Reconciliation - What to expect?

[SingleDad]

I lost 35 lbs (198 to 163) over the anguish I faced - 30 lbs in the first 30 days.

 

I was losing it - I was never religious, but I found a few sermons which have given me strength...

 

Here is a link to a couple of powerful sermons:

 

http://www.thechapelatcrosspoint.com/dev/?page=sundays

 

Find the one dated 2007-04-22 called the Endurance

 

There is another 2007-04-29 called the Titanic

 

They may give you strength abd guidance - I listen to them repeatedly.

 

Also, Yesterday's Fathers day sermon was also incredible - It should be posted by Wed. You can also listen to the Father's day sermons from the last 2 years

 

Let me know your thoughts

[TrustInYourself]

I would love to watch these. At work though in a training seminar.

[TrustInYourself]

I'm thinking my desperation is the result of this Oracle training. Death by training seminar.

[SingleDad]

At least you still have a sense of Humor.

 

Listen to the sermons when you get a chance - I think the second half of both of them are better

[TrustInYourself]

Thanks for talking with me. I am worried about the reprecussions of my impatience and anger on my wife this morning when we talked on the phone demanding answers.

 

I feel better, still underlying currents of all that was discussed earlier.

[SingleDad]

Patience is a virtue... Watch your tongue... hateful words run deep and are not easily forgotten. If you are not able to hold your tongue then do the NC route until you can be polite.

 

(do as I say, not as I do)

[SingleDad]

My Ex just stopped by my work for a missing signature on the deed to the house...(signing it over to me- she gets a lump sum check) I have been so angry... I could not respond to her... I just signed without looking or talking with her. Then, I still have to assume the mortgage and re-finance the home equity and put all utility bills in my name. She is buying a new house and moving out 2-3 months from now..

 

I love her and do not want this... especially for our daughter, but there is nothing I can do but be a puppet...and do what the Ex and the separation document requires

 

All these legal and paperwork steps still to take... when will it be over ??? It is just gut wrenching each interaction... but the Ex is like an Express Freight train never looking back

 

 

Believe me, I know what you are going through - but you seem to have better odds !!!!

[TrustInYourself]

LOL, Oh I envy your interactions. You know the outcome. You know your wife is ready to move on. The only thing you have to do is cut loose and have the time of your life. You have the ability to forget her completely for your own sake and focus on your daughter. There is no gray area. No mixed signals. That's something to prize. Also, you are handling it like a champion, like a warrior. It's hard not to lose it, to become an enraged maniac, but you sound like you acted like a man and didn't give her the satisfaction.

 

I'm looking at NC. I feel so much stronger without her. So much more social, happy, adventurous, hungry for life.

[trust]

Hi TrustInYourself:

 

I know you have enough to contend with, but getting to the truth is vital in coming up with a solution. Listening to your situation from afar is difficult, especially considering I'm assuming that you are assuming that what your wife is telling you is true. I'm just trying to read between the lines. I'm not one to be quick to jump to conclusions, but I smell infidelity. After my divorce, ALL of my friends got divorced soon afterwards. Her behavior sounds exactly like the behavior of most of the women who cheated. Adulteresses are worthless in terms of relationships. I sure hope she's not one of them. What are your thoughts on that possibility? My advice would be different based on whether or not adultery was an issue.

 

@SingleDad: Almost everything you have mentioned happened to me. Almost everything you mentioned happened to my guy friends as well. I feel for your man. Do you have an attorney or did you go "uncontested?" There are some "gotchas" concerning your home equity and such. Many divorce attorneys won't give you all the information you need concerning those important details. Most of the screwups will hit you when it's too late - April 17, 2009. I've helped coach (on a daily basis) 4 close friend's divorces. I need to put it all in writing and make one massive post. I hate to see good men get burned, ESPECIALLY by cheating wives.

