tinktronik Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 I've always wondered, why the insistence that when a person breaks off their R, or moves on or even cheats that they are loosing out on something? Loosing by not being with you? Lost something good? I truly don't get it. Maybe that person was just ready for the next stage of their lives. Maybe they have not lost out on anything. Maybe they have simply left a R that was not satisfying to them. I just see that continuously on here, "Your ex has lost "this or that". I don't mean to be callous, but I can not think of a singe person that I left a R with that I regret , and I cannot think of a single person that left a R with me that has lost anything either. It just strikes me that life is constant change, thats the way it is , in small ways or in large. So this whole topic confuses me. Any thoughts?
0hpenelope Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 I've always wondered, why the insistence that when a person breaks off their R, or moves on or even cheats that they are loosing out on something? Loosing by not being with you? Lost something good? I truly don't get it. Maybe that person was just ready for the next stage of their lives. Maybe they have not lost out on anything. Maybe they have simply left a R that was not satisfying to them. I just see that continuously on here, "Your ex has lost "this or that". I don't mean to be callous, but I can not think of a singe person that I left a R with that I regret , and I cannot think of a single person that left a R with me that has lost anything either. It just strikes me that life is constant change, thats the way it is , in small ways or in large. So this whole topic confuses me. Any thoughts? I think that when we say things like that, it's based on our perspective that we're made of good stuff and this good stuff is unique to everyone on this planet. It's not just encased by qualities like kindness, compassion, intelligence, etc. It's all of that + other stuff that makes me me and that makes you you. Anyone who leaves us misses out on that good stuff. I used to have this mindset, too, that exes don't know what they had with me, etc. But there's someone on LS who had this interesting piece of wisdom she shared... Something about (and this isn't word for word accurate) that although she knows that she's got good qualities, not everyone is going to appreciate that. So my perspective has changed now, too. If they leave me, then a safe journey to them - I don't need to be around them anymore and don't give me that friendship offer, I'm not interested. If I leave them, then I don't stick around either; I don't offer to stay friends. My Biology professors have said time and time again that the only constant in life is change - especially at the cellular level, which is the basic level of physical life. Absolutely true. Just my $0.02.
Nevermind Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Huge part of it is self-validation. We have been dropped, we feel devalued, worthless sometimes. We need to think about all the good things in us and about the possibility that the ex didn't realize we had all of it in us. We need to focus on our own ability to make somebody truly happy - and when we realize this, we also see that we will never make our exes happy again. So, they lose out on this option, at least. In a mutual break-up people usually don't need that much validation, but if you have been dumped, or cheated on, it is good to look at ourselves in the most positive of lights. An ex doesn't need to realize that they lost somebody great, for it to be true. Of course, in bad relationships you're not losing anything. Neither in relationships that just didn't work out, but you will see that the "he loses out on you" postings are connected to bad endings. It's part of the healing process.
Author tinktronik Posted June 7, 2008 Author Posted June 7, 2008 Both of these reasons seem sane and valid. I have always just assumed that most people are made of stuff good and bad, positive and negative. So when an ex leaves they would just prefer to aim themselves toward a person with a different set of positives and negatives.
stlnsmile Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 I think too that most people on this forum, have been hurt in ways, that a mature healthy break up, would not go. I mean most people have been gutted. And I think on some level that shows that the person doing the breaking was not in a healthy place and may live to regret the decision or at least will not change as a person. The people that do the breaking I think many times are not communicating over the long haul of the relationship and are not in touch with themselves. This is why they hurt the people they say they love. I guess all I am saying is that I do believe in most cases on this forum that the person who did the breaking up had issues. I am not talking about the ones who try to communicate their needs over the long haul of the relationship and realise that it just is not working. I am talking about the selfish, immature people who do not say anything, drop a bomb, cheet, judge selfishly, and a hundred other things. And those people I think do loose. The reason why is they are un-whole people to begin with. They do not know who they are. And they will repeat that pattern in all future relationships. At least for a long time. And most of the people it seems who get gutted by these type are immensly giving people, who gave too much and ended up not appreciated for it. I do think there is validity in the statements people make that they will see what they lost....bla bla bla. I think these un whole people are leaches sucking out the life force of the strong if you want to know the truth. I think there are some that genuinly do not think it is working out, but those are the types who are communicating with their partner to begin with. They are telling them the feelings as they are happening or as soon as they realise them, and there are no bombs, the partner knows what is going on. So ultimately, yes I do believe in part that people who do the breaking up, when they gut the other person, are defective in some way and will reap what they sow, they are not healthy.
