for BS

[rubies_for_horses]

i know there aren't many BS on here that have stayed with the WS, but for those that are present: how do you set about really healing? my husband and i do normal, every day things all the time and have a good sex life (4-5x/wk) - but we don't talk much about the A. we are in MC - which we started about a month ago (1x a week sessions). we talk about it there, but we kind of clam up at home. everyone says that communication is important - and i agree. but i also think that dredging it up when things are good is not helping.

 

basically, it's been 2 years - and i have no idea if we're healing, or if we're stuck in the same place. he seems to be really struggling lately, and i don't know how to help him.

[Lizzie60]

i know there aren't many BS on here that have stayed with the WS, but for those that are present: how do you set about really healing? my husband and i do normal, every day things all the time and have a good sex life (4-5x/wk) - but we don't talk much about the A. we are in MC - which we started about a month ago (1x a week sessions). we talk about it there, but we kind of clam up at home. everyone says that communication is important - and i agree. but i also think that dredging it up when things are good is not helping.

 

basically, it's been 2 years - and i have no idea if we're healing, or if we're stuck in the same place. he seems to be really struggling lately, and i don't know how to help him.

 

so I take it that you are the WS... right?

maybe you should ask your therapist about that lack of communication at home.. maybe he/she would give you tips on how to approach the subject.

[porter218]

Well I worked things out with my WS and to be honest I don't think it ever fully heals. The best thing for you to do is just spend quality time with him and build new memories with him. The more exciting and fun stuff you do together, the further back the bad memories get pushed. But if he wants to dredge it up then let him do it all he wants, and when he doesn't want to talk about it then leave it alone. You obviously can't take back what happened so just move forward and try to make you current life with him as happy as possible. And always try to make him feel comfortable in the fact that it will never happen again(assuming you are the WS?).

[Owl]

OK...we're four years into recovery, and I think as well recovered as you can get after an affair.

 

For me at least, there were several things that had to happen for me to consider us "recovered".

 

I needed to understand what motivated her to cheat. Why/how/when/where/what/etc... I needed to know the full truth of what happened. I needed to understand what it was that she felt was lacking in our relationship, so that I could ensure that she never had that reason to cheat again.

 

The destroyed trust took a long time to heal. She had to SHOW me she was trustworthy. She had to (with her actions) demonstrate that she was now trustworthy. That she'd learned good boundaries, that she was happy in our marriage after the changes had been made...I needed some 'proof' if you will that it wouldn't happen again.

 

I had to rebuild a lot of self-esteem as well. What she did really made me wonder at what was wrong with me...it took me a couple of years to realize it WASN'T ME that was wrong...it was more about HER failings than mine.

 

Communication IS key in this. You need to talk through what happened to get to the same point I did...you need to understand it, understand how it affected each other, and figure out how to heal from what it did to you, and to him.

 

You need to see an MC who understands the impacts from infidelity, and knows how to heal a marriage from them. Take a look at marriagebuilders...lots of good information there.

 

You CAN heal from this, but it takes WORK as well as time.

[silktricks]

What OWL said is spot on. In addition I'd add that for me it was important that if I brought up the affair he wouldn't freeze up and get all defensive. I needed to know that anything was fair to talk about at any time. I needed to know that he wasn't going to protect himself from my hurt by pretending it didn't exist.

 

Communication is, as you said, the key. If you sense your husband is feeling bad, why don't you ask him if there's anything troubling him. Either of you burying your head in the sand isn't, in the long run, going to help your relationship.

 

As the other posters have said, it sounds like you were the WS. You need to make it very clear to your husband that what happened was your problem and not his fault. That said, the marriage obviously had issues, and the biggest was probably poor communication. Work on it.

 

and the best of luck.

[twice_shy]

Well I worked things out with my WS and to be honest I don't think it ever fully heals.

 

I think you are correct, never fully.

 

But haven't you ever asked yourself, "don't I deserve better than to be with a cheater?" I know you must have your reasons for working it out, but I just have to wonder if you wouldn't be happier with someone else, or at the very least without a WS.

[smartgirl]

Owl and Silktricks really covered the bases. I would add that real transparency has to be there for anything to work. My H tried to keep a number of secrets over the first 7 months which came out anyway and have made recovery all the harder. Your H has to see that you have really changed. Not that you have changed just enough to keep him from leaving.

 

In addition, I would say talking about it is key. You may not want to be reminded of what you have done, but that won't make it go away. The natural tendency of most men is to avoid talking about things. But if the two of you can't talk about this when you are alone, then I would say in general the communications in your marriage is weak and may not be good enough to support the M going foward. As in all subjects, often it is the wife who must draw her H out. By taking a let sleeping dogs lie approach, you are really just leaving him to stew in his own juices. If you love him, do what is best for him not what is best for you.

