Woggle Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 I don't consider it to be hate but more like honest commentary on gender relations. The things that most men feel but are afraid to say.
Author Gwyneth Posted June 9, 2008 Author Posted June 9, 2008 I agree that Michelle's reason for convincing people not to vote for Hillary is pretty pathetic (to whoever also agreed, I can't remember who right now). There are many other good and valid reasons why someone shouldn't vote for Hillary--although I'm not saying I agree with them, I do think Michelle could have come up with a better insult. We don't know what goes on in the Clinton household or why they are still married. Many spouses remain in a marriage after adultry. Why? That's something you'd have to ask each BS--not me or Michelle Obama. I always thought Hillary stayed with Bill for political reasons. And that's their choice and it's for no one to say that's wrong, because everyone is allowed to make their own decisions in their marriage. Whether Bill is charming or not is irrelevant. Even the most uncharming man or woman can have a mistress / mister. Looks aren't always everything. And in this case, I think Monica was more interested in promotions than Bill's "charming" looks. Then again, there are the group of people--me included--who think Bill was set-up. Well, that's a whole nother story for a whole nother thread. But Michelle's comparison is way off base, as someone pointed out about the thongs and granny pants. You can't compare peaches to pears.
silktricks Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 Hillary chose to do nothing about her serial cheating husband, that's the part that I consider running her household dysfunctionally. What kind of a role model was Hillary for her daughter by teaching her to tolerate such disrespectful treatment from her spouse? The Clinton's facade of a marriage doesn't present the kind of relationship that anybody should stay in. I view Michelle Obama's comments as having to do more with the fact that Hillary chooses to stay in an unhealthy, emotionally abusive marriage rather than divorcing her serial cheating husband and IMO Hillary only does it because of her political aspirations which seems kind of nuts, if you ask me. NG, you have absolutely no idea of what their marriage is or is not. You assume it's a facade because - what - people who are not IN the marriage have made assumptions. Those assumptions have been repeated so many times that now it's true??? You don't know that Hillary did or did not do about the problems with her husband, you don't know if it's an unhealthy emotionally abusive marriage and you also don't know if it's a facade. Maybe it is all of those things, but maybe it's none of them. Maybe they worked out their problems and have rekindled what they first had, maybe they haven't. But one thing is for sure... neither you nor anyone else has any right to judge their marriage. No one but Mr. and Mrs. Clinton are in that particular marriage. What Michelle O. had to say was simply rude, but she's certainly been rude on more than one occasion and on more than one subject.
nittygritty Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 NG, you have absolutely no idea of what their marriage is or is not. You assume it's a facade because - what - people who are not IN the marriage have made assumptions. Those assumptions have been repeated so many times that now it's true??? You don't know that Hillary did or did not do about the problems with her husband, you don't know if it's an unhealthy emotionally abusive marriage and you also don't know if it's a facade. Maybe it is all of those things, but maybe it's none of them. Maybe they worked out their problems and have rekindled what they first had, maybe they haven't. But one thing is for sure... neither you nor anyone else has any right to judge their marriage. No one but Mr. and Mrs. Clinton are in that particular marriage. What Michelle O. had to say was simply rude, but she's certainly been rude on more than one occasion and on more than one subject. I have somewhat of an idea simply based on the fact that Bill Clinton was impeached for lieing about having a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky that literally took place in the White house and Hillary stayed married to him. http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=ClfpG2-1Bv4
twice_shy Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 I really don't think it's any of our business if the president cheats or the president's spouse cheats. If they cheat, that makes them a bad husband/wife/person. Not a bad president. For her to say that is very shallow and how do we know she hasn't cheated on him? I agree. However, when a president cheats in the Oval Office, then it is very much our business. We pay this man to do a job. When he is in the oval office, he/she conducts themselves accordingly. If he wanted to go get his wee willy winky wet in a hotel somewhere, that is his business. If I had sex with someone in my office, you bet if caught, I'd be fired toot sweet.
silktricks Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 I have somewhat of an idea simply based on the fact that Bill Clinton was impeached for lieing about having a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky that literally took place in the White house and Hillary stayed married to him. So what? That doesn't mean jack about their marriage since then. A lot of people forgive their cheating spouses. There are all kinds of reasons that people work out their marriages. To assume that Hillary did it for political reasons is just that - an assumption. And a pretty poor assumption, too. Just see how much it helped her in your attitude towards her :lmao:.
nittygritty Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 So what? That doesn't mean jack about their marriage since then. A lot of people forgive their cheating spouses. There are all kinds of reasons that people work out their marriages. To assume that Hillary did it for political reasons is just that - an assumption. And a pretty poor assumption, too. Just see how much it helped her in your attitude towards her :lmao:. If Bill had only cheated on her with one other woman, I might understand but he's had many documented affairs including ones that filed sexual harrassment lawsuits against him. The reasons why she stays married to him don't really matter, it's the fact that she stays married to him that does. What kind of person would tolerate that? What kind of mother would role model that kind of marriage for her daughter? Do you think Chelsea was unaware of all that has been reported about all of her father's affairs? Hillary should have taught her daughter that it's unacceptable for a husband to repeatedly have sex with other women than his wife and to teach that she should have divorced him at least by the third other woman, now c'mon.