0hpenelope Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 I think too that most people on this forum, have been hurt in ways, that a mature healthy break up, would not go. I mean most people have been gutted. And I think on some level that shows that the person doing the breaking was not in a healthy place and may live to regret the decision or at least will not change as a person. The people that do the breaking I think many times are not communicating over the long haul of the relationship and are not in touch with themselves. This is why they hurt the people they say they love. I guess all I am saying is that I do believe in most cases on this forum that the person who did the breaking up had issues. I am not talking about the ones who try to communicate their needs over the long haul of the relationship and realise that it just is not working. I am talking about the selfish, immature people who do not say anything, drop a bomb, cheet, judge selfishly, and a hundred other things. And those people I think do loose. The reason why is they are un-whole people to begin with. They do not know who they are. And they will repeat that pattern in all future relationships. At least for a long time. And most of the people it seems who get gutted by these type are immensly giving people, who gave too much and ended up not appreciated for it. I do think there is validity in the statements people make that they will see what they lost....bla bla bla. I think these un whole people are leaches sucking out the life force of the strong if you want to know the truth. I think there are some that genuinly do not think it is working out, but those are the types who are communicating with their partner to begin with. They are telling them the feelings as they are happening or as soon as they realise them, and there are no bombs, the partner knows what is going on. So ultimately, yes I do believe in part that people who do the breaking up, when they gut the other person, are defective in some way and will reap what they sow, they are not healthy. True. I agree with a lot of what's here.
Trialbyfire Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 It's very much all about the ego. When you get burnt, salve over the wound can help until you're ready to move forward with life. How long you remain in no-man's land is up to you. Some stay in this land, soaking up more and more salve, to nurse a wound they keep endlessly ripping open. I do agree that in the long-term, there's not one relationship that I've regretted leaving. Could this also be considered a salve? Seriously speaking, everyone cycles through loss a different way and at a different pace. I personally don't fall for anyone easily so when it comes time to move on, it sometimes takes awhile to get out of the serial monogamist routine. This doesn't mean that I'll stay in the land of the dead/pathetic, during this period. Best not to give control to anyone who doesn't have your best interests in mind!
Storyrider Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 On a related note, I've been thinking about the value placed on being in a life-long relationship as an end in itself. There is no doubt that it is an accomplishment, and I wouldn't want to undervalue it for people who has been happily married for their entire lives. My grandparents actually lived to celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary, although I wouldn't say that their marriage was smooth sailing or that they were both consistently happy. It was what many would call "co-dependent." (What is "happily married" anyway? It seems like a misnomer.) I also have a friend who married and raised her children with one man. And then when her kids were grown, she decided that she and her husband weren't that compatible. They divorced amicably and she eventually married someone else. Why is this considered a lesser accomplishment that they made it through twenty years of marriage as opposed to fifty? I guess because the vows say "till death". But who wrote the vows and what was the underlying reason for the high value placed on lifelong relationships? Certainly it was about people taking care of each other. But in modern life, where people have choices about how to make sure they are taken care of, I wonder whether we can still defend lifelong marriage as the only ideal?
Trialbyfire Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 Is it possible to quantify success? I would think it's individual reliant, since everyone sets the height of their own bars.
Storyrider Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 Look at jobs. Work relationships used to be life-long as well. In fact, my grandfather I spoke of above was with the same company all his life, from age 17, when he started as a stock boy at a factory, to when he retired as the foreman over dozens of people. That was the ideal then and it would be unthinkable now. It wouldn't benefit the company or the employee.