[TrustInYourself]

Hi TrustInYourself:

 

I know you have enough to contend with, but getting to the truth is vital in coming up with a solution. Listening to your situation from afar is difficult, especially considering I'm assuming that you are assuming that what your wife is telling you is true. I'm just trying to read between the lines. I'm not one to be quick to jump to conclusions, but I smell infidelity. After my divorce, ALL of my friends got divorced soon afterwards. Her behavior sounds exactly like the behavior of most of the women who cheated. Adulteresses are worthless in terms of relationships. I sure hope she's not one of them. What are your thoughts on that possibility? My advice would be different based on whether or not adultery was an issue.

She hasn't cheated yet. It's on her mind though. Her heart is open. She's longing for a date with another man. I know she never got that chance to meet, be romanced, fall in love, fairy tale. She thinks she missed out since I'm the only man she's ever really been with. (She kissed a few guys when she was 14, but after she met me, she was committed)

 

I'm really trying to love her, to give her space, to prove that I'm not some chump she just happened to end up with. I've been with other women. Many women. I feel like I married a special woman, but I also feel like I have to close the door if she's closing the door. I'm confused about it all really. I want to do what's right. I think now, I have to detach and force the situation to it's natural and unstoppable conclusion. There is just mass confusion. She wants to work on things one day. She just texted me she scheduled IC. She tells me sometimes she wants to work on it. Other times she says her heart is different. I'm so exhausted from trying to understand and love someone who has no clue what she wants.

[TrustInYourself]

Here's what I think.

 

She's holding on because I'm so supportive, so safe, so loving. She is attached to this side of me.

 

She's pushing away because of her hurt and anger over my past treatment of her. I ignored her. She refuses to believe I've changed or that we can work on our marriage. Her feelings and heart have moved on. She is emotionally available.

 

I've been a good, loving husband throughout this separation. She's noticed. She's confused. She tells me she feels differently two weeks ago. We sleep together, kiss, hold, spend time together. I pull back trying to understand the situation, for myself. She immediately reverts back to the way she was prior to her feeling differently two weeks ago.

 

This scares, hurts me, confuses me. I demand answers yesterday. I demand honesty. I demand action. I can't do this forever. I won't be a security blanket until she finds that man who will date her. On the other hand, it's impossible to ignore my feelings. I want to "be there" for her. I love her. I still refuse to be taken for granted though. I'm not a damn security blanket.

 

Do I pull back? I'm not scared of risking everything when so much is at stake. I can be happy without her, I just need to know that's what she really wants so I can move on.

 

Suggestions? Comments? Thoughts? Please help.

[Gatormaniac]

Here's what I think.

 

She's holding on because I'm so supportive, so safe, so loving. She is attached to this side of me.

 

She's pushing away because of her hurt and anger over my past treatment of her. I ignored her. She refuses to believe I've changed or that we can work on our marriage. Her feelings and heart have moved on. She is emotionally available.

 

I've been a good, loving husband throughout this separation. She's noticed. She's confused. She tells me she feels differently two weeks ago. We sleep together, kiss, hold, spend time together. I pull back trying to understand the situation, for myself. She immediately reverts back to the way she was prior to her feeling differently two weeks ago.

 

This scares, hurts me, confuses me. I demand answers yesterday. I demand honesty. I demand action. I can't do this forever. I won't be a security blanket until she finds that man who will date her. On the other hand, it's impossible to ignore my feelings. I want to "be there" for her. I love her. I still refuse to be taken for granted though. I'm not a damn security blanket.

 

Do I pull back? I'm not scared of risking everything when so much is at stake. I can be happy without her, I just need to know that's what she really wants so I can move on.

 

Suggestions? Comments? Thoughts? Please help.

 

If you two are sleeping together, kissing, holding, etc. you're creating a very confusing environment. You both need elbow room to sort things out. You have to understand that you cannot " be there for her " right now. You both need to seek your own level and that won't be accomplished in the environment you described. Clarity will not come until you give each other the space, and time, you so desperately need right now.

[trust]

TurstInYourself, I hear you, but I'm not convinced of that yet. I was in MAJOR denial about my wife cheating, but lucky for me, she was a bad lier. I'll give that a rest but....I still can't shrug it.