Author Gwyneth Posted June 9, 2008 Author Posted June 9, 2008 NG, you have absolutely no idea of what their marriage is or is not. You assume it's a facade because - what - people who are not IN the marriage have made assumptions. Those assumptions have been repeated so many times that now it's true??? You don't know that Hillary did or did not do about the problems with her husband, you don't know if it's an unhealthy emotionally abusive marriage and you also don't know if it's a facade. Maybe it is all of those things, but maybe it's none of them. Maybe they worked out their problems and have rekindled what they first had, maybe they haven't. But one thing is for sure... neither you nor anyone else has any right to judge their marriage. No one but Mr. and Mrs. Clinton are in that particular marriage. What Michelle O. had to say was simply rude, but she's certainly been rude on more than one occasion and on more than one subject. DOUBLE thumbs up to you, silktricks
serial muse Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 I'm an Obama supporter, and lord knows I'm not crazy about Hillary as a person. But this was a really catty, nasty thing to say and it's going to come back to haunt Michelle Obama. I've been saying for a while now that the various political machines now hunting frantically for new dirt on Obama aren't going to find it on him. Michelle is the weak link, because she's the hotheaded one. And this is a case in point.
marlena Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 But this was a really catty, nasty thing to say and it's going to come back to haunt Michelle Obama. I woman in her position should not have resorted to such a mean and snide remark. It was below the belt. She is a public figure and as such should have purported herself with dignity and class. It was most decidedly a BIG faux pas.
nittygritty Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 A big part of the Clinton administration's legacy was President Clinton's impeachment. It was an embarrassment for the U.S. to have a President having sex scandals take place in the White House. A President whose having sexual harrassment lawsuits filed against him wasn't a very good role model for our country. Neither was having a First Lady whose chose to stay married to him, no matter how much he has publicly humiliated her. There have been subsequent reports about Bill Clinton having affairs. Most voters probably would have voted against having an impeached president living in the White House again, IMO.
Author Gwyneth Posted June 9, 2008 Author Posted June 9, 2008 A big part of the Clinton administration's legacy was President Clinton's impeachment. It was an embarrassment for the U.S. to have a President having sex scandals take place in the White House. A President whose having sexual harrassment lawsuits filed against him wasn't a very good role model for our country. Neither was having a First Lady whose chose to stay married to him, no matter how much he has publicly humiliated her. There have been subsequent reports about Bill Clinton having affairs. Most voters probably would have voted against having an impeached president living in the White House again, IMO. While this may be very true, it still is very wrong for Michelle Obama to have said such things--especially when her husband needs all the female supporters he can grab. Women remember these kinds of things--and you're all right when you say "it will come back to haunt her [Michelle]."
marlena Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 A President whose having sexual harrassment lawsuits filed against him wasn't a very good role model for our country. Neither was having a First Lady whose chose to stay married to him, no matter how much he has publicly humiliated her. I totally agree. What was even more humiliating is when he publicly apologized to the American nation for his indiscretions! How ludicrously infantile! Hillary's adamantly hanging onto a parody of a marraige was even more ludicrous. I think that had she divorced him, she would have earned more respect from the people. It was blatantly obvious that she didn't proceed with a divorce because of her own political agenda. Still, this does not justify MO's nasty remark. It reflected badly on her own self and not on Hillary.
nittygritty Posted June 9, 2008 Posted June 9, 2008 I totally agree. What was even more humiliating is when he publicly apologized to the American nation for his indiscretions! How ludicrously infantile! Hillary's adamantly hanging onto a parody of a marraige was even more ludicrous. I think that had she divorced him, she would have earned more respect from the people. It was blatantly obvious that she didn't proceed with a divorce because of her own political agenda. Still, this does not justify MO's nasty remark. It reflected badly on her own self and not on Hillary. I honestly think Hillary would have had a better chance if she had divorced Bill. Simply because I think it would have been more understandable in her situation, than not. Michelle Obama has had much worse mud being slung at her and her husband throughout all of this. I really didn't take her remark as being a specific slam to try to blame betrayed spouses for their husband's cheating on them. I took it as more of a slam to Hillary for staying married to Bill and them trying to return to the White House. It sounded like she was just reminding the audience of what previously went on.
