v33 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Just getting back into dating after a long term relationship ended and I have been spending a lot of time of boards like this and various others reading up on relationships and dating. I don't think I really need the internet to tell me how to behave with women, I've never had a problem getting a girlfriend, but I find the various perspectives interesting. Lately I have been coming across ebooks and forums on dating and "seduction" as well as the "No More Mr Nice Guy" kind of stuff. For those who aren't familiar with the material it basically seems like a program to come across as a guy that doesn't really care for women even if he likes them, rules about what to say and how often to see them to keep them interested etc. Don't be too sensitive or understanding.... it goes on. Is this just all a bunch of crap? Are you doomed to a life alone if you do express your interest in a woman or call her back the same day she calls you? Or do you have to play all these Alpha Man games to get a woman? What happens if you meet a woman by these methods and actually fall in love and get married? Do you keep "playing by the rules" then and not return your wife's call for days or let her know you like her "too much"? I've been out on a few dates, and all have gone well. I don't think I am playing any games with these women and they seem to like me just fine. Granted I am not a desperate or clingy guy, but if I like a girl I am certainly going to let her know, especially if she is interested in me too. Can't you just be yourself anymore?
Jilly Bean Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 If a woman is insecure or unhealthy, she will very much fall for these techniques. If she has an intact esteem, then the games and mistreatment won't work. Remember the bait you use, is what you will attract...
Scottdmw Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 If your problem is you are _too_ needy, too dependent on women for a feeling of self-worth or fun in your life, then the advice to care less is exactly what you need. Likewise, if you try too hard on the sensitivity, if you basically agree too much with a woman or remold your opinions to match hers in hopes of making a favorable impression, then the advice to be less sensitive is good. If you never approach women or make any sexual overture then that part of the "seduction" advice might be useful to you. I do think those materials take things too far many times, and am unconvinced by many of their claims. But, for certain common problems men these days have, ie "nice guys", they may provide some value.
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Be yourself. It sounds like it's working. If I really like a guy, I want to hear that he likes me too, and I want him to call me.
tanbark813 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Anything related to inner game or improving your confidence, self-respect, and self-worth will be most effective, IMO.
Balthazar Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Unfortunately, dating is very rarely a completely up-front, honest interaction between two people. In a perfect world, none of the material you mention would be needed, but then again without spices, food tastes bland , doesn't it? I recommend using such material selectively. If properly filtered, it is useful. CHeers,
fishtaco Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 These games help to a certain degree. Many women even on this board will post things like if a guy calls the same night he got her number, he'll appear too eager and she will lose interest... etc. So there IS a baseline of games that need to be played. But go overboard with the games then you'll end up in the area where Jilly Bean was talking about. Whatever bait you have will get whatever type of women that fall for that bait. Which is perfectly fine, because different people have different goals. There isn't one method or one approach, since each approach will only work on a subset of women. Have a few approaches, more the better, and select which one you use based on the feedback you get from the woman. At very least you should have two -- game, and no game. If a woman isn't playing any games with you and is just being straight forward (rare, but they do exist), then drop your games too (if you want to). Remember a lot of the times these games/techniques or whatever are for self protection as well. There are a lot of evil people out there.
daphne Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 If you want an unhealthy crazy girl, choose the mega alpha route and treat her like dirt. If you want a good one who respects herself, you're going to have to practice holding back. Especially in the beginning. I hate playing games, but it does seem to be a defense mechanism even in the best of circumstances. You can treat a girl well, while remaining a little bit of a challenge. That means don't call her right away, but don't wait a week. Don't call her all of the time. Let her miss you and look forward to hearing from you. Being too aloof doesn't work with this kind of girl. Just try to stay balanced, confident and don't be a yes man. Go with the flow, and hold back a part of yourself in case she starts testing you.
SpikeyChick Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 That material is mainly for PUAs and players. Most of it is manipulative and downright devious. it is sort of the male equilvalent of " The Rules" for women. Your SOP all depends on what you want from women . ONS, casual dating, FWBs or a genuine LTR. However you are probably on the wrong forum here to get credible replies. Most women here are NOt good at relationships - read their posts. YOu would be better off going to one of those men's sites and ask them what works for them. TRy Askmen.com to start off.
D-Lish Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 If I like a guy- he can call the next day and I will be fine with it. If I am not interested- It won't matter either way if or when he calls. There is such a thing as over doing it if someone is on the fence about you. I've liked someone and been turned off because they felt the need to text, call and msn me 15 times a day... I had a great first date with someone, and 20 minutes after he left he text me to say "I can't stop thinking about you"... I liked him- so that immediate text endeared me to him more.
Author v33 Posted June 4, 2008 Author Posted June 4, 2008 Thanks for the comments. I figured most of that advice was to be taken with a grain of salt, but I can understand that one shouldn't appear overly needy or clingy at first for either sex. The girl I was out with this week wasn't terribly shy and made it clear that she was interested so I figure I can reciprocate my interest a little more openly than I usually would, but we've just met so I'm in no hurry. I must admit that I wouldn't mind chatting with her a bit on the phone as I am out of town till the end of the week but I prefer our chemistry face to face and she did say she will call when I get back on Friday so I will wait. She did actually send me an email late on Sunday morning just after we had met a few hours before, which I found cute and would indicate that I could probably get away with a little more contact with her and not appear to be desperate... See, all this stuff gets me over thinking things way too much. Haha, why are humans so complicated?
Dark-N-Romantic Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 We as a species are foolish, stupid, and ignorant. It seems like we more and more turning our backs on the way of old and we don't seem to see the correlation between the astonishing numbers of studies like the number of divorces, relationship problems, and the like with the changing of our ways. More and more women are cheating on their lovers and husbands (it is just like a 4% difference from last I have seen). The number of men seeking marriage based relationships are rising and the women who just want to have fun overshadowing that. We are seeing more and more women as abusers, molesters, rapists, and foul creatures that once use to be consider the nature of man. We now live in a world where having the upper hand is a must in a relationship in order not to be caught off guard. Many play these games of masquerade for years and when the foundation is fully set the facade is dropped and the partner is left to once again relearn who they are with. Sometimes this facades are done because it is a must just for a person to love us or in order to get our pawns to live in the world we have come to create. Our instinct of trust is so fragile that too many let its shattering determine how everyone else could be or is. Now lets add to that all the mixed opinions given by "experts" that we listen to, especially those who are publicly paraded before us as "the authority" on the subject. "Girl's don't pay for dates.", "If he loves you he would put down the toilet seat.", "Never tell her or him what you are feeling all the time, they don't want to know.", "If you are not opening up, you are doomed to fail in your relationship." With all this crap out there, how can anyone with an honest question, seeking a workable answer, who relationship is in real danger determine what to do? And who is right? What works? What doesn't work? In short, love is about games and complexities is because we put them there. Is the alpha male games b.s.? No, because there are women out there who want these games played on them, and unless you are doing this they won't believe you love them. Then, there are men and women who what who you are right off the back so they can find out if they can work with you. If they can love the parts of you that is unlovable when the darkest times fall upon you two. This is the way I am. I don't need a woman who is all about fluffing herself up as if she were an actress trying to get a part, and then when she takes off the makeup and her real personality comes out, she is nothing what I thought she was. DNR How to love and fix our relationships is nothing we can't do. The experts only are here because we are too lazy to do what is instinctive to us.
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