 

Two years is nothing. We are at two years and I am still struggling with many aspects of this. The fact that he must still have contact with the OW at work is a big part of it. But it was the lack of honesty and openess afterwards that has cause the most damage. Be sure you don't make the same mistake.

[rubies_for_horses]

thank you for the advice.

 

smartgirl: i am perfectly willing to talk whenever he wants to do so - and i have kept no secrets from him. i am NC with the OM -and i have no interest in ever seeing him again. however, it is my husband who seems to want to avoid talking about it. i don't know how to draw him out about it. i've asked him directly if we can talk about it - but he always seems to avoid the subject. he goes to counseling, but he's not that talkative.

 

lately, he just seems to want to avoid mention of it altogether. of course - i do too - because it's less painful that way - but i'm not sure that it's helping our situation.

[mopar crazy]

My IC told me to not bring up the A b/c it was like pulling a band-aid off from a wound and not allowing it to heal. Well, I HAD to know, it was eating me up. He never wanted to talk about his A but he did. He knew if I wanted answers he needed to tell me.

 

Five years later I am healed but I will never forget. There are times one of us will bring up the A and it doesn't bother me as much anymore. However, if I sit and think about it and continue to do that I become depressed so I try not to do that.

 

Continue w/ the counseling. If your H doesn't want to talk about the A, do not bring it up.

[smartgirl]

thank you for the advice.

 

smartgirl: i am perfectly willing to talk whenever he wants to do so - and i have kept no secrets from him. i am NC with the OM -and i have no interest in ever seeing him again. however, it is my husband who seems to want to avoid talking about it. i don't know how to draw him out about it. i've asked him directly if we can talk about it - but he always seems to avoid the subject. he goes to counseling, but he's not that talkative.

 

lately, he just seems to want to avoid mention of it altogether. of course - i do too - because it's less painful that way - but i'm not sure that it's helping our situation.

 

I wish there was a cure for the terminally non-verbal. My H is normally the same way and is a professional conflict avoider. He could win the Olympics in that event.

 

He was more verbal and articulate that I thought possible in the first year and a half after the A, but he was the WS and I guess felt he owed it to me. At first much of the talk was about the facts, then it began shifting into discussion about ourselves, how our issues led to the A and how we needed to change.

 

Is he even willing to talk about how to improve your relationship/communication? I'd say that off hand, he needs to understand that claming up is exactly the kind of behavior that can lead to affairs. When one person is unhappy, they owe it to their partner to be open about that and about what might be done to fix it. Otherwise, you will both find yourself being unhappy.

 

Talking doesn't have to mean discussing the details of the affair. But understanding how he is feeling is critical to the healing equation. If you aren't getting the right kind of help from your therapist, you might want to consider talking to another. This isn't healthy for your H or your relationship.

 

As a first step, would he be willing to do some reading? Has he already? I would suggest "After the Affair" and "the New Male Sexuality" (have to get that one through Amazon as it is older). The second one really speaks to the male mindset and might be the most helpful for him overall. I thought it was very enlightening as well.

[rubies_for_horses]

actually, i'm reading "after the affair" now - and i find it really helpful - especially when the author talks about the feelings of the betrayed spouse. it helps me understand my husband better. it's hard to read though and realize that i'm the root of all these horrible feelings. i guess he would probably read it, if i really asked him to - but like i said - it's been 2 years. the facts are all out - we've discussed it. i think we know why i had the affair - what else is there to talk about? isn't there some point at which you stop talking about it and you start to move on and heal? where you start to try and have a normal life that doesn't include conversation about it? he is willing to talk, but it seems painful and often counter-productive.

 

our counselor is a very good listener, but she isn't big on making suggestions about how to heal our relationship. we've only had 3 hard-core sessions, so i'm withholding judgment. however - i think that i need a more proactive counselor. i guess we'll wait a few more sessions and see what we think.

[silktricks]

I wish there was a cure for the terminally non-verbal. My H is normally the same way and is a professional conflict avoider. He could win the Olympics in that event.

 

I would bet huge amounts of money that every BS would say the same thing about their WS .

[silktricks]

i think we know why i had the affair - what else is there to talk about? isn't there some point at which you stop talking about it and you start to move on and heal? where you start to try and have a normal life that doesn't include conversation about it? he is willing to talk, but it seems painful and often counter-productive.