loomis Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 I think too that most people on this forum, have been hurt in ways, that a mature healthy break up, would not go. I mean most people have been gutted. And I think on some level that shows that the person doing the breaking was not in a healthy place and may live to regret the decision or at least will not change as a person. The people that do the breaking I think many times are not communicating over the long haul of the relationship and are not in touch with themselves. This is why they hurt the people they say they love. I guess all I am saying is that I do believe in most cases on this forum that the person who did the breaking up had issues. I am not talking about the ones who try to communicate their needs over the long haul of the relationship and realise that it just is not working. I am talking about the selfish, immature people who do not say anything, drop a bomb, cheet, judge selfishly, and a hundred other things. And those people I think do loose. The reason why is they are un-whole people to begin with. They do not know who they are. And they will repeat that pattern in all future relationships. At least for a long time. And most of the people it seems who get gutted by these type are immensly giving people, who gave too much and ended up not appreciated for it. I do think there is validity in the statements people make that they will see what they lost....bla bla bla. I think these un whole people are leaches sucking out the life force of the strong if you want to know the truth. I think there are some that genuinly do not think it is working out, but those are the types who are communicating with their partner to begin with. They are telling them the feelings as they are happening or as soon as they realise them, and there are no bombs, the partner knows what is going on. So ultimately, yes I do believe in part that people who do the breaking up, when they gut the other person, are defective in some way and will reap what they sow, they are not healthy. I absolutely agree with you. I think The person who does the breaking, If they do it right, in a mature manner I think the break up wouldn't be as bad (i.e. good communication, support, try and try) better. I do realize that for dumpers they reach a breaking point though. I had an interesting thought the other day. My gf broke up with me after 3 years. She said she had been feeling this way for a year, that her love was basically fading. Well I had no idea because in that time we had bought a dog, lived together and done so much together. So with that lack of communication and the surprise of the break up, there was nothing I could do. she had already had time for her love to fade, which I found unfair, but what do you do? Thats why I thought it was interesting because now I have to go through the process of healing where as she has had the luxury of just slowly fading. Its hard and I think thats why most people who get dumped feel like the dumper is losing out on something special because of their lack of communication or whatever it may be. Its mostly lack of communication though. I think a lot of times its just a maturity thing. funny though after reading tons of these posts it almost doesn't seem like people ever mature lol. It can happen at any age and anytime of your life. There is someone out there for everyone though. Its just finding that person that loves all the things about you and only you
stlnsmile Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 I think some people are questioning the validity of long term comittment and love. All I know is what I see with my parents. They are together because they genuinly like each other. They make each other laugh all of the time. They enjoy life together. And I think when a relationship is fullfilling there is absolute value to it, and health benefits as well. I believe in it. I know my parents have been through the worst stuff together, and it never changes their relationship. So that being said, I personally would not want anything else. I think the people who are questioning it, have never had the benefit of really seeing it work well. That being said, I think all long term comitted relationships have an element of co-dependancy involved. I mean if you REALY don't NEED anyone, at all, well then why be with anyone at all? I mean life is so much easier with out having to share it and work it with someone else. I personally NEED people in my life. I personally need support in my life. Does that make me co-dependant? Probably. But its a co-dependancy that I want in my life, that I choose for myself? I think that people who have seen the value of having a life long friend, confidant, and lover, will agree, it truly is remarkable to see. That does not mean they give up living, they just live together. Thats all I see. I think thats why it is so important to marry your friend. Your best friend. I have seen my mom when my grandmom died, run to my fathers arms, and him holding her and talking in her ear, and stroking her hair. Does that make my mother co-dependant? I don't think so, I think she loves and Needs my father. He is her best friend, her goto guy. And he likes being the goto guy. Pretty simple really. Now I just need to find my goto guy, the one who will be there when the going gets tough.