 

So she moved straight from her parent's house to yours, huh? Rookie mistake. I did the same thing. I know exactly what you were thinking too. But you realized some things, right? Since you caught her so inexperienced, she never got a chance to see what was out there... so she has no idea of just what the standard is. I would take an experienced girl any day of the week over some inexperienced girl. By the time she gets to me, she'll be sure that I'm waaaaay above the rest- she'll appreciate me more that way. Unfortunately, her selfishness will take precedence over her commitment. I hate excuses, and I am sure I know all of the things your wife is saying to you, and if she hasn't said these things, give her time. She will. I want to put a short list together and put my commentary out beside what they say, and what it actually means.

 

She says: I was too young when I got married. I didn't get to experience certain things in life. <blame is given or insinuated> -- This translates to: Yep, it's an excuse alright, and it's the only one that you can give her partial credit for. She was an adult when she married you, legally an adult that is, but emotionally she was a child. She still is a child. What's worse is she may never grow up (there's a difference between being childish and emotionally immature). Girls go thru such a huge emotional growth spurt between the ages of 19 and 26 that it shouldn't even be legal for them to get married until they're 27. I hate hearing myself say that because it implies that I regret that I married my former wife at 20. I don't, because I didn't know then what I know now. Some of them don't quite develop at the end of that period though. There's many reasons for that but there's a simple rule that applies here: most girls will always want what they cannot have, and now she wants her "youth" back.

 

She says: I need to find myself. -- This translates to: I'm so confused that I don't know what my problem is...but this cliche sounds good so I'll use it. We are always changing and developing our "self." In theory, if we are always changing, then we could at any point stop and ask, "who am I?" It never made any sense to me, to ask such a stupid question, but girls get hung up on that all day long. She'll find herself alright. She'll find herself in a perpetual cycle of dumbness, yet never realizing that it's a cycle until you and God knows how many others are victimized by it. Your job is to cut your losses and get with the one percent of the female population who actually has a good head on her shoulders. (If you are female and are reading this, out of respect lets just assume you are in that one percent of the female population)

 

She says: I fell out of love. -- This translates to: She doesn't know what love is. She subscribes to the Western ideology that love is just a feeling, and when the feeling gone, so is she. Heck, you may not even know what love is. You may both think you know and still your incorrect definitions won't even match. In any case, that relationship was doomed from the start.

 

She says: You changed. --This translates to: I'm having a hard time making legitimate excuses so I'll add this one in for confusion's sake. Of course you changed. It's called growth. This is also the cousin of "the newness wore off" or "the honeymoon is over." Don't go chasing this argument, you'd be chasing your tail. She's building a case and it's called craziness. Since it has no rationale at it's base, it will lead you straight to nowhere. This is right where she intends to leave you.

 

Everyone should have to do a written exercise before they get married. The two should have to write a 20 page essay on each topic: Love, Happiness, Commitment, and Respect. Compare essays, and if you are not both on the same page, DON'T GET MARRIED. Plumbers and electricians have to do more to get their licenses than a married couple to get theirs. In some states, you don't even need a blood test. How does this make sense? How sad that we put our marriages on auto-pilot, never believing or willing to do the WORK that is needed to keep it together. The only time we are willing to do the work is after the damage is done, and by then, we realize it's too little too late.

 

Did I just go on a rant? Sorry. Just burns me up that you guys are going thru this crap. Hope I helped...if not.. I'll try harder.

[trust]

TurstInYourself:

 

Just read your last post. You really need to run out and get this book: "Love Must Be Tough. New hope for marriages in crisis" by Dr. James Dobson. It will help you immensely. By the time I got a hold of it, my 30-day no fault divorce was signed sealed and delivered. There may be hope for you but you've got to do all the right things. Currently, you are doing many of the wrong things. But you definitely sound like a guy who's open for change. Get it and read it today. Write notes in it, and even give it to her when you're done. Does she like to read?

[TrustInYourself]

Thanks for the responses. I'm feeling like I've got to start over again. I was doing so damn well too.