 

Talking about "it" doesn't necessarily mean talking about the affair, nor about why you had it. It means talking about your relationship now. What's on, what's off. Where are the problem areas?

 

The deal is that the "normal life" you had included not taking care of each other. That's why your relationship broke - right? So now "normal life" needs to include the things that make your relationship good. Communication is usually number one.

[soda]

As someone whose wife has been engaged in a couple of EAs...you need to get out of any sense of denial mode that you might be in. If you're blaming him for the affair, or making him shoulder "half" of the burden, he's always going to struggle with it. Even now that my wife and I are in MC and attempting to heal our relationship, I have a lot of thoughts about divorcing her ass for what she did...and denied...and tried to place me at fault for. Your husband may always struggle...every action has consequences, and sometimes the best you can do is bust your butt to make the situation the best it can be.

 

I hate to be a pessimest...but life is not an Etch-a-Sketch...you can't "start over."

[smartgirl]

Rubies, I put up a thread "attention male BS" to try and round up more input for you. There are some really thoughtful guys out there and maybe they can help. Check that thread too.

[whichwayisup]

Ruby, do you think in the past 2 years your marriage is better? What was the state of your marriage before the A? How can you compare it to how it is now, in the sense of you and your husband reconnecting and trying harder to meet eachothers needs?

 

I DO believe there's ALOT going on inside your husband but he is letting fear of fighting it out, fear of the "what if's" the marrige can't make it, take over. Talking about your A and how he is feeling now scares him and he probably can't handle it so it's easier for him to ignore and sweep under the rug. Problem is, THIS is where resentments come from and one day something may trigger him and he'll lose it. Not saying he'll go postal but all the stuff he's been holding in and/or ignoring, those feelings, thoughts and fears WILL surface evetually.

 

I suggest after you finish reading that book, leave it out so he can stumble across it. Either in the bathroom or somewhere in the bedroom. Maybe he'll read it.

[rubies_for_horses]

we had a painful but very good MC session today. it provoked a very long, thoughtful conversation between us on the way home (we drive 2 hours one way to MC - long story). no arguments, no recriminations, just good, deep talking. he's going to read the book starting tomorrow.

 

i'm emotionally spent today but always hopeful.

[Screwedover]

Rubies, are you the WS or the BS? I am new here so bear with me, but it's hard to answer your question without knowing which party you are.

 

I am about 2.5 years out (BS) from a 10-year affair. Yes, 10 years. With a friend of ours (though not all that close). It has been a very difficult struggle for me. I never knew how tough I was.

 

 

I know you must have your reasons for working it out, but I just have to wonder if you wouldn't be happier with someone else, or at the very least without a WS.

 

 

This is a fair question but I do think all relationships are like fingerprints: they are very unique, and generalizations about leaving or staying don't apply (unless there is some obvious underlying factor - such as abuse, or continued cheating). Some waywards are clearly not worth giving a second chance. Others are. That said, new relationships are something I think everyone thinks about, but there is absolutely no guarantee that you aren't going to end up with another freaking joker, you know?

 

In my case, there are times when I have wondered if I'd be happier alone. Is still wonder that, and I have a former WS who is doing almost everything right. The damage is so, so extensive though. Married life will never be the same. I have adapted to a new kind of "normal." Obviously the good outweighs the bad, or I'd be outta here.

[boomer9x]

Speaking as a BS that is still currently being betrayed, I can say for certain that just seeing how important it is to you and how hard you are working at it is the best thing you could be doing. It does make me a little jealous because my wife is still denying that they are more than just friends, saying we are where we are because of me and is very defiant when I tell her what I need. I've told her how close I am to giving up and while she says she doesn't want to give up, it doesn't seem as important as it should.

 

While you were in your affair, did you feel more empowered and less concerned about your husband's pain? I am curious because I am praying to God that my WS gets to where you are, I start crying when I read someone say that their WS begs them for forgiveness and tells them that they will do anything to make it better. That they want to work on the marriage because it is important to them. Her affair just started a bit over a month ago so I'm hoping it's just because it's new.....but I would be interested in the process that got you to this point?

 

I believe there are times when an affair can actually be the best thing that happened to a marriage, because unfortunately sometimes it takes that kind of kick to the face to address issues that are being denied. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone and there will always be trust issues, but if your marriage can come out stronger than ever, then it happened for a reason.

 

I have a feeling you will be ok Ruby because you really seemed to have learned from your mistake and want to do everything in your power to make it right. Good for you!

[rubies_for_horses]

boomer: i apologize for not getting back to you sooner.

 

first off, i am so sorry that you are currently a BS. i watched my husband suffer for the past 2 years due to my childish and selfish behavior, and i know that you are really hurting.