stlnsmile Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 It's very much all about the ego. When you get burnt, salve over the wound can help until you're ready to move forward with life. How long you remain in no-man's land is up to you. Some stay in this land, soaking up more and more salve, to nurse a wound they keep endlessly ripping open. I do agree that in the long-term, there's not one relationship that I've regretted leaving. Could this also be considered a salve? Seriously speaking, everyone cycles through loss a different way and at a different pace. I personally don't fall for anyone easily so when it comes time to move on, it sometimes takes awhile to get out of the serial monogamist routine. This doesn't mean that I'll stay in the land of the dead/pathetic, during this period. Best not to give control to anyone who doesn't have your best interests in mind! Well ultimately yes. I mean for me, when my ex broke up with me, of course I could not understand it. How could he do it? Why did he do it? Didn't he feel the way I did? It takes a long time for the ego to comprehend, that NO, in fact they did not value the relationship the way you did, and that they did not value you. I mean who would not be devistated if their ex just said, "I don't value you at all". But the healing comes when you realize that for yourself. When you realize that to them you are a tradable commodity. Replacable. That they actually did not value you, as a person...well then you can move on. If people would actually find some way to say that in break ups, it would be fantastic. The truth would set you free so much sooner. But people try to save face and say the whole "lets be friends, I care for you, you'll always be in my life" crap. And I guess its a nice thing to do. As for picking scabs...well the ego needs time to accept and then time to heal. But if the dumpee is so not valuable, why is it dumpers always come back? Not always of course, but many many times, even years later? Its because they are mental defectives who are clueless about what good is and what honesty and living in truth is. Sorry, but thats my opinion. Not towards the good dumpers who gave it their all and were honest in life. I'm talking to all the other ones.
kizik Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 It takes a long time for the ego to comprehend, that NO, in fact they did not value the relationship the way you did, and that they did not value you. But the healing comes when you realize that for yourself. When you realize that to them you are a tradable commodity. Replaceable. That they actually did not value you, as a person...well then you can move on. If people would actually find some way to say that in break ups, it would be fantastic. The truth would set you free so much sooner. But people try to save face and say the whole "lets be friends, I care for you, you'll always be in my life" crap. And I guess its a nice thing to do. But if the dumpee is so not valuable, why is it dumpers always come back? Not always of course, but many many times, even years later? Its because they are mental defectives who are clueless about what good is and what honesty and living in truth is. Not towards the good dumpers who gave it their all and were honest in life. I'm talking to all the other ones. I've quoted the truest parts, the parts that rang closest to home, for me. Yes, the fact is that the dumpers do not value you. Once you come to realize it, you can begin to see the bigger picture. You look back on the way they treated you, and how it made you feel. And you go, "WTF? That wasn't right. Why did I stick around for that?" The dumpers DO come back to apologize, often times. Case in point: Last night I got an email from a girl that dumped me 5 years ago. She was incredibly apologetic and guilt-ridden. She hopes I'm not mad at her, etc. Says she "wasted my love." The most recent ex and I broke up only a month ago. She will someday realize her selfishness in the R, I believe, but it could take 5 years. I've been wanting it to happen so much sooner, of course, but it is TIME that allows us to understand the way we acted, and whether or not it was right.
Trialbyfire Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 If people would actually find some way to say that in break ups, it would be fantastic. The truth would set you free so much sooner. But people try to save face and say the whole "lets be friends, I care for you, you'll always be in my life" crap. And I guess its a nice thing to do. You'll find that I'm one of the last people to believe in the soft-sell. Tell it like it is and stop wasting my time.
stlnsmile Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 I've quoted the truest parts, the parts that rang closest to home, for me. Yes, the fact is that the dumpers do not value you. Once you come to realize it, you can begin to see the bigger picture. You look back on the way they treated you, and how it made you feel. And you go, "WTF? That wasn't right. Why did I stick around for that?" The dumpers DO come back to apologize, often times. Case in point: Last night I got an email from a girl that dumped me 5 years ago. She was incredibly apologetic and guilt-ridden. She hopes I'm not mad at her, etc. Says she "wasted my love." The most recent ex and I broke up only a month ago. She will someday realize her selfishness in the R, I believe, but it could take 5 years. I've been wanting it to happen so much sooner, of course, but it is TIME that allows us to understand the way we acted, and whether or not it was right. Yes, and this is not to say that the dumpers are horrible human beings. I know I said mental defective, but what I really mean, is just many times they are not mature, or they lack the emotional fortitude to live honestly with themselves. I forgive my ex, I really do, he was young, he came from a messed up family who never showed him real love, he just didn't know which way was up. Yeah, so he handled things badly, and even to some degree used me. Okay...so I was used. Lesson learned, life goes on. It hurt, I will never be the same because of it, but I learned to be so much stronger because of it. And you know, I actually wish him a lot of happiness. Moving on, I think dumpers really do loose many times. I think it is a mental maturity issue and a comittment issue but most of all, an honesty issue. When things are handled maturly, then people aren't shocked at out comes, things have been talked through, and even though it is painful, usually a lot of time has been invested. And truthfully if the love is real, it won't be given up on even when it gets really really hard.