 

Gator, I feel like I can make things better. I go and stay with her and I do the right things and she opens up and she feels differently. I stay away and she's on autopilot for what feels like a divorce. It's so very hard to just give her complete space and live my life. I started doing it and she starts to come around and I start wanting more commitment to just a plan or a concept of working it out and she says she can't do that.

 

trust, I know her 100%. She's just too busy. She's just not doing it at this time, but she admits that if an attractive man started talking to her, she would have an affair. Her heart is open to others. So emotionally, she is ready and willing to have an affair.

 

I still don't know what to do. I just have to trust what my heart is telling me. Trust in myself. It's telling me to give her complete space. It's telling me to stop pushing. I'm better than that. I shouldn't need to push a woman to love me. I'm a damn decent guy, lol. I look good. I'm funny. I smell good. I have good hygiene. I am slightly intelligent, computer software programmer for the military. I got some good things going for me.

 

So why do I feel so scared to let go? Why do I want to go through hell for my wife when she's thrown in the towel. Someone who wanted a separation tell me why it's too little too late. I know I was a jerk for a long time. I didn't realize marriage took work. I understand now, but it's too late.

[trust]

TrustInYourself:

 

There's no simple solution to your situation. You've got to realize two things. 1. that you need work, and 2. you've got to do that work. Do that work with or without her. Start now.

 

I agree with you. If you are a decent guy, you shouldn't have to "push" a woman...but this girl is your wife. Certain strategies apply.

 

You feel scared because you love her. But that fear is what's going to get you into trouble. Any behavior that shows a lack of confidence won't attract her to you. There's a fine line between caring, and a fear for loss. Your wife has lost interest in you. When you said, "I do", you signed up for the "interest game." Since she was so young your "interest game" is a full time job and you've got to play that game for the rest of your married life. Had she been a little further along in her emotional development, you'd be playing that game as a part time job at the least.

 

The separation thing is tough. She wants her space, but is she saying that she may/would/is willing to have an affair with another man while she's in that "space?" I believe this is what you are telling me. That's exactly what my wife was telling me. There was NO WAY I would ever tolerate that level of disrespect from her. It's when she told me that that I told her she needed to file for divorce. Nowhere in our vows did we agree that we were going to have sex with other people while we were married to each other... just to see if we still had feelings or whatever the bull**** reason she gives. I don't regret telling her that. I have a thing called self respect. No self respecting man will sit by idle, while his wife is having sex with other people, just to see if things will work out. Basically, you are just someone she is using until she finds something better. If she can't...then oh well... guess she'll settle for you.... *for now.* Do you really want to be that guy? I'm not suggesting you get angry and blow up at her. I'm not suggesting that you leave her. Give her room, but do it right. But if she cheats, CUT HER LOOSE.

 

If, *and only if*, she has not cheated on you, I'm pleading with you to read that book I mentioned. It says almost exactly what most folks are saying to you, but in great detail. You need to pull back. But that book tells you exactly how to do it.

[TrustInYourself]

TrustInYourself:

 

There's no simple solution to your situation. You've got to realize two things. 1. that you need work, and 2. you've got to do that work. Do that work with or without her. Start now.

 

I agree with you. If you are a decent guy, you shouldn't have to "push" a woman...but this girl is your wife. Certain strategies apply.

 

You feel scared because you love her. But that fear is what's going to get you into trouble. Any behavior that shows a lack of confidence won't attract her to you. There's a fine line between caring, and a fear for loss. Your wife has lost interest in you. When you said, "I do", you signed up for the "interest game." Since she was so young your "interest game" is a full time job and you've got to play that game for the rest of your married life. Had she been a little further along in her emotional development, you'd be playing that game as a part time job at the least.

