed out of the way to get to the pretty girls. Nice? No. Different problem, maybe equally bad for both troll and princess (to keep with the fairy tale image) It's okay, I never defined myself through looks and never will.

 

I know you and carrot didn't mean it bad and I am not offended, I just wanted to say that none of us can ever truly understand the reality of the opposite side.

[Trialbyfire]

This thread is also about the reality of being judged superficially. If you're the type of person that prioritizes the inside v. the external, it can also be hurtful when you realize that someone you care about, values the external as their highest priority. We all know that physical attraction can only go so far and last so long.

[carrotgirl]

It might surprise you, but there are people who really want to hide their face, and who do not find it funny to read jokes about this sentiment from beautiful people. It's nice that you two don't have this problem. But don't underestimate it. Trolls might not know the troubles of being pretty, but you also have no idea what it's like to be a troll. We all have our own life to live and making fun of other's (no matter in which direction) isn't going to improve it.

 

sunshinegirl: I think your ex had issues that didn't relate to you at all. Whatever made him be what he is, it wasn't you.

But NM! It might surprise you to know that there are days I feel so ugly I don't even want to go outside! Everyone will see how awful I look! But out I go. We all have those whistle a happy tune days.

 

And I'm pretty sure Tri and I were poking fun at the very transparent attention seeking ritual heard at lunch tables around America... You know the rules.... the first person must say something self-denigrating, the next person(s) must say it's not so. First person must ask again for reassurance. And then offer up self-indulgent activity. The others must all capitulate.

 

{{{NM}}

No alluding to or calling of self anything remotely Trollish allowed here!

Beauty is not about what you look like anyway. Know it. Believe it.

 

Carrot

[Nevermind]

Of course.

 

But initial attraction is build on looks. It might not only be the face but the way a person dresses, walks, moves...all of it, of course. The fact remains: the first thing we know about a person is how they look.

 

I do think it's easier to have a nice outside, because you will attract more people. The danger is that they never try to see inside you, as they feel satisfied with your outer beauty. This doesn't bode well for a long term commitment.

 

Being ugly, however, results in less attraction. The chance that somebody loves your inner beauty is probably higher for ugly people, but their problem is that there are fewer people who are actually interested in getting to know them romantically.

 

I do think beautiful people have problems, too. No question about it.

 

And I'm pretty sure Tri and I were poking fun at the very transparent attention seeking ritual heard at lunch tables around America... You know the rules.... the first person must say something self-denigrating, the next person(s) must say it's not so. First person must ask again for reassurance. And then offer up self-indulgent activity. The others must all capitulate.

 

Yeah, I know. Maybe I overreacted because I just bought some really big sunglasses. And I do feel much better when I wear them. But you couldn't know that.

[carrotgirl]

I just wanted to say that none of us can ever truly understand the reality of the opposite side.

In the sense that we are all individuals, and will never be exactly the same, okay. But NM, I don't have to walk a mile in TrialByFire's shoes to know that flames can char and burn.

 

I think we really can learn from each other and the way to do that is by talking about our differences, seeing them for what they are and then helping out with a friendly hug or kick in the a$$ as needed.

 

Carrot

[Trialbyfire]

So what, if you attract more, if they're the wrong people for you? You just have more crap to filter out, which can make you cynical pretty fast.

[Nevermind]

And if you attract nearly nobody your life is full with song and joy? Don't think that ugly people get only attraction from nice guys, who are into your inner beauty. Very often those are craptastic jerks who are too chickened out to ask a pretty girl.

 

I said it a couple of times: beautiful people have problems too. We can never understand each other's problems. We can only accept that there are problems on the other side.

 

Sorry for the threadjack.

[Trialbyfire]

No doubt there are two sides to the equation. Just don't think it's a song and dance for anyone.

 

When you've learned to put an eight foot wall around your heart, tell me how fun that can be.

 

Right now, I'm feeling kind of sensitive to this issue, as well. I had to cut loose the most amazing man last night because I didn't feel what I should have felt for him. I have some work to do on myself. At least I never led him on to believe I was emotionally available. He knew upfront that I wasn't, which was restated about a month into it. While we never got beyond the casual dating stage, it was his desire to go beyond that stage, that triggered last night's discussion.

[carrotgirl]

Sorry for the threadjack.

You're not thread-jacking. This conversation is the intended purpose of the thread.

 

My theory is that it doesn't matter whether or not we were born looking a certain way or started looking another way by way of choice or accident.

 

I don't believe our exteriors are the reasons for most of the people staying or going out of our lives.

[Nevermind]

Trial: I am sorry to hear it. Did you break things off for good or is there a chance to meet again? Are you sure about your feelings (or lack thereof) or is it the wall that hinders you from going forward?

[carrotgirl]

Right now, I'm feeling kind of sensitive to this issue, as well. I had to cut loose the most amazing man last night because I didn't feel what I should have felt for him. I have some work to do on myself. At least I never led him on to believe I was emotionally available. He knew upfront that I wasn't, which was restated about a month into it. While we never got beyond the casual dating stage, it was his desire to go beyond that stage, that triggered last night's discussion.

Tri are you tearing down or bolstering that coronary privacy fence?

 

I read this and momentarily wished it had gone beyond the casual dating stage so you could explain your emotions to me and help me better get GD's choices. But I think you summed up what I already guess, he needed to do his me work and I wasn't a part of that.

 

Selfish, though not mean,

Carrot