oasis Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 I don't really know either of you or all of your circumstances, so I can't really comment on who was more rational. What I've seen, though, is that you often post about how horrible women are in general. When you generalize a large group of people based on your negative experiences with a couple of people, it comes across as bieng predjudice and hateful. Look, probably most of us here on LS have had bad experiences with the opposite sex (or same sex, for those in same sex relationships), but we shouldn't take out our hate, anger, or whatever on everone else for that. I am in total agreement. I have also noticed the pattern. Kudos to you for zeroing on the anger and bitterness, which always shows a basic disatisfaction with one's life.
oasis Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 A big part of the Clinton administration's legacy was President Clinton's impeachment. It was an embarrassment for the U.S. to have a President having sex scandals take place in the White House. A President whose having sexual harrassment lawsuits filed against him wasn't a very good role model for our country. Neither was having a First Lady whose chose to stay married to him, no matter how much he has publicly humiliated her. There have been subsequent reports about Bill Clinton having affairs. Most voters probably would have voted against having an impeached president living in the White House again, IMO. This is yesterday's news and totally off topic.
oasis Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 I honestly think Hillary would have had a better chance if she had divorced Bill. Simply because I think it would have been more understandable in her situation, than not. Michelle Obama has had much worse mud being slung at her and her husband throughout all of this. I really didn't take her remark as being a specific slam to try to blame betrayed spouses for their husband's cheating on them. I took it as more of a slam to Hillary for staying married to Bill and them trying to return to the White House. It sounded like she was just reminding the audience of what previously went on. Not your call to make. Only she can make that decision.
Author Gwyneth Posted June 10, 2008 Author Posted June 10, 2008 Not your call to make. Only she can make that decision. I know, right? I personally think Michelle Obama should watch what she says because the universe has a funny way of getting you back for things you say and do...
burning 4 revenge Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 I know, right? I personally think Michelle Obama should watch what she says because the universe has a funny way of getting you back for things you say and do...I heard a rumor on a late night radio show in Chicago about something she said at Trinity United and supposedly theres a tape of it somewhere, but I shouldnt spread rumors
twice_shy Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 I woman in her position should not have resorted to such a mean and snide remark. It was below the belt. She is a public figure and as such should have purported herself with dignity and class. She can't purport herself with dignity and class because she has none.
twice_shy Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 I totally agree. What was even more humiliating is when he publicly apologized to the American nation for his indiscretions! How ludicrously infantile! It wasn't so much the apology. It was his finger wagging at the camera when he told the American people, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman....Ms. Lewinsky" Then come back and say, "Indeed I did have a relationship with Ms. Lewinsky that was not appropriate", still not admitting anything. So he apologized for nothing is what he wanted people to believe. He never did tell the truth. But as I said before, do I care, or is it the peoples' right to know what he does on his own time? No. But it was in the Oval Office, it was on our time to do his job for which we pay him. I think it can now be renamed the Oral Orifice.
serial muse Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 I heard a rumor on a late night radio show in Chicago about something she said at Trinity United and supposedly theres a tape of it somewhere, but I shouldnt spread rumors I know what you're talking about, but consider the source. This is along the same lines as "Barack is Muslim." No basis in fact, but preying on people's fears and prejudices. Where are these mysterious tapes, I wonder?
nittygritty Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 Only for some U.S. citizens. Most of the people I know where too busy trying to take care of our own families to put that much concern into their marriage. Fortunately, information about President Clinton and the First Lady is always going to be available. Kenneth Starr's report citing 11 potential impeachable offenses against President Clinton was published on September 11, 1998 with excerpts appearing in all major daily newspapers. As much news coverage as there was back then on President Clinton's sex scandals, I'm surprised they were able to get away from it.
Author Gwyneth Posted June 10, 2008 Author Posted June 10, 2008 It wasn't so much the apology. It was his finger wagging at the camera when he told the American people, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman....Ms. Lewinsky" Then come back and say, "Indeed I did have a relationship with Ms. Lewinsky that was not appropriate", still not admitting anything. So he apologized for nothing is what he wanted people to believe. He never did tell the truth. But as I said before, do I care, or is it the peoples' right to know what he does on his own time? No. But it was in the Oval Office, it was on our time to do his job for which we pay him. I think it can now be renamed the Oral Orifice. Well, I go back and forth on this one. I think what he does on his time is his business. But the American's are paying him to be in that office doing real work--not sexual work. Still, I don't think it's anyone's business the extent and details of what went on. All we needed to know is that inappropriate business was being taken care of in there non-work related. What actually happened I could have done without ever hearing (of course I was like 12 or something when that happened).
twice_shy Posted June 11, 2008 Posted June 11, 2008 Well, I go back and forth on this one. I think what he does on his time is his business. But the American's are paying him to be in that office doing real work--not sexual work. Still, I don't think it's anyone's business the extent and details of what went on. All we needed to know is that inappropriate business was being taken care of in there non-work related. What actually happened I could have done without ever hearing (of course I was like 12 or something when that happened). And the common man would be fired for inappropriate conduct in our office at work.
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