 

The separation thing is tough. She wants her space, but is she saying that she may/would/is willing to have an affair with another man while she's in that "space?" I believe this is what you are telling me. That's exactly what my wife was telling me. There was NO WAY I would ever tolerate that level of disrespect from her. It's when she told me that that I told her she needed to file for divorce. Nowhere in our vows did we agree that we were going to have sex with other people while we were married to each other... just to see if we still had feelings or whatever the bull**** reason she gives. I don't regret telling her that. I have a thing called self respect. No self respecting man will sit by idle, while his wife is having sex with other people, just to see if things will work out. Basically, you are just someone she is using until she finds something better. If she can't...then oh well... guess she'll settle for you.... *for now.* Do you really want to be that guy? I'm not suggesting you get angry and blow up at her. I'm not suggesting that you leave her. Give her room, but do it right. But if she cheats, CUT HER LOOSE.

 

If, *and only if*, she has not cheated on you, I'm pleading with you to read that book I mentioned. It says almost exactly what most folks are saying to you, but in great detail. You need to pull back. But that book tells you exactly how to do it.

 

I've been working on myself since this started, trust. I have used my emotions as a catalyst towards being a better person. I'm proud of my behavior so far. I've been strong for our marriage. My wife notices my changes and remarks frequently, why couldn't this happen sooner. I know why, I understand as a male my reaction to problems, I understand cognitive behavior analysis and why men change and love the way we do. All of that knowledge doesn't change the facts of the situation.

 

I can withdraw with confidence. I've done it before. See here is the problem. I know I'm doing the right things, with some minor misteps (I'm not perfect). I know she is conflicted and confused. Now I want to help her reach a conclusion. Whether it's with me or not with me. The only answer is for me to give her time and space to reach that conclusion on her own. I know she's made conclusions when things were bad with us. I have a good feeling that she will choose to end it. I just have that feeling knowing what she's told me. Then what? Do I file for divorce? When she tells me she thinks it's over, do I take action? I think so. I'm ready for it. The only thing that freaks me out a bit now, is if she says, let's work on it. We are so close to the edge of ending it, the thought of trying to make it work is just so scary. I'm willing, but damn.

[TrustInYourself]

Trolling the forums all day. I'm trying not to call her. I want to talk about the same emotional crap that wears her down every time we talk about "us".

[trust]

I'm completely confused by your last post. Soooo.... you are saying that you've known the whole time you were married what you should do to keep your marriage together but you chose not to do it? Or did you just figure it all out and are now doing the right things?

 

Are you saying that you know what to do in this particular situation with her and now you are doing all the right things?

 

You said "The only answer is for me to give her time and space to reach that conclusion on her own.".... Are you just venting or do you have all the answers you need now? Help me understand.

 

Your situation is complicated and very delicate at this point.

 

Do you want to stay married to her or do you want to be divorced?

 

Option 1. I want to stay married: Then, do you think you have it all figured out and will just let her have her space, and that's all that you think you need to do?

 

Option 2. I want to get divorced:

 

a.) Do you believe in God? No? Go on to part 'b.' Yes? You do know your marriage was two unions, correct? A civil union and a spiritual union. Civil unions you can break for any reason, even no reason. But what grounds are you divorcing on the spiritual union?

 

b.) Don't believe in God? What are you waiting for? Anything goes.

 

As for what she wants, she doesn't know, right? That's out of your circle of influence. Do what you can based on what you want, how seriously you took your vows, and what you believe in.

[TrustInYourself]

I was completely clueless in my marriage. I was blissfully ignorant and clueless about what a real marriage took. I was acting like an idiot, basically. It took her leaving for me to realize my mistakes. I woke up quickly, made the appropriate changes, still making those changes. I want to grow from the situation.

 

My goal is to keep my marriage. I've taken steps to control my emotions, to be patient, loving, understanding.

 

Typically, my posts are massive episodes of me venting. I do not communicate the way I do here, with my wife. Thankfully, lol.

 

I'm not divorcing. We're separated at the moment. I've been pushing my wife to make a decision. I know where that will lead. Divorce.

 

I believe in God. I have a personal relationship with God. I wouldn't say I am religious or church going though.

 

I have taken my vows very seriously. However, now when I'm hurt and women flirt with me, I flirt back. I'm scared of being so openly flirty with other women and the path it leads to, but on the other hand I feel good. I think that's my self worth being validated by female attention, lol.

 

I texted her last night. I tried to avoid it. I couldn't stop myself.