 

i don't know if you know my story - but my husband and i were both in graduate school when it occurred. i had lost 3 people in my family in a 2 month period - one of the deaths was incredibly tragic. i was very emotionally spent - i would almost describe it as feeling dead. i loved my husband, but obviously some part of me just didn't care that i was hurting him. i didn't feel empowered exactly - i just felt like it was taking my mind off everything - how hard graduate school was, how much i was devastated by the horrible death of my family member, it was something that i could focus on and feel good about when it was happening.

 

i will say 100% honestly that i was not myself when i was involved in the affair. i thought about suicide regularly. i was depressed and moody and miserable. not exactly what most people think of when they think about an affair. it was exciting and fun when i was with the other man, sure - but i saw him for maybe 2 hours a week. now that i look back on it - i feel like i was hooked on a drug. it was like being addicted to something. i see it clearly now - and it's despicable. it was destructive, selfish, and it risked everything good in my life (and i have a lot of good in my life in the form of my husband's wonderful family and friends).

 

i can tell you this - the fog lifted. i don't know what did it -but one day i looked at my husband and realized how much i was hurting him (even though he didn't even know i was having an affair) and that i had to stop it. for me the only way to stop myself was to tell my husband. i ended it...and now that it has, i look back on the affair with utter revulsion. your wife may very well feel that way one day - but you can't make her see it now. no one could help me see it - not my best friend, not my mom, no one. i had to follow my own stupid path - to whatever destructive end.

 

i think (and this is solely my opinion) that you need to give your wife an ultimatum. you cannot heal your marriage with only 1 committed partner. as much as it hurts - you need to walk away from her until she does the right thing - whatever that is. if she wants to stay with you - then you can decide if you'll be able to heal and move forward together (something my husband struggles with still). and if she doesn't - then it wasn't worth it to begin with. i'm 110% committed to my husband and repairing our marriage, but that doesn't mean we're going to work. and know this - you will survive. you may think that without your wife you won't be able to survive - because that's how i really feel when i think about my life without my husband in it. but you will pick yourself up and go on - no matter what happens.

 

i hope that helps. feel free to question me more if you need help. i'm here.

[rubies_for_horses]

screwed over: see my previous post for answers to your question (i am the WS). and i agree with you about marriages being like fingerprints. there is so much good in our marriage - we had 9 years together before during which we had a great marriage. ending it now would not only throw that away but it would also separate our families and friends, who are all deeply entwined. it's hard, but i believe that anything worth having is worth working for, right?

 

as for adapting to a new kind of normal, i think my husband would explain it exactly that way.

[boomer9x]

i had lost 3 people in my family in a 2 month period - one of the deaths was incredibly tragic. i was very emotionally spent - i would almost describe it as feeling dead. i loved my husband, but obviously some part of me just didn't care that i was hurting him. i didn't feel empowered exactly - i just felt like it was taking my mind off everything - how hard graduate school was, how much i was devastated by the horrible death of my family member, it was something that i could focus on and feel good about when it was happening.

 

That is exactly what my wife says. She feels dead inside or in her words "broken" and that talking to him is just to hear his stories about his life to take her mind off of her problems. She says she can't stop right now because she "needs it".

 

now that i look back on it - i feel like i was hooked on a drug. it was like being addicted to something. i see it clearly now - and it's despicable.

Again, she "needs" to talk to him now. Even if it ends our marriage. I feel like we need to have an intervention!

 

i can tell you this - the fog lifted. i don't know what did it -but one day i looked at my husband and realized how much i was hurting him (even though he didn't even know i was having an affair) and that i had to stop it.

I can only pray that this happens. She tells me that she knows she's hurting me and even apologizes! But then says she can't stop...

 

you can't make her see it now. no one could help me see it - not my best friend, not my mom, no one. i had to follow my own stupid path - to whatever destructive end.

Her mom, sister and my parents are all very disappointed in her. Her friends also tell her that it's wrong as does her therapist, but she just says that "no one understands her" and continues on.

 

i think (and this is solely my opinion) that you need to give your wife an ultimatum.

Tried that but it just makes her mad and feel like I'm trying to "control her". I think she would let me file for divorce just for spite! She might come to her senses before it actually happened but who knows with her mind where it is right now.

 

and know this - you will survive. you may think that without your wife you won't be able to survive - because that's how i really feel when i think about my life without my husband in it. but you will pick yourself up and go on - no matter what happens.

 

i hope that helps. feel free to question me more if you need help. i'm here.

Thank you Ruby, I appreciate the encouragement