kizik Posted June 8, 2008 Posted June 8, 2008 And truthfully if the love is real, it won't be given up on even when it gets really really hard. Yes. My love was real, and I hung in there like a motherf*cker. Hers wasn't, and I could tell because she gave up and refused to work on herself. Let me go b/c she "couldn't do this anymore." Argh. Waiting 5 years for that phone call... 1
foxh1234 Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 My ex and I both lost in this break up I think. She lost alot of friends and she lost my respect. I think I am a great guy and I treated her well. She lost the chance to be with me and to me, that is a big loss. I lost my best friend and lover. When she cheated on me I lost a part of my heart that I will never get back. I lost being able to tell her my deepest darkest feelings and have her say it was OK. It will be a long long time before I trust another woman as much as I trusted my ex. I also believed in loving someone forever. I no longer believe it is possible.
Surfer Girl Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 Some people are in there comfort zone with being used and abused.... Manipulated, cheated on, stealing... Drama... Childhood nighmares Personally, IMHO if one really loves someone they do not lie, cheat and manipulate... Maybe sometime he will realize the difference... I could never do the things he did...
orangehose Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 I've always wondered, why the insistence that when a person breaks off their R, or moves on or even cheats that they are loosing out on something? Loosing by not being with you? Lost something good? I truly don't get it. Maybe that person was just ready for the next stage of their lives. Maybe they have not lost out on anything. Maybe they have simply left a R that was not satisfying to them. I just see that continuously on here, "Your ex has lost "this or that". I don't mean to be callous, but I can not think of a singe person that I left a R with that I regret , and I cannot think of a single person that left a R with me that has lost anything either. It just strikes me that life is constant change, thats the way it is , in small ways or in large. So this whole topic confuses me. Any thoughts? It is ego speaking. As exquisitively painful as it is for me to admit in my current state as a dumpee, sometimes the dumper really DOESN'T ever feel like they lost something worth having. I know this because I was the dumper in the relationship before the last one, and I have not looked back or felt loss about it - only relief and liberation upon initially ending it, eventually fading to a rational conclusion that it was the right decision, because I was happier single and out of it than I was in it. Even now, having recently endured some nasty treatment at the hands of my latest boyfriend, and rationally knowing that my prior one was a nicer person on the whole, I have no desire to go back to that old relationship (for the same reasons that caused me to end it years ago). It pains me to think that my latest ex could feel the same way about our relationsihp's demise, but it doesn't mean it's not true. Often love is unequal in a relationship, and it eventually has to come to an end. I do hold on to some hope though that dumpers may eventually feel remorse for the MANNER in which they broke up with you, if it was callous, cruel, involved a third party or other scandalous behavior etc. They may or may not ever share that feeling with you, IF they have it. If they DON'T have it, well, they're not a good person you'd want to have a relationship with anyway, rationally speaking. Of course, just because one person couldn't appreciate you doesn't mean you're not truly awesome. Plenty of works of art and literature are not appreciated by the majority of the populace but are still fabulous.
orangehose Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 It is ego speaking. As exquisitively painful as it is for me to admit in my current state as a dumpee, sometimes the dumper really DOESN'T ever feel like they lost something worth having. I know this because I was the dumper in the relationship before the last one, and I have not looked back or felt loss about it - only relief and liberation upon initially ending it, eventually fading to a rational conclusion that it was the right decision, because I was happier single and out of it than I was in it. Even now, having recently endured some nasty treatment at the hands of my latest boyfriend, and rationally knowing that my prior one was a nicer person on the whole, I have no desire to go back to that old relationship (for the same reasons that caused me to end it years ago). I should clarify, lest I appear callous, that I did feel SOME loss after dumping the ex ex, but probably not as much as he felt, just as the situation is now reversed - also that I do have more appreciation for the ex ex's nicer qualities, although I would never go back to him, and also that I feel 90% good about the way in which I broke up with him (after deliberating for a LONG time, sharing issues and giving him multiple second chances, discussing things until he too began to agree that we were incompatible, which was a relief to me)...
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