 

I simply texted, "I only want your happiness and our daughter's happiness. I will stop pushing. Night."

 

I ****ed up on Monday when I got down here for my seminar. I called her and we talked and she was honest and talked about how she wanted to date other men. That set me off and I demanded she make up her mind, I demanded a divorce if that's what she wants (6 months to go through here in California), I demanded she take IC, I demanded she go on some dates and get it out of her system. I wasn't crazy angry, I was just distraught and emotional. I told her before we hung up that I was being emotional. I told her I'm not sure if I mean this. We haven't spoke since, but her father was in town and I immediately asked to talk to him before we hung up. That was wrong of me I know, but I needed to talk to someone calm and rational who understood my point of view. She transferred the phone over to her dad with the comment, "Are you serious.."

 

Yeah...I felt better after talking to her father, but I know my wife was affected by that. We haven't spoken since. I'm trying to do NC to give her time to think, but I'm scared with us talking last and me being somewhat/slightly demanding, emotional, needy, and angry I am just reinforcing this image of me being a jerk. Hence, why I felt like I had to text her.

 

Ugh. I need to just chill out, lol.

[SingleDad]

TrustInYourself - how similar our situation is !!! It is so difficult to handle... I think I will start a new thread on this

[trust]

TustInYourself and SingleDad:

 

The more you hear the stories of others, the more you will see that it's almost carbon copy. I was exactly where you are TrustInYourself. You will be on an emotional rollercoaster for quite a while. This is why folks will advise you to do No Contact. No contact means - no IM, no phone calls, no smoke signals, no talking to her relatives/friends/pastor. I called my ex during the whole mess and was nice one day, mean the next. Nice one day, mean the next... I was mean as the denial to her cheating was starting to wear off. The anger was starting to set in. Your wife may not be cheating but what you are going through is all the same - a huge loss and a ripping apart of your soul.

 

As a previous poster on a different thread put it (better than I have explained), all you are doing is giving her justification for leaving. Remain respectful. You can only work with the willing. And if she's not willing - there's nothing you can do.

 

Also wanted to note that...you are doing a great job talking about how you feel. And you've admitted some things that I'm surprised to hear you admit. Hang in there. This forum is very healthy for you. I would have been here years ago if I had known about the good people here on this site. Instead, I dumped all of this on my 3 close married friends. All of their wives cheated and divorced them shortly thereafter - like it was some sort of freaking curse or something.

[TrustInYourself]

Hah, why thanks for the kind words. I still have to see my wife on Friday to pick up the daughter. I want to apologize to her for blowing up. I respect the fact that she feels she can be honest with me, I want to encourage that, but damn, I do not want to hear about how she wants to date other men.

 

I realized today, I was justified for getting angry. Oh yeah, that feels good knowing that. It took 3 days of pure misery and no contact for me to come to that conclusion.-

[TrustInYourself]

I'm tempted to the call the wife. Not going to.

 

I'm lonely. I go out and I try and be social, yet there's still pain there in my heart. It's hard to pretend to be happy at times. I feel sad. Anyone up who wants to chat?

 

On a side note, I shouldn't have mentioned that some girl wanted my nuts last weekend. Why did I volunteer that information? Oh I know, cause I'm retarded.

[Gunny376]

I'm tempted to the call the wife. Not going to.

 

I'm lonely. I go out and I try and be social, yet there's still pain there in my heart. It's hard to pretend to be happy at times. I feel sad. Anyone up who wants to chat?

 

On a side note, I shouldn't have mentioned that some girl wanted my nuts last weekend. Why did I volunteer that information? Oh I know, cause I'm retarded.

 

No, because your human and its nice to be wanted after being rejected you Doult!

 

Your going through tha' s***! right now!

 

So back off, and cut yourself some slack! Quit beating yourself up!

 

Knowing what you know now could you have been a better Father/Husband than you are today? You bet!

 

You did the best with what you had at the time! You gave all you had at the time!

 

Could you do better today? You can bet the bank on it! But you gave all you had at the time! So quit beating yourself up!